SSP & Pre/Pros that support HDMI Audio MPCM - Page 4

Here is some two new pieces from Marantz

http://blog.ultimateavmag.com/ces2008/010908Marantz/

Do you know of any pre/pro with 12 ~ 14 channels of DACs and volume controls for a SINGLE zone, among those with HDMI inputs? I see that most has only up to 8 or 10 channels...

Why not just use your pre outs on your receiver?


Look how long it took the "high end" to re badge products for the DVD side. Hi def has reached the point that 2-3 engineers at a single high end company can no longer put out even a re badged product.


There is nothing different about the MX135/136 over your standard receiver and if you think that the pre amp analog section does improve the sound quality save your money and buy a C45 pre amp.

I know. But I plan to upgrade to a BD player later in the year that does decode DTS-HD MA internally. Getting a pre/pro now, I get TrueHD now but DTS-HD MA later, but it's also a heckuva lot easier (for me) to swap a player in and out of my system than a pre/pro.

Is this because lexicon is going to be years behind everyone else?

I don't need to use the pre-outs on my receiver since I don't have a receiver--but have a MX134 and can use the analog inputs.

My suggestion as to how Pioneer Elite could create a really great pre/pro came as a result of McIntosh, Anthem, Mark Levinson, and Lexicon refusing to add processing of all HD digital surround formats in their pre/pros -- they feel that all processing should be done in the players.

If you think that there is nothing different about the MX135/136 over a standard receiver, then you don't understand McIntosh -- one little difference is that a receiver has built-in amps whereas a pre/pro does not. While the MX135/136 IMO is much more attractive than other pre/pros, it is an opinion shared by those of us that like that brand for its quality and in the case of the amplifiers, for their quality and their resale value in case they are not kept for 20+ years by their owners.

McIntosh does not re-badge anything other than perhaps their music server - they engineer each of their pieces from scratch and being a relatively small company, do not have the engineering staff to create very many new pieces at any given time--thus they will not add a new pre/pro for at least another year or more. They even wind their own transformers inhouse. Perhaps you and I are using different definitions of the term "re-badge."

My MX134's analog section is the equivalent of the C45 preamp, but I am interested in the digital domain of high def lossless audio -- and am interested in a top notch pre/pro with HDMI 1.3a or b and that can process all HD audio formats and then have a great set of DACs. As I surmised in my original post -- what meets my needs, since McIntosh is waay behind in creating a new pre/pro, is Pioneer Elite's newest topend receiver since it would not take much engineering by Pioneer to create a wonderful pre/pro from it -- I like its looks, its controls and feature set and happen to like and trust Pioneer Elite. (I am considering the Onkyo Integra on an interim basis for a couple of years.)

MikeSp

When I contacted Lexicon last week, they indicated that they were not going to change pre/pros -- that the processing would be done in the players. (Same response from McIntosh and Anthem)

While you and I feel that they are going to be behind, they feel that processing of HD audio formats should not be done in the pre/pro but in the players (to which I alluded in a recent posting) and then their current pre/pros can handle all 8 digital channels just fine.

MikeSp

A lot of high end companies are saying this because they can not even re badge a product with their own name on it.


I own a MX135! The amp section of a receiver is not going to have a negative effect on the audio. The quality of Mcintosh drops very low when you deal with the DVD players and audio processors. I will agree that their amps are of good quality but that is it. Whay care about resale on something that is going to be replaced/out done by technology every 5 years?


No, Mcintosh uses the same DSP and DAC's that everyone else uses.

http://www.mds.com/products/product.asp?prod=DAE%2D5

Here is the DSP that the MX135/136 uses and receivers also use this same TI DSP chip. Mcintosh hand makes certain transformers but they also by R core transformers from japan, so what is your point?


Then you will realize that if it is all digital and lossless that Mcintosh and other high end pre pro's would sound the same as receivers.

Don't you find it funny that Ron C over on audio karma who works for Mcintosh said that because of the way movies are made that better audio codecs like lossless would not make a difference?

He and I have exchanged emails which involved that very topic. That is part of the basis for his reasoning why the MX136 is not obsolete -- if the audio codecs for lossless HD audio are in the player, then they are unnecessary in the pre/pro and thus there is no need at this time for a MX137.

MikeSp

But the MX136 with HDMI can not do LPCM, right? So you agree that the DSP/DAC system of a player/receiver would make no difference?

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/sho...d.php?t=141854

Ok so the MX136 can not do LPCM over HDMI which means it can not get a lossless signal from a hi def source. The only aspect then of the MX136 that would be used is the pre amp section and volume control, once again why not simply buy a C45 and save a pile of money?

Now I am getting a headache -- you are getting close to convincing me of something that I actually knew but since I am left-brained, I like things to match (like all major components) and have liked the Mc appearance for 40+ years. Some concepts are tough to let go--thus my reference to psychoacoustics in a previous posting. Were I into analog stereo, then the preamp and amps would make more difference... thanks guy, now I really am in pain after purchasing three new MC501's...

MikeSp

I read that posting on Audiokarma and was shocked -- even WAS considering a used MX136 from a well-known Mc supplier.

MikeSp

Agree... snif, whine

MikeSp

My apologies -- I would delete my inappropriate postings on this thread IF I knew how.

MikeSp

Just pointing out the flaws of all processors.

Any links -- none on the Web site and none of consequence that I could locate even with Google.

MikeSp

I can chime in now that I have had my SSP 200 for a few weeks that LPCM playback is stable..bass is as it should be and the sonics are all Halcro.

THAT is an impressive unit.

I'd be seriously considering the Cary 11a, had it not been for the 2 HDMI inputs

See if you can try it out first...my experience will low priced processors is a hard edge..

The price is right..but you have to live with the sound.

cary is pretty sonically sound actually....the Cary Cinema 6 and 11 are excellent, particularly considering their low price point.

But I agree with you, I can't see downgrading from the acoustical signature of my Proceed AVP2 to the cary with only 2 HDMI inputs. I dont want to have the Zektor switch in the mix...when I upgrade, I wanted to be for connectivity as well as sound.

it is slim pickings thus far

Switches are cheap.

You could aways use the Oppo switcher which is like $90 and that would give you another 3 inputs.

Cary has 6 inputs on the 11v but that would mean you have to buy their new video processor in addition to the 11a pre/pro.