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1080i games?

post #1 of 18
11/14/07 at 12:06pm
Thread Starter 
As an owner of a CRT HDTV that only accepts 1080i over component I have held off buying a PS3 for two reasons, first SD-DVD's only upconvert over HDMI and second, from what I understand a lot of the currently available games only output 720P which my tv does not accept.

With regards to the first issue my problem is solved with the introduction of the Box1080 product (HDMI to component converter) that will allow me to connect the PS3 to my receiver via HDMI then connect the receiver to the tv with the Box1080.

With regards to the second issue, will Sony ever 'turn on' the internal scaler to output all games at 1080i, if not (due to hardware limitations or Company policy), are game developers going to trend towards adding the 1080i res as standard?

I know the PS3 is a great BD player in addition to the other features but if I'm left with the choice of playing games down res'd to 480P, I'll stick with my 360 where I can play all games at 1080i as I have no desire to replace my perfectly functioning tv any time soon.
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post #2 of 18
11/14/07 at 1:21pm
No player shuould upconvert via component. So this is not a PS3 thing.
Upconversion is prohibited on component by the DVD Industry. So you only can get upconversion on HDMI or DVI with HDCP. If the player is upconverting thru the component it is not following the DVD Industry rules.

You could upconvert DVD's via component if the AACS data is removed from the disc.

As far as the games I hear you. I also own a 1080i TV. This list shuold have what games are on what resolution. This is a PS3 flaw IMO and IIRC it is the only source of HD content that I am aware that does not scale 720p. It is also limiting my purchase of games/ps3 until I upgrade my HDTV

http://boardsus.playstation.com/play...ead.id=1543693
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post #3 of 18
11/14/07 at 7:26pm
The DVD Forum only allows DVDs to be upconverted over an HDCP compliant interface (i.e. HDMI). You won't ever see the PS3 upconvert over component.

Virtually all new games are now supporting 1080i. My last three purchases (Ratchet & Clank, Call of Duty 4 and Assassin's Creed) are all running in 1080i. And I'm expecting Uncharted to as well (given that the demo does).

Right now, it's only the older/Tier II games that don't support 1080i.
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post #4 of 18
11/17/07 at 6:15pm
Thread Starter 
Guys,

I'm well aware that SD-DVD's cannot be unpconverted over component by ANY device, hence my reference to the new Box1080 (HDMI to component converter) to solve MY problem as my tv does NOT have HDMI, I never said it was a PS3 problem per se'.

mikechorney indicated that the new games ARE coming out to support 1080i, so does that mean that Sony will never turn on the internal scaler to output 1080i and we will have to rely on the developers to include that res?
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post #5 of 18
11/18/07 at 4:37pm
It sounds like you're stuck with an old tv and 360.
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post #6 of 18
11/18/07 at 4:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ExCavTanker View Post

mikechorney indicated that the new games ARE coming out to support 1080i, so does that mean that Sony will never turn on the internal scaler to output 1080i and we will have to rely on the developers to include that res?

Technically the internal scaler is on since DVDs and PS1/2 games can be scaled to 720p, 1080i, and 1080p. For some reason Sony can't or won't let it be used to upscale PS3 games though.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, it seems like all the big releases now are being programmed with 1080 support in some way or another.
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post #7 of 18
11/18/07 at 5:44pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by csaxon View Post

It sounds like you're stuck with an old tv and 360.


That still puts out an awesome picture.
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post #8 of 18
11/18/07 at 5:45pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkchurch View Post

I wouldn't worry too much about it, it seems like all the big releases now are being programmed with 1080 support in some way or another.

Hopefully that trend continues.
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post #9 of 18
11/18/07 at 6:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bkchurch View Post

Technically the internal scaler is on since DVDs and PS1/2 games can be scaled to 720p, 1080i, and 1080p. For some reason Sony can't or won't let it be used to upscale PS3 games though.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, it seems like all the big releases now are being programmed with 1080 support in some way or another.

The PS3 doesn't have an internal scaler. It's all being done in software.
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post #10 of 18
11/18/07 at 7:02pm
[quote=ExCavTanker;12246664]Guys,

I'm well aware that SD-DVD's cannot be unpconverted over component by ANY device, hence my reference to the new Box1080 (HDMI to component converter) to solve MY problem as my tv does NOT have HDMI, I never said it was a PS3 problem per se'.

QUOTE]

You're missing the issue. As the upconverted signal leaves the PS3 via HDMi it is HDCP compliant. Once it enters the Box1080 and moves to component cables, which happen to be analog, the compliance is no longer in effect. Once you lose this compliance, the upscaling is switched off and what you get is 480p rather than 1080i. I happen to have the same issue and was looking for a converter box myself. Unfortunately they don't make HDCP compliant analog devices. Two choices, buy blu ray disks which will play
1080i or sell your current set on craig's list and get a new tv.
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post #11 of 18
11/19/07 at 3:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbrodie617 View Post

You're missing the issue. As the upconverted signal leaves the PS3 via HDMi it is HDCP compliant. Once it enters the Box1080 and moves to component cables, which happen to be analog, the compliance is no longer in effect. Once you lose this compliance, the upscaling is switched off and what you get is 480p rather than 1080i. I happen to have the same issue and was looking for a converter box myself. Unfortunately they don't make HDCP compliant analog devices. Two choices, buy blu ray disks which will play
1080i or sell your current set on craig's list and get a new tv.

That device decrypts the HDCP, so it looks like it gets around the compliance. However, apparently you can only output the same resolution as the input. So, it won't do him any good since it won't convert 1080p to 1080i (unless he adds a video processor between the Box1080 and the TV).
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post #12 of 18
11/19/07 at 5:19am
Just get a used Zenith DVD player that upconverts over Component, like we all did a few years back when the device came out. They can still be found used.
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post #13 of 18
11/19/07 at 7:41am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDrexl View Post

That device decrypts the HDCP, so it looks like it gets around the compliance. However, apparently you can only output the same resolution as the input. So, it won't do him any good since it won't convert 1080p to 1080i (unless he adds a video processor between the Box1080 and the TV).

Thank you for correcting any misconceptions held by some others, you are 100% correct! But, even if I sprung for the new Lumagen Radiance XD VP I'd still need the Box1080 to deal with the HDCP issue.

As I've tried to state before, the existence of that device has solved the problem for me and every other owner of a CRT RP HDTV that is limited to 1080i input via the component connection, the SD-DVD upconvert issue is now a dead horse.

The only issue that remains that some have weighed in on is can/will Sony offer a 1080i output scaled image for ALL games or are they leaving it up to the game developers as their choice. Unless the XBOX 360 is technologically superior(not to be debated in this thread), then there should be no reason why PS3 can't accomplish the same thing as that console and offer 720P, 1080i or 1080P output in the setup menu of the console vs a per disc basis.
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post #14 of 18
11/19/07 at 7:52am
ExCav, theres something to consider: Just because it can do something, doesn't mean it does it WELL.

Example: Vegas on the PS3 "scales" to 1080i, but looks horrible as a result of how they did it. Uncharted seems to run at 1080i, but it does so by cutting the vertical resolution down to 960 (instead of 1920) or something like that.......

Before you go investing in some device that may or may not solve your problem, you should consider what the results will look like. Any time you get 3rd party devices doing scaling that aren't expensive External Video Processors, I get a little nervous.

For me, if the game wont scale to 1080i, I either play it at 480p (not the end of the world) or I move it to a 720p display in my home.

But for movies, seriously, dont waste your money...buy one of those Zeniths (318 is the model number) and upconvert to 1080i over component. I own several and they all work great.
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post #15 of 18
11/19/07 at 8:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeadRusch View Post

ExCav, theres something to consider: Just because it can do something, doesn't mean it does it WELL.

Example: Vegas on the PS3 "scales" to 1080i, but looks horrible as a result of how they did it. Uncharted seems to run at 1080i, but it does so by cutting the vertical resolution down to 960 (instead of 1920) or something like that.......

Before you go investing in some device that may or may not solve your problem, you should consider what the results will look like. Any time you get 3rd party devices doing scaling that aren't expensive External Video Processors, I get a little nervous.

For me, if the game wont scale to 1080i, I either play it at 480p (not the end of the world) or I move it to a 720p display in my home.

But for movies, seriously, dont waste your money...buy one of those Zeniths (318 is the model number) and upconvert to 1080i over component. I own several and they all work great.

With regards to Vegas and Uncharted, if that's true that's certainly not good at all and doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling about how Sony wants to approach it!
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post #16 of 18
11/19/07 at 8:48am
Uncharted looks good, Vegas I do not own..and therefor cannot comment, but every one whos tried it at 1080i seems to indicate it looks blurry and not very good. I think Dev's are now learning (or have learned) how to enable the scaling feature.
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post #17 of 18
11/19/07 at 8:58am
Vegas and Warhawk are the only PS3 games that look noticeably worse at 1080i and i dunno why.

most, if not all PS3 games lately support 1080i and the majority of them are scaled the same way as the 360 (through software scaling). most games are 720p native, so to actually render it at 1080i, it would be a lot more difficult to render naitve 1080i as it has significantly more lines of resolution.

most 360 games are 720p native as well and are just upscaled to 1080i/p through Xenos (the GPU). the PS3 has 2 ways of supporting 1080i and the first is the way i mentioned about, and the second is to render it at 960x1080 and upscale the horizontal resolution (960) up to 1920. this is actually more lines of resolution than 720p (1280x720=921600 pixels vs 960x1080=1036800 pixels).

i think some earlier PS3 titles didn't support 1080i as Sony was unaware of the amount of 480p/1080i owners, but as i said earlier, most if not all PS3 games lately support 1080i.
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post #18 of 18
11/19/07 at 10:54am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

Vegas and Warhawk are the only PS3 games that look noticeably worse at 1080i and i dunno why.

most, if not all PS3 games lately support 1080i and the majority of them are scaled the same way as the 360 (through software scaling). most games are 720p native, so to actually render it at 1080i, it would be a lot more difficult to render native 1080i as it has significantly more lines of resolution.

most 360 games are 720p native as well and are just upscaled to 1080i/p through Xenos (the GPU). the PS3 has 2 ways of supporting 1080i and the first is the way i mentioned about, and the second is to render it at 960x1080 and upscale the horizontal resolution (960) up to 1920. this is actually more lines of resolution than 720p (1280x720=921600 pixels vs 960x1080=1036800 pixels).

i think some earlier PS3 titles didn't support 1080i as Sony was unaware of the amount of 480p/1080i owners, but as i said earlier, most if not all PS3 games lately support 1080i.


Thank you for the very enlightening reply. That corresponds with my comparison to the 360, if they could do it there with a 720P rendered game, PS3 should be able to as well.

I have to say, after my wife saw Ratchet & Clank: TOD at a friend's house, for the first time in history, 'I'm' the one holding back on the electronic entertainment purchase, but it looks as if the newer titles are coming around to 1080i support which may just sway the purchase..
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