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Show us your screenshots!! - Page 8

post #211 of 2893
11/18/07 at 7:57pm
Why dial down your ANSI intentionally? Killer ANSI in large part is a major benefit for going to C3X IMO and the ND is at best a short term solution as it will rob you of ANSI although your blacks and perceived contrast should be somewhat improved. Seems like Sim2 is showing quite a lot with the Firehawk G3 and Stewart is pushing this as a very good option with multichip DLP at this point as well. When both Stewart and the Sim engineers and marketing folks are hot on the FH you may want to consider that material also although it is higher gain. What are you shooting for in FtL Mark? Don't forget you'll have an iris to work with. BTW, does anyone know if the iris is separate or integrated as part of the bulb level adjustment setting?
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post #212 of 2893
11/18/07 at 9:03pm
I don't know. Since no one has the nachine yet especially with any wear on the bulb, we reallyl don't know anything. At some point the ft lamberts could be too high. My screen is only 36 sq ft. Who knows what the ref black level would be with that screen size and gain? How many ft lambets would be too high. 30? 40? Lets conservatively assume 1000 ANSI lumens would be the average scene. Suppose the ANSIs are higher? At 1000, we are talking 37 ft-lamberts in a black pit theater. Hell the theater will be lit by all that light bouncing off the screen. I'd like the black reference to be below .01. I'd settle for about 20 ft lamberts if I could get great blacks. Who knows anyhing about being able to employ an iris with that machine as the equivalent to a throttle plate restrictor. A DC4 chip machine with high ANSI will not have fantastic blacks without some help. Unlike Art, I am not willing to sacrifice good blacks despite all the other positives. The gray hawk will substantially improve the black reference level. Sreen gain is not needed in my new set up. Anti gain is called for. Anything that reduces the black ref level such as a screen gain less than 1, an Iris, a ND filter will help. There still should be sufficient ANSI to punch the bright scenes. I'll let you know what Don says.
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post #213 of 2893
11/18/07 at 9:08pm
Mark,

ND filters seem to get a bad rap. I actually prefer my 15S1 with a .8 gain grey screen and an ND filter versus either or, or none. Perceived contrast seems to be a good thing for me.

If you like your blacks black, youre gonna need both .. and then some. 8) Maybe an ND4, even.
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post #214 of 2893
11/18/07 at 9:23pm
Is the C3X 1080p supposed to have a dynamic iris? 8) Nice, if so. 8)
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post #215 of 2893
11/18/07 at 9:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Art. I am switching to the Sim2 C3x 1080p. I am concerned that on my Studeotech 130 110' 16:9 things may be too bright. I may change out my screen fabric to the new Grey Hawk to tone down the brightness and improve the blacks. I am going to talk to Don Stewart about this as I don't want the stuff in the middle to look strange. A ND filter might be a better way to go. What do you guys think?

I don't think it will be too bright on your 110 foot screen at all.

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post #216 of 2893
11/18/07 at 11:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Art. I am switching to the Sim2 C3x 1080p. I am concerned that on my Studeotech 130 110' 16:9 things may be too bright. I may change out my screen fabric to the new Grey Hawk to tone down the brightness and improve the blacks. I am going to talk to Don Stewart about this as I don't want the stuff in the middle to look strange. A ND filter might be a better way to go. What do you guys think?

Mark,
At least the ND filter gives you the option of taking it off as the lamp ages. If you end up with 35fL or something no doubt you may want to tone it down.

Art
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post #217 of 2893
11/19/07 at 12:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I don't know. Since no one has the nachine yet especially with any wear on the bulb, we reallyl don't know anything. At some point the ft lamberts could be too high. My screen is only 36 sq ft. Who knows what the ref black level would be with that screen size and gain? How many ft lambets would be too high. 30? 40? Lets conservatively assume 1000 ANSI lumens would be the average scene. Suppose the ANSIs are higher? At 1000, we are talking 37 ft-lamberts in a black pit theater. Hell the theater will be lit by all that light bouncing off the screen. I'd like the black reference to be below .01. I'd settle for about 20 ft lamberts if I could get great blacks. Who knows anyhing about being able to employ an iris with that machine as the equivalent to a throttle plate restrictor. A DC4 chip machine with high ANSI will not have fantastic blacks without some help. Unlike Art, I am not willing to sacrifice good blacks despite all the other positives. The gray hawk will substantially improve the black reference level. Sreen gain is not needed in my new set up. Anti gain is called for. Anything that reduces the black ref level such as a screen gain less than 1, an Iris, a ND filter will help. There still should be sufficient ANSI to punch the bright scenes. I'll let you know what Don says.


Also you might talk to odessey on the 20K forum .He has modified digital cinema units with custom irids. Otherwise I'd agree you will have too much light at least initially. I also will argue that I do have good blacks but not great anymore.

Art
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post #218 of 2893
11/19/07 at 4:43am
Quote:


I also will argue that I do have good blacks but not great anymore.

We can tell. You're posting at 3am rather than movie watching.
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post #219 of 2893
11/19/07 at 4:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Sonneborn View Post

Also you might talk to odessey on the 20K forum .He has modified digital cinema units with custom irids. Otherwise I'd agree you will have too much light at least initially. I also will argue that I do have good blacks but not great anymore.

Art

Art, once the DC4 upgrade is available on the 5000 in a matter of months, you should be sittin' pretty.

I'm not sure a gray screen is the answer, but if I do get the C3X I'm screwed since we just installed an HP with 2.8 gain to help out the Ruby. Perhaps I should wait for the VW200 instead to come out as it will be sufficiently dim for my screen?

I guess too many lumens is a good problem to have, no?
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post #220 of 2893
11/19/07 at 5:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Art. I am switching to the Sim2 C3x 1080p. I am concerned that on my Studeotech 130 110' 16:9 things may be too bright. I may change out my screen fabric to the new Grey Hawk to tone down the brightness and improve the blacks. I am going to talk to Don Stewart about this as I don't want the stuff in the middle to look strange. A ND filter might be a better way to go. What do you guys think?

110'? I'll assume you meant 110". Sounds like a big mismatch and complete waste of money IMO.
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post #221 of 2893
11/19/07 at 5:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Catdaddy67 View Post

Is the C3X 1080p supposed to have a dynamic iris? 8) Nice, if so. 8)

No dynamic iris. Sim2 however are releasing another industry first with this machine...DIS or Dynamic Iris Simulator. When you want to watch a movie you call Sim and they send round a guy who uses a piece of card in front of the machine and blacks out the image at totally random points, he also makes loud mechanical humming noises, usually at important dialog points. If you take this high cost option, it does come with a 100% guaranteed to wreck the image and is therefore a perfect simulation of a real Dynamic Iris.
This new system was recently developed in secret by well known Italian scientist Dr Mario Cumstein



PS despite early reports to the contrary there is no iris control.
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post #222 of 2893
11/19/07 at 5:33am
No it isn't a good problem. Its like being single and having too many intimate girl friends It sounds nice but problems arise.

Art. I think great blacks are a CRT attribute. Anything less than CRT levels can range from good on down. RS1 or RS2 levels to me are good, not great, but I suppose great for non CRT. Sim2 black levels are less than good compared to a RS1 or RS2. Its terminology. Your blacks are good but not great for a digital.

The bigger the screen, the more lumens one needs. The biggest problem with high lumens is black reference levels.

And if you can afford a C3x at the current street price, you can afford to toss your HP. better yet, have TRYG sell it for you.

I have a 130 but given the money I'm spending on the C3x, replacing the material is a trivial expense.

What's wrong with using a high quality ND filter? What'sthe down side? I am sure there must be one.
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post #223 of 2893
11/19/07 at 5:44am
Yea. A 110" D. Only Art will have a 110' D if he someday buys a new house and puts in a decent size (for Art) home theater. Something that can hold say 300 party guests.

Waste of money?. A few years ago one spent $15K on a projector. Now even at the new higher list price, one can buy a C3x for under $20K. I suppose I could buy a single chipper with the color wheels etc. Or waste my money on buying a Sim2 three chipper eh? Its too bright, but the brightness can be toned down. You can't eliminate color wheel colors and other problems. Color wheels are a tragic compromise. A joke solution in my opinion. You change the wheel to fix one short coming and introduce others. One manfacturer offers three different wheels for one consumer projector. The consumer can choose better contrast, colors, or brightness depending on the wheel selected.
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post #224 of 2893
11/19/07 at 6:17am
Yes, considering you can demo it when you move on to your next projector Mark I think its not a too bad idea to do C3X 1080p, if you are rainbow sensitive. Art is right that you can always take the ND filter off if you need to get more brightness.

Someone mentioned that they measured ANSI CR reduction at 5 to 10% because of an ND filter. There might be a reduction there but there definitely is an increase in "perceived contrast" because of the lower black level. Even Greg references this in his posts in the comparison thread.

Its definitely a good idea, specially considering its the most price friendly and easiest to remove option.

Quote:


Dynamic Iris Simulator

CM, that definitely sounds like something I could be interested in if they sent over a topless bikini model to randomly insert the black frames. Im sure the picture quality would look real good at that point. 8)
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post #225 of 2893
11/19/07 at 6:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Erskine View Post

We can tell. You're posting at 3am rather than movie watching.

Woke up with too much happening for me. Usually, if I get up and make a list of the things I need to deal with, that woke me up, it lets me sleep but not this time. So I get on line and read about stuff that really doesn't matter at all to help me forget.

Art
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post #226 of 2893
11/19/07 at 6:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by owl1 View Post

Art, once the DC4 upgrade is available on the 5000 in a matter of months, you should be sittin' pretty.

I'm not sure a gray screen is the answer, but if I do get the C3X I'm screwed since we just installed an HP with 2.8 gain to help out the Ruby. Perhaps I should wait for the VW200 instead to come out as it will be sufficiently dim for my screen?

I guess too many lumens is a good problem to have, no?

Yea, it should set me for another year. Too many lumens is like being too pretty.

Art
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post #227 of 2893
11/19/07 at 6:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

Art. I think great blacks are a CRT attribute. Anything less than CRT levels can range from good on down. RS1 or RS2 levels to me are good, not great, but I suppose great for non CRT. Sim2 black levels are less than good compared to a RS1 or RS2. Its terminology. Your blacks are good but not great for a digital.


Absolutely correct but the RS1 can't touch the HT 5000 let alone the c3x 1080 in intrascene contrast. The whole reason three chip DLP looks so much more punchy and 3D compared to the best LCoS or SXRD even at the same fL.I watched the RS1 in my theater enough to be sure it wasn't for me despite the higher on /off.

With that size screen, judging from your posts, it looks like you would be better served with a JVC.

I've got about a hundred hours of critical viewing on my system and just subjectively it has a superior image to any CRT set up I've seen except in just a few percent of images. Being a CRTer you know exactly what those are. I spent two weeks sitting with the HT 5000 in my theater and went head to head against my stack and after I sent it back it took me longer than that to be OK with my CRTs.
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post #228 of 2893
11/19/07 at 7:01am
I don't think the RS1 or 2 would be bright enough. I am sure I could get an RS2 for a little over $5K but it really wouldn't justify getting rid of my CRT. It couldn't work for you Art anyway. It would have ben way too dim on your new screen. It should have been a non starter. Maybe a RS2 stack but the convergence anf lens issues would rule that out for me and for only a little more for me, a c3x seems a better solution. I can pick up a piece of gray hawk fabric for my 4 way masked screen for less than $500.
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post #229 of 2893
11/19/07 at 7:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I don't think the RS1 or 2 would be bright enough. I am sure I could get an RS2 for a little over $5K but it really wouldn't justify getting rid of my CRT. It couldn't work for you Art anyway. It would have ben way too dim on your new screen. It should have been a non starter. Maybe a RS2 stack but the convergence anf lens issues would rule that out for me and for only a little more for me, a c3x seems a better solution. I can pick up a piece of gray hawk fabric for my 4 way masked screen for less than $500.

You don't think an RS1 is bright enough for a 110" wide screen,talk to Tryg. You could get 20fL unless you want AT options or off axis seating.

Art
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post #230 of 2893
11/19/07 at 7:47am
The latter posts in this thread have been very helpful for my understanding/learning, thanks!
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post #231 of 2893
11/19/07 at 8:51am
I'm pulling this over just because it is my favorite.


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post #232 of 2893
11/19/07 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark haflich View Post

I don't think the RS1 or 2 would be bright enough.

For a 110" ST130 screen?!?!?!?
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post #233 of 2893
11/19/07 at 10:13am
Coming from a CRT thats gotta be pretty damn bright, Mark. 8)

It should be way brighter than Art's or Cliffy's stacks.
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post #234 of 2893
11/19/07 at 2:32pm
Funny how that screenshot now seems out of place in this thread...
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post #235 of 2893
11/19/07 at 3:58pm
Yeal I guess if I got D65 average screen lighting of 500 ANSI I would have 20 ft lamberts. If 350 were the number that would be about 14 ft lamberts or about twice what I am getting now. Maybe I should get an RS2 to screw around with. I am going to be flooded with play arounds. A HT380, an C3x 1080p, a vpl-vw60, a vpl-vw200, and an RS2. Is an RS2 worth $2K more street than an RS1? To me only if the lens is better.
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post #236 of 2893
11/19/07 at 4:11pm
Hopefully everyone will have some input here. What are the keys to getting good screenshots?
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post #237 of 2893
11/19/07 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobZ View Post

Hopefully everyone will have some input here. What are the keys to getting good screenshots?

For me it was a tripod, a few camera purchases until I found one that could capture good shots.

Shutter speed plays a big role I think in a lot of camera's. For me, it's pretty easy. Depending on the scene, I choose "nightmode" to take my shots. I have a Kodak easy share Z740. It's worked out very well other than I do get white crush at times........

Art and Clarence have SLR camera's that are leaps and bounds above my lowly Kodak.

Cliff
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post #238 of 2893
11/19/07 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobZ View Post

What are the keys to getting good screenshots?

Unfortunately, bring your camera over to Cliff's house!

I'm still in awe from the HT meet last weekend.

Thanks again Cliff.
Jason
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post #239 of 2893
11/19/07 at 5:40pm
i really like your screen shots. so far they are the best. with a set up like that i know you're satisfied with your rs1?

Quote:
Originally Posted by overclkr View Post

For me it was a tripod, a few camera purchases until I found one that could capture good shots.

Shutter speed plays a big role I think in a lot of camera's. For me, it's pretty easy. Depending on the scene, I choose "nightmode" to take my shots. I have a Kodak easy share Z740. It's worked out very well other than I do get white crush at times........

Art and Clarence have SLR camera's that are leaps and bounds above my lowly Kodak.

Cliff
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post #240 of 2893
11/19/07 at 6:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Falejczyk View Post

Unfortunately, bring your camera over to Cliff's house!

I'm still in awe from the HT meet last weekend.

Thanks again Cliff.
Jason


Nah.....how good could a couple of G90's look? I prefer my blacks to be nice and bright! What good are blacks on the screen if you can't see them?
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