HD Disk (HD-DVD and Blu-Ray) EE and DNR list - Page 5

So do you think the Robocop BRD (2nd one) deserves to be on the DNR list or is it just soft?

The 1st release probably had EE but we don't have any screen captures and only a handful of people saw it. I bet it looked like the broadcast version though, which has EE.


Barely noticable? The bird sculpture in the boardroom shot has a big ass halo around it.

I have not seen this one. For myself I need to see motion to detect NR. Hard to tell looking at static images. Those images look fine to me.
The titles I am mentioning have excessive EE. Impossible to miss

I am guessing it is seen as an advantage , their product looks sharper on the smaller monitors on display at the stores until we get it home and pop it up on the big screen.
Joe Kane himself has mentioned the monitors they are using for authoring are to small. He wants them to start using projection but with the excuses we are getting on this topic I doubt we will ever see that happen.
I would say most here on the forum ether hate EE or tolerate it but all would benefit its demise even those with the smallest of displays.
It is a shame there is no standard. For the most part we are talking only a few studios who repeatedly depend on this practice.
Reading the insider thread everything seams positive and wonderful but then we have the few studios further down the chain putting out sub par content that counters the enthusiasm in the Insider thread.
I seams no one knows what the other is doing or has any authority which explains the large quality control issue between transfers and the use of heavy edge enhancement and or NR.
If Studio A can repeatedly put out older titles & new titles without the use of EE then it becomes clear it is a man made injected artifact sadly ruining what HD is all about. The sooner they rid of this practice the better the format will progress and be accepted by all not just those with tiny TVs. It is not needed, this is HD

We are very aware of what Joe is trying to do, since we asked him to put together the demonstrations on his projector for studio execs to appreciate what great video is all about . These are some of the behind the scenes things we are trying to do. The demonstrations have been very effective but I don't know about the final outcome.

I joked about this with Bjoern Roy back in the DVD days - give those people who want all the nasty things we hate appropriate options on their equipment and be done.

To try to cater to those who prefer an immensly processed image I suggest to add three buttons on their remote:

- clean picture: Adds DNR
- sharp picture: Adds EE
- fill the screen: zooms into picture and removes black bars from all movies wider than the academy ratio, also removes sidebars from 4:3 content

And now the studios should just try to make movies look like film on HDM, even if they are older than a year or two.

Of the last 15 non-animated movies I watched on HDM 5 had very obstrusive processing, mostly both DNR and EE related and three of these movies I did not even finish because of it. This is hardly better than what I was used to with DVD.

This is probably meaningless to joe six pack but is it possible to put real time filtering on hd and blu players?

By doing it this way, there's no need to re-encode the movie. Just have an "unfilter" option...put an educational featurette about DNR (and other nonsense) on the disc.

Average user plays the DNR'd version and people that care can undo it, without needing a second encode on the disc.

DNR can take a lot of cpu power to pull off in real time if you want "good" results, like with ffdshow.

If I'm not mistaken don't some players have a NR feature?

This talk reminds me of the "soft picture" mode on some Pioneer LaserDisc players back in the day, which was included to compensate for folks used to VHS who felt that LD images were "too sharp"!

Vincent

Do we have any screenshot to confirm that?

I haven't seen the HD DVD/BD yet (I don't like the movie), but folks at HTF are also reporting distracting DNR on Eyes Wide Shut.

WB has done this to far too many DVDs. Apparently, the "this DNR dial goes to eleven" techs are working in the HD division as well...

I watched my Blu-ray copy of Scary Movie the other day, and it has some of the worst DNR that I have ever seen. It got some good reviews because it has the "pop" that many are looking for, but small details are either completely missing or go in-and-out because of the terrible filtering. This definitely belongs on the list.

Title: Scary Movie
Studio: Disney
Disc: Blu-ray
Problem: DNR
Time Codes: Whole movie
Comments: Everything looks smooth and wax-like. Small facial details are nonexistent, and other details such as clothing patterns are either completely filtered-out or continually pop in and out of the picture.

It's starting to look like a smaller list to maintain would be "films WITHOUT EE and DNR"?

Mark

It seems like 3 Studios are behind most of these problems: Warner, Universal and to a lesser extent Paramount. If we could get them to stop using really old transfers then I think HDM will be on the right track.

yes.

T3 on BD seems to be a 1080i encode...

Im not 100% sure it really is EE on the Simpsons. It resembles compression artifacts that usually can happens on edges.

But as I said, im not sure.

EDIT

By closer look at it, I would say the screencaps shows both EE and Artifacts. But this wasnt something I saw during the movie. (I didnt look for it either)

i think the two big pictures at the bottom of the linked site are showing mostly compression/scaling artefacts. But if you open one of the full screenshots and look at them at 100%, it looks like EE to me. I would love to be proven wrong here tbh, i am really looking forward to this film and i hate EE.

Are we expecting Pan's Labyrinth to enter the DNR-ed list ?

The Simsons does not have any EE. Its flawless. I am not doubting people have systems that adds EE. My system does not and that movie is about as EE free as the best of them. Anyone saying the Simpsons has EE should be seeing EE on a ton of others far more so and reporting them as their system is coloring what they are seeing.
I am watching this one at 8 feet wide and I can even turn up my sharpness on this one which even then adds no ringing.

Thanks for the info Alan! You make me a happy camper.

The best place to show off ringing are bright scenes with letters.
Here are few caps, 8 feet wide and Im zooming in on the image.
Just for the record Im going 24 out of the pioneer HD1 into the Crystalio 3400 24 out to the Sony VW200.
The Crystalio has been reported to add some ringing according to Greg Rogers review and still at 8 feet wide there is still no ringing. If I use my Lumagen with its no ring scaling this is as smooth as butter.
People reporting ringing on this title I have no doubt they are seeing what they are seeing but it is being introduced somewhere in their video chain.

Those same people reporting this title should really be seeing ringing far worse on many other titles that are boarder full of EE that they are not complaining about. Makes you wonder the agenda


Same image with my projectors sharpness set to full



Same image with my projectors sharpness set to full



Same image with my projectors sharpness set to full


Here you can see I can replicate the same ringing in the pictures the few posted by turning up my sharpness and putting it on full something no one whould ever do or should do
Even with my sharpness on full on most scenes is still hard to see and remember I am zooming in on an 8 foot image for these. At normal viewing and on a smaller display you would never see it. Rest assured this is a great transfer.
So those who are seeing ringing it is their own fault or their systems fault.

And to rap this up here is what someone posted. Compare to my pics.
Then look at his coments after the pic where he says this came direct off the player..id say something is very wrong here..looks like 480 not 1080.


This is a new movie, why anyone thought it would need EE, I don't know.

Please note, my screen caps are straight from the BD, no cables, no cameras, no displays to introduce any errors.
(a bit of jpeg compression artifacts maybe as I don't use PNG)

Alan, can you take the trouble to take pics of the same frames that others are using to show the EE (like the last one above)?

fyi there is a thread and discussion about potential EE on the Simpsons movie here at AVS in this thread:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=881341&page=5

i had my info from BD.com and didn´t see the AVS thread until now