Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 513

In summary: you get what you pay for. Add 1 feature, take away 1 if you want to hold the price

Great post. For me, it spells out that things are not simple anymore. After buying four Sony HD DVR recorders I still bought the 2160A and then the 515H. I have read every post here and the DHG thread. I knew what I was getting and how I would integrate it into my system. My cable feed gave me a few challenges, but I knew that could happen. It's what makes this fun.

I remember when I changed the oil in my car. Now I'm not sure where to find the oil filter. Stuff changes. Thanks again for the time & knowledge.

You need to record more stuff. I still have stuff from last season I haven't watched yet. Life was simpler when everything new started and ended about the same time.

I'm not surprised the posting is going up. Sales are doing that too. Despite the superman-like job of wajo, he can't make people invest time to get the most out of these units.

Seems I caused some confusion. Sorry. Here's what I did.

Cable from wall to 515H. Record NBC HD 16:9 on 515H for a few minutes. Show was 16:9 and HD, like Leno.

515H set to output 1080p. AVR set to pass through whatever its gets - no conversion. TV will take 4:3 480i and make it go full 16:9 if needed. It did not need to do that. I could switch TV from 515H to rf input with one button.

Playback the title and the WS bit was preserved and the picture was great. Sound from 515H was DD 2.0, not 5.1 like the TV tuner, but my AVR helped with that.

Sorry if I left out any important details.

BTW, my HD STB has its own cable feed from outside and HDMI to the AVR plus RWY to the 515H. When using the RWY I get letterbox 480. No S-Video, but it has an rf slaved output I never use.

Thanks for replying:


Yes.

So SD digital looks a lot better than SD analog. So is there such a thing as 480 16:9 content?



Yeah I mentioned that above about SVHS (but that was many years ago). I thought a regular DVD was 480 lines.



But I mentioned above I don't have a Cox DVR (if I did I wouldn't need something like a 513/515. I'm trying to avoid the extra $17 a month with Cox's DVR). But it can't look as good as a cable co Motorola DCH/DCT DVR, right?

Ok that clears up some things, thank you.

So you are able to get 16:9 recording using cable. ?



Yeah I knew that. I was just saying that a VCR's internal tuner can be sort of bypassed and use the STB's tuner instead, then wondering why something similar to that (bypassing the internal tuner) can't be done with a 513.

Thanks for the reply:


But a DVD still looks a lot better, at least to me it does.



I'm not concerned nor interested in the DVD portion. So that not withstanding, does that only leave a larger HDD needed as the only reason?



But they don't cost more. When I checked yesterday I saw them for around $200 and about $119 for the single-tuner versions. (And again, I'm not concerned with the lack of DVD functions). So I'm still wondering why can't a TiVo be used for HD 16:9 HDD recording of HD 16:9 material from a cable co HD STB. Does a TiVo have a record timer on it like a VCR does or the 513 does? If so, then I can't see why one wouldn't work as described. Please explain.



That is just what I want to do. But by "record through" I don't mean use it to record (as in have to get a DVR from them), I mean just as I do now--record "through" it to a VCR. I simply want to replace the VCR with a HD recording "device" that won't have a monthly cost.



Here, basic cable (STB-less) is limited to SD channels except for locals.

Yeah I saw that, but I thought he/they were referring to something specific to my question(s) in it. (That's where I saw it had 16:9 recording, but apparently only with the internal tuner.....but it now seems apparently not. ?)

I knew that, but as I've said they still look better than SD TV, and can't they be "SD" and still 16:9?

No, in the info I read on it yesterday it was NTSC (and had MPEG-2 encoding).

What happened to that post? The link for it doesn't go anywhere but to the top of the page.

This is what I fail to understand: Why do you need a CableCard (or similar device) with a TiVo, when you don't need one with a VCR nor a 513/515????

VCR: When you want to record a premium cable channel (movie channel or channel above 99), you simply set the timer on the STB to come on and end at the time of the show, (press "VCR Record" on the STB and of course it has to be for the SD channel version) and set the VCR for this time slot with it tuned to channel 3.

513/515/variants: Since I don't have one (yet), I'm not sure how this works. But I assume the same as the VCR with regards to your STB, and the same as far as setting the timer on the 513, but I'm not sure what you record, I would guess what's coming in on HDMI or component. Right? Set the STB come on as with the VCR method, expect on the HD 16:9 channel version. ?

TiVo: ????? How? Why not the same? ^^^ Does it not have a manually-set record timer you can set to record what's coming in on your cable co's STB? Screw the EPG, don't need it, cable co's STB has it. (And again, lack of DVD functions are irrelevant to me).

No one has ever been able to answer this for me.

Never heard of or read of 480 (analog) 16:9. Even a BR movie is not 16:9. Aspect ratio of a TV is fixed (I'm sure about that). DSP can do modification of the viewed content in many ways and the more you pay, the more you can play. I do have a 720p 4:3 Sanyo, but it doesn't have HDMI input.

480 lines on your TV is what you see. The frame is 525 lines. Remember the black bar you saw when you changed the vertical hold knob?

Everything I read says DVD and S-VHS is 400 lines. I used my VCR last night to research time signals. Remember the "DAT" wars?

My error: I thought you had Cox cable and hence my reference to a cable company DVR. I have no idea who makes my cable company's DVR but it may be a Motorola also.

If I use the word "SD" or "ED" or "HD" I always mean digital. Analog sounds better than vsb, like OTA 1080i sounds better than 8vsb. Marketing people would frown on 8vsb being used to sell their equipment. HD just sounds better.

(Again, I'd love to know what happened to that post of his to which so many are referring and quoting). So you think the quality of the 513/515's recording can't compare to that of a cable co DVR?

So if your STB does not (and apparently mine does not since it's inclusive of "All other Motorolas") one of those converters list just below that chart will work? But the chart is for S-video and composite, and I believe we're talking about HDMI here, so it should be N/A and it should preserve the WS format. ?

Yes, I get the same 16:9 display from the Mag as I get from my Sony HD DVR and my Sony TV set on full pixel GIVEN THE SAME CONTENT. No stretching, no wide, no analog equipment near any of this. As I mentioned, only my ABC "local" has gone 16:9 HD which means: during the winter I get to watch Leno and Letterman at 4:3 on a 1080i display (barn doors) since school closings force my NBC & CBS stations to use their old equipment. Nasty.

I have no clue what "sort of" or "bypassing" is trying to accomplish. I can't help there.

So there is "the" post. Thanks for the info. So it would seem--contrary to what most have said--that you are using cable and are able to record 16:9 format with your 515. Is that because of your AVR? If not, then why aren't others able to do it?



Now there's more confusion: If RWY (which I take to mean composite) is the only thing going to the 515, then how can you record 16:9 on it? Since you say after that you get letter-boxed 480. You don't have your STB's HDMI going to the 515?

Thanks.

I was talking about digital 480 16:9, that does not exist?



"BR" meaning blu-ray?? Not 16:9??



No, I just checked to be sure and standard DVD is 480 lines.

So then you are able to record/playback "HD" 16:9 on your 515 using cable. I say "HD" in quotes because (if I understand this correctly) what you're seeing is 480 content (and 480 16:9 content?) blown-up to 1080 and yet it still looks great. (I'm confused as to why others are saying this can't be done).

Is your Sony HD DVR a rental or did you buy it? Does it require any subscription or monthly fees? If not and you own it, which is it and how much was it? How does the 515 compare to it PQ-wise?



See this post #15382 above, sorry I don't how else I can explain it.

Thanks for all the replies Joe.

"Rammitinski" can you please take a look at the start and end of post #15349? Thanks.

I really appreciate all of you that have and are replying, thank you.

I can understand your confusion. Aspect ratio does not equate to resolution. The Mag can change resolution but not aspect ratio. My TV can change aspect ratio but always displays everything at 1080p.

The AVR, Yamaha V867, can change resolution, but I have that turned off. It doesn't work so well.

I like Doctor Who. It only comes from my cable feed on scrambled HD. I use the RWY STB output to feed the L1 rear input on the Mag to record it. It is in lettter box format when played back. I don't care. The STB has it's own cable line feed and feeds the AVR via HDMI. All my STB (Pace) channels are 1080i on HDMI (even if they shouldn't be). I seldom watch "live" TV. Normally only CNBC and MSNBC before work on Monday. Call me a big time time shifter. Or an even bigger commercial zapper. The remote of the 515H is wonderful for that. Like the HD Sonys, you can vary the jump time both ways.

Could we now try one thing at a time. I jump about on several forums during the week since I work Sat-Sun-Mon. It's my experience that small questions get faster answers from more people. Unless you're using an agressive attitude. Anyone who professes to know everything lives in a very small world. Just my observation: no facts to back it up.

Going through the RF channel 3 of the VCR is all well and good, IF you can handle the QUALITY.

A cable card is the tuner for all your HD "scrambled" shows. It is the replacement for the STB. You do not need any wires, trying to figure out timer recordings and 3 different pieces of equipment in the process.

The 515 will keep the 16:9 ratio of the internel tuned shows that are not scrambled. As long as you do not need the HD scrambled shows a 515 will do what the VCR did. It is the process of getting the HD scrambled shows from the STB to the 515 that is the issue. S-video is the best quality. RCA is the next and RF is the least. Component and HDMI is not even available.

S-video on most outs strips the 16:9 aspect and creates letter box, unless you have a filter that adds the 16:9 back in.

BD are not 16:9 because that is a DVD SD standard. Movies are rarely shot in 16:9. Most were edited to fit 16:9 or created in a letter box "setting" that allowed the full whatever aspect it was shot in. 16:9 is just the compromise that TV manufacturers agreed to produce their aspect ratios as a base standard to keep the "production" in a standard that is compatable with every other TV. 4:3 was the standard of analog, but 16:9 was just a "base" standard of digital, not the set one like 4:3 was.

I remember back in 1995 era, the the new digital 4:3 tv's actually looked wider than the analog one's but they were not true 16:9 tv's.

Thank you. I think wajo is watching all this. I'd bet he's not crying.

Sure, quality is bad, but it's the principle of how it's done that I'm pointing out--with a VCR the STB's tuner is used for premium scrambled channels, no cable card needed because the STB is used.



But why do you need to replace the STB? Why can't it be kept and used as it is now?



Why is HDMI not available? HDMI (or component) from the STB to the 515?? Why is that not possible? Something just occurred to me: I don't remember but do STB's have more than one HDMI out? If not, then obviously the HDMI-out has to go to your HDTV and can't go to a recorder. Can it be split with some kind of a Y-connector adapter? If they do have more than one HDMI-out, then it can be done.



"Filters" such as....?



Ahhh I see, then I meant to say "wide-screen" instead of 16:9, and obviously WS is on BRD's.

Thanks.

Forget it. I'm sorry I mentioned it. I could have mentioned the BV-980H or PHD-eZ21, but things are too complicated now. The Magnavox is the best no-fee value on the market at this time. It might be the best value period, but I don't want other DVR owners to smash me. It takes a lot for a noun to become a verb but Tivo did it.

We don't tape shows here, we record titles.

You didn't just ask how an HD DVR compares to the SD Magnavox?

Anyhow:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=537711

Only about 22k posts since 2005 when they stopped making it. I have four. Check eBay.

The thing to remember is that HD does not have to be Widescreen.
A 720 by 480 resolution DVD can be displayed as 4:3 or 16:9 . To display a 16:9 video the DVD player stretches the pixels into a rectangular shape that is wider than it is taller and then outputs the signal.


A Cable or Satellite DVR records the HD exactly as it is received. since it is recording HD it will look better that the Magnavox output. What people are telling you is the video will look fine unless you are one of those types that get down in front of the Screen with a magnifying glass looking for defects.


you need a cable card for the Tivo so it can tune the cable channels and record in HD. You don't need one with the 513/515 since they only tune the unscrambled channels or record via the STB.

Tivo makes their money on the subscription fees not selling cheap hardware.

You either need to buy the much more expensive Lifetime Subscription Tivo or buy the cheap version and pay a monthly fee for it to work. No subscription, no record manually or via the guide.

No component or HDMI input to the Magnavoxes. HDCP has pretty much killed of recording via HDMI and Analog is going away. Component is analog.

Hollywood doesn't want you recording their content in HD.

I'm going to hate myself. I work Monday night. I want to record:
Fox 8 - 9
Fox 9 - 10
CBS 9 - 9:30
CBS 10 - 11
ABC 10:01 - 11
CBS 11:35 - 12:37
NBC 11:26 - 12:36
ComCent 11 - 11:30

Could your VCR do that with a STB output? And these are not scrambled, just HD except Jon Stewart. It would take two Mags to do it and they would record in SD.

A cable card makes channels pretty. My NBC HD is 84.1401 raw and 503 via STB. But it's not a big deal with a Favorites button. I've managed to teach my mother to say CBS not channel 2. She's 84.

Clint S.
I write this with polite intents and am not trying to be nasty or mean when I say that you really need to take some time to read and learn the basics of digital. Your questions have all been answered several times by members who have constructed their answers assuming you knew the basics. Your continued confusion with their responses is a result of this gap. It is a shame Citibear deleted his post (it really was pretty good). His section and advice dealing with your confusion over the relation of a cable co STB vs. a DVR was right on target.

To the rest of the helpful members. I don't see an end in sight to this discussion as it has yet to get as basic as it needs be and it is pretty far afield from the threads topic. If you wish to continue your instruction, it might be better to move this discussion to it's own thread -- perhaps a moderator could the move the posts.

Using my 2160A daily and 515H almost daily I have not had one problem. No lockups, no freezing, no nothing. I have made & played DVD's made on the 2160A on the 515H to catch up on last seasons shows. This time of year all the new shows are on my "basic" cable: USA, TNT, etc. so the Mag gets a lot of use.

So there.

Thank you.