SSP & Pre/Pros that support HDMI Audio MPCM - Page 11

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

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I'm an Outlaw customer, and their new processor would certainly be of interest. But the goal post seems to be moving down the field everytime I turn around, and now it's "early winter." - Maybe.

I've spent a substantial amount of time dutifully following this and other similar discussions for several months, and perhaps someone could provide some suggestions. - One of my primary interests is getting a pre/pro or ATM with sufficiently good audio to permit me to use it as an all-in-one audio/video preamp and processor, replacing my present preamp, and using the new unit for both HDTV, stereo and mult-channel audio, and also processing SACD (probably received in PCM rather than DSD). I would also like to be able to use it for video, incl. processing lossless audio codecs when they are available on more Blu-ray players. Perhaps the main difference between my wish list and others I see discussed on the forum is that I have a fairly extensive set of speakers (Maggies), and I'm more concerned with audio quality. -

I have been considering the Integra 885 or Onkyo 885, or one of the Onkyo AVRs, and also the NAD T175, which seems to have a more sophisticated audio section (with an additional Audessey response curve) but less versatile processing. - Does anyone have suggestions on any of these options, or should I plan on waiting another six to eight months for some of the new models, such as the Outlaw, or the S/N, to be released? Or should I simply give up the idea of getting a single processor combining good audio and video processing?

Thanks,
Jim Cate

Originally Posted by MarketingProf

Why do you want a single unit? Space, cost, convenience, etc.? Depending on the reason I personally think there are different solutions, but good ones.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Actually, I'm open to suggestions. My thought was that it would be helpful and WAF if I could eliminate several of my older components, including my Carver stereo preamp and older, non-HDMI AVR.

But what do you (or anyone else) suggest, that would retain good audio SRQ?

Jim

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Actually, I'm open to suggestions. My thought was that it would be helpful and WAF if I could eliminate several of my older components, including my Carver stereo preamp and older, non-HDMI AVR.

But what do you (or anyone else) suggest, that would retain good audio SRQ?

Jim

Originally Posted by MarketingProf

Well, if your trying to save money, Kal Rubinson (Sterophile) gave a terrific review of the Integra 9.8 ($1600) for digital sources (he said it set a new bar for price/performance in the category). And my experiences are similar with the unit. Match that with a good analog preamp with HT bypass ($2500) and you've got an under $4k system (at street prices) that will be a very nice sounding system. All digital goes to the 9.8 via HDMI, and all analog through the analog preamp direct to the amps.

If you've got more money to spend, then other options open up, but IMHO you have to have significantly more money to spend to get significantly better sound.

Originally Posted by RebelMan

What is your budget approximately? That will narrow or broaden your choices.

Originally Posted by MarketingProf

Well, if your trying to save money, Kal Rubinson (Sterophile) gave a terrific review of the Integra 9.8 ($1600) for digital sources (he said it set a new bar for price/performance in the category). And my experiences are similar with the unit. Match that with a good analog preamp with HT bypass ($2500) and you've got an under $4k system (at street prices) that will be a very nice sounding system. All digital goes to the 9.8 via HDMI, and all analog through the analog preamp direct to the amps.

If you've got more money to spend, then other options open up, but IMHO you have to have significantly more money to spend to get significantly better sound.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I have read Kal's article several times and discussed aspects of it with him. As understood, he was enthusiastic about the combination of the DTC-9.8 and the Oppo 980H when used in a digital format, particularly when feeding SACD in PCM format from the Oppo 980 to the Integra in HDMI. As further understood, he wasn't as enthusiastic with the Integra when used as a "pure analog multichannel" (or stereo?) preamp. - Although as he points out, the alternatives (Cary, NHT Controller processors) are substantially more expensive. So the combination of the two components (perhaps substituting the new Oppo 983 for the 980) is very attractive. But my original note asked whether other HDMI pre/pros exist (such as the NAD 175) that would also provide good analog response when used as an analog preamp, in addition to the HDMI-based digital functions.

Apparently the answer is no, unless an additional by-pass capable multi-channel preamp is also included, and price is of minimal concern. Jim

Originally Posted by MarketingProf

Agreed, the analog processing of the 9.8 is not as good as it could be.

But, let's not forget that less costly analog preamps are available, especially if one is willing to consider a used unit, which can bring the total cost down to under $3k or even $2.5k total.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I'm curious as to what kind of system you have in mind. As I understand it, your proposed system would use analog preamp(s) for audio and also an HDMI preamp, such as the Integra 9.8, for digital audio or video. But how would the circuit be set up for switching from the analog component(s) (either stereo or multi-channel) to the Integra unit for digital (PCM-SACD or video, etc.)? I have an older SS preamp (a Carver C-1) that I like, and as previously stated, I can probably get get two more used preamps if that would be appropriate for analog multi-channel. But I'm not clear on how you would connect the several components for convenient switching between the analog components (preamp(s)) and the HTMI digital pre/pro or receiver. Such "legacy" preamps don't have HDMI bypass provisions, for example.

Jim

Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson

I know I am not the only one who said so but I am a bit sorry that this business about the analog-input performance of the 9.8 has become such a buzz. It's not terrible but the issue feeds the old bias that a processor cannot be as good as an analog preamp, even when the circuitry involved is purely analog. In addition, many people wouldn't care or notice unless someone points it out to them. Some of us no longer have any analog sources, anyway.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

But my original note asked whether other HDMI pre/pros exist (such as the NAD 175) that would also provide good analog response when used as an analog preamp, in addition to the HDMI-based digital functions.

Apparently the answer is no, unless an additional by-pass capable multi-channel preamp is also included, and price is of minimal concern.

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I have read Kal's article several times and discussed aspects of it with him. As understood, he was enthusiastic about the combination of the DTC-9.8 and the Oppo 980H when used in a digital format, particularly when feeding SACD in PCM format from the Oppo 980 to the Integra in HDMI. As further understood, he wasn't as enthusiastic with the Integra when used as a "pure analog multichannel" (or stereo?) preamp. - Although as he points out, the alternatives (Cary, NHT Controller processors) are substantially more expensive. So the combination of the two components (perhaps substituting the new Oppo 983 for the 980) is very attractive. But my original note asked whether other HDMI pre/pros exist (such as the NAD 175) that would also provide good analog response when used as an analog preamp, in addition to the HDMI-based digital functions.

Apparently the answer is no, unless an additional by-pass capable multi-channel preamp is also included, and price is of minimal concern.

Jim

Originally Posted by RebelMan

There is a very promising one-box solution but unfortunately it exceeds your budget by $5K.

Originally Posted by RebelMan

There is a very promising one-box solution but unfortunately it exceeds your budget by $5K.

The cinema pass-through features of two-channel pre-amplifiers simplifies component setups but in practice I have found that they can introduce some unwanted artifacts and slight timber mismatches. If you are not likely to mind the sacrifices this arrangement can play on MCH audio sources (or you prefer 2CH) then it may be worth your while. But, if you are seeking an optimal balance between both types of sources then the extra effort to keep them separate or the extra expense needed to get you there with one device should receive more consideration.

Originally Posted by kal

Which one-box solution is that?

Kal

Originally Posted by alebonau

what ?? huh??

I have demoed god knows how many 2ch pre's with & without htbypass integrated in combined ht/av setups and not once that ''they can introduce some unwanted artifacts and slight timber mismatches.''

infact in my experiece its been quite the opposite. with no av pre-pro that I have found yet that can match the abilities and transperecy of dedicated 2ch pre's. and have found utilising a 2ch pre with avrs/av pre-pros in a combined setups to provide the best of both world's without sacrificing quality for either 2ch or ht av.

Originally Posted by RebelMan

They do, all of them but it varies in degree. For instance, the unity gain settings of some pre-amplifiers can introduce a higher noise floor. Some people are less perceptive to the issues especially with compressed audio sources but the subtleties during quite passages can be noticeable.

I suppose we have a huge disparity in discernment. I am very particular to color variations among equipment. Like brands mitigates the issues fairly well but not entirely. Mixed brands exacerbates the effects because the signal is traversing two distinct paths (that of the processor and that of the pre-amplifier) each with different acoustic signatures. Don't be fooled into thinking that a direct (by-pass) path is pure. It's not and none of them are.

In general, when pass-through configurations are used compromises to MCH playback have been necessary in order to optimize 2CH playback. People have understood and accepted the notion that MCH devices are not up to par with their 2CH counterparts. And it has been traditionally accepted practice to sacrifice movies for music. But with the advent of high-definition audio times are beginning to changing. A few new pre/pro's have adopted a new philosophy that MCH audio, digital or analog, no longer need be compromised for 2CH sources. It should be possible now days to have your cake and eat it to and some manufactures are developing solutions on the promise that it is.

Originally Posted by alebonau

and regards the promise of an ht av pre that is equal or supasses using a 2ch pre. heard all those promises before.

Originally Posted by yetis

What are these processor so BIG. You look in the Onkyo and there is a lot of open space.

Originally Posted by yetis

Why are these processors so BIG. You look in the Onkyo and there is a lot of open space. What is the smallest processor with HDMI MPCM? I ask as I am in NYC and I only have space for a full size media rack and I am running out of space in the rack (Home automation, server, power processor, UPS, etc).

Onkyo pro unit is a 4U unit, Ideally I would love a 2U unit, but 3U would really help.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Originally Posted by alebonau

dont think the nad t175 is that big ?

perhaps post the dimensions that are limits and then people can chime in with suggestions. not that there are that many new gen av pre's right now to choose from

Originally Posted by CINERAMAX

the mc12 is the smallest footprint, but that does not help you.