The Official Salk Sound Owner's And Discussion Thread - Page 252

Originally Posted by Ryder125 

what do you guys use for surround speakers? the ones they offer seem kinda big.

Originally Posted by repete66211 

I went with the standard Surround I. The upgrade would have been another $700 and I was already about 20% over budget. I wanted the RAALs for two channel music and the ever-important center channel, but I reckoned--and Jim agreed--that the secondary sounds you normally get out of the rears in a 5.1 mix wouldn't justify the additional expense.

Originally Posted by Ryder125 

do you have the walnut song towers supercharged? going off of your profile photo... if you do that the same system I'm thinking of looks so killer.

Originally Posted by repete66211 

I have supercharged Towers and a supercharged Center. And then the Surround I rears and a Salk/Rythmik 12" sub. Go for it. I recommend it highly. What veneer are you considering?

Originally Posted by Hspecialist 

Is that a Accuton mid? Just wondering...
Brian in Bakersfield...

Originally Posted by LTD02 

"Thanks for the link...(drooling)..."
really? it has 84db 1w1m sensitivity. very flat frequency response at one watt, but what happens when you hit it with a ton of power. they won't come anywhere near reproducing the dynamics of a live orchestra. you need to hit about 120db instantaneous peaks at the listening position for that. pass.

Originally Posted by LTD02 

"Thanks for the link...(drooling)..."
really? it has 84db 1w1m sensitivity. very flat frequency response at one watt, but what happens when you hit it with a ton of power. they won't come anywhere near reproducing the dynamics of a live orchestra. you need to hit about 120db instantaneous peaks at the listening position for that. pass.

Originally Posted by LTD02 

"Thanks for the link...(drooling)..."
really? it has 84db 1w1m sensitivity. very flat frequency response at one watt, but what happens when you hit it with a ton of power. they won't come anywhere near reproducing the dynamics of a live orchestra. you need to hit about 120db instantaneous peaks at the listening position for that. pass.

Originally Posted by nemir 

What are the problems with hitting 84db speakers with a lot of power?
I thought that was the point of lower sensitivity. You just need more amps to get it to reference levels....
(I am thinking of a pair of SS10s rght now)

Originally Posted by LTD02 

yeah, that's the marketing line.
the more power that you dump into a driver the more that it will compress dynamics. as you approach the rated power of a driver, putting more power into it will not increase spl as you would think. the resistance of the coil will go up and most of the power will be lost to heat. this is called power compression.
this isn't true for just low sensitivity drivers, it is true for all drivers.
i have nothing against low sensitivity drivers when used in multiples that give them a high sensitivity net.
take a look at the old infinity irs speakers.

Originally Posted by Nuance 

This. I have attended numerous live performances, and never has the sound reach 120dB. I don't sit in the front row, but that's because I don't think the performance sounds best there.
Jim states it much more eloquently than I, but in a nutshell it is because the high efficiency drivers he has tested don't meet his requirements for musical reproduction. I'm talking detail, timbre/tonality, accuracy, etc. There are trade-offs to high efficiency designs just like there are trade-offs to non-HE designs. Heck, speaker design is nothing but trade-offs; we just need to find the ones we're willing to live with. Me personally: I don't listen to music at 120dB, so my Salk speakers perform just fine. If I had a dedicated HT in a very large room I'd use something else (again - design trade-offs).
It seems the pro high efficiency design fanboys have nothing better to do lately than to corrupt threads with hate towards non HE designs. It's kind of pathetic really... What's ironic is that Dr. Floyd Toole himself (a pioneer in this industry) says in his latest book that in all but very large rooms most traditional dome-style speakers can hit reference levels for short periods of time without adverse effects to the sound, and without the necessity of horns and such. He also states that such levels are not preferred by most people, and that HE designs are more likely to cause hearing damage to those that listen to them. But yet the pro HE design fanboys still push their agenda, claiming non-HE can't cut it. And yet the 2-channel industry is dominated by non-HE designs. Gee, I wonder why? HE designs are great for HT, but the people that push only that design and insist reference levels are a must for movie watching are a small sampling of the masses; they are a niche group, but apparently also the most angry and pushy.
As mentioned already, the SS8's are 87dB sensitive, not 84.

Originally Posted by Nuance 

Do violinists not where ear protection during performances? I think most rock players do. That's very interesting info, Randy. Do you think it has anything to do with the dispersion pattern of amplified vs. un-amplified instruments, with the former being fired forward via speakers during rock concerts?

Originally Posted by Nuance 

I have attended numerous live performances, and never has the sound reach 120dB.

Originally Posted by Bill Fitzmaurice 

I've taken RTA measurements at over a hundred major concerts, with results averaging 105 to115dBC in the FOH. Said FOH is 125 feet from the stage/PA stacks, so 120dB in the closer seats is not only not out of the question, it's common. Not that I recommend listening to music at even 105dB, but if duplicating actual concert levels is what you want to do a minimum of 105dB at the listening position is what you need to do it. This doesn't apply to all genres, but FWIW I measured the same results with Country and Western as I did with Metal.
As for on stage, those levels tend to be the same with either amplified instruments or orchestras. Where individual players are concerned orchestral players are at a disadvantage, as they generally don't use in-ear monitors that they adjust to a comfortable level.

Originally Posted by Chu Gai 

That's fine Bill but turbo mentioned orchestras which I take to mean unamplified performances. At a reasonable seating distance, not among the musicians, 120dB seems just a bit optimistic.

Originally Posted by Nuance 

That's a whole lot 'o power!
Reference levels are described as 105dB peak at the speakers and 115 at the subwoofer(s). No one could consistently listen at 115dB at the speakers and continue hearing well.
Edit: Here is the calculator I always reference (dunno if there is a better one or not):
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.html
To hit reference levels based on your distance of 8 feet using two speakers and not taking into account the room, it would take 187 watts for the 87dB SS8's. Using just one speaker at a time (who does that?) it would take 372 watts. In either scenario, a "ton" of power is unnecessary.