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Black Diamond from Screen Innovations? - Page 117

post #3481 of 3550
I pulled the trigger today on the 110" black diamond zero edge w/ floating wire kit and jvc rs57 can't wait to see it all.
post #3482 of 3550
Congrats! You have to post pics once you get it installed. I was thinking about the jvc rs4910 and the bd 1.4 zero edge in 106"
post #3483 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by cchrono View Post

I pulled the trigger today on the 110" black diamond zero edge w/ floating wire kit and jvc rs57 can't wait to see it all.

You'll love it. I have the BD 1.4 110" paired with an Epson 5020 and it's awesome
post #3484 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

You'll love it. I have the BD 1.4 110" paired with an Epson 5020 and it's awesome

Quote:
Originally Posted by llang269 View Post

Congrats! You have to post pics once you get it installed. I was thinking about the jvc rs4910 and the bd 1.4 zero edge in 106"

Yeah can't wait also got the hanging wire kit so it will hang and float from ceiling.
post #3485 of 3550
So what made you go with the bd or the slate material?
post #3486 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by llang269 View Post

So what made you go with the bd or the slate material?

Well I wasn't ever able to see the slate material in person. The black diamond is suppose to be better so that's ultimately why I choose it. The price was also better than expected ordering from Craig at avscience.
post #3487 of 3550

I just installed a 115" black diamond zero edge with an Epson 6030 and It's hard to know what to think.

 

I researched these for over 6 months (prior to and during a remodel) and went to about 5 media stores in the Dallas area and talked to everyone I could about them during my reviews.  I also spoke to SI many times because I kept hearing excellent things then others would say don't do it.  I ended up buying it because I have a bright room and work from home during the day and here are my questions after having it for 48 hours.

 

I'm noticing a lot of bright crystals (not sure  what to call it) when the picture is on a solid color.  When watching the Olympics I find my eyes focusing on the sparkly spots on the snow scenes or on the hockey rink or an up close shot with a solid red color etc and it's starting to get annoying.    Is this normal with a black diamond because I don't remember seeing it in the stores and I put down a lot of money for this thing.   

 

I have to have it in dynamic mode to see the picture in the day time w/ a bright room and lots of ambient light which I wasn't expecting.   Any help or suggestions on this would be useful but I will also try and call SI on Monday to see what they say.  

post #3488 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by westcott2010 View Post

I just installed a 115" black diamond zero edge with an Epson 6030 and It's hard to know what to think.

I researched these for over 6 months and went to about 5 media stores in the Dallas area and talked to everyone and reviewed them.  I also spoke to SI many times because I kept hearing excellent things then others would say don't do it.  I ended up buying it and here are my questions after having it for 48 hours.

I'm noticing a lot of bright crystals (not sure  what to call it) when the picture is on a solid color.  When watching hte olympics I find my eyes focusing on the sparkly spots on the snow scenes or on the hockey rink or an up close shot with a solid red color etc and it's starting to get annoying.    Is this normal with a black diamond because I don't remember seeing it in the stores and I put down a lot of money for this thing.   

I have to have it in dynamic mode to see the picture in the day time w/ a bright room and lots of ambient light which I wasn't expecting.   Any help or suggestions on this would be useful but I will also try and call SI on Monday to see what they say.  

I see a bit in white scenes, bright blue sky scenes etc......but it is small and bothers me less and less. Pretty much any positive gain screen will have this effect to some degree.....just the nature of a reflective material. Some notice or focus on it more than others.
post #3489 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post


You'll love it. I have the BD 1.4 110" paired with an Epson 5020 and it's awesome

Do you notice any crystallization when looking at the picture on a solid color?  I'm using it in dynamic/eco mode.

post #3490 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post


I see a bit in white scenes, bright blue sky scenes etc......but it is small and bothers me less and less. Pretty much any positive gain screen will have this effect to some degree.....just the nature of a reflective material. Some notice or focus on it more than others.


Do you work for SI - I notice you are in Austin?

post #3491 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by westcott2010 View Post


Do you work for SI - I notice you are in Austin?

No, just a customer. BlakeSI does and is a forum member.....he posts in here pretty often.
post #3492 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post

I see a bit in white scenes, bright blue sky scenes etc......but it is small and bothers me less and less.

I was told by SI that after a few weeks to a month, most folks adjust and find that it doesn't bother them as much over time. They find that the benefits outweigh things like this. I think there is truth to the compromises involved with these types of screens.

Dave
post #3493 of 3550
Is the SLATE the new best bang for the buck? Any intro prices available?
post #3494 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by thezaks View Post

I was told by SI that after a few weeks to a month, most folks adjust and find that it doesn't bother them as much over time. They find that the benefits outweigh things like this. I think there is truth to the compromises involved with these types of screens.

Dave

It's true. I don't notice much anymore except for a small circle Again, I think any positive gain screen hotspot in white scenes........it's not distracting, I just notice. Otherwise the picture, color and black levels are terrific. Again I think that most any positive gain screen will exhibit this to some degree.
post #3495 of 3550

Nice view and pictures. Which projector are you using?

post #3496 of 3550
I bought and installed this 1.4 black diamond zero edge 120" 2.35 screen about 7 months ago. I am using a panasonic PT-AE8000 and I have been extremely happy with it. Sorry the picture is a little fuzzy.

Rob

post #3497 of 3550
Wow!! Picture looks great. Congrats really nice set up
post #3498 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by robininni View Post

I bought and installed this 1.4 black diamond zero edge 120" 2.35 screen about 7 months ago. I am using a panasonic PT-AE8000 and I have been extremely happy with it. Sorry the picture is a little fuzzy.

Rob


Whoa. A backlit projected image. You don't see that very often.

No light washout from light scatter in the room? I guess if you are going to choose a screen to be used with backlighting, a black diamond type would be the way to go.

Do you notice any improvements in contrast/apparent black levels when having your image backlit? Or is that just for show and you have the lights off for watching?
post #3499 of 3550
Pictures like that are what would sell people on projection. It is tempting me yet again.
post #3500 of 3550
Rich,

The back lighting is not just for show. It actually makes the picture 'easier' to see when the lights are out (how most of us would be using a projector). It sort of makes the picture 'pop' and frames it nicely. Of course with the black diamond 1.4 screen, I can watch during daytime or with all the lights on too without distracting levels of picture degradation but the back lighting doesn't do much in those situations. I'll let you judge for yourself with my pictures below if you think the back light helps in the dark.

First, here's 3 pics with all the lights on full, one with no back light, one with it on its lowest setting and one with it on its highest setting. I'm using my favorite color, orange.





Here's 3 pics with no lights on (well the hall way is lit). This is a relatively bright image and again you have no BL, low BL, and high BL.





Here's 3 pics with no lights on. This is a relatively faint image and again you have no BL, low BL, and high BL.





Here's some pics of a few of the preprogrammed color choices. You can have any color you by mixing the red, green, and blue LED lights in any variation/intensity.








It also serves another purpose and that is, when on full brightness (any color), it completely masks the faint 'black bar' light that would be seen below my screen with no back lighting as you will see in pictures I will provide.

This was my first 2.35 screen set up. I previously had a 1.78 screen. After understanding how the projector gets the 2.35 content to fill the screen (zoom/refocus), I became concerned as to whether I would see light above and/or below my screen from the now larger black bars since the content is really formatted as 1.78 for playback meaning the black bars are actually 'lit' with projector light. With the zero edge, you have no border to speak of to absorb any or this and you don't want to mask it as that would look retarded and defeat the purpose of the zero edge. I asked whether I would see this black bar light and SI said I wouldn't. The people I bought the screen and projector from thought I might if I recall, but that it would be barely noticeable. Well I purchased the set up anyway hoping it would work as I expected.

Because my projector height is at the top edge of my screen I don't get a top black bar above my screen when zoomed in for 2.35 content. Instead a get one very large black bar below the screen. Now because the Panasonic PT-8000AE is so good, it is noticeable but not distracting at all. But I bought the zero edge black diamond hoping the LED back lights would hide this completely and it does.

Here are 3 pictures showing the shadow of my head in the 'black bar light' area below the screen. You can see the effect the back lighting has on it.





Lastly, here is a pic of my projector.



I hope this helps smile.gif.

Rob
post #3501 of 3550
Thanks for those pics. It seems like the bias lighting makes the white lights on the image take on that color. I think it might be a perceptual issue, not an actual change in color, but I definitely see it. The star field pics are remarkably different with the bias lighting. I wonder how much of the difference between the pics is camera exposure? Are they accurate to what your eyes are seeing?

Also, is that your primary TV and an every day kind of room that you're watching daily TV on, or is it primarily used for movies?
post #3502 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

Thanks for those pics. It seems like the bias lighting makes the white lights on the image take on that color. I think it might be a perceptual issue, not an actual change in color, but I definitely see it. The star field pics are remarkably different with the bias lighting. I wonder how much of the difference between the pics is camera exposure? Are they accurate to what your eyes are seeing?

Also, is that your primary TV and an every day kind of room that you're watching daily TV on, or is it primarily used for movies?

The camera I used isn't doing a great job. This back lighting doesn't affect the color of the image at all. It only shines on the wall behind the frame. I think the auto exposure selections my camera is using may make you feel that way (although I really don't see it in the pictures as you do) and the camera is definitely not an accurate representation of what my eyes see, but it does give you an idea if you are considering such a screen.

And yes, this is not a theater room, this is my living room! This room has windows to the backyard (covered by porch) and a front door with windows. The ambient light comes in at roughly 90 degree angles to the screen and the black diamond handles it very well. You can easily watch tv/movies during the day with the projector I use (Panasonic PT-AE8000) which occurs all the time with the kids watching stuff during the day.

Rob
post #3503 of 3550
Rob, great post! Thx u
post #3504 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by robininni View Post

The camera I used isn't doing a great job. This back lighting doesn't affect the color of the image at all. It only shines on the wall behind the frame. I think the auto exposure selections my camera is using may make you feel that way (although I really don't see it in the pictures as you do) and the camera is definitely not an accurate representation of what my eyes see, but it does give you an idea if you are considering such a screen.

And yes, this is not a theater room, this is my living room! This room has windows to the backyard (covered by porch) and a front door with windows. The ambient light comes in at roughly 90 degree angles to the screen and the black diamond handles it very well. You can easily watch tv/movies during the day with the projector I use (Panasonic PT-AE8000) which occurs all the time with the kids watching stuff during the day.

Rob
Great posts! Just curious. Why you choose to drop down your Panasonic 8000 to line up with the screen instead of employing its vertical lens shift?
post #3505 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by simpleHT View Post

Great posts! Just curious. Why you choose to drop down your Panasonic 8000 to line up with the screen instead of employing its vertical lens shift?

I AM using the lens shift feature, however, as a minimum, the projector can be located no higher than the top screen edge or you will not be able to shift it low enough to put your 2.35 AND 1.78 picture where you need to. Doing this automatic zoom/reposition/refocus method of switching back and forth between 1.78 and 2.35 requires a very 'tight' installation unlike positioning your projector to simply do 1.78 format all the time. I tried but failed to get my projector lined up perfectly horizontally with my screen and the result is that my 1.78 content has slightly unequal left and right black pillars. I cannot digitally center the image left and right without immediately cropping one or the other side. You have to start with the 2.35 image centered using the manual lens shift 'stick' and then see where your 1.78 image lands. You have a bit of room with the vertical digital shifting to get the 2.35 where it needs to be but no room with the digital left/right shifting. The closer you are to the center of the screen with your projector position, the easier time you will have getting the 1.78 and 2.35 content to fit perfectly on the screen. It was actually quite stressful and I was glad it worked out right for me in the end. There were a few panic moments of thinking I was going to need to raise my screen.

Rob
Edited by robininni - 3/10/14 at 5:41am
post #3506 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by robinQ'si View Post

And yes, this is not a theater room, this is my living room! This room has windows to the backyard (covered by porch) and a front door with windows. The ambient light comes in at roughly 90 degree angles to the screen and the black diamond handles it very well. You can easily watch tv/movies during the day with the projector I use (Panasonic PT-AE8000) which occurs all the time with the kids watching stuff during the day.

Rob

I have been seriously considering doing this, but after some feedback in other threads I've been hesitant. My primary concerns are:
1)That my JVC 4910 may not have the light output to deal with the daytime viewing
2) some have brought up the issue of frequent on-off cycling of the PJ may cause some picture denigration over time(I forget the term for it) and multiple bulb "strikes" will significantly degrade bulb life
3) During normal use and room traffic with casual viewing shadows from people walking in front of the screen

Since you've been living with this setup for a time, any thoughts on these things? Also, did this replace a good flat panel and any regrets or complaints from wife or family?

Sorry for all the Q's, but you're a goldmine of info for me. biggrin.gif
post #3507 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I have been seriously considering doing this, but after some feedback in other threads I've been hesitant. My primary concerns are:
1)That my JVC 4910 may not have the light output to deal with the daytime viewing
2) some have brought up the issue of frequent on-off cycling of the PJ may cause some picture denigration over time(I forget the term for it) and multiple bulb "strikes" will significantly degrade bulb life
3) During normal use and room traffic with casual viewing shadows from people walking in front of the screen

Since you've been living with this setup for a time, any thoughts on these things? Also, did this replace a good flat panel and any regrets or complaints from wife or family?

Sorry for all the Q's, but you're a goldmine of info for me. biggrin.gif

I'll have my black diamond and jvc rs57 soon as a full time living room setup I will let you know my thoughts as well.
post #3508 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gooddoc View Post

I have been seriously considering doing this, but after some feedback in other threads I've been hesitant. My primary concerns are:
1)That my JVC 4910 may not have the light output to deal with the daytime viewing
2) some have brought up the issue of frequent on-off cycling of the PJ may cause some picture denigration over time(I forget the term for it) and multiple bulb "strikes" will significantly degrade bulb life
3) During normal use and room traffic with casual viewing shadows from people walking in front of the screen

Since you've been living with this setup for a time, any thoughts on these things? Also, did this replace a good flat panel and any regrets or complaints from wife or family?

Sorry for all the Q's, but you're a goldmine of info for me. biggrin.gif

1. Not sure about your JVC 4910 but I simply used this wonderful calculator to design my system and apparently, based upon my screen size and throw range, 23 fL is adequate for this sort of setup as it works great.

2. I don't know about this and haven't read anything about it but I guess it's possible that a projector used this way may be 'overworked' but I highly doubt it.

3. My top screen edge is 79" from the floor and the center of my projector lens is 76" from the floor. Shadows are not a problem unless someone is walking close enough to the screen that it would block at large LCD as well. There also is not through traffic in between my projector and screen unless you are going to the backyard. I think a major key is don't mount the projector too low and apparently 6+ ft high works well.

As far as family acceptance and general thoughts. I really like it and so do the wife and kids (although the kids are too young--oldest is 4--to really care either way). There is a small delay to turning on the projector versus an LCD but it is almost no worse than a DLP TV. I've had a 60" DLP as the living room TV and a 55" LCD and this is, of course, much better! I love being able to watch movies too in 2.35 appearance right in our living room rather than going to some dark-far off theater room. Sure at night you can turn off the lights and make it practically like a theater room, but you don't have too as you can watch with the lights on too just about as easily (small picture degradation depending on the lighting intensity, but nothing like a 'washed out' picture you would get with a typical non-black diamond screen). It's really incredible. So no regrets except I had a big psychological hurdle to paying $4200 for a screen when my first EZ frame 120" 1.78 aspect ratio screen cost me $500 smile.gif.

Here are some 'real life' living room pictures for you and notice how that sweet 5.1 audio with awesome projector and screen fits in wonderfully smile.gif







By the way, I also use this: DVDO DVDOAir-P Wireless for HDMI Connection System which works extremely well LoS. It sometimes has difficultly establishing an initial connection when the system is first turned on (not always) but I have found when it does this to just press a 'reconnect' type button on the back of the component down by my receiver under the screen and it will connect in seconds. This saved me a messy, expensive HDMI cable run installed through a fireblocked wall.

Rob
post #3509 of 3550
I also have decided to make my projector setup to replace family room TV. I have placed order for BD 115" 16:9, because my family mostly watches DishNetwork. I currently have an entry level projector, and the screen costs almost 4 times of the projector eek.gif. Long story short, I got the projector as an experimental project. I like it so much that I decided to have the setup replace my family room plasma. Once I get the screen and hang it up, I will upgrade the projector as needed. Hope my wife and I will like it and don't have to go back to plasma or lcd mad.gif
post #3510 of 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by westcott2010 View Post
 

I just installed a 115" black diamond zero edge with an Epson 6030 and It's hard to know what to think.

 

I researched these for over 6 months (prior to and during a remodel) and went to about 5 media stores in the Dallas area and talked to everyone I could about them during my reviews.  I also spoke to SI many times because I kept hearing excellent things then others would say don't do it.  I ended up buying it because I have a bright room and work from home during the day and here are my questions after having it for 48 hours.

 

I'm noticing a lot of bright crystals (not sure  what to call it) when the picture is on a solid color.  When watching the Olympics I find my eyes focusing on the sparkly spots on the snow scenes or on the hockey rink or an up close shot with a solid red color etc and it's starting to get annoying.    Is this normal with a black diamond because I don't remember seeing it in the stores and I put down a lot of money for this thing.   

 

I have to have it in dynamic mode to see the picture in the day time w/ a bright room and lots of ambient light which I wasn't expecting.   Any help or suggestions on this would be useful but I will also try and call SI on Monday to see what they say.  

I even called and asked multiple times before pulling the plug and ordering one.  When we spend $4k on one of these I would hope for a little honesty.  I wouldn't simply have chosen another SI product.  I'm working on resolving with SI now, but the process has put me outside of my return policy where I purchased and the one they and I am leaning towards is almost $1500 less MSRP.  

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