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The Official Salk Sound Owner's And Discussion Thread - Page 275

post #8221 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nuance View Post

Here's a pic, by the way.


ri-ebony-cu.jpg 192k .jpg file

...and now i hate you... *must own...must own...*

I would forget the Illuminator AND the HT1.

I would ask Jim for a custom bookshelf MLTL with the RAAL 70-20XR and Seas W15CY001 crossed at ~2khz. smile.gif

The SuperCharged SongBookshelf wink.gif
post #8222 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkish54 View Post

I would ask Jim for a custom bookshelf MLTL with the RAAL 70-20XR and Seas W15CY001 crossed at ~2khz. smile.gif

The SuperCharged SongBookshelf wink.gif

I'm not sure if it was this thread or on another forum but, if I'm not mistaken, he said he had been expecting someone to ask for exactly that and, if ordered for a home theater setup, would get the design and testing done in time to ship along with the SCSTs and SCSC.

Edit:

Just to make sure I wasn't making this up, I went and found the post: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=110298.msg1138385#msg1138385
Edited by dmsdms - 2/25/13 at 2:29pm
post #8223 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkish54 View Post

...and now i hate you... *must own...must own...*

I would forget the Illuminator AND the HT1.

I would ask Jim for a custom bookshelf MLTL with the RAAL 70-20XR and Seas W15CY001 crossed at ~2khz. smile.gif

The SuperCharged SongBookshelf wink.gif

Hmmmm Not sure how you're going to get a transmission line inside that tiny bookshelf cabinet. And I think the Illuminator is going to have a lot more power handling than the w15.
post #8224 of 9127
An MLTL doesn't necessarily need a divider, no? MLTL (unless you use a divider) is pretty much a ported box with stuffing. An MLTL just signifies you chose the driver and port location with 1/4 wavelength resonances in mind. I could be very incorrect.

Which Illuminator is being used?

The Seas W18 in the HT1 has 100w PE and 5mm of xmax. The W15 has 70w PE and 4mm of xmax. Power handling will suffer a bit. Do you think it would be drastic enough to be a deal breaker? smile.gif
Edited by Monkish54 - 2/25/13 at 3:12pm
post #8225 of 9127
Why would you prefer Seas over Illuminator? Or only with a TL? (I'm new to all this...)
post #8226 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by yyz67 View Post

Why would you prefer Seas over Illuminator? Or only with a TL? (I'm new to all this...)

The Seas is more sensitive than the Illuminator, costs less, and maybe, just maybe, has a little more midrange detail. The Illuminator goes lower, handles more power (and needs more) and maybe, just maybe, has a little more laid back midrange that some might like. It all kind of depends on what you want. But you're not going to get a TL out of that little box. Not one that will have any bass benefits, anyhow.
post #8227 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

The Seas is more sensitive than the Illuminator, costs less, and maybe, just maybe, has a little more midrange detail. The Illuminator goes lower, handles more power (and needs more) and maybe, just maybe, has a little more laid back midrange that some might like. It all kind of depends on what you want. But you're not going to get a TL out of that little box. Not one that will have any bass benefits, anyhow.

C'mon Dennis, think Bose Wave!
They get a real big sound out of a toaster that has a bunch electronic junk in it, right?

In all seriousness your description of the difference between the Seas and the Scan Speak drivers was um, illuminating.
Thanks.
post #8228 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by yyz67 View Post

Why would you prefer Seas over Illuminator? Or only with a TL? (I'm new to all this...)

I'd go Seas. More sensitive, cheaper, very similar distortion specs.

Dennis, I say MLTL because of this:

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/showthread.php?215363-Ml-Tl&p=1614695#post1614695
(Post 6)

For all intents and purposes, i'm talking about a regular ported box. smile.gif
post #8229 of 9127
Yeah that Illuminator monitor looks awesome, unfortunately quite a bit out of my price range wink.gif and according to Zaph the measurements for the illuminator arent even as good as the ones for the cheaper revelator.

This is one of the reasons i was heavily considering the Frits Rev 7, looks like a pretty solid monitor even though the carbon 7 gets all the press.
post #8230 of 9127
Hi guys selling my soundscapes floorstanding 7's. Posted pictures early on the thread. Great speakers will sell for 4700 plus shipping. They were Jim Salk speakers. PM me if you want.

Thanks Michael
post #8231 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoupRknowva View Post

Yeah that Illuminator monitor looks awesome, unfortunately quite a bit out of my price range wink.gif and according to Zaph the measurements for the illuminator arent even as good as the ones for the cheaper revelator.

""Zaph measurements"" don't tell the whole story, especially not if you're only looking at the typical "harmonic distortion" stuff.

The underhung illuminators are very linear drivers even when driven with complex material that will force them into long throws.

THe Illuminator 12MU and 18WU measured amazingly in the klippels,
post #8232 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Velocity View Post

""Zaph measurements"" don't tell the whole story, especially not if you're only looking at the typical "harmonic distortion" stuff.

The underhung illuminators are very linear drivers even when driven with complex material that will force them into long throws.

THe Illuminator 12MU and 18WU measured amazingly in the klippels,

Out of curiosity, would you go with Illuminator or Seas W15/W18?
Edited by Monkish54 - 3/7/13 at 2:32pm
post #8233 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Monkish54 View Post

Out of curiosity, would you go with Illuminator or Seas W15/W18?

Probably the metal driver with the pretty copper phase plug. Not that I'm sure there's any useful audible difference in that upper midrange passband. Dennis or Jim would know better than I.

But I bet the scanspeak takes an edge when cranked.
post #8234 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

The Seas is more sensitive than the Illuminator, costs less, and maybe, just maybe, has a little more midrange detail. The Illuminator goes lower, handles more power (and needs more) and maybe, just maybe, has a little more laid back midrange that some might like. It all kind of depends on what you want. But you're not going to get a TL out of that little box. Not one that will have any bass benefits, anyhow.

Dennis, thanks for that. How different it the sensitivity between the Illuminator and Seas in practice? Would the Seas break up much sooner (SPL-wise--albeit maybe at different power)?

And same question to you if you don't mind: for a small front-ported monitor, would you go RAAL (or other) + Illuminator or Seas (or other) for overall sound quality?
post #8235 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by yyz67 View Post

Dennis, thanks for that. How different it the sensitivity between the Illuminator and Seas in practice? Would the Seas break up much sooner (SPL-wise--albeit maybe at different power)?

And same question to you if you don't mind: for a small front-ported monitor, would you go RAAL (or other) + Illuminator or Seas (or other) for overall sound quality?

There's a significant difference in sensitivity--around 2.5 dB, prhaps a smidge less. That would require almost twice the amplifier power to driver the Scan to the same level as the Seas. I'm not sure what you mean by "break up," but the Seas will bottom out sooner than the Scan. The Scan has a linear cone excursion of 9 mm in one directioin. The Seas is only 4 mm in one direction. I can't recommend one over the other for pure fidelity at moderate drive levels. That requires a very carefully controlled test, and I've only been able to construct one such test that I placed any confidence in. When we were developing the SoundScape series, we tried out a number of midranges, and came down to the Accuton and an equally expensive Skaaning midwoofer with a very different cone material (ceramic vs. polypropylene). I optimized crossovers for each midrange that hit the same target slopes and overall frequency response. I shipped Jim my instant A-B volume-compensated switching amps and flew up to Michigan to listen with a bunch of other audio nuts to identical pairs of SS10's except for the midrange. It really didn't take us very long to decided that the Accuton was cleaner and more transparent than the Skaaning. Without a parallel test for the Illuminator vs. the Seas Excel, I really wouldn't venture a guess.
post #8236 of 9127
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

There's a significant difference in sensitivity--around 2.5 dB, prhaps a smidge less. That would require almost twice the amplifier power to driver the Scan to the same level as the Seas. I'm not sure what you mean by "break up," but the Seas will bottom out sooner than the Scan. The Scan has a linear cone excursion of 9 mm in one directioin. The Seas is only 4 mm in one direction. I can't recommend one over the other for pure fidelity at moderate drive levels. That requires a very carefully controlled test, and I've only been able to construct one such test that I placed any confidence in. When we were developing the SoundScape series, we tried out a number of midranges, and came down to the Accuton and an equally expensive Skaaning midwoofer with a very different cone material (ceramic vs. polypropylene). I optimized crossovers for each midrange that hit the same target slopes and overall frequency response. I shipped Jim my instant A-B volume-compensated switching amps and flew up to Michigan to listen with a bunch of other audio nuts to identical pairs of SS10's except for the midrange. It really didn't take us very long to decided that the Accuton was cleaner and more transparent than the Skaaning. Without a parallel test for the Illuminator vs. the Seas Excel, I really wouldn't venture a guess.

Would the bottoming out problem be mitigated by crossing to a subwoofer? Since we're talking about bookshelves I assume the speakers would be crossed, so that begs the question: does the increased power handling still come into play before extremely loud levels, say 100dB and less (what's your definition of moderate levels??)? If not, would the Seas be a better choice then?

I had the pleasure of hearing the Illuminator speaker at RMAF 2012 run full range, and it didn't stuggle in the least bit IMO, and I was honestly surprised by how punchy the speaker was, not to mention how deep it went. Not bad at all!!!
post #8237 of 9127
Sorry about hijacking the thread with my previous post. I tried calling Jim a couple times with no return call. Hopefully everthing is OK with him or his family. I tried in vain on audio circle to try to start a thread that I was selling my speakers Floorstanding SS 7's. Just think its more important to spend money on the house and family. Tired of trying to upgrade electronics to get the best possible sound and instead of just enjoying the music. IF someone can PM me on how to put my speakers for sale on audiocircle, I would be grateful.

Sorry again Michael
post #8238 of 9127
I noticed Jim has been taking a couple days to reply , I just figure he is busy but Jim has always answerd my emails . I did get a reply today from Jim just so you know he is okay .

Im trying not to bother him to much so he gets my stuff done lol smile.gif
post #8239 of 9127
post #8240 of 9127
Thread Starter 
Jim is having issues with his phones in the shop. They are working on resolving the issue, so no worries folks. For now E-mail him if you must get through ASAP.
post #8241 of 9127
Thread Starter 
Quote:

Sweet!
post #8242 of 9127
Sweet! Finally, a GTG I can attend.
post #8243 of 9127
Well I received my used Songtowers "RT" and all I can say is WOW. I bought them without ever hearing Salk speakers before. I just went by the word of others on AVS.

I am very happy:)

I will be a Salk user for a long time now.
post #8244 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by squid48072 View Post

Well I received my used Songtowers "RT" and all I can say is WOW. I bought them without ever hearing Salk speakers before. I just went by the word of others on AVS.

I am very happy:)

I will be a Salk user for a long time now.


Doh..are you the guy that bought the 5.0 Salk ST RT system on Audiogon? I will get you!
post #8245 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Newbie01 View Post

Doh..are you the guy that bought the 5.0 Salk ST RT system on Audiogon? I will get you!

I never saw that on audiogon when was this
post #8246 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by squid48072 View Post

Well I received my used Songtowers "RT" and all I can say is WOW. I bought them without ever hearing Salk speakers before. I just went by the word of others on AVS.

I am very happy:)

I will be a Salk user for a long time now.


Congrats mine are awesome also and my center should be here in the next 2 weeks cant wait I miss not having a center , what are you powering your set up with did you get a whole 5.0 setup ?
post #8247 of 9127
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by squid48072 View Post

Well I received my used Songtowers "RT" and all I can say is WOW. I bought them without ever hearing Salk speakers before. I just went by the word of others on AVS.

I am very happy:)

I will be a Salk user for a long time now.
Congrats and welcome to the Salk family! I'm very happy for you.
post #8248 of 9127
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aasen7 View Post

Sorry about hijacking the thread with my previous post. I tried calling Jim a couple times with no return call. Hopefully everthing is OK with him or his family. I tried in vain on audio circle to try to start a thread that I was selling my speakers Floorstanding SS 7's. Just think its more important to spend money on the house and family. Tired of trying to upgrade electronics to get the best possible sound and instead of just enjoying the music. IF someone can PM me on how to put my speakers for sale on audiocircle, I would be grateful.

Sorry again Michael
Didn't you just buy those? Why are you selling them?
post #8249 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

There's a significant difference in sensitivity--around 2.5 dB, prhaps a smidge less. That would require almost twice the amplifier power to driver the Scan to the same level as the Seas. I'm not sure what you mean by "break up," but the Seas will bottom out sooner than the Scan. The Scan has a linear cone excursion of 9 mm in one directioin. The Seas is only 4 mm in one direction. I can't recommend one over the other for pure fidelity at moderate drive levels. That requires a very carefully controlled test, and I've only been able to construct one such test that I placed any confidence in. When we were developing the SoundScape series, we tried out a number of midranges, and came down to the Accuton and an equally expensive Skaaning midwoofer with a very different cone material (ceramic vs. polypropylene). I optimized crossovers for each midrange that hit the same target slopes and overall frequency response. I shipped Jim my instant A-B volume-compensated switching amps and flew up to Michigan to listen with a bunch of other audio nuts to identical pairs of SS10's except for the midrange. It really didn't take us very long to decided that the Accuton was cleaner and more transparent than the Skaaning. Without a parallel test for the Illuminator vs. the Seas Excel, I really wouldn't venture a guess.

Dennis, cool story about the origin of the SS mid...thanks!

However, I'm confused because I have the following figures for Salk 2-way bookshelf speakers:
  • WOW1: Seas W12 @ 83dB (salksound.com)
  • Ellis 1801b: Seas W18 @ 84dB (per email from Jim)
  • HT1: Seas W18 @ 85dB (salksound.com)
  • New "Silk" 2-way: Illuminator @ 86dB (per Jim's email: "The sensitivity is rated at 86db, but it is probably a tad lower")

I understand the tuning/x-over can change the raw speaker sensitivity, but do the numbers above seem correct as implemented in their respective speakers?

Thanks!
post #8250 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by a1usedcomp View Post

I never saw that on audiogon when was this

It was gone in a blink... Only $2650 for full 5.0 ST.

http://app.audiogon.com/listings/full-range-salk-songtower-w-ribbon-tweeter-songcenter-and-songsurround-i-s-2013-02-18-speakers-77382-spring-tx
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