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RGB Full Range and Sony XBR4 - Page 15

post #421 of 438
So...what is the final and correct answer ? Full or Limited ?
post #422 of 438
Limited with proper calibration on the HDTV

Full for PC Monitors
post #423 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

They are right and wrong. Auto works fine and RGB will force RGB for BD/DVD's which will clip/crush blacks, but here is what I have found.

I have a Denon 4308 that tells me what my sources are sending in terms of video and audio. It tells me both what the source is and if I convert/scale the source what the resulting resolution, color space and pixel depth is. This is for BD's:


Resolution: 1080p/24Hz

Color Space: Y CbCr 4:4:4

Pixel Depth: 12 bits

When I play BD's the Denon says they are 12 bit 4:4:4 (actually 8 bit but the PS3 does have a deep color upconverter).

For PS3 games like Infamous:

Resolution: 720p

Color Space: RGB 4:4:4

Pixel Depth: 12 bit

If I set the Video Output settings for BD/DVD to Y CbCr that is what the Denon says I am outputting when I play BD's and with the same setting in the Video Output when I play PS3 games the Denon tells me I am outputting RGB which as I said all along the PS3 knows the difference between games and videos and sends out the proper color space, RGB for games even if Y Cb Cr is forced under video output settings BECAUSE THE PS3 KNOWS THE COLOR SPACE IS DIFFERENT FOR GAMES AND VIDEOS WHICH IS WHY YOU WANT RGB FULL UNDER DISPLAY SETTINGS AND ON YOUR DISPLAY AND UNDER VIDEO OUTPUT SETTINGS FOR THE PS3 CHOOSE EITHER AUTO OR Y CB CR, BUT NOT RGB OR THAT IS WHERE IT WILL FORCE RGB FOR BLU RAYS AND CAUSE BLACK CRUSH.

You can continue to listen to some erroneous info some are giving or believe me when I tell you if your display is calibrated correctly and you use the settings I have recommended then you will get PS3 games and BD's to output in their proper color space respectively.


From the cnet recommended settings for PS3 Blu Ray settings, which is important to remember they are for BD's and they don't go into discussing game settings:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10022389-1.html



# BD/DVD Video Output Format (HDMI): Automatic
This setting affects the color space output via the PS3. RGB is best for video games, which use the same color spce as computers, while Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr is best for video, including DVD and Blu-ray discs. Auto usually works to detect the source properly, so we recommend most people stick with this setting. If you experience discoloration or other issues, try another setting.


# RGB Full Range (HDMI): Limited
This setting controls the range of information output via HDMI. Contrary to what you might think, this setting is best left on Limited for video-based material like Blu-ray and DVD for the majority of HDMI televisions. Some newer HDTVs can receive a slight benefit from Full if calibrated properly, but in general Limited is the best choice, and we use it in the lab to ensure compatibility of the reference player with all displays.



Cnet tells you right there rgb for games because they use the same color space as computers which IS RGB FULL!!
And then under their heading of RGB Full Range they say for video like BD/DVD IS BEST ON LIMITED!!


Don't you get it?, Cnet just told you Limited is the way to go for the Display settings and Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr for the movies settings, why are you trying to say Cnet is saying put it on Full for games?, they are not telling you that.

They are saying games are made with RGB Full space in mind, not telling you games are better with RBG Full set on the display settings...he literally tells you the best is Limited before saying anything else!.

Limited is the way go to on HDTV's with proper calibration done, your PS3 will shine.

If you got a monitor go ahead and put it RGB Full, calibrate if you need to and your PS3 gaming

will be shine on that.
post #424 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gslide View Post

Don't you get it?, Cnet just told you Limited is the way to go for the Display settings and Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr for the movies settings, why are you trying to say Cnet is saying put it on Full for games?, they are not telling you that.

They are saying games are made with RGB Full space in mind, not telling you games are better with RBG Full set on the display settings...he literally tells you the best is Limited before saying anything else!.

Not quite. What they're saying is that they use "RGB Limited" because it's the most compatible - and that's true because there are numerous TVs out there that don't support RGB Full.

The Pioneer KRP line has a bug that causes them to auto detect RGB Limited incorrectly, but they can auto detect and support RGB Full.

Does it really matter which side is performing the color space conversion as long as it's done and done correctly?
post #425 of 438
If your PS3 is plugged into a computer monitor, use Full.

If it's plugged into a TV, use Limited.

(but yes, its getting confusing as TVs inch closer to monitors)
post #426 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by JonW747 View Post

Does it really matter which side is performing the color space conversion as long as it's done and done correctly?

Nope! What is important is that both source and set are set the same. The real important thing to note is it appears the XBR4 doesn't Auto detect properly in all cases so it is safest to force both source and set to the same setting to ensure it is working the way you want it to.

You'll know if it's off. Either the display will be washed out and grayish, or it will be brilliant colors and blacks will be flattened so badly you will barely be able to see people's faces in dark scenes.

Scott
post #427 of 438
My settings and why:
Output - YCbCr
RGB - Limit
Super White - On

First I callibrated my tv with DVE BLU-RAY (video thus YCbCr output) so that blacker than black bar merged with black and whiter than white bar merged with white bar (as they are supposed to).
Then I went back to XMB and downloaded an RGB picture with BTB and WTW bars. When setting RGB to limited the BTB and WTW bars still merged correctly just like the blu-ray callibration. And when increasing brightness I could clearly distinguish the separate BTB and WTW bars, proving that even in limited RGB setting ALL GRAYSCALES were displayed!
When setting RGB to full, I got crushed blacks. Increasing brightness would resolve this, but that would mean that when watching movies this would now result in a too bright picture.

So grayscale in RGB LIMITED is comparable to grayscale in YCbCr, grayscale in RGB FULL is darker than that in YCbCr.
post #428 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeruDaDamaga View Post

My settings and why:
Output - YCbCr
RGB - Limit
Super White - On

First I callibrated my tv with DVE BLU-RAY (video thus YCbCr output) so that blacker than black bar merged with black and whiter than white bar merged with white bar (as they are supposed to).
Then I went back to XMB and downloaded an RGB picture with BTB and WTW bars. When setting RGB to limited the BTB and WTW bars still merged correctly just like the blu-ray callibration. And when increasing brightness I could clearly distinguish the separate BTB and WTW bars, proving that even in limited RGB setting ALL GRAYSCALES were displayed!
When setting RGB to full, I got crushed blacks. Increasing brightness would resolve this, but that would mean that when watching movies this would now result in a too bright picture.

So grayscale in RGB LIMITED is comparable to grayscale in YCbCr, grayscale in RGB FULL is darker than that in YCbCr.

I agree... partially.
First make sure your TV is also set to FULL RGB (aka HDMI Black Level / Expanded Black level, depending on the brand), then go back and redo the tests. You should get nearly the same results.
The HDMI (Expanded) Black Level on your TV has no effect when playing video content (BD) as long as you don't force video playback to RGB (see other posts). When you play video content the TV black level is automatically set to low/limited, regardless its previous setting, but when you return to the XMB your TV changes back to the RGB domain and that's why the HDMI black level must be set according to the PS3 RGB setting.

PS3 RGB = Limited -> TV black level = low/limited
PS3 RGB = Full -> TV black level = normal/full

If you mix the settings you still get optimum calibration for video content (since RGB DOES NOT AFFECT YCC), but you'll end up with crushed blacks when playing RGB content (games, XMB).

Best regards.
post #429 of 438
People calibrate tvs for LIMITED. Aka using pluge and adjust the below blacks, etc.

And generally the calibration disk they use is a BD disk like HD Digital Video Essentials played from that same PS3.

So that auto-setting to limited mode for BD playback might screw up your game tv settings if you use the same TV input for game and BD watching.

(summary, always use Limited if you've ever calibrated your tv).

If you play games on a seperate TV input, you might be safe (since TVs generally have seperate color settings for each input)... of course it'll look like garbage because its not calibrated properly ;-)
post #430 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by defdog99 View Post

People calibrate tvs for LIMITED. Aka using pluge and adjust the below blacks, etc.

And generally the calibration disk they use is a BD disk like HD Digital Video Essentials played from that same PS3.

So that auto-setting to limited mode for BD playback might screw up your game tv settings if you use the same TV input for game and BD watching.

(summary, always use Limited if you've ever calibrated your tv).

If you play games on a seperate TV input, you might be safe (since TVs generally have seperate color settings for each input)... of course it'll look like garbage because its not calibrated properly ;-)

The setting is per input so it won't affect anything.
post #431 of 438
The games definitely will look better on RGB full, you just need to calibrate your TV.
Games running on my Panasonic plasma looked dark but I have switched to ECO picture mode and used calibration video(link below) to calibrate contrast, brightness and other parameters and now my games looks SuperB.

http://www.filejumbo.com/Download/AB091EEF36A015F8
post #432 of 438
^thx for the video.
post #433 of 438
I'm using a Sony KDL46Z5500 and I keep it on limited. When I set it to full the colours look too saturated for my tastes and and there is very little detail in shadows.
post #434 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marka1700 View Post

I'm using a Sony KDL46Z5500 and I keep it on limited. When I set it to full the colours look too saturated for my tastes and and there is very little detail in shadows.

How do you think why TV has adjustment options? You have good TV and ps3, use it in full advantage.
post #435 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marka1700 View Post

I'm using a Sony KDL46Z5500 and I keep it on limited. When I set it to full the colours look too saturated for my tastes and and there is very little detail in shadows.

That's because your TV and PS3 need to be set to the same. If you set Full on your TV, set Full on your PS3.
post #436 of 438
Man someone really needs to edit the first post so people don't have to look through 15 pages of posts for the answer.

P.S. scottlindner you are completely right. Sucks that those other people were spreading false information when arguing with you.
post #437 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomazaz View Post

The games definitely will look better on RGB full, you just need to calibrate your TV.
Games running on my Panasonic plasma looked dark but I have switched to ECO picture mode and used calibration video(link below) to calibrate contrast, brightness and other parameters and now my games looks SuperB.

http://www.filejumbo.com/Download/AB091EEF36A015F8

this is an awesome package. Question though. IS there a guide out there for some of those patterns? (the ones in the pattern packet) I dont recognise several of them or see what your suposed to do. I.e. Full RGB, and FULLWHITERGB, ect
post #438 of 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by domingos38 View Post

using my PS3 to play my bluray movies on my epson 8350

please help me choose the correct VIDEO setting to get the best picture quality

thanks

Um, methinks you're on the wrong thread.

Now if it was about a Sony XBR....
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