Quote:
Originally Posted by RicardoJoa 
Which two ways speakers are you talking about? And when you talk about emphasis on midbass, do you mean a bump in the FR?
Which two ways speakers are you talking about? And when you talk about emphasis on midbass, do you mean a bump in the FR?
Over the years it seems good 3 way speakers sounded better to me than good 2 way speakers (this is very much a generalization). I don't remember specific models from years past, but more recently 2 way models I've listened to are GR Research N2X, GR Research A/V-3, and Usher Mini Dancer 2. I also auditioned the new Magnepan 1.7, and although it is listed as 3 way, all "drivers" share the same diaphram. The 3 way designs I'm comparing them to are the Revel F32 and my own ADS L1290/2. Both of these speakers seem to have less coloration, or slight emphasis, in the lower midrange. To me, the coloration/emphasis I'm refering to makes voices sound like they are singing in a box at times (depending on the notes they hit and the harmonics generated). It can make voices sound a bit muddied at times.
I'm really trying to understand what exactly I am hearing and what causes it (FR variations? Room acoustics? Speaker design?).
Given that even Jim Salk uses a 3 way design in his flagship speakers, there must be some advantage to this. It would be interesting to what is that advantage. One I've heard mentioned years ago was increased power handling.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Swerdlow
It might be easy to generalize too much about this. There are both good and bad 2-way and 3-way designs.
The first transmission line (TL) type cabinet I heard were SongTowers. Before that, I thought I could recognize the bass sound from the two basic types of cabinet alignment, sealed and ported reflex. Even if both were properly designed to produce as flat as possible bass response, to my ears the sealed design had a "dry" or "lean" (for lack of better words) sound, and the bass reflex design had a "fat" sound. Of course, these words exaggerate the differences.
When I first heard the SongTowers, I was struck at how the bass sounded unlike any sealed or ported cabinet I'd known. It is a particularly clean sounding bass. Many others have noticed this about TLs, but I'm still not exactly sure what causes it.
All speakers vibrate back and forth producing forward and rearward vibrations. We hear the forward vibrations directly, and in sealed or ported reflex cabinet 2-way speakers, these rearward vibrations can come out through the woofer cones delayed in time from the original signal. This is heard as a muddiness in the upper bass or lower midrange. We hear this even though efforts are made to suppress the rearward vibrations with cabinet stuffing or lining materials.
Dennis Murphy noticed this as well and once pointed out that TL cabinets couple rearward woofer motion to a large column of air that vibrates inside the cabinet. It's carefully constructed so its length is one fourth the cabinet tuning wavelength. Large openings on one end of these cabinets allow this energized air to move freely out of the cabinet. A benefit of coupling the woofer back waves to the air inside the TL cabinet is improved midrange clarity. The front waves from the woofers get little or no interference from internal cabinet reflections as in other designs.
Once I became used to listening to the STs, other bass types never sounded as clean or as good to me again.
My point to this long-winded post is to say, why not put your question about 2-ways vs. 3-way aside until you hear the SongTowers or HT2-TLs?
The more you describe your ADS speakers, the more I'm interested in hearing them.
It might be easy to generalize too much about this. There are both good and bad 2-way and 3-way designs.
The first transmission line (TL) type cabinet I heard were SongTowers. Before that, I thought I could recognize the bass sound from the two basic types of cabinet alignment, sealed and ported reflex. Even if both were properly designed to produce as flat as possible bass response, to my ears the sealed design had a "dry" or "lean" (for lack of better words) sound, and the bass reflex design had a "fat" sound. Of course, these words exaggerate the differences.
When I first heard the SongTowers, I was struck at how the bass sounded unlike any sealed or ported cabinet I'd known. It is a particularly clean sounding bass. Many others have noticed this about TLs, but I'm still not exactly sure what causes it.
All speakers vibrate back and forth producing forward and rearward vibrations. We hear the forward vibrations directly, and in sealed or ported reflex cabinet 2-way speakers, these rearward vibrations can come out through the woofer cones delayed in time from the original signal. This is heard as a muddiness in the upper bass or lower midrange. We hear this even though efforts are made to suppress the rearward vibrations with cabinet stuffing or lining materials.
Dennis Murphy noticed this as well and once pointed out that TL cabinets couple rearward woofer motion to a large column of air that vibrates inside the cabinet. It's carefully constructed so its length is one fourth the cabinet tuning wavelength. Large openings on one end of these cabinets allow this energized air to move freely out of the cabinet. A benefit of coupling the woofer back waves to the air inside the TL cabinet is improved midrange clarity. The front waves from the woofers get little or no interference from internal cabinet reflections as in other designs.
Once I became used to listening to the STs, other bass types never sounded as clean or as good to me again.
My point to this long-winded post is to say, why not put your question about 2-ways vs. 3-way aside until you hear the SongTowers or HT2-TLs?
The more you describe your ADS speakers, the more I'm interested in hearing them.
Thanks for the great information.
I'm certainly not ruling out any 2 way speakers just because they are 2 way. I'm really trying to understand what exactly I am hearing and what is causing it (as I mentioned above in this post).
I really would like to hear a pair of SongTowers and HT2-TLs (especially the HT2-TLs). However, Dennis just mentioned to me in an e-mail that he only got 1 HT2-TL cabinet and I thought he was getting a pair.
I can see from his standpoint (designing crossovers, testing speakers) that he would only need 1 speaker, but I need to hear a stereo pair in order to properly evaluate and compare them to others. So I'm not sure what's going to happen from here (I'm waiting to hear back from Dennis for guidance).
(Warning! Rant to follow.....)
It really sucks that I no longer have a great dealer in my area that carries the speakers I want to audition and would allow me to do so in my home like I use to have some years ago (I dealt with a shop over 20 years before they went out of business
). I read how great these speakers sound and want to hear them for myself. As much as others may praise a speaker, it's no substitute to hearing them myself to see if they suit my own preferences.(OK, I feel better now....)
I guess I will just have to take my time to find were I can audition the speakers on my list. In the meantime, I guess it's not so bad "settling" for my ADSs.
(In home auditioning is preferred, natch.)
I may need to rent that room out instead!
