Black Diamond from Screen Innovations? - Page 60

Totally Agree...
You need to demo anything before buying it.
I remember a guy who was from out of state
and expressed intrest in an Epson 8350...
I told him to go to his local dealer and get a demo,
when he was there he saw a demo of an
8350,8700 and 9700
On SI and Stewart screens...

He ended up going with the projector and screen that he thought looked best
and he also supported his local dealer and gave him his buisness...

You really need to demo this stuff in person...

i've seen several demo'd.

minus the pricetag... i'm a huge fan of contrast blackscreens. but i also think we can give folks some real world strenghs and limitations beyond the carefully selected SI videos.

again, a 200 watts of incandescent light in a room doesn't come close to 1/10th of daylight required to light up a 25'x55' room with 18' ceilings.

try this on for size:
get a lamp stand and place a 100 watt bulb uncovered 30 inches in the front center of your screen.. at screen level.

any takers.

Just Go to the right HT Dealer who is
a HT Expert and not a store employee who has no training
and would rather sell you a flat panel...lol

i'm not into flat panels.

beyond 42"... all i can zero in on is the pixelation. and it kills the whole experience for me.

yes,
i'm quite aware that two little 40 watt halogens directly and localized spotlighted as you have on the windows screenshot would not come close to the 100 watt uncovered bulb scenario that i've asked to be presented.

i'm aware what you have presented is something no white screen can do.

but if you're gonna run from a simple presentation to show that one scenerio (yours of 200 halogen watts) equals the 100watt scenerio that i have posed...

...then you aren't winning the BD any favors.

----

honestly the goal is not show that it's perfect in such situations... but that it faulters less.

If you really want to see this I will post pictures (I just took them), although It probably won't help you decide whether you want to buy the screen. Obviously it will look bad. How could it look otherwise on any screen?

Judging by the looks of your room, the pictures I have already posted with light coming from a side window would be more helpful.

karlsch;

sure, i'd like to see them. but do me this one favor, please try to take and post the better pics you have of this situation. and if you could, include a screenshot with a sport and an animation as well.

hopefully you understand, i am a fan of blackscreens and i'm hoping others will get a more balanced viewpoint.

i'd also like to know what you are working with....

pj. what mode is it in. hours used. screen size. projected distance. room dimensions and decor.

Well, considering that the "Eyeball" shields are "Aftermarket" add ons, and secured by only springy wires that grab the inside of the Can enclosure, and that it took quite a bit of work to get the assemblies to sit flush against the ceiling.....AND I'd need to bring back my Ladder.....I'd say no.

That, and the fact that the Cans are "intended" to illuminated the front seating, which they do to a great extent.

The side Sconces are actually the lights that can most affect the screen, as also can their reflection from off the red carpeted floor.

I gotta point out that the on-screen colors in your ambient light shots are not looking correct by any means, and there appears to be areas where detail is blown out.

But more importantly, note how ALL my shots are taken at a distance. Taking shots from such a close proximity limits the Camera's metering to the predominate light source. I'm fairly certain that if you do not take them so close in, or do not use zoom to frame those shots, things are going to look a LOT different.

But go ahead..., prove me in error. No issues there because that is what we all all looking for. Accurate and illustrative results.

The upcoming shots of the Fireplace installation will more closely match what your asking for.

Karlsch is a big anti-BD guy dude. His daylight picture on his BD is UGLY - far worse than any 100W bulb. It's the poster child for "any screen would look bad" and my point of light control is important regardless of screen choice (so if you're controlling the light anyway you may as well get a screen suited to a light controlled environment...)

I’m not an anti-BD guy, I object to way the BD is promoted.

Note that all of the pictures I have posted are intended to show only one thing - how the screen deals with light coming from a side window.

I have a non-dedicated viewing room with a single source of troublesome ambient light - a side window - probably a common light source in any non-dedicated viewing room.

In my case the window had blinds that I always closed with my old HCCV screen. I assumed that I would do the same with a new screen. I never intended to have the blinds open.

After researching the BDII, mostly on the SI Web site, but also by reading a few reviews, I assumed that ambient light from a side window, which is not coming from the same direction as the light from the projector, would somehow be absorbed by a BDII screen.

Since I live far from any SI dealers, I ordered a BDII, paying full retail, from the designated sole online dealer. The person I talked to had seen a demo and he assured me that the screen did amazing things.

I installed the new screen and immediately noticed that it was only slightly better than my old screen at handling ambient light from my side window. It didn’t absorb the light, it only reflected the light (angle of incidence = angle of reflection), mostly back to my viewing area. I ended up solving the problem by installing a blackout shade behind my blinds. Of course, the shade makes the room dark.

In fairness to SI, they appear to want to make me happy. I have received a set of screen material samples from them. Since I have already solved the ambient light problem with a shade, I was hoping that a .8 gain screen would have fewer artifacts (sparklies and a unusual looking hot spot) that I find to be distracting with my 1.4 gain, but I’m not sure that this would be the case.

Okay... you're a big anti-hype guy Whatever you wish to call yourself, it's safe to say you're NOT a BD fanboy.

I'm not interested in viewing with any lights on in my room, but as it's a living room it has a white ceiling and light side walls. I'd need to get the 1.4 gain and I'll also have to wait until the electric roll down version is available, however I'd love to be able to get the same contrast I currently do with my 1.5 gain 112" wide 2.35:1 Matt White screen but without having to setup a 'bat tent' and generally cover most of the room with black cloths before enjoying a film. So I'm going to try to get a demo of the new screen once it's available (in the UK) and I'll be expecting to be able to take ANSI contrast measurements as well given the expected high price over here.

If it meets my expectations then the BD will save me considerable cost of building a separate room so it could be worth it to me...but I'm going to be a hard sell as I don't like any kind of surface texture, hotspoting or poor contrast.

I know they're only for fun, but the screenshots above look washed out to me, but I guess they're more trying to show how it looks with lights on. What I'd like to see is a screenshot with lights off, but in a room with very light coloured walls and ceiling. It's not something I can use the search for, so if anyone knows of a post with such a picture, please let me know on here or via PM if need be.

My Screen is the 113 inch .8 gain
My room from Screen to back wall is 20-22ft
....

FYI
Have more screen shots over at my Epson 9700ub
thread.....

Will say this Was at Buffalo Wild Wing today
It was mid day and not very bright inside..
And wow every Projector screen image was totally washed out..
and the lighting conditions where mid to dim inside the place
if a black diamond screen was put up in there,
it would put the flat panels to shame

.....
Miss Looking forward to the Fireplace Screen shots...

Right on spot, the same for me.

I don't intend to usually watch any movies with lots of lights in the room, the windows I have, and I have about 5 meters of them, I can easily cover up. But since I also have white ceiling and walls, my main concern is for the reflections I might get with other screen materials such as Stewart and others.

Ok. Not wanting to wade into a bight fight here, but more to illustrate why this is such a great screen, and why it's strengths are so helpful.

Just moving home theater into a new room, which is not built out and treated yet. Only the front cabinetry is finished, the screen is hung with string because the mounts are not here yet, and the wall treatments are not installed. But that doesn't stop my friends and I from making full use in the meanwhile...

The picture attached is with ALL lights on, and there are two big ceiling lights with naked bulbs at the moment, too.

"Reference" would be the "matte white" wall behind the screen. The difference is clear. And the projected whites will be brighter than a matte white screen to, thanks the 1.4 gain.

I took this shot with my iPhone a couple nights ago before our weekly movie night, while us guys were waiting for the others to show up.

I deliberately submit a picture with 4:3 AR so you can clearly see the difference in black between the screen and the wall behind. Is it as black as the velvet border? Of course not, but the relative blacks sighing the image area itself make for a fantastic CR, considering the lights are on.

Other screens, like Stewart's Firehawk, could also help with your situation. You might want to get some samples and see which would do a better job in your room.

The Firehawk has the same general issues as the Black Diamond does: visible texture and restricted viewing angles. My guess is that the more light and reflections that you have, the better the reason to go with a .8 Black Diamond. The 1.4 is probably close to a Firehawk, but there will be differences.

Between the .8 and the 1.4, the .8 is the really special one, in my opinion, because it preserves contrast better because it is darker. But, this is judging the 1.4 solely from a sample and not from a full screen. With a typically bright projector that is calibrated, I would go over 100" on a .8 BD screen. If you are only watching in a dark room, you could probably go with a larger size.

I will stress that when the lights are turned off, this screen still excels. Less light scatter so CR can be really amazing.

About the only question mark I have is how it is going to perform on my 3D setup. I've received one of my two new RS40 units and the other arrives next week. Also, I am receiving the two Optoma 3dXL boxes next week also.

I'll be trying to measure the retained polarization on the BDII and comparing it to other screens, such as maybe Missisipi mans.

Hopefully I'll have my home made RealD theater running by the end of the month!

You must really like those guys. I would never let any friend put their bare feet on my furniture like that.

Since the BD-II has been tested and found (...by LG @ CEDIA w/CF-3D....) to accommodate Passive 3D, with those twin RS40s, and if you get your Polarized Lenses/Glasses matched up correctly, you should be doing very nicely at the smaller size of a BD screen.

If you strike out though...PM me for a solution that beat out BD-Harkness- and several others in a shoot out in the UK. Several 200" Passive 3D screens are currently being built, to be serviced with LF CF-3D PJs

It is a painted solution though...there is that to contend with.

I sure have! In fact...a great big glob of it in the center of the Screen called a "Hot Spot". Just about the worst I have ever seen anyone dare to post too. Congratulations!


Now I do understand that a very bright screen will drive out the Metering of the Camera under such dark conditions, but really, you cannot effectively show "light Scattering".(...another way to describe having a wider viewing cone...) from a forward position. Nope, it has to be from the side. WAY to the side. And you don't have much "side". I see that as a very good reason though why the BD makes good sense for you, and the room's color scheme certainly helps it perform up to snuff as well.

Having seen full screens of both 1.4 and .8 versions I agree: the .8 version is really the one that does a great job dealing with ambient light. The 1.4 version not nearly as much.

Regards to the crown slippin...
you got a 1 count but you need a three to win...lol
So will counter with this....
and not hot spot here....holla holla ...
and regardin your pics,
that old dude is washed out..... but
will admit that what i saw yesturday while Eating
my chicken southwest was simaliar to the da lite shots...(see i am being a good boy getting a chicken wrap)..
but even at side view
BD Diamond Cutters colour is maintained...
So your getting close attempting at a pinfall
but i have kicked out at the 1 count...

Nice shots fraisa. As always it's very impressive you can get a watchable image in those conditions.

Although, as usual, even in your screen shots the lack of image uniformity jumps out at me. The way the screen image is significantly brighter on one side (the side closer to the camera) and darker on the other is something some people won't notice (or won't notice until it's pointed out to them) and others will. For me it's an artifact that just screams it's attention to me. Sometimes ignorance is bliss ;-)

With your knowledge of screens why not explain whats the reason for this and how it can be avoided?

I do see what you are pointing out as well.
In person that effect is not present.
I too am not a Screen Shot Legand like others on this site,
and am very open to advice on how to improve it and reduce that effect...

Again i am no S.S legand in any way and am open to advice on make my shots better....

Here is an example of me trying to elemenate that effect....
but i still have it present...
Definetly want to work on this...

fraisa

I will try to explain
The screens half-gain angle of 44 degrees, 0 being centre straight on viewing, so the further angle off center you go the reflected light is reduced proportionally to 50% light loss at 44 degrees.

So viewing straight on further back for best results. Zoom out and get a better camera

Will have to do that.,..
btw
SOmebody has to think that those double images are Kool.....

I don't find them to be Kool.

Since they don't seem to serve any useful purpose, I find them to be unnecessary Klutter.

You already had 40 images removed.

The purpose of me reposting the pics is i am trying to
discuss suggestions on how to fix this problem of one side being
more bright than the other

Its much easier to see this problem with a double sided image...


Atleast i am working on making my screens shots better,
and am open to suggestions
Putting my pride aside and asking for help.