Black Diamond from Screen Innovations? - Page 8

As far as high CR, for on/off CR without lights on the screen won't affect that. These screens could get some people to only watch with lights on, at which point the CR of the projector won't matter as much (although the screen will help retain what CR is there).

As far as high lumen, it depends on what the lumens were for. If they were to fight other light (lights on or light coming into the room) then a screen like this could reduce the need for high lumens. However, if the extra light was just for lighting up a really big screen, then this "black" feature itself shouldn't change that. Could actually make it go in the opposite direction for some of us who use the High Power, since this screen is lower gain (at least in the ideal viewing positions) and so going to this screen could mean we need more light output from the projector.

I wonder if it would be possible to get a small sample. I would even be willing to pay something for one, but could talk to a friend who does reviews and see if he could get a sample to look at. Or maybe they would send one to Tryg. I think this screen could work well in his setup.

--Darin

Ahh...sorry I misread your meaning with the other threads being posted. Guess it was too early to post my reply without having my coffee first...

I think if anyone is considering a similiar priced screen then they may want to wait. If they don't take what I, or what anyone else has written, at face value then as the saying goes 'the proof is in the pudding.' You will see in due time....however I'll be seeing it sooner than you in my HT room

darinp2: If the BD performs as advertised and h00kemh0rns is right, then this innovation will render the need for masking useless. With the 2-way or 4-way masking prices that companies charge, this sounds amazing to my ears!

Any thoughts on this, h00kem?

I'm not h00kem, but how could the screen even cause that? If a screen was really dark for the projected light (low gain) it might change the perception of things down low and how easy it is to see the levels there (since brighter images tend to make it easier to see details), but this screen isn't black from the front with the projector on. The "black" in black screens like this refers to how they look with things like light coming from big off angles (like light from above), or light at different wavelengths than most of those projected (like with Sony's black screen from a while ago that only reflected certain wavelengths well).

The gain from the projected light is what really matters to this in a truly dark room. As long as it is 1.0 or so then I don't think it should hurt the shadow detail compared to a matte white screen. In a light colored room with no lights on this screen could help how visible some shadow detail is by reducing the washout from light going to the walls and then coming back (basically by increasing how much of the ANSI CR from the projector is retained in the images).

--Darin

That's not true. The screen is not going to magically make a low contrast projector with poor black level into a high contrast PJ. If a projector is low contrast you will still see the black bars regardless of the screen. It would be possible to eliminate masking with a high contrast projector like the RS1/2, by reducing light scatter and reducing potential room interefercne, it would allow you to see its maximum potential which would probably be no visible black bars becuase of it's excellent black level.

Good points. Thanks, Darin.

They have a small showroom but prefer you call and make an appointment, so they can have the right setup ready when you arrive.

hrd, I got a price quote before it was pulled from the website, but it surely wasn't discounted...is this an "industry-only" discount or do you know something special?

Since it's against forum policy to mention pricing other than MSRP, I'll PM you what I found.

Indeed you are right. When I made my intial comment I had this in mind but it never made it in my "Spartan" posting. Maybe it's because I currently own a RS2 and unconsciously it's the reference point in my mind.

Ahh, lucky you, you should probably not need masking if the screen does what they say it does. Hopefully it will be the same for me with my "lowly" RS1

OK, I got an official update from sales at SI on the size limitations and whether larger spliced screens will be available.

No information yet on cost or schedule, but they are experimenting with splicing and producing larger screens. We should have some information "soon," but no idea what "soon" means.

If I could get a 133 16:9 I would probably buy one in a cool second. Now I have to decide if I am going to buy a smaller screen or possibly pick up the Carada and maybe upgrade later as more options are available from SI.

Decisions, decisions!!

It was said you can get a 26" screen for $199 and I assume the monet would be refunded once the screen is returned. I would be very interested in your opinion of this screen as I know your at least very critical of PJ performance (hopefully screens as well).

I don't see why SI would refund the money. It will cost them money to ship it out, and if it comes back, it is as a used screen that no one would pay the full $199 for. The whole concept of selling a sample for $199 is ridiculous, anyway, as no one is ever going to buy such a thing.

To clarify the cost of the samples issue I contacted SI and was told that "Samples will be free and available after we begin shipping."

I am waiting for the motorized version of BD and was also concerned about the thickness issue. I talked to SI yesterday about this.
It turns out the the fixed BD screen is 20mil thick (a mil is 1/1000 of an inch) not 20mm. So actually the fabric is not much different then std vinyl fabric. For the motorized version they will use a version that is slighter thinner then that. Bottom line, thickness should not be a problem.

Ian

Does anyone know about the Super flat tension system for the roll down screens?

This would be my ignorance, or rather assumption, when I was told 20 mil. When Aaron said Mil I heard it as mm. Apologies if I relayed this info incorrectly.

"When Aaron said Mil I heard it as mm."

I work in aerospace and we have that problem too.

For what it's worth, I too got a chance to audition this screen at the Orlando EHX. I had a chance to hang around since it was the last day (Saturday) and talk to the SI people and the RBH group.

This screen is AWESOME. The had two different projectors for this setup. Even with the smaller projector on just part of the Black Diamond screen it really shined.

All I know is my Stewart Firehawk is getting replaced with one of these.

I think once people let their eyes do the talking alot will be in this same boat.

http://www.electronichouse.com/artic...m_of_a_screen/
"This Diamond's a true gem."

I know this may sound stupid, but you don't realize how black the screen really is till you look at it in the light with nothing projected on it.

It even looked good without masking at the show. But let's hope they get some sort of automated masking system in the future, though. You could buy somebody else's masking system like the Carada Masquerade, but it would be nice to get the whole package in one unit.

"you don't realize how black". This sounds contradictory to the need for automated masking you mention later on. Can you please clarify?
If you projected a 16:9 image on a 2.35:1 screen would you need masking or not? Is the material black enough so that it's not needed or not? What about light bleeding?

Not sure why you would even need masking. The 1.4 gain seemed to work great and I'll assume the .8 would only be better. If you have the money to burn and just want the aesthetic aspect of masking then do it. Otherwise IMHO, I dont think it would be frugal to use a masking system with the BD.

As I believe was already stated, now matter how black the screen looks, the pj lights it up and too high a black level will be the issue.

Amen!! It's the PJ that will most determine whether or not you need masking NOT the screen. The BD should help a capable projector by imrpoving its ANSI contrast, but NOT just ANY projector.

That's because you're forgetting that you saw the screen with a projector with a 30,000 : 1 contrast ratio and one of, if not THE best black levels! A screen can only reflect what the projector is displaying. If it were to do otherwise would be a distrortion. What you're describing is a screen that would have to CRUSH all low level grays and blacks, so that no matter what projector it is being used with (even for example a 1000:1 LCD projector which has light gray instead of truly black letterbox bars which VERY few PJ's do), the black bars will appear BLACK. This would also affect the part of the screen where there is actual movie content as well, blacks and grays would be crushed. This should explain why it's not the screen that dictates whether or not you need masking.

h00kemh0rns what projector will you be using the BD with?

Mikenificent1: According to your opinion does the RS2 qualify as a projector that wouldn't need masking when projecting on the BD?

H00kem saw the BD with your PJ (same unit different model#), and he states that he saw no need for masking with it. I would think with either a light controlled room and dark walls, or with the BD (if it meets it's expectations) and the RS2 is projecting at max throw (for the highest contrast ratio), you should not need masking IMO. Either way it doesn't look like you would want masking anyway so its probably a moot point.