The Official Salk Sound Owner's And Discussion Thread - Page 259

I'm partial to tubes so if you like the sound of the Jolida, I would keep it. I'm not familiar with the Duet but my Touch has both digital and analog outs. I would run analog outs from the Duet and the Oppo into the Jolida and use their dacs for two channel use. I would also run a set of preouts from the receiver into the Jolida if you plan on using the Songtowers for HT duty too.

The duet has both analog and digital out.

Your idea sounds perfect actually. We can still use the Squeezebox on the main speakers (90% of our listening) and then turn on the AVR for the other zones. I assume that if you have both the digital and analog hooked up to seperate amps/recievers that they both will get the same single at the same time.

Do most prefer the sound of the analog outs vs. the digital outs?

We have a seperate HT so really don't need to use the Salks for HT although may in the future (living room is pre wired for 5.1).

Thanks for the input.

Yes, you can use both outputs on the SB, I use one into my AVR and the analog to feed another zone. I think the DAC in the SB Touch is supposed to be fairly good, but that may not be the case with the Duet. I'd check in the slimdevices forums. You could always add a good DAC for the main system.

If anyone is willing to audition their Salks in Alberta that would be greatly appreciated. I'm toying between opening my wallet to competely destroying it (STSC vs SS8) so any chance to hear these would be great. You'll certainly be compensated for your time.

I'm in Calgary but willing to travel a few hours if I need to.

Thanks!
Matt

Hi Matt,

I don't have any of the big boys, but I do have the first ever pair of WOW1s here in Calgary and you would be welcome to come over for a listen.

- Rick

PM me your phone number and I'll give you a call.

Hi Matt, I'm not a Salk owner but I am in Calgary and I own Dennis Murphy's Philharmonic 2 speakers. The crossovers for the Songtowers, HT2, V3, HT3, Soundscape 8, and Soundscape 12 etc were all done by Dennis Murphy, so there should definitely be some family similarities to the Salk stuff. I honestly even expect it to be a good example of what to expect from the Jeff Bagby stuff IE Pharos/Archos - as they are all well-designed and accurate speakers with ribbon tweeters.

I think the Phils with open back should be very similar to the Soundscape 8. Give me a PM if you want to audition them. They're not Salks but they're basically a Salk sibling.
Edited by Eternal Velocity - 10/14/12 at 4:15pm

Pete, I also would second that I think your Cary will be fine. The SoundScapes are not about detail. If you put the back on the speaker then detail might be be an issue as it is so detailed. The normal mode, with the back off, the purpose is to sound natural. In a natural setting you aren't in a heavily damped recording studio. In a natural setting the ambiant sounds make the music come alive, but they also obscure delicate details. You wouldn't hear those details live and you wouldn't hear them with the SoundScapes. The SoundScapes are not about detail when used in their intended mode.

Bob

Hi guys,

So I have some SS8s on order (in a deep rose/quilted maple, something along these lines: http://salksound.com/gallery/soundscape/ss10-rosered-quiltedmaple.jpg, but a little darker).
I also have a HT2C coming.

Now I'm starting to think about amplification. Right now I just have my Denon 4311CI, which I don't think will be sufficient for these power-hungry speakers. I am planning to keep using it as the pre-amp, as I like Audyssey XT32.

I'm looking at all sorts of price ranges, but wondering what I'd really get out of a more expensive amp. Plus, since I ended up quite a bit over my initial speaker budget, my wife's patience/understanding with spending a bunch of cash on an amp isn't so great.

E.g., what if I went with 3 Emotiva XPA-1s? Does anyone here run XPA-1s with SS8s?

Or I could save a bit and go with an XPR-5... or even more with an XPA-3 (though that may be pushing it a little too far...)

Or I could go with something more like the Spectron MKIII musician (no idea whether the upgrades on it are worth it--all the impressions I've read of it had the upgrades in place), and an XPA-1 or something for the center.

Or something else, not really all that informed about higher end amps.

In terms of wall power, I have 2 20A circuits, 2 subwoofers (Rythmik F15HPs) & all my AV stuff running on one, and a high-end gaming PC (which doubles as a HTPC) on the other (in HTPC use, shouldn't be using more than a couple hundred watts)
Do I need to be concerned about wall power here?

Thanks!

I'd be aligned to the choice of the XPA-5 for the higher power.

For another option - Also take a look at Wyred4Sound & D-Sonic Class D amps - very smooth and powerful...

I am running my SoundScape M7's with an older D-Sonic 500w x 3, 250 x 2 - tons of juice & they sound fantastic...
http://www.d-sonic.net/products/3-channel-amplifiers/

Might be something your interested in.... Ice amps are great in the bass dept...

I have both the Wyred4Sound and D-Sonic Ice amps with 500w modules... IMO they are identical in sound signature and performance...

FWIW, BigRedMachine / PAD approves of the Wyred amps....


You'll be fine on the 20a circuits.... I drive 5 speakers with my 7 channel Wyred Amp on a 20 amp circuit, my subs on the other hand are another story. I have 3 x 30 amp circuits for my subs alone... Nuance can fill ya in on those monsters...

Well I had a fantastic experience with SALK at the RMAF. I'm seriously considering picking up some "supercharged" song towers or the HT2-TL's. I'll use them primarily for 2 channel music, I've got a sub, the SVS PB12-NSD if I really need it. While it's not particularly musical it doesn't suck.
Anyone have any thoughts or recommendations on what SALK they'd use for 2 channel music if you didn't want to run a sub? Not only did I come away thoroughly impressed with SALK but my friend did as well. Stunned was the best way to describe what we heard for the money. I'm planning to get rid of my SWAN diva main's and replace them with something from SALK. At some point I'll probably do the center channel as well. Although it'll probably be the songtower center.
I would probably power them initially with my Yamaha V1700 and then eventually a dedicated amp....eventually a pre-amp, etc. My first priorities would be getting the speakers and probably an SACD player but am open to rethinking anything.

Here's the downstairs layout


And the top floor game/theater room with my proposed placement of the system.




Any thoughts? Recommendations?
Edited by 6SpeedTA95 - 10/16/12 at 8:03am

You mean the XPR-5? It does 400/600 into 8/4 ohms all channels driven, 500/750 into 8/4 with 2 channels driven.
By contrast, the XPA-1 does 500/1000 into 8/4.

Also, the XPA-1 has a higher S/N ratio (>100dB @ 1 watt, >117dB @ full load), vs 93/109 with the XPR-5. I read somewhere that >100dB noise ratio is desirable, but I haven't confirmed this myself, as I don't have various amps to demo.

The wyred amps look interesting--very light (the SX1000 is 14lbs!?!), but good power output (though I wish they listed <.1% THD instead of at .2%THD). I'm curious how those would compare with the emotiva XPA-1... obviously a lot more efficient.

What's your budget and how big is your room? If I were looking at 2-channel I'd start with the SS8, though you get into the 5-figure range pretty quickly there. The HT2-TL is a great speaker if you have the room for it. I don't, which is why I have the Supercharged SongTowers (and matching center). No regrets here.

I wouldn't pick up a Salk then a ST center. You want the center to match the mains. I think any salk speaker can be run nicely for 2 channel music without a sub. That's my plan. I went with SCST. If you add a center, you can go SC songcenter.

There are many good choices out there:

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/multi-ch-earthquake-cinenova-grande-5-channel-amplifier-brand-new-2012-10-04-amplifiers-85233


http://app.audiogon.com/listings/multi-ch-parasound-a51-5x250-watt-multi-channel-amp-2012-10-14-amplifiers-85308-glendale-az

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/solid-state-wyred-4-sound-sx-1000-mk2-new-570-watt-mono-amps-2012-10-08-amplifiers-93422

http://www.adcom-usa.com/gfa-7805

I have an Adcom 7705 that I bought on audiogon in 2009 and I have no complaints.

Cheers,
OldMovieNut

Hey boys! We're half way home about to leave Des Moines. Keep up the good work. The SS8's are big dogs. Go big or go....... Wrt amps and source!

Sorry Yes - I meant the XPR 5....

I'd suggest you try not to read too far into those THD numbers.... They are extremely clean sounding amps and you'd be hard pressed to find a flaw in them....
Now if you can't seem to walk away from the extreme scrutinizing of those numbers - you may like to think about all those guys out there that are running tube amps - and you will quickly start to come to the conclusion that each and every one of them must be out of their minds because the distortion numbers are out of this world - they must be insane..... When in reality tube amps can truly ring out the beauty in music in a very pleasant & acceptable way. TJHUB runs tube amps on his HT2-TL's and he has one of the best sounding rigs I have ever heard.


Here is a quick read thought on that, but there is more info out there.
http://large.stanford.edu/courses/2012/ph250/klopfer1/


I pm'd you a listing for a D-Sonic amp here, that is on avs for sale at a good price. Its a fantastic amp, and the exact one I run my SoundScapes with. Nuance can vouch for the SQ of my rig with that amp in the mix... If your trying to save some money its a great buy. and will hold its value if you want to sell it again. The wyred & d-sonic amps run extremely cool and rarely beyond warm and are efficient.

I posted pics with the approximate dimensions...Although a point of clarification on the upstairs gameroom where I plan to put all this its about 10 feet wide and the portion reserved for music/home theater is about 12 feet deep. I didn't draw it to scale so it looks more like it's 12 feet wide. The entire room though is bigger as noted.

I would use my PB12-NSD, I think it's a great sub and even pretty good for music unless I've been blinded by the SVS light

edit: somehow my pics disappeared, sorry about that. I've fixed the post. I meant to do some editing of the text and I guess I edited out the pictures.

Warpdrv says his system is on D-Sonic, which sounds the same to him as the W4S amps (I know both use ICEPower, from what I've read I think W4S tweaks a few other things?)
When you say you'd go with W4S, does that mean you would not choose a D-Sonic for some reason, or were you lumping those in there too?

I'm trying to avoid replacing my preamp (Denon 4311ci) for the following reasons:
- Audyssey MultiEQ XT32: no fuss room EQ, takes care of phasing my dual subs for me, I like the resulting overall sound much better than when I turn Audyssey off. (I do have room damping, still fiddling with how I should have it set up though...)
- Maybe thats the only reason

If I went with another preamp, I would have to pay much closer attention to room treatment (as I said, I have both bass traps & sound panels, but I'm not sure they are set up in an ideal fashion), and I'm guessing it would still not result in the same sound I can get with Audyssey.
:-/

Morik, sorry I didn't clarify that statement further....

My Wyred amp is a 7 channel amp 300x5, 4x250 for my large rig.... while the D-Sonic amp is only a 5channel amp 500x3 2x250 with my SoundScapes.... my bedroom is small and I only run 5 channels.

They use the same amp modules in both amp, and while Wyred claims they do extensive mods, after a/b ing those amps I, nor others could come to the conclusion they sounded any different.

In both my systems I run the Integra 80.3...


I'll let others add their comments on their impressions....

Warp

I support your approach as it is similar to mine. I have an Onkyo 5508 pre/pro and run two channel in "stereo" mode with Audyssey in and Dynamic EQ on. I still have work to do on room treatment. As it is now, sound is much preferable using Audyssey than "direct" mode. However, I have an external Bel Canto DAC2.5 that runs analog into the Onkyo and sound is markedly better than running digital into the Onkyo (this is despite using the Onkyo's Audyssey processing which converts back to digital, then to analog again - should be bad in theory, but my ears are the judge).

I have done quite a bit of experimenting with amps thanks to Audiogon and a trial period or two. I now have a Conrad-Johnson Premier 11A tube 70wpc amp (circa 1995) and a C-J 125wpc 2250A solid state. I have tried, in my system over some time with each and comparisons between, Emotiva UPA-1 monos, Bel Canto Ref1000M MkII monos, McCormack DNA-250, Pass Labs XA30.1. The C-J tube amp is my favorite, but among all of the solid state, the CJ 2250A and McCormack DNA-250 are my favorites. I found the Bel Canto dry and lacking musicality, though bass was excellent - they are considered some of the best implementations of the B&O ice amps. I was surprised that I couldn't get the edge out of the Pass Labs amp. The McCormack is suprisingly smooth and dynamic. The CJ2250A is even smoother, though it starts to shade a bit towards the warmth side of the analytical vs. dark dichotomy. It is more to my tastes, though I bought it from someone who preferred a McCormack DNA-225 over it for the "slam." (I have the McCormack for sale on Audiogon, by the way, if anyone is interested).

Are you sure Audyssey has to convert to digital to process? (Is it not possible to EQ an analogue signal? If you have channel trims, must those be applied to a digital signal? I would assume you could lower the amplitude of an analog signal just fine...)

Hmm, maybe I will look into a DAC.

Fairly certain. I recall reading it somewhere with credibility. But I'd be glad to hear otherwise from someone who clearly knows.

Yes. Audyssey, and virtually any other room correction SW, processes signals digitally.

Channel trims could be done in digital or analog domain; seems like I have seen both ways, though these days the analog trims are still controlled digitally.

Of course you could buy an analog equalizer and insert between preamp and power amp if you have the option and so choose. The room correction Audyssey does goes far beyond frequency EQ, however.

Thanks DonH50 - some of what is set when Audyssey runs is set by the AVR and still in effect even when running in Direct mode (ie, analog), eg, xover point to sub, distances & levels. Do you know what else Audyssey sets that would be in digital domain and disabled when in Direct?

Given that, how is it possible that an external DAC could help? If the AVR mangles digital to analog conversion, I don't see how a DAC would be beneficial, given that the same AVR DAC will have to convert it again anyway...