When are all these HD boxes coming out that..

July was just when all new STBs were required to have removable secirity. (cablecards) It did not require that they be made available to consumers to buy. Some company may decide to make and market a consumer product - Tivo comes to mind as they have 2 cable ready CC equipped units on the market.

And that's just for cable, there are no equivalent receivers coming out for sat.

Except cable systems probably won't let cablecardless boxes attach to their networks.

Directv use to have 3rd party boxes and got away from them to limit the number of options to make support easier amoung other things, doubt they'll reverse that decision.

I had a Comcast tech at my house recently. I only have cable card for my Sony tv, dont use the set top boxes. We got into discussion about cable boxes. As I would rather own one, rather than pay the cable company to rent one. In a little over 2 years they'd pay for themselves.

He was saying that come Jan 1 cable boxes would be available to buy for the consumer. He thought they'd cost around $200. He then said you would have to get the cable card from Comcast in order for them to work. He also said that Comcast has finally figured out how to use cable cards. They now relish using them. He was one of the only ones who figured them out long ago. As I had had many issues with them. He admitted they tried blaming the problems on the tvs, or the cards, but the problems were really with Comcast. Wow Big surprise there, huh?....

"He was saying that come Jan 1 cable boxes would be available to buy for the consumer. He thought they'd cost around $200. He then said you would have to get the cable card from Comcast in order for them to work."

Those will have the same limitations as using a cable card in your TV, no PPV, On-Demand or interactive guide.

I don't think that is true. If just using a cable card directly into the tv then no On demand or pay per view, but with cable box and cable card then you could do the on demand.

No it's true, the cablecards out now can't do two way communications therefore the services that rely on two way won't work.

Wrong. The CableCARDs are *not* the limiting factor; they in fact have little to do with two-way communication. The limiting factor is CHILA (the CableCARD Host Interface Licensing Agreement). CableLabs will *not* license a device for two-way communications unless it implements OCAP (OpenCable Application Platform), which prevents the box maker from having any software on the box itself that differentiates it in any way - it downloads a software bundle from the cable headend and runs the software provided on top of a Java VM. This is strictly a matter of what the cable industry *wants*, not a hardware/technical limitation of the system.

That's why devices like the CableCARD-based TiVos can't do SDV (yet), impulse PPV or on-demand - because that's the way the cable industry wants it, not because CableCARD can't do it, or the TiVos couldn't have been designed to do it. If you don't believe me, see what the cable industry's own R&D arm has to say about it.

I don't have a cable box now, but isn't that how people who get on demand and ppv. So getting a box even if it is bought and not rented wouldnt that then allow for the box owner to receive those services? From what I understand, the new boxes will also allow for receiving additional premium hd channels thru the cable card. The cable card would have to be rented, thus the way for cable company to make some rental money.

I don't quite understand what you mean by this...


One of the aforementioned OCAP-equipped CableCARD set-tops? Sure, but it'd be just another generic box, running the cable company's software. The problem is most CE manufacturers DO NOT want that - why would they want to make just another non-differentiable box, where they have no control over the software/interface/architecture? I'm sure there are a few who'll make some, but the reality is, at that point, who cares? Might as well just lease the box from the cableco, because it'll work exactly the same.


That's correct.


Yes, but a lot less than the boxes, and of course there's the fact that the cable companies hate dealing with the standalone cards - they'll lie to customers and tell them they don't have them, or they won't work, or whatever else (please, no one tell me "oh, that's not so!" - I've had first hand experience, I know it's so, they lie because it's "too much work"). With the difficulty in getting them, getting everything working, sorting out billing, etc., etc., most people will opt for the (relatively) easy choice of just leasing whatever crappy box the cableco in your area happens to offer.

I had to be particularly persistent to get CableCARDs with my current provider at all - they lied to me multiple times, telling me assorted different stories, and it took complaining to the FCC to straighten things out. Unless you're pretty knowledgeable, or someone who is is working with you, you'd probably have given up *long* before I did. It's not a venture for the weak of will. While I like having the option, I know it's probably more effort than it's worth - most people will as well, but they'll just skip to the "giving up" step, not put up with months without cable TV out of principle.

In other words, two-way CableCARD boxes at retail are an exercise in smashing one's head against a concrete wall - no real gain in any respect, all you end up with is a headache and (probably) a gaping head wound when it's all over.