or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › The Official Salk Sound Owner's And Discussion Thread
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Official Salk Sound Owner's And Discussion Thread - Page 257

post #7681 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Ben,
Thank you for sharing your experience with us - it was well written - and it got me giddy like a kid on Christmas morning when reading it. You've got one heckuva system headed your way, and I am happy to welcome you to the Salk family. I look forward to pictures and further impressions. Oh, and which veneer did you choose?
Salk will build you whatever you want, which is part of the beauty of the experience. Rythmik doesn't offer an 18" sub driver, though, so if you wanted an 18 sub from Salk you'd have to a choose a different driver (such as the LMS5400).

I can definitely confirm this. After several months and many many email exchanges with Jim, my custom LMS Ultra 5400 sub is underway. The hardest part was probably the veneer selection. I ended up going with a batch of Ziricote that I really liked. I should mention that Jim is building this sub just as I need it for the given space, so custom needs are easily addressed by Salk Sound.
post #7682 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by benguin View Post

Hadn't considered the WOW1's for the surrounds. While we were there I asked Jim's recommedation on surrounds, and the thought the SS 1's would do nicely. Part of the recommendation might have been to help on the blown budget as well. smile.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

I don't know which surround he was considering the one with on or two woofers. The two woofer version will have a better sensitivity. Maybe that's what he was talking about. If so, then the wow1 may not be a suitable replacement.
edit:
I see you mentioned the 1, which is the single woofer version. It may still be more sensitive, being slightly larger than the wow1 woofer.

I was a bit up in the air as far as which speakers to go with for my surrounds. I even toyed with the idea of having Jim make some Supercharged surrounds.
This was Jim's response:
Quote:
While we could certainly do a pair of "Supercharged" SongSurround I's, I don't see any reason to do it. Surround duty is not all that critical.

For many years, I had a speaker that was pretty much the same as these [SongSurronund I] for my rear surrounds. While I could obviously have replaced them at any time with any other speaker we build, I never felt the need to do so. These are very good bookshelf monitors and are perfect for surround duties.

Jim recommended SongSurround I for me.
This is another reason why I would recommend buying from Jim Salk. He could have easily sold me a much more expensive (and I assume more profitable for him) speakers for my surrounds. Whatever he recommended, I likely would have ordered. But he sold me what I needed and what would fit with my system. No more, no less. That builds trust and although I have yet to take delivery of my speakers, I would highly recommend dealing with Jim Salk. He's honest, fair and up front with every step of the process
post #7683 of 9127
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chargedmr2 View Post

I can definitely confirm this. After several months and many many email exchanges with Jim, my custom LMS Ultra 5400 sub is underway. The hardest part was probably the veneer selection. I ended up going with a batch of Ziricote that I really liked. I should mention that Jim is building this sub just as I need it for the given space, so custom needs are easily addressed by Salk Sound.

Wow! I cannot wait to see the completed product. Is he building it passive and then you'll supply your own amp, or did you guys agree on a suitable plate amp?
post #7684 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Wow! I cannot wait to see the completed product. Is he building it passive and then you'll supply your own amp, or did you guys agree on a suitable plate amp?

It's going to be a passive sub. Originally, I was thinking plate amp, but unfortunately I don't have a lot of flexibility with placement (at least for now) and the plate amp would be visible which my wife wouldn't be too happy with. Until I have a dedicated room, the sub has to sit next to the couch as an end table and it will be visible from three sides (sort of placed out in the middle of the room which will not be ideal, but better than no sub at all). It's even designed with the binding posts mounted on the bottom of the sub so the speaker cable will be hidden. Also, I plan to use this sub for a long time, so I thought it would be best to keep amplification seperate for maximum flexibility down the road.

I still have to decide what to do for the amp. It needs to be pretty silent and occupy little space which is tough to do with with pro amps (at least I think). A plate amp would actually fit my needs fairly well since it could be set up to work as a stand alone amp, operating silently and possibly even be placed in a hidden location. Originally I was leaning towards the Minidsp plate amp, but I'm not sure it's worth the premium for silence, and I would still have to rig up a mount/box of some kind for it. If you have any advice, I'm all ears!
post #7685 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeGuy View Post

I was a bit up in the air as far as which speakers to go with for my surrounds. I even toyed with the idea of having Jim make some Supercharged surrounds.
This was Jim's response:

Jim recommended SongSurround I for me.
This is another reason why I would recommend buying from Jim Salk. He could have easily sold me a much more expensive (and I assume more profitable for him) speakers for my surrounds. Whatever he recommended, I likely would have ordered. But he sold me what I needed and what would fit with my system. No more, no less. That builds trust and although I have yet to take delivery of my speakers, I would highly recommend dealing with Jim Salk. He's honest, fair and up front with every step of the process

Fair enough, he would know more than anyone.
post #7686 of 9127
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chargedmr2 View Post

It's going to be a passive sub. Originally, I was thinking plate amp, but unfortunately I don't have a lot of flexibility with placement (at least for now) and the plate amp would be visible which my wife wouldn't be too happy with. Until I have a dedicated room, the sub has to sit next to the couch as an end table and it will be visible from three sides (sort of placed out in the middle of the room which will not be ideal, but better than no sub at all). It's even designed with the binding posts mounted on the bottom of the sub so the speaker cable will be hidden. Also, I plan to use this sub for a long time, so I thought it would be best to keep amplification seperate for maximum flexibility down the road.
I still have to decide what to do for the amp. It needs to be pretty silent and occupy little space which is tough to do with with pro amps (at least I think). A plate amp would actually fit my needs fairly well since it could be set up to work as a stand alone amp, operating silently and possibly even be placed in a hidden location. Originally I was leaning towards the Minidsp plate amp, but I'm not sure it's worth the premium for silence, and I would still have to rig up a mount/box of some kind for it. If you have any advice, I'm all ears!

The more you describe this subwoofer the more excited I get for you.

Finding a capable plate amp would be very tough, and likely cost a premium as you mentioned. This would, however, get the job done IMO. I know you said you're leaning outboard amp, but if you change your mind I bet Jim could chat with Nathan from Funk Audio and convince him to let you purchase one. Again, it would probably cost a premium, but this is a premium subwoofer after all. smile.gif

Finding a silent but capable pro amp is doable, but I'm not educated as much as I used to be regarding pro amps. However, I've heard good things about the Behringer NU6000DSP iNuke 6000W. I am not sure how quiet it is, though.

Most people who own LMS subwoofers put as much power into them as possible, usually going with a Lab Gruppen amp or one of their clones. They are NOT quiet amps, though. You've definitely got a challenge on your hands, so I highly recommend posting in the DIY subwoofer forum, inquiring about a silent but powerful amplifier for the LMS5400. The guys over there are very helpful.
post #7687 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

The more you describe this subwoofer the more excited I get for you.
Finding a capable plate amp would be very tough, and likely cost a premium as you mentioned. This would, however, get the job done IMO. I know you said you're leaning outboard amp, but if you change your mind I bet Jim could chat with Nathan from Funk Audio and convince him to let you purchase one. Again, it would probably cost a premium, but this is a premium subwoofer after all. smile.gif
Finding a silent but capable pro amp is doable, but I'm not educated as much as I used to be regarding pro amps. However, I've heard good things about the Behringer NU6000DSP iNuke 6000W. I am not sure how quiet it is, though.
Most people who own LMS subwoofers put as much power into them as possible, usually going with a Lab Gruppen amp or one of their clones. They are NOT quiet amps, though. You've definitely got a challenge on your hands, so I highly recommend posting in the DIY subwoofer forum, inquiring about a silent but powerful amplifier for the LMS5400. The guys over there are very helpful.

I'm with you Nuance. I won't cheap out on the amp or anything. I guess what I was thinking was that I could use a plate amp such as the one from Minidsp (which is very similar to Nathan's amp, but a little less refined) as an outboard amp since it is silent and I could probably hide it behind some books on one of the upper shelves in our open entertainment center. This would cost me about 1k, but I could probably (or definitely) get equal or better power from something like an LG clone at a lesser cost. So, I would sort of be paying a premium by going with a plate amp (run outboard) for silent operation and space savings. And it wouldn't really be a " plug and play" kind of situation since the plate amp would need a housing of some sort. Anyhow, I will take your advice and post over in the DIY sub forum and see what suggestions I get there.
post #7688 of 9127
Thread Starter 
^ Very cool. Best wishes to you in your search. Be sure to post pics and what not when the subwoofer is completed - very exciting stuff!
post #7689 of 9127
Quote:
While we could certainly do a pair of "Supercharged" SongSurround I's, I don't see any reason to do it. Surround duty is not all that critical.

For many years, I had a speaker that was pretty much the same as these [SongSurronund I] for my rear surrounds. While I could obviously have replaced them at any time with any other speaker we build, I never felt the need to do so. These are very good bookshelf monitors and are perfect for surround duties.

While this is the philosophy I go by for the most part, i'm starting to question it.

My thought is this:

We assume surrounds don't need to be resolving in the musical sense, because they're just ambient sounds for the most part.

But on the flip side of that, it's these ultra-low level sounds that the best speakers tend to reveal. Even good speakers, if you're off the intended listening-axis which is common with surrounds, can mask low level sounds. This is especially true with soft dome tweeters which have some low level hash just below the top octave.

If the only thing the speaker exists for are low level sounds, and low level sounds are the ones most easily lost, doesn't skimping on surrounds hurt the whole surround experience?

Just conjecture here. Not sure if there's any meaning to what I just said.
post #7690 of 9127
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post

While this is the philosophy I go by for the most part, i'm starting to question it.
My thought is this:
We assume surrounds don't need to be resolving in the musical sense, because they're just ambient sounds for the most part.
But on the flip side of that, it's these ultra-low level sounds that the best speakers tend to reveal. Even good speakers, if you're off the intended listening-axis which is common with surrounds, can mask low level sounds. This is especially true with soft dome tweeters which have some low level hash just below the top octave.
If the only thing the speaker exists for are low level sounds, and low level sounds are the ones most easily lost, doesn't skimping on surrounds hurt the whole surround experience?
Just conjecture here. Not sure if there's any meaning to what I just said.

For critical multi-channel music listening or BR concerts, probably. For movies, probably not.
post #7691 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post

While this is the philosophy I go by for the most part, i'm starting to question it.
My thought is this:
We assume surrounds don't need to be resolving in the musical sense, because they're just ambient sounds for the most part.
But on the flip side of that, it's these ultra-low level sounds that the best speakers tend to reveal. Even good speakers, if you're off the intended listening-axis which is common with surrounds, can mask low level sounds. This is especially true with soft dome tweeters which have some low level hash just below the top octave.
If the only thing the speaker exists for are low level sounds, and low level sounds are the ones most easily lost, doesn't skimping on surrounds hurt the whole surround experience?
Just conjecture here. Not sure if there's any meaning to what I just said.

I knew there was a good reason why I have KEF 201/2 all around even for surrounds. wink.gif
post #7692 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeGuy View Post

Jim recommended SongSurround I for me.
This is another reason why I would recommend buying from Jim Salk. He could have easily sold me a much more expensive (and I assume more profitable for him) speakers for my surrounds. Whatever he recommended, I likely would have ordered. But he sold me what I needed and what would fit with my system. No more, no less. That builds trust and although I have yet to take delivery of my speakers, I would highly recommend dealing with Jim Salk. He's honest, fair and up front with every step of the process
When I opted for SCSTs I asked Jim to supercharge the center too. Then I thought we might as well supercharge all around, but Jim told me the same thing he told you. Given what little material the surrounds get and having listened to them for a few months now I'm confident I made the right choice. Audyssey reads the Surround I speakers as "Large" so I don't think I'm missing too much on the low end either.
Edited by repete66211 - 9/11/12 at 12:51pm
post #7693 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by repete66211 View Post

When I opted for SCSTs I asked Jim to supercharge the center too. Then I thought we might as well supercharge all around, but Jim told me the same thing he told you. Given what little material the surrounds get and having listened to them for a few months now I'm confident I made the right choice. Audyssey reads the Surround I speakers as "Large" so I don't think I'm missing too much on the low end either.

That is very reassuring to hear. smile.gif I am sure we won't be disappointed. For us, it would have really been prohibitive to spring for the official matching speakers at this time and the SS I's really do seem to be a quality speaker, so I don't feel like we're skimping.

We've officially got our order in as of last night, so now I've got to get to work on getting all my framing/drywall/wiring complete ASAP. I have a feeling we'll put them in our family room until we're prepped for them in the lair in the basement. Countdown begins!
post #7694 of 9127
Just out of curiosity anyone know the long pole in the tent for speaker production. My build of supercharged songtowers has been stuck on cabinets glued now for about two weeks, with the next step being cabinets veneered. I'm trying to resist the urge to send an email and bug Jim and ask him how its going. That's what he put the status up for!
post #7695 of 9127
I don’t know how long it takes to veneer, but I think it would be natural to have delays in almost any step. Jim has a small shop. On a lot of the steps, I imagine he would only have one person that does that step as they are the best he has at that job. He has more steps than he has people so they could be working on other steps on other speakers. They sometimes take vacations and get sick. Also, since some steps use only a few resources, I imaging speakers could stack up in a queue at any one station. Also, supplies run out so there could be delays in ordering and shipping supplies and materials.

Bob
post #7696 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

Just out of curiosity anyone know the long pole in the tent for speaker production. My build of supercharged songtowers has been stuck on cabinets glued now for about two weeks, with the next step being cabinets veneered. I'm trying to resist the urge to send an email and bug Jim and ask him how its going. That's what he put the status up for!

Mine have been "glued up" for a couple of weeks too, and it took them a couple of weeks to get that far.
I keep reading this on the site:
Quote:
Please be aware that, depending on the operation at hand, it can take a while to complete the next task at hand.

But rest assured, it will eventually move and before long, your new speakers will be on their way!

Haha! I just went on the site to get the above quote and saw the may speakers above moved to "veneered"
post #7697 of 9127
^^ Great another open slot for someone elses to be veneered! biggrin.gif

The only reason I asked is that veneering would intuitively seem to be the choke point.
post #7698 of 9127
Thread Starter 
Concerning production and times, it should also be known that if the product isn't up the Jim's standard when it reaches each phase, he'll stop and start it over until he is satisfied. That may delay things on rare occasion, but it's something to keep in mind. Personally, I think that's a good thing because you know you're getting a top shelf product.
post #7699 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Concerning production and times, it should also be known that if the product isn't up the Jim's standard when it reaches each phase, he'll stop and start it over until he is satisfied. That may delay things on rare occasion, but it's something to keep in mind. Personally, I think that's a good thing because you know you're getting a top shelf product.

You'll get no argument from me on that one! One of the primary reasons for buying Salks is his attention to detail.
post #7700 of 9127
There is also some variability in veneers. Some have deeper grain than other so require more time to finish.
post #7701 of 9127
Hi guys, I have a question about the differences between the HT3 and the Soundscape 8.

I'm running 2 Rhythmik Audio F15HP subs, so my low end is pretty well taken care of. How much of a difference is there in the mid-bass & higher performance between the HT3 and the soundscape 8?

I also noted that the recommended amplification for the soundscape 8 is much lower--100-250 amps solid state, vs 100-500 amps solid state for the HT3.
Though I assume if I'm crossing crossing these over at say 60hz, that I could get away with a bit less.


Also, has anyone heard the Anthony Gallo reference 3.5, and if so, what were your impressions between that and the HT3, if you've heard both?

Thanks!
post #7702 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morik View Post

Hi guys, I have a question about the differences between the HT3 and the Soundscape 8.
I'm running 2 Rhythmik Audio F15HP subs, so my low end is pretty well taken care of. How much of a difference is there in the mid-bass & higher performance between the HT3 and the soundscape 8?
I also noted that the recommended amplification for the soundscape 8 is much lower--100-250 amps solid state, vs 100-500 amps solid state for the HT3.
Though I assume if I'm crossing crossing these over at say 60hz, that I could get away with a bit less.
Also, has anyone heard the Anthony Gallo reference 3.5, and if so, what were your impressions between that and the HT3, if you've heard both?
Thanks!

We were lucky enough to hear the HT3 and SS8 back to back at Salk. You've probably already compared the specs- the SS8 is a bit easier to drive (87db vs 84 db), so that would explain the recommended amplification difference. The other core differences are the Accuton midrange vs W18EX and the 2-8" woofers plus passives vs the 10" woofer. The weight may be a factor if you have to move them around much- 126 lbs vs 87 lbs.

Without the sub- we heard definite differences between the SuperchargedST and HT3 on fullness of sound, then another major step with the SS8s. HOWEVER, with the addition of your subs I am not sure if you would have a truly 'cost effective' difference in anything other than a side by side direct comparison. Both systems were VERY good. But as you would expect from the driver differences, you do have sonic differences for the price.

One thing that may or not be a factor for you, if I am recalling correctly, Jim had said the SS8s were much more tolerant of placement. I think that is probably due to the passive 12"s radiating much more broadly. When I walked around various locations during the audtion, the SS8 did not reveal any significant hot or dead zones. Again, with your two-sub set up, this may not be nearly as critical for bass interaction.

From what we heard, I don't think you can go wrong- it will just come down to which flavor of sound you may like and the $$.
post #7703 of 9127
Placement is an issue for me. I have a relatively small amount of placement flexibility. The right speaker is relatively close to a sidewall (anywhere from 1-2.5 feet, though the further out it is, the closer together the speakers are if I want them equidistant from the center of the listening position). The left speaker is nowhere near a sidewall.

I have a bit more flexibility with regard to the back wall, anywhere from 5' away all the way back. Though there are some bad room nulls past about 3.5' away from the rear wall.


So in terms of the accuracy, impact, and definition at say 50+ hz, both the HT3 and the SS8 are pretty similar? (I understand the SS8 would have some improvements, but it sounds like they would be minor?)

My other concern would be that currently I have no external amplification--I'm just using my Denon 4311CI. It sounds like SS8s would be easier to drive, whereas with the HT3 I might want to go get an amp sooner rather than later. So the cost difference might be moot there...
post #7704 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morik View Post

Placement is an issue for me. I have a relatively small amount of placement flexibility. The right speaker is relatively close to a sidewall (anywhere from 1-2.5 feet, though the further out it is, the closer together the speakers are if I want them equidistant from the center of the listening position). The left speaker is nowhere near a sidewall.
I have a bit more flexibility with regard to the back wall, anywhere from 5' away all the way back. Though there are some bad room nulls past about 3.5' away from the rear wall.
So in terms of the accuracy, impact, and definition at say 50+ hz, both the HT3 and the SS8 are pretty similar? (I understand the SS8 would have some improvements, but it sounds like they would be minor?)
My other concern would be that currently I have no external amplification--I'm just using my Denon 4311CI. It sounds like SS8s would be easier to drive, whereas with the HT3 I might want to go get an amp sooner rather than later. So the cost difference might be moot there...

I think the main difference in sound between the two is the deeper soundstaging provided by the SS8's open back midrange. Will you be able to take advantage of this, or will you have to shove speakers up against a rear wall?
post #7705 of 9127
I can get them 2-6 feet off the rear wall, but one as I said will be pretty close to a sidewall (1-3 feet)

And I've found that I have some rather large nulls at 4-6 feet out from the rear wall (around 170 & 230), so generally 3 or 3.5 is much better.

Would that be enough room to take advantage of it?
post #7706 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Morik View Post

I can get them 2-6 feet off the rear wall, but one as I said will be pretty close to a sidewall (1-3 feet)
And I've found that I have some rather large nulls at 4-6 feet out from the rear wall (around 170 & 230), so generally 3 or 3.5 is much better.
Would that be enough room to take advantage of it?

That's fine. The Sound Scape 10's did great in my room about 3 feet out from the rear.
post #7707 of 9127
Thread Starter 
So who's going to RMAF 2012 this year? Jim Salk will be there, as will Dennis Murphy I believe. The Salk owners in attendance should put together a Saturday night out or something.
post #7708 of 9127
Count me in. Will be free Friday night.
post #7709 of 9127
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlbeck View Post

Count me in. Will be free Friday night.

Awesome! You have a PM.
post #7710 of 9127
Interestingly enough, I will be in Denver already during RMAF, but I'm attending the GABF (Great American Beer Festival). I'm only going to sessions on Thursday and Saturday during the day, wondering if I can swing a visit to RMAF during my time in Denver.

Cheers,
Chad
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Speakers
AVS › AVS Forum › Audio › Speakers › The Official Salk Sound Owner's And Discussion Thread