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The Official Salk Sound Owner's And Discussion Thread - Page 290

post #8671 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat315" url="/t/939744/the-official-salk-sound-owners-and-discussion-thread/8640#post_23326787" 

"Yes, I have a paradigm sub I mostly hear the sub when watching movies but when listening to music I don't hear the sub. When listening to music the reciever has PCM symbol on and the lrc symbol."

^
I have an Onkyo… so other receivers may be different.

But, if I have a 2 channel PCM source.. there are basically 3 types of listening modes (well more than 3… but we will keep it a little simpler). It can convert the 2.0 input to several variations of 5.1 using Dolby Pro Logic II and also a few custom modes. The second major way is that it can be set to convert it to a 2.1 setting based upon the Audyssey speaker settings and x-over point. The third thing it can do is send the output in the 'Direct' mode to the stereo speakers… by-passing the audyssey settings and it doesn't use the Subwoofer at all. When I set up Audyssey, I set the speakers to small. Audyssey decided it would set the x-cover to the sub at 50Hz. I don't have SongTowers, but my -3db rating on my speakers is 42Hz like the SongTowers. I have found that on most music there isn't a lot of output below the 50Hz setting…. certainly some… but much less than on movies. Some would argue, and they may be right, that manually setting the x-over to 80Hz would be better… but I like what I am getting now… so I haven't messed with it.
post #8672 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by a1usedcomp View Post

The Denon 4520CI or Marantz AV8801 I have both and they are both nice . I have also owned pretty much every Emotiva amp and the best move I made was getting away from the Emotiva brand . You ordered some nice gear I would pair them with a better amp if your budget lets you .

Thanks for the pre/pro recommendations. I was wondering if you could elaborate a little on your amp comments. So far, I've been happy with my XPA-5 but I'm always interested in different opinions. What amps would recommend for the SS8's?

Of note, when I was at Salk Sound to tour and listen to the Soundscapes, Jim was powering his SS8 demos using an Emotiva XPA-2. I even asked him about it and he said he was very happy with it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R Swerdlow View Post

Congrats on the SS8s and center. When you hear these, I'm confident you'll experience a significant difference over what you have.
Jim is an excellent salesman and always tries to give the customer what he wants. In this case, I'd take Jim's advice. I think he's being polite by saying he's not sure there will be a perceivable difference.

Jim and Dennis Murphy are well aware of the often debated question of "upgrades" for capacitors and other crossover parts. I know for certain that Dennis has actively investigated these questions. The SS8 is a very high quality speaker, and it's standard crossover parts will provide the best available sound quality.

If you really want to spend more on these speakers, I'd suggest a more expensive veneer or a customized finish biggrin.gif.

I've actually ordered some veneers. Two of my favorites that Jim actually suggested trying in a combo to match my room. I wanted a darker veneer for the subs. I've gone with the burled pepperwood for the Soundscapes and spalted bees wing makore for the subs. Can't wait to see how they look.

-Eric
post #8673 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by laulau View Post

@Fernando17,
Thanks for taking the time to write up your experiences, sounds like you're really enjoying your SS8's. You've inspired me to get started on my own review of my ST RAALs.

BTW, lucky you live Hawaii. wink.gif

That makes two of us biggrin.gif
post #8674 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdgate View Post

Jim doesn't have to be a salesman... He has all the owners of his speakers to do it for him! I for one can't wait to join the party. Seriously, when I read through threads here on the forums it seems like nuance, saturn94, and all the other owners have helped a lot of people discover Salk speakers who otherwise would never have even knew they existed.

Usually the saying goes make a customer happy the will tell a few friends about it, make a customer angry they will tell everyone about it. I think Jim found a way to make the happy customer tell everyone which is a testament to his product and service.
So true! I have yet to hear any Salk or Philharmonic speakers but I follow their respective forums because of the passion shown by their customers as well as the strong respect I have gained for Jim and Dennis. The Soundscape ranks among the top 3 of speakers I really want to hear some day.
post #8675 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by jima4a View Post

So true! I have yet to hear any Salk or Philharmonic speakers but I follow their respective forums because of the passion shown by their customers as well as the strong respect I have gained for Jim and Dennis. The Soundscape ranks among the top 3 of speakers I really want to hear some day.
Both companies are high end audio's little secret and have high growth potential but focus on sound quality and value first.My Phil 2's are the best thing about my HT and I hope to add a Salk subwoofer soon.
post #8676 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by rjmelkon View Post

Both companies are high end audio's little secret and have high growth potential but focus on sound quality and value first.My Phil 2's are the best thing about my HT and I hope to add a Salk subwoofer soon.
I think they are high end audio's little secret… but I am not sure about the high growth potential… Not that they couldn't see significant growth. But, I think both Jim and Dennis love helping people find the right speaker for them. While this makes me a person who would quickly find it desirable to buy a speaker from them… It isn't the formula that the mass marketer's such as Best Buy value… or even many boutique audio stores.
post #8677 of 9127
I think they are doing perfectly fine in the state they are in. If they get too large, the quality would drop, its much easier keeping quality high and prices right in small batches and ID.
post #8678 of 9127
Did you set you speakers small/xover?

CDs default to PCM or the player default to PCM. CD are only PCM or AC3. 16b 44.1k
I don't think that is your Subwoofer problem.
post #8679 of 9127
I ordered some SongBirds and a Supercharged SongCenter to match my SCSTs and Salk/Rythmik sub and they just arrived today. Once again Jim has done some amazing work and I thought I'd post a picture.

post #8680 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericmj View Post

Thanks for the pre/pro recommendations. I was wondering if you could elaborate a little on your amp comments. So far, I've been happy with my XPA-5 but I'm always interested in different opinions. What amps would recommend for the SS8's?

Of note, when I was at Salk Sound to tour and listen to the Soundscapes, Jim was powering his SS8 demos using an Emotiva XPA-2. I even asked him about it and he said he was very happy with it.
I've actually ordered some veneers. Two of my favorites that Jim actually suggested trying in a combo to match my room. I wanted a darker veneer for the subs. I've gone with the burled pepperwood for the Soundscapes and spalted bees wing makore for the subs. Can't wait to see how they look.

-Eric


I probably shouldn't of blurted out not to use an Emotiva amp , I just prefer the sound of the Wyred or D Sonic amps . This is just my personal opinion
post #8681 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsdms View Post

I ordered some SongBirds and a Supercharged SongCenter to match my SCSTs and Salk/Rythmik sub and they just arrived today. Once again Jim has done some amazing work and I thought I'd post a picture.



Awesome
post #8682 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmsdms View Post

I ordered some SongBirds and a Supercharged SongCenter to match my SCSTs and Salk/Rythmik sub and they just arrived today. Once again Jim has done some amazing work and I thought I'd post a picture.

Have you had a chance to listen to those SongBirds yet? How big of a room are you using them in?

PS Is the tall beast on the left, the sub?
post #8683 of 9127
That would be his left main, not the sub. wink.gif
post #8684 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cvetan1 View Post

That would be his left main, not the sub. wink.gif
ok, he has 4 song birds then… He needs to show that right main as well. I had seen some subs in a vertical tube… so I thought maybe Jim made a vertical box…. Thanks:cool:
post #8685 of 9127
Well, the other main is on the other side of the room. tongue.gif
post #8686 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by a1usedcomp View Post

I probably shouldn't of blurted out not to use an Emotiva amp , I just prefer the sound of the Wyred or D Sonic amps . This is just my personal opinion

This comment is a FAR cry from "the best move I made was getting away from the Emotiva brand." I, as well as probably a lot of other people in this thread, want to know what you really meant. I'm considering the UMC-200 and XPA-5 to replace my Denon AVR-5800 (old, no HDMI connectivity) as I figured separates must be better than any integrated receiver in the same price category, but you seem to disagree. Please elaborate.

Thanks,
Chad
post #8687 of 9127
I can think of a few... HEAT, power and efficiency. The D-sonics double down into 4ohms. Also, the D-sonics are made in the USA, compared to the Chinese Emotiva. Arguably more reliable to boot.
post #8688 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by D54Smith View Post

Have you had a chance to listen to those SongBirds yet? How big of a room are you using them in?

PS Is the tall beast on the left, the sub?

The SongBirds are being used as surrounds and wides so I haven't played music on them but, the system sounds fantastic. The room is oddly shaped but, it's about 24' x 12'. I'm powering everything with a 250W x 7 channel Wyred4Sound amp and Onkyo 818 as a preamp. I don't think the SongBirds will quite do reference level even with that much power but, it's rare for me to go above -15dB and they will handle that with ease.
post #8689 of 9127
I am sure that most of you have seen that Home Theater Review did a review on the Salk Soundscape 10. In general, I thought it was fair, but I was a little surprised at the 3 star rating in the Value category. I have made a list below of his negative comments and put in parenthesis the category that I think it should relate to. Hopefully we can be objective and learn and not provide just a 'Fan Boy' reaction.
  • "The soundstage did not seem hugely expansive. If you're looking for a speaker to trick you with its soundstage presentation into thinking that you are actually sitting in a giant stadium or concert hall, these may not be the right choice for you." (Performance)

    This could be true, but he gave a 5 star on performance…so.... But I wonder if he did the best job of setting the speakers up since midrange configuration is different than on most high end speakers. Although, at times, I wonder if the super wide soundstage comes from peaks or abnormalities in FR, or maybe dispersion. Just my own pet theory at this point.
  • "To get this level of bass extension into a speaker cabinet of reasonable size requires a beefy power amp. I wouldn't go with anything under 200 watts, but the more power you can bring your system, the better. If you want a SET amp as your next upgrade, look elsewhere." (Value)

    Most people spending over $4k on a pair of speakers will put a pretty hefty amp on them any way. Get over it.
  • "Compared with other speakers in this lofty price class, the resale value on Salk products isn't quite as strong as that of, say, Wilson Audio, MartinLogan, or Bowers & Wilkins." (Value)

    One comment on the review talked about a 75% held value Salk Soundscape. That seems pretty good to me…but I don't know what a Bower and Wilkins 800D series speaker will do. Certainly more brand recognition on B&W which will help with resale. What happens to Salk Signature Sound after Jim retires? Does that affect resale?

He also makes reference to more exotic finishes on competitive speakers… wow, I am not sure how you get more exotic that what Jim can do with any veneer and the use of any dye that you can buy. Maybe the reviewer is biased because he doesn't like the shape of the soundscape? I don't particularly care for the shape either, but I understand from a sound perspective. I actually prefer the Philharmonic 'Church Steeple' look. Although, I am fine with the Soundscape 8
post #8690 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by D54Smith View Post

I am sure that most of you have seen that Home Theater Review did a review on the Salk Soundscape 10. In general, I thought it was fair, but I was a little surprised at the 3 star rating in the Value category. I have made a list below of his negative comments and put in parenthesis the category that I think it should relate to. Hopefully we can be objective and learn and not provide just a 'Fan Boy' reaction.
  • "The soundstage did not seem hugely expansive. If you're looking for a speaker to trick you with its soundstage presentation into thinking that you are actually sitting in a giant stadium or concert hall, these may not be the right choice for you." (Performance)

    This could be true, but he gave a 5 star on performance…so.... But I wonder if he did the best job of setting the speakers up since midrange configuration is different than on most high end speakers. Although, at times, I wonder if the super wide soundstage comes from peaks or abnormalities in FR, or maybe dispersion. Just my own pet theory at this point.
  • "To get this level of bass extension into a speaker cabinet of reasonable size requires a beefy power amp. I wouldn't go with anything under 200 watts, but the more power you can bring your system, the better. If you want a SET amp as your next upgrade, look elsewhere." (Value)

    Most people spending over $4k on a pair of speakers will put a pretty hefty amp on them any way. Get over it.
  • "Compared with other speakers in this lofty price class, the resale value on Salk products isn't quite as strong as that of, say, Wilson Audio, MartinLogan, or Bowers & Wilkins." (Value)

    One comment on the review talked about a 75% held value Salk Soundscape. That seems pretty good to me…but I don't know what a Bower and Wilkins 800D series speaker will do. Certainly more brand recognition on B&W which will help with resale. What happens to Salk Signature Sound after Jim retires? Does that affect resale?

He also makes reference to more exotic finishes on competitive speakers… wow, I am not sure how you get more exotic that what Jim can do with any veneer and the use of any dye that you can buy. Maybe the reviewer is biased because he doesn't like the shape of the soundscape? I don't particularly care for the shape either, but I understand from a sound perspective. I actually prefer the Philharmonic 'Church Steeple' look. Although, I am fine with the Soundscape 8



" the resale value on Salk products isn't quite as strong " Looks like they sell pretty quick to me http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?board=140.0
post #8691 of 9127
Thread Starter 
Good post, D54Smith. The OP was updated yesterday with a link to the review. I'm a disclosed Salk fan boy, so you probably won't be able to include my comments as a "non-fan boy reaction."smile.gif

As to the "negative comments," the resale value comment and exotic veneer comment is simple incorrect. Perhaps the reviewer failed to put in the research time... If you look at past sales on audiogon and Audio Circle you'll see Salk speakers hold their value better than most (even B&W). And I don't know about you guys, but I cannot name one other company that will offer any veneer you're willing to select and pay for, not to mention any driver combination and cabinet shape you want (in essence building you any speaker you desire).

Regarding the sound stage abilities of the SoundScape's, this characteristic is not only highly dependent on the speakers but also the room acoustics, also called "apparent source width" in Floyd Toole's book. The room reflections will greatly influence the sound stage. It would have been nice if the reviewer gave some information about his room and upstream electronics. Why? Because when you have a speaker that has good off-axis performance, first reflection point reflections can actually improve the sound stage width (apparent source width) depending on the setup/room. If the reviewer has those lateral first reflection points treated it could cripple the SoundScape's sound staging capabilities because their off-axis performance is so good.

The one "con" that I found to be 100% accurate was that the SS10's certainly require hefty amplification. At one of our GTG's the SS10's brought an amplifier rated over 200 watts into 8 Ohms to its knees, causing clipping (sounded like the driver was damaged, but it was actually clipping from the amplifier). The more power the better when you're dealing with a low impedance, low sensitivity design. I wouldn't use anything less than 250 watts into 8 Ohms (at least 400 into 4 Ohms).

The reviewer's negative comment section seemed forced to me, as if he had to try hard to think of some, most of which either aren't factually true or are dependent on other things besides the speakers. He also contradicts himself by scoring the speakers a three for the value category while saying numerous times in the review the SoundScape's performed well above their price class.

Overall a good review, albeit lacking in detail and specifics. He scored the SS10's a 5 out of 5 for performance, so 'nuff said.
post #8692 of 9127
It says that's his first review for HTR and for all I know it's his first review ever so it's hard to put any significance on it. Interestingly, in his associated equipment, it says he owns the 12's, which makes the comment regarding finish options peculiar.
post #8693 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by D54Smith View Post

What happens to Salk Signature Sound after Jim retires? Does that affect resale?

That was my biggest concern before I ordered SCSTs...not so much regarding resale value, but whether I would be able to get some ordered before he retired!
Edited by Ace Deprave - 5/22/13 at 8:18am
post #8694 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai View Post

It says that's his first review for HTR and for all I know it's his first review ever so it's hard to put any significance on it. Interestingly, in his associated equipment, it says he owns the 12's, which makes the comment regarding finish options peculiar.

It's well to bear in mind that this was, to the best of my knowledge, the first Internet-direct speaker to be reviewed there. The magazine has lots of brick and mortar advertisers, and I feel lucky that so many positive comments made it into print. The failure to mention the open-back design and the premium nature of the midrange and tweeter drivers is a little peculiar, though.
post #8695 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

It's well to bear in mind that this was, to the best of my knowledge, the first Internet-direct speaker to be reviewed there. The magazine has lots of brick and mortar advertisers, and I feel lucky that so many positive comments made it into print. The failure to mention the open-back design and the premium nature of the midrange and tweeter drivers is a little peculiar, though.
They have reviewed at least a couple Aperion speakers/systems.

Not that it gives them any more credit. smile.gif
post #8696 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdeye11 View Post

This comment is a FAR cry from "the best move I made was getting away from the Emotiva brand." I, as well as probably a lot of other people in this thread, want to know what you really meant. I'm considering the UMC-200 and XPA-5 to replace my Denon AVR-5800 (old, no HDMI connectivity) as I figured separates must be better than any integrated receiver in the same price category, but you seem to disagree. Please elaborate.

Thanks,
Chad

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=emporium&action=display&thread=30845

I'm sure the UMC-200 will no different than the UMC-100 and what happened to the XMC-1 ? As for the amps for the money they are decent but everyone I know that tried a different amp never went back
to a Emotiva amp

Also I feel the only reason Emotiva ever dropped the price on the UMC-1 and added no returns to the sale was to get rid of a product they knew was garbage
How many people came home with a smoke filled house from the CD players they purchased ? No thanks I would rather pay more and get a better product
Edited by a1usedcomp - 5/22/13 at 10:29am
post #8697 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Murphy View Post

It's well to bear in mind that this was, to the best of my knowledge, the first Internet-direct speaker to be reviewed there. The magazine has lots of brick and mortar advertisers, and I feel lucky that so many positive comments made it into print. The failure to mention the open-back design and the premium nature of the midrange and tweeter drivers is a little peculiar, though.

A personal bias but I've never put much stock in reviews from that site. NO measurements, as you mentioned the blatant inconsistencies, lack of any real detail on the product reviewed as if they never talk to anyone at the vendor to get some inside info or better insight into the product.
Far prefer Secrets, Home Theater, Stereophile or Audioholics.
post #8698 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdeye11 View Post

This comment is a FAR cry from "the best move I made was getting away from the Emotiva brand." I, as well as probably a lot of other people in this thread, want to know what you really meant. I'm considering the UMC-200 and XPA-5 to replace my Denon AVR-5800 (old, no HDMI connectivity) as I figured separates must be better than any integrated receiver in the same price category, but you seem to disagree. Please elaborate.

Thanks,
Chad

My suggestion would be to check Emotiva product reviews etc.
There are lot of people who are very happy with Emotiva gear and their customer service.
Many people have a bias against Chinese sourced audio gear but I see that you have Denon so.....
post #8699 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milt99 View Post

My suggestion would be to check Emotiva product reviews etc.
There are lot of people who are very happy with Emotiva gear and their customer service.
Many people have a bias against Chinese sourced audio gear but I see that you have Denon so.....

I suppose this isn't the right thread, but are any other Salk owners familiar with UMC-200 substitutes? I'm curious of any competitors in a similar (or higher) price point for surround sound, HDMI switching, and other processing duties? I'd like to look at items up to $1,200.
post #8700 of 9127
Quote:
Originally Posted by thirdeye11 View Post

I suppose this isn't the right thread, but are any other Salk owners familiar with UMC-200 substitutes? I'm curious of any competitors in a similar (or higher) price point for surround sound, HDMI switching, and other processing duties? I'd like to look at items up to $1,200.

I am not familiar with UMC-200 substitutes at the price range of the UMC-200. Frankly given Emotiva history with their delayed XMC-1 (for over a year) the problems they have had with their pre/pro's basically being released in a beta state I would stear clear. I have heard better things about their amps though. Why not get an AVR that has the pre/pro functions you want (audyssey etc.) and get an external amp to run with it. You could still hit your $1200 range doing that. Let the AVR power the surrounds and get a nice 3 channel amp for the LCR.
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