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Viewsonic Pro8100 1080p Projector - Page 283

post #8461 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heboil View Post

Hey guys! It's been a couple of years since I last posted on the forum. Boy, I need a refresher with this menu system! Let me list the problems/issues, and see if anyone is still hanging around here that can help.
  1. Had a dust blob. Ran it in High Altitude mode for hours to clean it out. Blew around some canned air here and there. Took the filter down to clean it. I had completely forgotten to clean the filter... ever. What color is it supposed to be? Please tell me that it is not supposed to be white... because mine certainly isn't. Either way, the blob is gone... but since I cleaned it my lamp indicator is going off.
  2. Since cleaning the filter and running in High Altitude mode, lamp indicator has come on. It doesn't seem too dim or anything of that nature to me. I have about 1300 hours on it. I was planning on getting a new lamp at 1500 hours anyway (around 3 years ownership), but does this indicator come on because it just "thinks" it is about time, or is there some sensor that "knows" something is up?
  3. I decided to try Dark Rider's '2200 hours' settings. I completely forgot how to do the settings with this projector! I forgot that the color saved slots are not for all settings... just color. I think I messed stuff up, but have since remembered that I had things saved in the CINEMA and PRO areas. I think my color is off though now... things seem way too green. What is a good baseline to get myself back in good standings?
  4. PCS? I can't get any of Dark Rider's settings to work as anytime I change anything in PCS it alters my colors so drastically that my color scheme almost looks inverted. Looks like everything is in the wrong color space and colors are grossly bleeding or worse. Sunburns glowing off the object... crazy blooming. I just can't seem to do anything to get this working even in the ballpark of normalcy. Firmware is 2.51 in case anyone is wondering.
In the end, I was able to get back to where I was before, except my colors have definitely seemed to have changed. To make matters much worse, I am red/green color blind. I have a decent understanding of what is right and wrong in a picture, but I am not great and picking out small variances etc. Right now, all I know is things look too green... even for my eyes. When I set the color temp to COOL or COOL 2, things seemed to look much better, but the picture got too dark. Add this to the fact that any time I switch my video source from one to another while keeping it on the same HDMI, my screen turns to purplish snow. I then need to change my source on my receiver to my turntable, and then switch back for the video to display properly. I am chalking this up to HDMI handshake issues. I live with it, but I am the only one in the family who knows how to get this to work.

Aside from this and needing to unplug the unit if left unattended for a few days due to the banding, I have been very happy. I have gone through a couple of projectors before this, and the level of happiness I have maintained for almost 3 years says something about the picture quality. If I can get things back and change my lamp and get a good boost, I could easily be happy for another 2-3 years.

TIA.

As others inidicated, no worries about the lamp indicator. I think mine went off at either 500 or 1000 hours... somewhere in that ballpark. I've got over 2500 hours at this point and very little dimming on my original lamp. I use the Endust vaccum filters and still have had no problems whatsoever with dust blobs, even after doubling the time in between changes. If you do a search in this thread, you can find a couple online places to order them.

Your PCS problems are undoubtedly being caused by gamma settings, and likely your skin tone adjustment. If switching gamma from 2.4 to 2.2 and back to 2.4 doesn't rid your problems with my newest settings. Go into skin tone adjustment, pick a neutral skin tone, then go back in and switch from 2.4 to 2.2 and back to 2.4. That should hopefully work. I've seen the symptoms you describe, and it is crazy to say the least. This is the only time I ever recommend touching the skin tone adjustment BTW. Let us know how it works out for you.
post #8462 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by bclbob View Post

Calibrated with the AVS disk, ColorHCFR and EyeOne LT sensor.

My 8100 is on a replacement Viewsonic bulb, calibrated around 75 hours. On my unit the settings give a perfect 2.2 gamma, very grey greyscale and very close primary colors. The secondaries are a little off but still really good.

I also like it bright, so this is a calibration for the bulb in NORMAL, not ECO.

* Picture
# Basic
- Contrast: 48
- Brightness: 46
- Saturation: 33
- Hue: 50
- Sharpness 46

# Advanced
- Picture Mode: User
- Black Level: Blacker than Black
- HQV
. Detail: 2
. Film Mode: Auto
. LTI/CTI: Off

* Memory
# Custom Color Temperature
- R Gain: 481
- G Gain: 344
- B Gain: 380
- R Offset: 522
- G Offset: 522
- B Offset: 532

* PCS
# Mode: User
# Gamma: 2.2
# 3D Color
- Red: Hue 45 Color 48
- Green: Hue 74 Color 45
- Blue: Hue 24 Color 67
- Cyan: Hue 48 Color 31
- Magenta: Hue 50 Color 50
- Yellow: Hue 52 Color 27

See what you think

bclbob, first off, kudos for taking the time to calibrate and posting up your numbers! Your numbers look quite similar to my early calibration runs, so I have no doubts your calibration looks good on a newer bulb and are most likely has very good color accuracy. I do have a couple of comments though for your next run that I think will help you eek out an even more pleasing picture, if you're open to suggestions? I've had the chance to run 3 different pro8100's now, 2 of them multiple times, and I've seen some trends that I think could prove useful.

Personally, I'm all about shadow detail over absolute brightness, so I'm always trying to eek out any improvements to the darker IREs. That said, I don't like Blacker than Black as a calibration starting point. I've tried it, but get better results with Normal as a starting point. You get slightly more contrast with BTB, but it sacrifices detail and crushes blacks.

For gamma, do generic runs at both 2.2 and 2.4. 2.2, as you indicated 2.2 isn't bad by any means and is a bit brighter. However, you will get better blacks with minimal sacrifice in brightness if you switch to the 2.4 gamma.

For saturation, I'm not sure if you started at 50, but it looks a bit low to me. With the Pro8100 basic saturation control, you only get about a 5 point spread in either direction before it induces color shift. Personally, I only use saturation as a last resort. Granted, the Pro8100 comes oversaturated OTB, but you can dial it back any color shift in the grayscale calibration, and balance out saturation and luminance for each of the primaries when you do the 3D color adjustments in PCS.
I will preface by saying that I like a slightly oversaturated image, as long as the color is accurate (maintain low deltaE's). It gives more pop, and our eyes are used to seeing WAY oversaturated displays from the factory. That said, if you calibrate only for a perfect CIE chart, you often end up with a dull looking display. Calman made changes with V4.0+ that stress primary luminance over saturation, which I think results in a better overall looking picture. Take that for what it is, just a recommendation. I have run my calibrations both ways, and I've gotta say, the newest recommendations in Calman have made me a firm believer. I'll PM you more specific instructions on this one, if you're curious.
post #8463 of 9206
Thanks for your comments Dark Rider, yeah the calibration was tuned to get it closer to the CIE values and I do have concerns the colors are looking washed out (especially the yellow that looks really weak).

I set the saturation so that the 100% red is 21% Y, as described in the http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457 document, section 8.2 - again I was surprised it was that low.

I'll have another play, concentrating on the color luminance vs CIE accuracy.

As for the black crush, how would I spot this - using the AVS disk, basic pattern, I do see "17" and above flash, so are you saying the low black levels are so similar you can't see the difference?

It still looks great though
post #8464 of 9206
Kal's guide is a good one, and was my first intro to calibration as well. As you know with HCFR, all of the controls seem foreign (especially at first), and without Kal's guide, I would've been lost! Since then, I've gained valuable insight from Kal, Tom Huffman, and Derek (Spectracal), as well as many other well regarded calibrators on this forum such as D-Nice. That said, I've come to learn that every calibrator has their own starting points, workflows, techniques, and methods. It's as much art as it is science, especially with so many differences among displays. I've certainly borrowed from all of them in my methodology, as there are so many different ways to get similar measured results.

The luminance/saturation tradeoff is especially important with the pro8100, because it only really has a 2D CMS (Saturation and Hue) for each color, but no individual control for Luminance. When you dial both Saturation (DeltaC) and Hue (DeltaH) to the closest CIE measurement, it ends up giving you a greater variation for luminance (DeltaL) that can't be adjusted separately, so what you need to do is find a balance giving DeltaL preference for the primaries, followed by a balance between DeltaC and DeltaH. I think you are going to see better secondary results using this method, and doing so will definitely give you the best real world content results!

As far as the black crush is concerned, it's really best observed in real world content rather than using IRE color bars. Unless you have 1% stepping rather than 10% stepping, there is just too much variance between the bars to tell whether you're crushing blacks using the AVS patterns. Don't get me wrong, your calibration using BTB as the starting point is likely very good, since it has been specifically calibrated with that as the starting point. I'd just venture a guess that it will be slightly better if you use Normal as the starting point next go round. That's just something I picked up in my own trial and error with our pj. BTW, it's good to see another calibrator with the same unit. Having multiple sets of calibration results will give other users more choices, which is always a good thing!
post #8465 of 9206
I noticed that when I get the nanny message about the bulb on initial power up, I also get the flashing red LED for "lamp error".

Anyone else get this?
post #8466 of 9206
73shark, I've got the warning message that the lamp is nearing the end of its usable life, but do not have the blinking red led. Does everything else appear to be normal? Have you tried removing/inspecting the lamp and reseating it? How many hours do you have on the lamp and what mode are you running?
post #8467 of 9206
I didn't have the blinking red LED initially either. It goes away shortly after the warning msg goes away and everything seems normal so haven't messed w/ it. If it's not broke, don't fix it. We'll see what happens. Have had the red LED on occasion in the past but nothing ever developed.

Have a little over 2,000 hrs in Eco mode. Still plenty bright.

Not sure why the warning comes on at 2,000 hrs since they advertise 3-4K on Normal as lamp life.
post #8468 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73shark View Post

I didn't have the blinking red LED initially either. It goes away shortly after the warning msg goes away and everything seems normal so haven't messed w/ it. If it's not broke, don't fix it. We'll see what happens. Have had the red LED on occasion in the past but nothing ever developed.

Have a little over 2,000 hrs in Eco mode. Still plenty bright.

Not sure why the warning comes on at 2,000 hrs since they advertise 3-4K on Normal as lamp life.

I think that if any input is set on anything but ECO, it triggers the nag message at 2000 or so hours ..
post #8469 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

I think that if any input is set on anything but ECO, it triggers the nag message at 2000 or so hours ..

I'll check the other inputs. I thought that the Normal/Eco mode was across the board tho.
post #8470 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by 73shark View Post

I'll check the other inputs. I thought that the Normal/Eco mode was across the board tho.

I'd have to dig out the manual, however, I don't think the default setting on all inputs is ECO ..
post #8471 of 9206
I checked all inputs last nite and they were all on Eco.
post #8472 of 9206
I am interested in a refurbished unit. How long would it take to determine if the projector is suffering from the vertical banding problem that some of these have? Is there a set of serial numbers or build dates that have the problem. Looks like if vertical banding is present, the only thing to do is return the unit? Thanks for your help. My Mitsubishi HC1500 is dead and looking to replace it. Tried a Optoma HD66 but it was a step down from the Mitsubishi.
post #8473 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by 257roberts View Post

I am interested in a refurbished unit. How long would it take to determine if the projector is suffering from the vertical banding problem that some of these have? Is there a set of serial numbers or build dates that have the problem. Looks like if vertical banding is present, the only thing to do is return the unit? Thanks for your help. My Mitsubishi HC1500 is dead and looking to replace it. Tried a Optoma HD66 but it was a step down from the Mitsubishi.

Could be several hours, days or weeks--or possibly not at all. I've had mine 2 years and have experienced verticle banding once(and it was really pretty minor) shortly after getting it. After that instance I made sure the power was disconnected after it went through its cool down cycle and I've never had it since.
The banding problem that has been reported extensively that is a problem with no solution is HORIZONTAL. Lots of folks have attempted to rectify that lots of different ways to no avail. I've been blessed not to have it--ever. My suggestion is to get it as long as you can return it. If it has HB that is not acceptable send it back. It's a great pj really!
Best of luck!

Ed

I believe that if you get one with the HB problem it'll show up very quickly if not immediately.
post #8474 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by 257roberts View Post

I am interested in a refurbished unit. How long would it take to determine if the projector is suffering from the vertical banding problem that some of these have? Is there a set of serial numbers or build dates that have the problem. Looks like if vertical banding is present, the only thing to do is return the unit? Thanks for your help. My Mitsubishi HC1500 is dead and looking to replace it. Tried a Optoma HD66 but it was a step down from the Mitsubishi.

Give me a call.
Reply
Reply
post #8475 of 9206
Ok, thanks for the reply.
post #8476 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by old corps View Post

Could be several hours, days or weeks--or possibly not at all. I've had mine 2 years and have experienced verticle banding once(and it was really pretty minor) shortly after getting it. After that instance I made sure the power was disconnected after it went through its cool down cycle and I've never had it since.
The banding problem that has been reported extensively that is a problem with no solution is HORIZONTAL. Lots of folks have attempted to rectify that lots of different ways to no avail. I've been blessed not to have it--ever. My suggestion is to get it as long as you can return it. If it has HB that is not acceptable send it back. It's a great pj really!
Best of luck!

Ed

I believe that if you get one with the HB problem it'll show up very quickly if not immediately.

Spot on advice. Based upon what some folks reported, they really had to look/stare hard to discern HB. Others said it was easily noted. Not sure how long it took to show up, but I think it was fairly soon.

Mine has VB but it didn't show up for a few hundred hours. Put it on a timer and never looked back. Tempted to take it off the timer to see if it's still there but then I remembered if it's not broke . . .
post #8477 of 9206
I think most of us have our units on digital timers to prevent the VB. I saw the VB once on my unit, unplugged the unit after cool down and left it overnight. After plugging it in the next day, the issue was fixed, so I ordered a digital timer on Amazon, and haven't had a single recurrence since. Mine is set to kill power to the unit from 3am - 6am daily.

In regards to HB, the newer build dates had some problems with it, but I've seen at least two newer build date units that didn't have any signs of it. The one unit I saw that did have HB, Ranger's unit, was very minor under his viewing conditions. Bulb age, screen size, calibration, etc. all have some influence over how noticeable the HB is on unit's that display it.
post #8478 of 9206
I put a digital timer on mine and never saw VB again. Mine shuts down at 1:00 a.m. - 9:00 a.m. ... plenty of time to de-charge or whatever causes it.
post #8479 of 9206
Are there any other projectors out now less than $800 new or used that will produce as nice an image as the Viewsonic? That is about my budget. The Viewsonic, supposing that I receive a unit without any problems seems hard to beat.
post #8480 of 9206
You might check the ViewSonic Pro8200 thread.
post #8481 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by 257roberts View Post

Are there any other projectors out now less than $800 new or used that will produce as nice an image as the Viewsonic? That is about my budget. The Viewsonic, supposing that I receive a unit without any problems seems hard to beat.

Go with the VS... i got mild HB and still i can live with it as the picture is freakin awesome. By the way, no one who has seen my pj sees the HB unless told about it. Take the chance.
post #8482 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by 257roberts View Post

Are there any other projectors out now less than $800 new or used that will produce as nice an image as the Viewsonic? That is about my budget. The Viewsonic, supposing that I receive a unit without any problems seems hard to beat.

The only place I know of that still has any stock on the 8100 is Multitech .. and they are refurbs .. I have a buddy that ordered one and it had the V banding .. he kept it and put it on a timer ..
post #8483 of 9206
I bought one of the refurbs from Multi-Tech. They gave me a deal too good to pass up. New lamp also. Now if get one that actually that works... I am using a 96" N8 .8 gain screen now. Throw distance is 11'. Seating distance is about 11.5'. Guess I need to repaint it white instead of the neutral gray? I have a little ambient light, white 9' ceilings but windows are darkened pretty well with blackout curtains.
post #8484 of 9206
Amazon has one from Multitech for $100 less than on Multitech's site.
post #8485 of 9206
Same price I paid with free shipping. I think I can modify my mounting plate and skip buying and installing a new mount. Lens is in the center of the projector right?
post #8486 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by 257roberts View Post

Same price I paid with free shipping. I think I can modify my mounting plate and skip buying and installing a new mount. Lens is in the center of the projector right?

Correct.
post #8487 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by 257roberts View Post

I bought one of the refurbs from Multi-Tech. They gave me a deal too good to pass up. New lamp also. Now if get one that actually that works... I am using a 96" N8 .8 gain screen now. Throw distance is 11'. Seating distance is about 11.5'. Guess I need to repaint it white instead of the neutral gray? I have a little ambient light, white 9' ceilings but windows are darkened pretty well with blackout curtains.

Good luck, hope you get a good one! The grey might be alright at that distance and size screen. It'd give you better black levels if it's bright enough. Let us know.

Ed
post #8488 of 9206
i've gotta pass along major kudos to Dark Rider for his 2200 hour settings...it's been awhile since i've been this jazzed about the performance of the pro8100.

when originally trying the 2200 hour settings, i had a problem with the 2.4 gamma giving skintones a unique glow, so i reverted back to the previous saved setting. when i recently read about the 2.4 to 2.2 and back to 2.4 trick to fix the glow, i gave it a shot and sure enough, it's like a brand new projector again.

the only tweak i made was to drop each color by 2 clicks...doesn't make a huge difference, just enough to take a very slight edge off the saturation.
post #8489 of 9206
Okay got the 8100 mounted and running. No banding that I can see. Very sharp and Cadillac controls and adjustments! Does someone have a set of calibration numbers that I could start at with a new bulb? I have downloaded the AVSHD disk and have it running. I also bought a set of blue, yellow and red filters you look through a while back, but have forgotten how you use them. The image now with just limited calibration looks kind of dull and the skin tones look too red. Blue seems too vivid also. Is it just me or do the menus of this projector seem confusing and hard to navigate? Thanks for your help and assistance! Anxious to get it somewhat adjusted and start watching movies again!
post #8490 of 9206
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1231485

Tons of good info here. Yeah, navigating the menu is kinda frustrating at 1st but you'll get used to it quickly. Sounds like you got a good 'un and a bargain as well. Congrats & enjoy!

Ed
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