The Official Salk Sound Owner's And Discussion Thread - Page 248

Then the piggy back bananas can be a solution. Look for ones that have the wire enter from the side of the plug and a hole in back end.

That's what I'm using on the amp end. I'm thinking of using bare wire on the speaker end, but stacking bananas is an option.

TOO Quiet Here .........every body listening to their SALKs?

Yup.

It's too quiet in here.

I have Supercharged SongTowers, Supercharged SongCenter, SongSurrounds and the Salk/Rythmik 12" sealed sub. They are sounding fantastic. I'm not a believer in speaker break-in (theoretically), but they sound better by the day so I'm really pleased with my purchase. The bass isn't lacking but I must admit it's a bit less assertive than I was expecting. Those expectations were probably unrealistic given my large, open living space and the fact that I opted for a single 12" sealed sub. I would definitely benefit from another, larger sub but I just don't have the room right now.

Maybe that's just the way it is, but then maybe (likely?) I've just done a poor job of optimizing. Right now I've set the crossover to 80Hz. I haven't found an audio source that's been able to present a significant difference for a good A/B/C comparison to see if I might benefit from something a bit lower. I'd love to hear some input on what others have regarding bass management. I'd also like to hear some suggestions of good source material that might help me fine-tune the crossover. Or does it really even matter?

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

^^^

the "best material" for fine tuning the xover is test tones and a measuring device...

what are you using for subwoofer eq?

First of all the songtowers have a flat tonal balance. this means that at "less-than-realistic levels" you will perceive less bass due to your hearing curve. modern Electronic Loudness Compensation can be interesting to try IE Audyssey Dynamic EQ

Second you may have placement nulls from a single sub. Try running the STs full range with the sub rolling in around 100hz - this will probably smooth things out a bit. But really you want to be able to measure what's going on so that you can work to correct any perceived issues, instead of zhooting in the dark. More subs will.of course not only improve frequency response but also headroom. Speaking of headroom, you might be able to squeeze out around 4+ db of headroom if you quadruple your amp power into a 4 ohm load.

I don't know what that means.

I don't mean to imply that I'm displeased, just that the jump from my old piece of crap (Polk PSW110) and this new beautiful sub wasn't quite as dramatic as I was hoping. I chalk that up to high (and uninformed) expectations. I'd probably rest a lot easier if I understood the PEQ settings on the Rythmik amp a little better.

It means that if your amp is clipping at around 140 W @ 4 ohms right now, getting an amp that can do around ~560W @ 4 ohms would on paper give you around 6db more unclipped sound. In practice it may be less than a full 6db more SPL due to thermal compression effects. Since bass perception hinges on SPL, it's a possibility.

Good bass will never flaunt itself. It will simply be there. If bass is drawing attention to itself, chances are that you have issues with clipping, driver over-excursion, port chuffing, or frequency response peaks. A lot of people's definition of bass is skewed by their "conditioning" to expect obnoxious high Q bass. Chances are it's just a matter of not focusing in on attention drawing bass. Content with lots of bass will be powerful and tight. Content you may have thought had lots of bass, may not be!

Like I said, the only way to know if what you dislike is a real issue with integration or the room, or simply a matter of "expecting more distortion", is to quantify what you've got!

Comprendo and thanks. To be clear, I'm not looking for the window shaking or boomy, rattling bass out of my sub. I am more interested in hearing the individual notes being played on a bass guitar in a song (for example). My problem is almost certainly the size of my condo, which has a wide open living area, basically 600 square feet without so much as a doorway. Ironically, it's too large for a sub to fill but too limited on floor space to allow for two subs.

I don't think my amp is clipping but now you've got me thinking about a separate. Is there no end to it?
Edited by repete66211 - 6/25/12 at 8:35pm

Here's a floorplan. The living, dining and kitchen are essentially all one room and the stairway ("Entry") is open as well. For those without a microscope, my sofa is against the bottom wall of the living area, flanked by two side tables on which the Surround I rear speakers sit. My A/V gear--TV stand, SongTowers and sub--is across the room against the wall shared with the kitchen. The whole place is about 23' wide and the main listening area is about 13' wide. The ceiling is 8.5'. The unit listed at 915 square feet, but I haven't verified those numbers.
Edited by repete66211 - 6/26/12 at 9:15pm

I was under no illusions regarding the room volume:bass issue. I knew my space presented a challenge. My slight disappointment isn't in the absolute performance of the new sub but rather what it's doing relative to my old crappy Polk PSW110. Don't get me wrong here; the new speakers are so much better than my old ones, but the perceived low frequency improvement isn't as dramatic as the rest. I realize that's the nature of low frequency, especially at low levels, so this is probably just a matter of unrealistic expectations.

I'm afraid sub crawl is out since there's really only one place the sub can go. It's in the corner to the left of the TV stand. I've tweaked things a bit in the last few days and it's sounding better. (Bias? Hmm, perhaps.) Maybe I should have gone with a 15" sub, but the long-term intention is to have enough room for 2x12". But that's not going to happen until the real estate market improves.

Repete.... FWIW, I have two Rythmik F12's in a room of approx 4600 cf and they are more than enough. You are using a single F12 in what sounds like an even bigger space. Still, you should get markedly better SQ than with your Polk sub in the same space. One possibility is that the very clean sound of the Rythmik's is throwing you. It did me in the beginning. I have grown to love them since. As others have said, lesser subs have more distortion which sounds like more bass until you experience the difference. I don't recall what your settings are on the sub. Ultimately, most will end up with hi damping and low extension. I would suggest that you try medium damping and extension at 20 - or even low damping / 28. These variations will give you a sense of the difference. The lower the damping setting, the more "looseness" you will here in the bass. The higher frequency of the extension setting, the more you will emphasize the more audible bass range. Your Polk probably only extended into the twenties anyway. The Rythmiks are amazing that they go relatively flat down to 14.

If a lower damping/higher extension setting sounds better to you, listen that way for a few weeks. Then change damping one setting higher and I bet you will like it more. Keep moving the settings towards hi/14 until you find your sweet spot.

Oh, another trick is to use a splitter for your sub line in cable so that you are inputting to both RCA jacks. Brian (the designer) says this will give you an increase in output.

You also might visit the Rythmik thread on AVS as there is much discussion about these things there and Brian is an active participant:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1214550/official-rythmik-audio-subwoofer-thread/6570

Hope this helps..........

An external soundcard with phantom mic and a microphone? Good grief man, I'm not Spock. I do have an SPL meter but the readout fluctuates so much I wonder about its value. Regardless, I'll see if I can't plot a chart. Thanks for providing all that.
Edited by repete66211 - 6/27/12 at 10:05am

I just looked at your floorplan again and realized that I thought you had a second floor with the balcony overlooking - meaning a high ceiling. Your space is actually probably smaller than mine, so you should really have enough output. Getting good flat response with one sub is another story, but you shouldn't experience lack of output.

Thanks for the recommendations. I'm using a Y-splitter into the LFE. My settings are:
PEQ - OFF
Low pass - EXT/12
Rumble filter - ON
Extension Filter:
FREQ - 20 (I think.)
DAMPING - MID (I think.)

Regarding the bass Extension Filter the setup sheet states "High damping gives cleanest sound. Low damping gives the sharper roll-off below. One should try 20 Hz and all 3 damping settings to see if a difference can be heard. If not, 20/MID damping should be used." I couldn't hear a difference so that's what I went with initially. It goes on to say "Otherwise, 14Hz/HI is recommended for medium SPL playback. For high SPL, please use 28/LOW damping and set the Rumble Filter to ON." Since I listen at both medium and high SPL levels this is a bit confusing. When tweaking it a couple nights ago I may have switched to 14/HI. For what it's worth, on the Rythmik page on Blu-ray.com Enrico Castagnetti with Rythmik posted this recommendation subsequent to my settings inquiry:

Thumbnail calculation puts it at about 4,500 cubic feet, probably more if you consider the fact that all doors are usually open. The stairway is a bit of a problem too as it has the same ceiling but descends 16 steps. Oh well, at least I have carpet.

As you can see in the diagram, the bathtub is pretty close to the sub. When I was showering the other day with music playing I could hear the bass loud and clear, more pronounced even than in the room in which it was playing. That's a good demonstration of the resonance produced by corner placement and that the sub is indeed working just fine.
Edited by repete66211 - 6/27/12 at 10:56am

Sorry, potentially dumb question. Does using a Y-splitter gain anything if using LFE? (I just received my FV15 yesterday).

I've seen the same 3dB gain mentioned a number of times.
Edited by repete66211 - 6/28/12 at 9:17am

There is a difference between an LFE input and the LFE extension setting on the Rythmik. If the latter, the split input should still serve to increase output. The PEQ amps in the F12 don't have an LFE input AFAIK.

The latter or former? Although it's not on the quick setup guide or the photos/diagrams on the website the A370-PEQ amp has both LFE and Line-in. LFE has replaced the Line-out apparently. (Unless I'm misremembering.)
Edited by repete66211 - 6/27/12 at 1:05pm

I meant the latter, but it could be both. I'm not familiar with how LFE inputs work. I will check my subs when I get home to see about the input configuration.

I've got the 370PEQ2. It has line in and hpf out. No LFE in.

I've seen 3 versions--LINE OUT, HPF OUT and LFE IN. Mine is only a couple of months old so maybe it's just on the new ones?
(The lens is pretty scratched up so sorry about the fuzzy picture.)

Is yours a 370PEQ3 by any chance? It is clearly different. I'm not sure what the purpose is for LFE inputs.