Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 404

I usually break mine right at the first or second black frame at the beginning and just into the slight fade into the start at the end of my edits, seems to mostly do OK on a HSD seeing how I knew it did this but hadn't read Wajo's directions on exactly where we think the edits should be.
Sure was disappointing after being used to my Panny E80H that was pretty close to exact frame accurate no matter how you dubbed a disk.
Maybe we should add that to the wish list if it isn't there already?

I don't know about the 2160A but I have had troubles when Title Split was used on my Philips 3575 and 3576.

I can't prove it, but I believe that Title Split on those units often creates shared blocks. (The block where the split is set will almost always contain data needed by programs on both sides of the split. If the software does not create a duplicate of the block, so that one copy can be assigned to each of the file pieces, I believe there is impending trouble. Note that everthing will look fine while both programs are untouched.) If there is a shared block, it is vital that all pieces of the split title are deleted without any intervening recording to the HDD. There could even be danger using scene delete on a piece of a split title, since the deleted scene could free a shared block. If a shared block is released by a File Delete or a Scene Delete, and that block is recorded on, it would corrupt the remaining program that shared the block, and the block would again be shared by 2 programs.

I suspect that the only way to get rid of a shared block is to delete all programs that share it without any intervening recording to the HDD. (This can be difficult since it may be difficult to identify all of the programs that contain any shared blocks. The sledge-hammer approach would be to save everything you can from the HDD, and then erase it completely. Important: Don't do any recording to the HDD during the clean-up process.) Otherwise, the first delete will release its shared block, a new program could record on it, and the other program that shared the block would become corrupted, and again 2 programs would be sharing the block.

If some sort of quick file scan is performed during start up, and the HDD has programs with over-written blocks in them, the scan might encounter problems, which might explain a freeze.

If the unit has been deprived of power long enough, it may use a different start-up routine, which may include more robust tools.

Of course, this is just my theory. I cannot prove it. I can only say that it is consistent with my experience. Since there may not be any problems when using Title Split, even if my theory is completely accurate, it is very difficult to test. Probably, it would require a skilled tech person with access to all the code, to see if there is a bug in Title Split, on some or all of the models, and whether there is a way to use it without risk of file corruption. It may be very difficult to get facts about the Philips units. Perhaps 234 can find out which, IF ANY, Magnavox/Funaii units have a Title Split bug similar to the one I theorize to exist in the Philips units.

I have never seen the start-up freeze that you are experiencing. I have detected program corruption when attempting a dub, or attemting to play a program that had played before. In the case of the dub problem, I always found one of the programs I was attempting to dub would not play all the way through, even though it had, in the past. I suspect the troubled program had a shared block in it, which had been overwritten between the time it had played OK and the time when it would no longer play.

Thanks for your comments regarding your experiences. I believe you are on to a condition that in fact may be an "bug" in the "system".

I have deleted all titles from my "troubled" 2160A. I'm hoping I will be able to report soon that this resolved the "freeze" problem.

Actually I've been making the edits in the middle of the black sections. I wasn't aware that it adjusted the edits to index frames. Most of the time it works (I guess there are enough black frames) But sometimes, I get the end of the last commercial. Never the beginning of the first commercial.

Now that I know that there is a reason why the HSD edits are different, I'll be able to experiment and hopefully figure out something that works for me.

This is on a 3575 if that makes a difference.

maybe do a complete reformat of the drive - not just deleting the titles. Since you've lost all the recordings anyway, might as well really clean things up and give it a shot before sending it in for repair. I'm pretty sure the split titles were part of the problem.

Voila! After deleting all titles off my troubled 2160A, and unplugging overnight, a Soft Reset this morning resulted in a normal initiation. The 2160A powered up OK, loaded OK and appears to be working appropriately.

I entered the current Date and Clock Time, performed a few tests, and then decided to use Power/Standby function to check if the 2160A would enter the normal Standby state. The results seemed normal, even the correct Clock Time displayed dimly.

I was not confident even at this point, so I waited over an hour and then powered the unit On again. To my astonishment and sheer joy, the 2160A loaded normally. At this point, I'm more confident the "freeze" problem may be resolved. I'll follow-up later after I verify.

I can add to the info that the Philips 3455 has a similar problem. I am wondering though if it is related to moving from the "buffer" recording (the auto-record on newer maggies) to a regular recorded title or maybe a combination of that and having the drive full and the fact that there is a random removal of shows instead of a nice clean "large" area to start recording in. That is why there was a "wish" for the OS to "defrag" the hard drive during certain "down" times. If the OS could re-arange recordings every once in a while and put them into there own logical blocks instead of having them split up, it may eliminate this problem. If it did find a shared "block" it could mark those shows and you could either delete them or try to figure out where in the show the problem was. I usually try to "guess" due to the percentage of the recording that my DVDR freezes at. and then Isolate that area and mark it so it does not get deleted. If the OS would find and mark that area when defragging, then it would be easier to delete both offenders at the same time and properly free up that block of memory.

As to identifying which "titles" are derived from a single title after a Title Divide, all the "titles" will share a common beginning time.

Your theory concerning Title Divides is also consistent with my experience with 3575 and 3576 models. With those recorders commercials/interstitials are edited out first, except those where the anticipated Title Divide is to be made. Then the Title Divide is made at the end of the first "title" after which a front cut is performed on the second "title." (The same procedure is used when there are additional Title Divides in an extended recording block). Consistent with your descriptions, the difficulty with remaining "fragments" usually appears after one of the "titles" has been dubbed and deleted but the other "title(s)" is/are retained on the hard drive for future dubbing.

The most recent problem was a 3575 recording of the movie Tortilla Flat shown by TCM on 10/21/2010. This movie was recorded as part of a larger recording block. Then, a few days later, I performed front and end cuts to the extended recording block, a Title Divide at the conclusion of the Tortilla Flat end credits followed by a front cut to the next "title." Then I made an unsuccessful attempt to high-speed dub Tortilla Flat. I left that title alone for a time during which more recordings were made. On 11/2/2010 I turned my attention back to Tortilla Flat. Fast forwarding located a freeze up during the end credits. It was necessary to power off the 3575. Later that day I attempted to edit out the end credits. That wasn't possible. I was then able to perform a Title Divide during "The End" screen. The new "title" contained only the problematic end credits. Then Tortilla Flat was successfully high-speed dubbed after which both "titles" were deleted from the hard drive.

I use Title Divide with my 2080 but that is limited to dividing two programs run back-to-back without interruption by commercials or network promos. Mid-cut editing of commercials is performed before making the Title Divide. An example is back-to-back Bat Masterson episodes as shown by THIS network. These Title Divides are immediately followed by high-speed dubbing after which both titles are then deleted from the hard drive before additional recording takes place.

My Title Dividing procedure with the 2160A and 2160 models is the same as with the 3575 and 3576 models. In earlier posts I've commented that my 2160A and 2160 models seem "more forgiving" of Title Divides than the 3575 and 3576 models. This is the most recent of such posts:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...9#post19507939

Voila! ... Forget It!!!

The next action I took was to use Power/Standby button on the unit to again test Power On/Off function. After Power Off for about 1/2 hour, I used Power/Standby button to Power On the 2160A. My aforementioned joy was replaced by grief. The P-On light came on briefly and then "Load" and then the unit did not complete normal initialization, i.e., obvious "freeze".

Time to replace it if its still under warranty.

Have you tried a startup in the DVD record mode using a preformatted DVD-RW?

If that works, it may be an added confirmation there's a problem with the HDD, and not the machine as a whole.

Yeah, what he said. You have nothing to lose (literally) and a complete reformating would really settle the matter. If it's a mechanical HDD thing, that wont really help. Also, I came in late to the discussion - did you already check to see that the cable hasn't started to come loose, which might explain the intermittent HD access?

What Firmware does the unit contain?
FW might be broken because of any error.
Would you please replace FW and check it again?

Thanks for the advice/suggestions. Sorry it took me awhile to respond. I had to go out of town today. I just returned. I'll address several comments/suggestions at this time:

Chuck44: the "troubled" 2160A is not currently under warranty.

wajo: I think you are correct, it's a good time for a SKIP 079 Format.

stapler1234: I think I may have inadvertently initiated a startup in the DVD mode sometime early in efforts to resolve the problem, and didn't even realize it at the time. Good idea for me to try again and evaluate results!

artwire: I have checked and verified that the cable connections are tight/secure.

234: The firmware for this 2160A DVDR was successfully updated on June 25, 2010 a couple weeks after initial installation, that is BE FW 715.

I'm a little stunned at this point and uneasy as to the procedure for how to "replace FW."

It's past bedtime so I'll followup in the morning.

Good Morning. Here is follow-up on status and actions regarding my troubled 2160A, i.e. freeze-up.

Status: I just completed SKIP 079 (Steps 1 and 2). The Step 1, Self Check HDD and DVD was successful, Status OK. Upon completion of Step 1, I selected OK and apparently Step 2 was completed because the unit powered off into Standby Mode.

I didn't recall whether I should unplug the unit, so I did not unplug the unit. I waited a few minutes and depressed the Power On/Standby button on the unit. The display panel on the unit immediately displayed "P-On" and then "Load" and then freeze.

After I mumbled awhile, I unplugged the unit. I'm now waiting (you know, the around 30 minute routine) before plugging unit in again. I'll follow-up ASAP.

Concur, I conclude the same! I'll complete as soon as I can get to it. Thanks for hanging with me... you and other experts on this Thread are extraordinary and greatly appreciated.

Can someone help me with this. I just purchased a magnavox MDR 515h f7. I did my connections. I opened the TV, put it on channel 3, which is my external input channel. Then I put the component channel selection because I am using the component cable until I get HDMI cable. Then I put the MDR on and nothing happens. No image, no menu at all.
I checked that the cables were properly connected. The OTA analog passthrough is working. I put an audio CD, and the audio coaxial is working. I put a DVD nothing. So no menu, no image, no access to the device except for CD audio.

What am I not doing correctly?

Waiting for help!

Denys

Please add these to the wish list:

1. Record/playback in 1080i or 1080p.
2. Add Google TV with wireless connection
3. Blue-ray playing/recording rather than DVD.
4. Full electronic program guide.
5. Tera-byte hard drive out of the box.

You MIGHT get a program guide!

Most TVs use channel 3 or 4 for video components connected by coax. These recorders won't play over the coax cable. The coax output only passes along the same signal as the coax input through the machine.

You mentioned "the component cable", suggesting you only have one video cable. Component cables are usually a set of 5 cables, red/green/blue video and red/white audio. Composite cables are usually a set of three cables, yellow video with red/white audio. You might have mixed up your connections at the back of the TV and the TV input selection.

My guess is you may have inadvertently connected the component (video only) cables to the audio output of the MDR and the Audio input on your TV. Thus giving you audio, but no video. Verify your connections there. If you want to use the component input on your TV, you will need 5 "RCA" type cables (3 for the component video signal and 2 for Audio (left and right)).


For a simple connection to verify operation, run a coax cable from the MDR
Ant OUT to your TV. Tune your TV to channel 3. then you should see menu's etc.

Ken, I should have said Component Cables (I have the 3 Blue Green Red). And I use another cable for Audio. But I have some extra info. I finally got some kind of message on the screen saying "Out of Range"; and some numbers that indicated the TV was trying to figure out the Pixel size (flashing numbers like 576i Hz and 1260i and 1080p etc...) My TV is a 720p and I was wondering if that was the problem. So I decided to use the Video out, and then everything worked fine and great. But now I wonder if there is a setup I have to change to use Component Cables or eventually HDMI, or they wont work on my TV.

Thank you,

Denys

Did you run an antenna channel scan?


Since Magnavox HDD/DVD recorders have an unmodulated RF pass through output, signals generated by the Magnavox itself are not found through the RF output. Other Magnavox outputs must be connected to the TV in order to see and hear Magnavox generated signals. These outputs include HDMI (video/sound), component video (blue, green, red, plus white and red audio), S-Video (plus white and red audio), composite video yellow (plus white and red audio). Then the TV remote is used to select the corresponding input in order to see signals generated by the Magnavox. (The HDMI connection must be activated from the Magnavox remote. I don't use HDMI due to "handshake" and "copy protection" issues.)

Ken I should have said Compinent Cables, I have component Blue Green Red plugged properly in the component out and respective in. But I got more info, the TV finally put out an "Out of range" message and numbers appearing indicating that the Tv was trying to figure out the pixel format (576i Hz and 1260i and 1080p etc...). I finally decided to try the Video out and then everything worked right. What I am wondering now is there is something I have to change in my setup for component cables to work and eventually HDMI, or will they not work. My TV is a 720p and I was wondering if that was par of the problem.

Thank you,

Denys