SSP & Pre/Pros that support HDMI Audio MPCM - Page 27

The specs of the ADA Cinema Rhapsody Mach IV flagship HT preamp controller are on the official website now:

http://www.ada.net/products/ht/cinem...sody_mach4.php


- Dolby TrueHD & DTS HD Master Audio
- Multi-Channel (192KHz/24 Bit) PCM Audio
- Full 7.1 EX/ES, THX Ultra 2, Dolby Pro Logic IIx, DTS Neo 6
- 8 HDMI Inputs with HDMI Equalization Settings per input
- 2 (Dual) Mirror HDMI Outputs with HDMI Equalization Settings
- Parametric Multi-Band Equalizer
- 8 Stereo Analog Audio Inputs
- 6 Digital Audio Coaxial Inputs
- 2 TOS-Link Optical Digital Audio Inputs
- 8 Channel DVD Audio/SACD Input With Bass Filters
- 8 Composite Video Inputs
- 8 S-Video Inputs
- 8 Component Video Inputs
- Analog And Digital Audio Record Outputs (2nd Zone)
- 2 Main And 2 Record (2nd Zone) Composite Video Outputs
- 2 Main Component Video Outputs
- Rear Panel Ethernet Connection (ADA Net)
- 2 Programmable Low Voltage Output Triggers
- ADA MX-900 (Universal Remote Control) Included At No Additional Charge
- 90-260Volts AC 50/60Hz 40 Watts
- 23 lbs 3.5"H x 19"W x 17.5"D


The "Trinnov" logo is on the front faceplate. The Mach IV looks mighty impressive by the look of things. Can't wait for user reviews.

Certainly look impressive but I question how seriously you can take a company that has SPELLING MISTAKES on the front display of their unit!



It's not "Blueray". It's "Blu-ray". It's also not a "Blueray DVD". It's simply a "Blu-ray". It's not "DVD". That's a different product. Sony's done a lot of work to brand Blu-ray for what it is and not as DVD - they don't want the word "DVD" used to describe Blu-ray.

They even do this on their site here:

http://www.ada.net/products/ht/cinem...sody_mach4.php

Where they say:


IMHO, pretty sad. If there's this little attention to detail to what you see on the outside, how much attention did they spend under the covers? It's one thing for the marketing guys to make a mistake on the website but when the techs who design and build the interface don't even know it's called "Blu-ray" how can anyone take this product seriously?

Kal

Sure. OTOH, I shopped around a lot when buying a kitchen range to find an acceptable one that spelled the word "Light" for ignition instead of "Lite" but, in the end, settled for one that suited my needs despite the misspelling. It works just fine that way.

The other Kal

I agree and I also question why they would have a PEQ option with the trinnov? It also states it has a DSP and analog bass crossover.

Kal,

It would be nice if you could get hold of one of these ADA Mach IV units for a review.

Because no automated room correction system is perfect and/or adjustable to the user's tastes. PEQ offers an alternative, which can yield preferable results if the user has the tools, patience and inclination to EQ manually. Wish more pre-pros had options like this.

I wouldn't read a lot into the images on that website, they look CG rather than actual product photos. Not saying the spelling mistake isn't in the production models but it might not be.

However it seems to be a common issue!



Adam

PEQ does not offer near the performance that audyssey or trinnov offer and a lot of people would disagree with you.

What's the difference in performance?

In practice, Audyssey and, I assume, Trinnov are automatic and not tweakable. A PEQ is and, of course, one can make it sound really crappy in the attempt to suit one's taste. OTOH, it would be nice to have the PEQ for "house curve" implementation superimposed on the room correction from Audyssey or Trinnov.

Plus PEQ is only good for on possition, I see it as usual in most audio applications where companies/people are afraid of new technology.

Too few samples and careless mic placement, and one can get really crappy sound from the auto-EQ systems as well. I don't feel that the ability to make things worse is a valid reason for not offer an option.
Sure, or even for doing some nominal correction, like knocking out a single pesky resonance. Even with the latest auto-EQ systems, it doesn't hurt to have a manual EQ option, like the kind in the ADA unit.

Agreed. I was pointing out the ups and the downs.

Really? So if someone were to find a room resonance using measuring software (like the free Room EQ Wizard) and minimize it using a PEQ (like the kind in your fave Classe processor), you're saying it would only be good for one position. But if Audyssey found the same resonance and minimized it, you're saying it would be good for other positions as well? Why?

BTW, after Audyssey processes the measurement information, what does it use to change the sound?

Audyssey depending on the version can measure far more then one listening position, what is so hard to understand about that?

The same can be done with measuring software and a mic moved around the room, in order to find problems that are common to multiple listening positions. How would treating those problems with a PEQ then be limited to only one listening position?

BTW, you still haven't answered my question, so I'll ask again: after Audyssey processes the measurement information, what does it use to change the sound?

Audyssey and others like them can use time domain correction in addition to freq EQ'ing. With Parametric EQ, no time domain adjustment is possible.

I agree though that using PEQ *in addition* to some other automated room EQ has a benefit. But do any current SSP's even give you that option? I thought most if not all of them were automated room EQ *or* manual PEQ?

I am sure if lexicon offered trinnov or audyssey you would be singing a different tune.

"With Parametric EQ, no time domain adjustment is possible."

If the problem is minimum phase (which room resonances are) correcting with PEQ does in fact correct time domain as well.

Shawn

Pre/Pros like the Onkyo 886 that offer the facility to use the Audyssey Pro kit do offer some manual adjustment, I have not used it so am not sure exactly how much freedom you have.

Adam

Nope.

Why are you evading my question? I'll ask for the third time: after Audyssey processes the measurement information, what does it use to change the sound?

It changes the level of the input signal, applies FIR Filters and I believe it also performs phase and delay corrections and of course they use their own algorithms for weighting how these corrections are applied to the measured area.

Most other manual PEQ devices use IIR filters if I am not mistaken, although I think Trinnov has both available. I think it is a debate in itself as to the merits of each.

This is just my understanding, I am by no means an expert on Audyssey

Adam

Agreed. The PEQ on the ADA unit may not have the FIR filters of Audyssey, but it does have resolution down to 1Hz and adjustable Q. This allows the user to EQ a very narrow range with minimal effect on nearby frequencies. As Shawn mentioned, room resonances are minimum phase, so a PEQ can not only correct in the time domain but it can do so at more than one listening postion, irrespective of what Doug ...er, Nascar may believe.

I am sure, well AngelEyes had a good reply but what in specific do you mean by "changing" the sound? You can email chris at audyssey and he will get back to you rather quick.

Modifying the input signal (in Audyssey's case, to compensate for what the room is adding). My point was that you had no idea what type of EQ Audyssey was using modify the signal (evidenced by you evading the question) vs how a PEQ works, hence your erroneous claim that PEQ is only good for one position.

Personally I would tend to agree that PEQ is generally only useful in a single position or small area. Not because it is impossible to average out a 'better' reponse over an area using PEQ (after all this is part of what Audyssey is doing) but most PEQ applications give a very small number of filters to achieve this, typically 12 per channel.

Vanilla Audyssey MultEQ has the luxury of 256 for the subwoofer alone (IIRC) depending on the implementation. Given the expertise, time, willingness and enough filters, perhaps manual PEQ could do a comparable job but I wouldn't want to do it

I might make the effort over a 3 seater sofa but anything more than that is time I don't have

Adam

Sure, which is why I mentioned earlier that it's for users that have the tools, patience and inclination to EQ manually. Even if you do find problems that are common to multiple seating locations, it will take lots of trial and error to address them. Personally, I'll take the convenience of a good auto-EQ system. To that end, my posting history shows that I've been a big proponent of Audyssey from the very begining. But that doesn't mean I attach magical properties to it that somehow can't be accomplished by other means.

New Onkyo PR-SC5507 Processor:

http://www.eu.onkyo.com/press/press_...n_8599753.html

http://www.aventhusiast.co.uk/new-on...3.htm#more-893

More money, more crap you don't need, yay

Adam

This is a changing situation. First, there are measurement tools that will average multiple measurement positions. Second, DSP-implemented PEQs can have as many filters as (or more than) Audyssey. Take a look at what JBL-Pro is doing this field and expect a trickle-down to consumer products. Thus, one can duplicate (to a great extent) with a PEQ what Audyssey does. However, it requires complex tools, lots of time and, critically, lots of knowledge.


I have to agree. Some others have a need to use a "hand's on approach" but I ain't that neurotic.

Integraresearch.com is now "Under Construction"....... A return for CEDIA? (Complete Speculation on my part)