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Viewsonic Pro8100 1080p Projector - Page 298

post #8911 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman2 View Post

Think this is a safe place to get the lamp from:
http://www.projectorlampsource.ca/viewsonic_pro8100_projector_bulb.html

Anyone?
post #8912 of 9206
I would definitely ask them if it's truly a "made by ViewSonic" lamp. If it is, then that's a good price. My M-wave is still going strong.
post #8913 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superman2 View Post

Anyone?

Who knows .. does it come with the housing .. ?? Is it an actual VS lamp .. ?? What's shipping / insurance and Customs duty going to run from Canada .. ??
post #8914 of 9206
Thxs. Haven't ordered it yet; but was seriously thinking about it
post #8915 of 9206
I'm approaching 3 years of use on my viewsonic pro8100 and am thinking of upgrading.

I've enjoyed the viewsonic but I have never been 100 percent happy with it.

Of course I had the issues with VB. Though that was easily solved with an outlet timer to kill the power once a day.

HB is present but varies in how noticeable it is. After 3 years I have yet to figure out a pattern. Sometimes I need to stand inches from the 100 inch screen to clearly see it. Other times its painfully obvious from as far as 10 feet.

And I never got the picture to anywhere I was 100 percent that happy with. It seems like I am constantly struggling between a bright vivid picture with wildly inconsistent color. Or a correct looking image color wise that is too dim even with all the lights off.

In addition I really would like to add 3d.

I'm leaning towards one of the current Epson models as a replacement.

Ideally I would like 5020. My current viewsonic is rear shelf mounted. And I am making use of both vertical and horizontal lens shift. So the 5020 is perfect for that reason alone as it has lens shift capability.

That said my room is not a darkened theater. I can kill all lights, have heavy curtains. But I have white walls and ceilings. My understanding is the 5020's black level advantage really requires a darkened space to be of use.

So I'm leaning towards the 3020 since its a thousand cheaper.

Is there anybody here who has gone from the pro8100 to the 3020 or 5020 that can comment?
post #8916 of 9206
How long of a throw do you have? What size screen are you using? What is the gain of the screen?

The Epsons are great using their best color modes and with short throws they are bright enough. If you have a long throw the brightness drops off dramatically.

Keep in mind too that the Epsons shift and focus controls are manual. Not a deal breaker but the Pro8100 power shift and focus has spoiled me.

Have you ever thought about getting your Pro 8100 professionally calibrated before giving up on it?
post #8917 of 9206
FWIW, the only projector I would consider upgrading to from the Pro8100 would be a JVC. The JVC X35 is my next projector. Of course I have to wait for the economy to turn around before I can afford it. Living in Rhode Island doesn't help. rolleyes.gif
post #8918 of 9206
I have a short throw. I have the viewsonic about 10 ft back from the screen to give a 100 inch image at the maximum zoom level.

I'm not sure what the gain for the screen is. It's a fairly low cost manual pull down screen in white. I've thought about going gray, but I really need a pull down screen for my installation. And it's seems like its tough to get something low cost in anything but white. (Though please correct me if I am mistaken).

I've thought about professional calibration but I just feel like the money would be better put towards another projector.

For one I really am itching to add 3d to my setup.

Second I'm not really looking for perfect image quality. I just want a reasonably bright image that basically looks correct color wise from a quick glance.

Currently I feel my image quality is just inconsistent. Very bright scenes (for the most part) look amazing. Scenes of medium brightness are the most inconsistent. Indoor scenes with character closeups often have a murky look to them with inconsistent skin tones.
Edited by Bob Benson - 3/9/13 at 2:12pm
post #8919 of 9206
With that close of a throw and screen size the Epson should work well. The 3020 is a steal for $1450 at visualapex.com. If you really want 3d, aren't extremely picky about perfect color or the best black levels, and you want a very bright image then give the 3020 a shot. I imagine if you aren't happy with it you would be able to sell it for very close to what you will pay for it.

The problem you are describing with flesh tones and such is usually caused if you or someone ever tried to use the flesh tone control in the menu. It screws something up with the calibration and causes all kinds of strange gamma and flesh tone issues. The only way I found to remove it is to restore the defaults. After you do that try some of the calibration settings found in this thread. It can't hurt to try and that may solve your problem. Of course that doesn't solve the lack of 3d problem.tongue.gif

Did you ever upgrade the firmware to fix the faulty iris issue? Do you have the iris set properly?
Edited by beekermartin - 3/9/13 at 2:23pm
post #8920 of 9206
Yes, I have messed with flesh tones setting. I believe that is under the PCS menu under user setting? Right now I'm using the PCS "on" as opposed to user or off. So even though I am using the preset setting the fact that I messed with the user setting before may have caused some issues? I will try that.

And yes I applied the firmware update for the iris. I forget where I have it set now, whatever the this thread recommended. And that was a big improvement. Though I can still notice the iris action every now and then. Though it wasn't like before when it was going crazy between every different camera angle lol.

Now that you mention pcs that was another issue I always had with the projector. I feel like the variety of options combined with the awkward layout of the menu's made the pro8100 very tough to setup for the novice.

I've thought about investing in my own color meter to try on my own to get a more accurate calibration. But then I realize I wouldn't know where to begin with separate color options available under both the user color temperature settings and individual color settings in the user pcs menu.
post #8921 of 9206
I would highly recommend that you reset to original defaults. I would then set your contrast and brightness settings using a calibration disc. I lower the color control to about 48. Sharpness to -35.

After that plug in the calibration settings listed by dark rider. You need to use PCS user mode in order for the color settings to be applied.

Try that and see how it looks.
post #8922 of 9206
Have you tried any of the available DVD calibration discs?
post #8923 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Benson View Post

Yes, I have messed with flesh tones setting. I believe that is under the PCS menu under user setting? Right now I'm using the PCS "on" as opposed to user or off. So even though I am using the preset setting the fact that I messed with the user setting before may have caused some issues? I will try that.

And yes I applied the firmware update for the iris. I forget where I have it set now, whatever the this thread recommended. And that was a big improvement. Though I can still notice the iris action every now and then. Though it wasn't like before when it was going crazy between every different camera angle lol.

Now that you mention pcs that was another issue I always had with the projector. I feel like the variety of options combined with the awkward layout of the menu's made the pro8100 very tough to setup for the novice.

I've thought about investing in my own color meter to try on my own to get a more accurate calibration. But then I realize I wouldn't know where to begin with separate color options available under both the user color temperature settings and individual color settings in the user pcs menu.

Unless you are willing to do what it takes to get a PJ properly dialed in, it is unlikely you will find any unit that will be 100% satisfactory .. that's the nature of the Home Projector Lifestyle, unfortunately .. I find the 8100's menu layout to be fine .. after, of course, increasing the timeout default ..

These things have a learning curve .. that's just the way it is ..
post #8924 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Benson View Post

Yes, I have messed with flesh tones setting. I believe that is under the PCS menu under user setting? Right now I'm using the PCS "on" as opposed to user or off. So even though I am using the preset setting the fact that I messed with the user setting before may have caused some issues? I will try that.

And yes I applied the firmware update for the iris. I forget where I have it set now, whatever the this thread recommended. And that was a big improvement. Though I can still notice the iris action every now and then. Though it wasn't like before when it was going crazy between every different camera angle lol.

Now that you mention pcs that was another issue I always had with the projector. I feel like the variety of options combined with the awkward layout of the menu's made the pro8100 very tough to setup for the novice.

I've thought about investing in my own color meter to try on my own to get a more accurate calibration. But then I realize I wouldn't know where to begin with separate color options available under both the user color temperature settings and individual color settings in the user pcs menu.

Bob-See my reply in the under 3K thread.

Ed
post #8925 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkdragn View Post

Unless you are willing to do what it takes to get a PJ properly dialed in, it is unlikely you will find any unit that will be 100% satisfactory .. that's the nature of the Home Projector Lifestyle, unfortunately .. I find the 8100's menu layout to be fine .. after, of course, increasing the timeout default ..

These things have a learning curve .. that's just the way it is ..

The 8100 is my 4th projector in 12 years. And you're right you are never going to be 100 percent satisfied. I usually shoot for about 80 to 90 percent satisfied and I feel I was only ever about 70 percent satisfied with the 8100.

And believe me I've tried just about every combination of color temperature setting from this thread as well as other reviews. I've gotten the gray scale and color temperature to be pretty accurate (in my opinion) using those settings. But then the image gets too dim to be pleasing.

I feel like part of the problem is I run the lamp in normal whereas I think most people are basing there settings on the lamp in eco. My understanding is the color temperature is very different between the two lamp modes.

But I don't want anyone to think I am badmouthing the projector. Its feature set for what I paid is still a decent deal. The primary reason I have the upgrade bug is for 3d.

And when the picture quality matches well with the source material it puts out a stunning image. I was rewatching Revenge of the Sith the other night and for whatever reason the color palate matched my setup quite well and it was stunning.

But then last night I watched the Master which looked amazing in the theater. But on my setup it was "meh". Apart from some of the scenes set in the salt flats and desert which were stunning.

Mainly I'm looking for opinions on whether my choices might fit with the things I was not happy with in regards to the 8100.
post #8926 of 9206
Again, I HIGHLY recommend that you reset everything to defaults and recalibrate. Write down your current settings if you think they are close to accurate.

In order for the changes made in the color PCS menu to apply you have to select PCS user mode. Otherwise those changes will not effect the image. Also I recommend leaving the detail in PCS set to 0. Anything above 2 and I see a lot of noise in most sources. Leaving it at 0 gives the best image quality in my setup.

After you reset everything to the original defaults and recailbrate don't touch the skin tone setting. There is some strange quirk with that setting that causing all kinds of stange issues. Just don't touch it and you should be ok. Once you touch it once you have to start over. At least with my Pro8100 that is the case. I was getting some extremely strange gamma/flesh tone issue. Even after I set the fleshtone setting back to stock they didn't go away. I had to reset to defaults and start over to correct the issue.

I am overall very happy with my Pro8100. My main wish with my next projector is better black levels without the use of an iris and one that can handle an 18' throw without being too dim. The only projector that is remotely affordable that doesn't use an iris and offers better black levels than the Pro8100 and has power lens control is the JVC X30/x35. I would consider the Epsons but I gave up on them with my throw after trying the 720p version and then the 1080 non UB version before I got the Pro8100. They were WAY to dim in their best modes once calibrated remotely close to accurate. In their brightest modes they were bright enough but they were unwatchable in my opinion. Of course I am talking about projectors from @5 years ago but from the reviews I've read even the newest version don't handle a long throw without dimming significantly. With your throw I imagine the 3020 will work well.

Let us know how you make out once you recalibrate. It sounds like you have your heart set on upgrading. I've been there many times and I know whats it like. With your setup and if it was me I would give the 3020 a shot. What do you have to lose at the incredible price you can get one for???
post #8927 of 9206
I forgot to ask this important question... How many hours do you have on your lamp???

I have @800+ hours and I have ran mine at @50/50 low/normal mode. For most movie watching in the dark low is fine. For playing the Wii with friends or watching sports with ambient light Normal is required. I have noticed some lost in brightness now that I have @800 hours on mine. It is stil adequate but not as bright as when it was new. I will probably order a new lamp soon just to get back to the orginal brightness level before I upgrade. I would love to upgrade sooner but I don't think I'll have the means anytime soon. This year I need to replace my roof and maybe the HVAC system as well. After all I am happy home owner in one of the worst states to own a home. Ohh well!!!!
post #8928 of 9206
I'm at 850 plus hours all on normal.

Although I'm sure the lamp has faded since zero hours honestly I can't tell the difference. It is still very bright; when I have the picture set for an image that gives a lot of "pop".

I did play around with it last night out of curiosity. But honestly I just got it back to where it was.

This is where it basically is picture quality wise:

I am using dark rider's color temp settings and picture settings (though adjusted slightly using calibration patterns and my own personal preference).

I used his PCS settings.

This produced an image that looked correct. As far as shadow detail, skin tone color accuracy. But the image lacks any pop or vibrancy and seems slightly dim compared to what the projector is capable of putting out.

Now if I set back to "PCS on", the default setting, the image has more vibrancy pop etc. But then the color accuracy seems to vary too much scene to scene. I wind up turning down saturation in picture setting to compensate. Most scenes look correct but some take on a desaturated look.

I really am not looking for perfection. I do tend to tinker with the picture a bit as I think we all do but I'm not the type to fret over whether the image is "natural" or "film like". I really am just looking for something pleasing.

And for whatever reason my unit combined with my installation it seems like a struggle to get it dialed in where I like it. Plus my unit is plagued by HB. It comes and goes but its seriously annoying. I didn't notice as much until I moved from an 84 inch screen to 100 inch screen. And unfortunately now there isn't much I can do about it.

When I picked up the pro8100 I was upgrading from a 720p dlp unit. The main idea was to upgrade to 1080p and larger screen size. But I saw it as stop gap solution until there were decent 3d solutions available in the entry to mid range models.
Edited by Bob Benson - 3/10/13 at 9:16am
post #8929 of 9206
Maybe you happen to like an exceptionally bright image. Unfortunately there aren't many projectors that are brighter than the Pro8100 once properly calibrated. If you read some reviews on projectoreviews.com you will see what I mean. Most of the affordable projectors are acutally dimmer than the Pro8100 in their best modes once calibrated.

When I had the Epson projectors before the Pro8100 their best modes were unusable because they were so dim. Their brightest modes were bright but the colors were horrible. The newest Epsons are better in that aspect. They still wouldn't work with my long throw but they might work well in your setup.

Regardless any projector you get really needs to be properly calibrated to get the most out of it. Read some reviews and try to find the brightest properly calibrated projector within your budget. Projectorreviews.com does an excellent job reviewing projectors.
post #8930 of 9206
I'm not sure I would say I like an "exceptionally" bright image. I've had a couple popular bright dlp projectors I've had to dial down the brightness because the best picture modes produced too much brightness.

Perhaps my description of the picture being "dim" when properly calibrated was not the correct phrasing.

I feel like a "correct" looking image on the projector removes all vibrancy to colors and reduces contrast too much.

You are right that proper calibration might help. But I would rather not invest in professional calibration. I would much prefer my own color meter so I could tune the color to a basically correct state but then continue to make adjustments to my personal preference.

But then I feel the 8100 is not suited to a home calibration novice because of the way the color settings are adjusted in both the color temperature menu and PCS menu settings.
post #8931 of 9206
I've been wanting to properly calibrate my Pro8100 for years but I never seem to get around to it. I have an Eye One light meter. It is far from the best but it should at least get me in the ball park. Unfortunately the learning curve with calibration software is tedious and I don't have that much free time. Hopefully I will find the time soon.
post #8932 of 9206
Disney's WOW cal DVD and the DVE HD Basic DVE cal DVD are relatively easy to use and a novice like me that still hasn't figured out the Pro8100's user memory feature got significant improvement using them.

I believe there's also a downloadable cal DVD on this forum.
post #8933 of 9206
I took some pics of what I am seeing. Though take them with a grain of salt. They are just from an iphone (I don't take a lot of pics) and I did not have my living room totally dark.

Right now I am using dark rider's color temp settings. I set the user pcs to his color setting, but I keep going back to the default pcs settings as I lose too much vibrancy in the image.

I have two sets of images. The first image in each set is with the default pcs on setting. The second is with the user pcs setting using dark rider's settings.

The pics; especially the boat scene make whites appear a little blow out. But that is just the camera.

The biggest thing the pic's show in my opinion; is in the character closeup of the second shot skin tones are too red. Which I have only been able to correct by desaturating the picture. Which is below what the color bars have me set the pic at using my color strip. And the red skin tones are in consistent. In some scenes skin tones are spot on. And this is after having done a full reset so they have not been altered by messing with the skin tone function in the pcs menu.

Anyway:




post #8934 of 9206
Are you using Dark Riders most recent settings using a gamma of 2.4? If so try his older 2.2 gamma settings and see hows those look. Also give Rangers settings in the begining of the thread a shot as well.

All of this talk about calibrating the Pro8100 has got me thinking it is time for me to calibrate mine. I am going to attempt it sometime this week. I have about the same amount of hours on my lamp as you. Once I calibrate mine I will post my settings. Maybe they will work for you as well.
post #8935 of 9206
I believe I'm using his 2.2 gamma settings. I will look for the 2.4 settings and try those. And I would check out your post calibration settings as well. Thanks.
post #8936 of 9206
Bob Benson .. are you searching for a new PJ or are you wanting help with your existing 8100 .. ?? I'm a little confused at this point ..

My viewing of "Master" on my 8100 was not even close to what you have in your screen shots .. in fact, I told my wife after suffering thru this POS film that it's only redeeming quality was the outstanding PQ .. it was obviously filmed in digital .. and the photographers use of light, texture and closeup work was simply outstanding .. if my PQ was even close to what you are showing, I would have moved on years ago ..

As well, your comments on inconsistencies of PQ based on the source has me scratching my head .. since a directors or photographers vision is not going to be the same and changes each time you view something different .. IOW, it would be impossible to make every source look exactly the same since they were not created exactly the same ..

Not trying to take you to task here, just curious if you've taken that into consideration ..
post #8937 of 9206
I was mainly looking for comment from 8100 owners who have upgraded already. I figure that most of the 8100 owners in this thread bought at least 3 years ago just like me; so I probably am not the only one looking to upgrade.

That said since other members had suggestions on how to improve the results I am getting with the 8100 I am more then willing to try a few. It may be several months before I finally decide on a replacement unit anyway and I will be using my 8100 regularly until then.

Actually the Master was filmed in 70mm. The first studio picture in a long time that has been. And it looked spectacular in theaters.

I do realize each film will have its own unique look and some will look better then others. That said I feel many films that should have good picture quality, ie the Master, look unspectacular on my setup as its configured now. Films with a more neutral to a blue tint look great, for example the Star Wars prequels (no comment as to the films quality though). Films with a warmer palate look so so.

The screenshots I provided I hope illustrate the problems I am having. The biggest is that skin tones often are overly red. I wind up having to turn down the saturation (below where calibrations disks tell me to set it based on patterns) which wind up giving films a desaturated look.
post #8938 of 9206
^^^ I'd consider turning off PCS then ..
post #8939 of 9206
The problem with just setting it to off is too much vibrancy and contrast is lost from the picture.

Should I try someone's color temp settings other then Dark Rider? Because he is including individual color settings in the PCS menu. That makes me think I should be trying the color temp settings of someone who calibrated with PCS just set to off.
post #8940 of 9206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Benson View Post

The problem with just setting it to off is too much vibrancy and contrast is lost from the picture.

Should I try someone's color temp settings other then Dark Rider? Because he is including individual color settings in the PCS menu. That makes me think I should be trying the color temp settings of someone who calibrated with PCS just set to off.

On mine, I find that turning PCS off and doing a few tweeks on the picture provides a good balance of realism and sharpness .. on material that needs that little extra color saturation, I turn it back on ..

If you are looking for selective settings based on the source material .. which it seems to me you are ..
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