AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › DVD Recorders (Standard Def) › Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 681

post #20401 of 23781
5/17/12 at 10:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg22 View Post

hi alp...

i'm sort of an audiophile as well and have a rough time internally with much of the digital stuff. it seems, though, that short term numbers mean everything and the enthusiasts seem to get lost in the mix....



rgds,
ron g

Speaking of audio. I'm sure you have seen on wish list #1 the request for DD5.1 for at least the HDD recordings. A DVD with a 5.1 sound track will work via the digital outputs. Yet, better audio has been given a lower priority. I only buy a CD if it is SACD and it's the main reason I like my BD player and AVR. It is also why I use the Mag for 480i DD2.0 shows from my basic digital cable. Not all shows have good audio, but for the few that have 5.1 it's worth the money to me.
Reply
Reply

Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #20402 of 23781
5/17/12 at 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by profhat View Post

Maybe a secret IRE menu?

Better yet, front and center with a dedicated remote button, as long as the default can't even be within a stone's throw of tolerable, which is how I characterize all 5 of my Funai's ATSC HD & QAM HD mal-performance tuning most big-3 network series programs.
Reply
Reply
post #20403 of 23781
5/17/12 at 10:19am
Quote:
Originally Posted by profhat View Post

You are right, but without OTA or Cable Card, the TiVo is useless.



Maybe a secret IRE menu?

chuckling to myself .... i'd love that....
Reply
Reply
post #20404 of 23781
5/17/12 at 10:56am
So,

I'm back with a CM7778 pre-amp on the roof, and my TV set now picks up all the stations.

But the Maggy is still being difficult, with a very weak signal on CBS and NBC (but still able to provide stable feed) and barely picks up PBS, and nothing at all for FOX and the second PBS station.
All these are coming in strong in my TV tuner.

The Maggy has been unplugged since last evening, I hope almost 24 hours of no power helps, otherwise I'm puzzled.

I already tried the soft reset (few minutes unplugged + power button upon replug) and the SKIP 1 2 3 and no joy there.

I've done the channel scan with RF cable unplugged to erase the channel memory, still sad.

And I have 2 Maggys, exact same results on both units.
What's more, if I use the Mag's "passthrough" splitter, I loose the same channels on the TV, while using my own splitter the channels are coming in fine on the TV but failing on the Mag. So it really seems like the Mag's RF input is flawed, at least for OTA.

I figure I'll add my TV FOOL: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...67d9d5840a03d4

When I say CBS, I mean WCAX, NBC = WPTZ, PBS1 = WETK, FOX= WFFF, PBS2 = WCFE
Reply
Reply
post #20405 of 23781
5/17/12 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally Posted by profhat View Post

You are right, but without OTA or Cable Card, the TiVo is useless.

Would you say the Magnavox is useless without channels that include a PSIP? Seems that a bad PSIP is worse than no PSIP.

I used a TiVo Premier for a month without a cable card. Except for the stupid messages about lack of a guide, it worked just a good as a 2160A/515H unless you need to name the shows.
Reply
Reply
post #20406 of 23781
5/17/12 at 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyclone82 View Post

Read post #515 here by Citibear

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...599173&page=18

Explains it well.

FYI, you LINKed to a PAGE. Depending on how many 'Posts-Per-Page' a User has set in his/her Profile, they may, or may not end up where you want them to.

If you look at the Top Right Corner of each post, there are 2 LINKs. The one with:
  1. The Number Sign, #515, will take you to a 'Single Post View'. EXTREMELY useful, IMO, as a bookmark to Wajo's FAQ since it only retrieves Post #1 and not all 50 posts (per my User Profile) on that page.
    .
  2. Link will take you to the proper page, according to your User Profile setting, and position you at the requested Post #.
I've provided examples of both so that you can see how they work.

HTH!
Reply
Reply
post #20407 of 23781
5/17/12 at 11:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxheaven View Post

So,

I'm back with a CM7778 pre-amp on the roof, and my TV set now picks up all the stations.

But the Maggy is still being difficult, with a very weak signal on CBS and NBC (but still able to provide stable feed) and barely picks up PBS, and nothing at all for FOX and the second PBS station.
All these are coming in strong in my TV tuner.

When I say CBS, I mean WCAX, NBC = WPTZ, PBS1 = WETK, FOX= WFFF, PBS2 = WCFE

What signal level does your unit display? I have dropped my signal down to 50 and still received a digital channel without blocking or pixelation.
Reply
Reply
post #20408 of 23781
5/17/12 at 11:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxheaven View Post

And I have 2 Maggys, exact same results on both units.
What's more, if I use the Mag's "passthrough" splitter, I loose the same channels on the TV, while using my own splitter the channels are coming in fine on the TV but failing on the Mag. So it really seems like the Mag's RF input is flawed, at least for OTA.

Almost sounds like a bad passthru circuit. You can test by unplugging Mag power while on a live TV channel displayed thru the TV's tuner on coax passthru from the Mag and seeing if the pic gets real bad (~-30dB bad). That's how it should work if there's amplification while plugged in but DEamplification (a drag) when unplugged.
Reply
Reply
post #20409 of 23781
5/17/12 at 11:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

...Ah-hem -- we're not geeks. Advanced users -- maybe -- but certainly not geeks...

BALONEY!!!

You and I are 'Geeks'; Citibear, jjeff and rkg22 are 'Geeks' (just examples, not all inclusive - don't want to offend anyone ). Oh yeah, I also have to add IMHO!

Here's my explanation / simple logic as to why:
  • Normal User: Buys a Mag DVDR, tries to use it per the manual, gets frustrated, returns it.
    .
  • Advanced User: Buys a Mag DVDR, tries to use it per the manual, gets frustrated, uses GOOGLE, finds this forum, SEARCHes for and find the answer(s), lives happily ever after.
    .
  • Geek: POSTS the answers for the Advanced User to find.
    [Along with MANY other 'traits' - i.e. 'Quest for Knowledge', Extensive Research into topics of interest, 'Experimentation', Implementation of Complex 'Things' (Hardware, Software, etc...)]
'Geek / Techie / Nerd' - whichever title you choose, we are members of a SMALL group who enjoy doing 'Technical' things above-and-beyond the desire, or even capability, of the majority of the population. For our friends and relatives, we're the 'Go To Guy' when they have technical problems. YOU are one of MY 'Go To Guys' - so, if I'm a 'Geek / Techie / Nerd', you are too! (IMHO)

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

...Using my PC to record/author/burn HD/5.1 has never caused me to bite the head off a chicken .

I TOTALLY don't get the meaning of this - please explain.

Thanks!
Reply
Reply
post #20410 of 23781
5/17/12 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

I TOTALLY don't get the meaning of this - please explain.

Thanks!

From Dictionary.com:
Quote:


geek [geek]
noun Slang .

3. a carnival performer who performs sensationally morbid or disgusting acts, as biting off the head of a live chicken.

This is the original use of the word, to denote a sideshow freak. Its perturbation to denote the computer literati was anything but complimentary.
Reply
Reply
post #20411 of 23781
5/17/12 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelson View Post

From Dictionary.com:
Quote:


geek [geek]
noun Slang .

3. a carnival performer who performs sensationally morbid or disgusting acts, as biting off the head of a live chicken.

This is the original use of the word, to denote a sideshow freak. Its perturbation to denote the computer literati was anything but complimentary.

OUCH!

I prefer:
  • From dictionary.reference.com:
    Quote:


    geek
      /gik/ Show Spelled[geek] Show IPA
    noun Slang.
    1. a computer expert or enthusiast (a term of pride as self-reference, but often considered offensive when used by outsiders.)
      .
    2. a peculiar or otherwise dislikable person, especially one who is perceived to be overly intellectual.
      .
    3. a carnival performer who performs sensationally morbid or disgusting acts, as biting off the head of a live chicken.

  • From en.wikipedia.org:
    Quote:



    The definition of geek has changed considerably over time, and there is no longer a definitive meaning. The terms nerd, gimp, dweeb, dork, spod and gump have similar meanings as geek, but many choose to identify different connotations among these terms, although the differences are disputed. In a 2007 interview on The Colbert Report, Richard Clarke said the difference between nerds and geeks is "geeks get it done."[2] Julie Smith defined a geek as "a bright young man turned inward, poorly socialized, who felt so little kinship with his own planet that he routinely traveled to the ones invented by his favorite authors, who thought of that secret, dreamy place his computer took him to as cyberspacesomewhere exciting, a place more real than his own life, a land he could conquer, not a drab teenager's room in his parents' house."[3]

    Other definitions include:
    • A derogatory reference to a person obsessed with intellectual pursuits for their own sake, who is also deficient in most other human attributes so as to impair the person's smooth operation within society.
      .
    • A person who is interested in technology, especially computing and new media. Geeks are adept with computers, and use the term hacker in a positive way, though not all are hackers themselves.
      .
    • A person who relates academic subjects to the real world outside of academic studies; for example, using multivariate calculus to determine how they should correctly optimize the dimensions of a pan to bake a cake.
      .
    • A person who has chosen concentration rather than conformity; one who passionately pursues skill (especially technical skill) and imagination, not mainstream social acceptance.
      .
    • A person with a devotion to something in a way that places him or her outside the mainstream. This could be due to the intensity, depth, or subject of their interest. This definition is very broad but because many of these interests have mainstream endorsement and acceptance, the inclusion of some genres as "geeky" is heavily debated. Persons have been labeled as or chosen to identify as physics geeks, mathematics geeks, engineering geeks, sci-fi geeks, computer geeks, various science geeks, movie and film geeks (cinephile), comic book geeks, theater geeks, history geeks, music geeks,[citation needed] sport geeks,[citation needed] art geeks, philosophy geeks, literature geeks, historical reenactment geeks, video game geeks, and roleplay geeks.
      .
    • A more recent school of thought[who?] sees nerd as being a derogatory phrase, while geek is simply a description. It is taken to be someone who is an enthusiast, often in things outside of the mainstream spectrum. It may also describe immersion in a particular mainstream interest to an extreme that is beyond normalcy (e.g. sports geek)[citation needed]. Of note is that in this definition, there is no reference to being socially inept in the slightest.[citation needed]

Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Raise your hand if you had to look up the meaning of 'perturbation'.
Reply
Reply
post #20412 of 23781
5/17/12 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

What signal level does your unit display? I have dropped my signal down to 50 and still received a digital channel without blocking or pixelation.

Let's say, for WCAX, I get around 80% on my TV, but only about 18 on the Mag (anything below 16-17 is unwatchable on the Mag, and I can go down to 31-32% on my TV for watchable content)

In WETK's example, I get 80% on the TV, but nada on the Mag, once I managed to get it at about 17.

For WFFF, around 77% on the TV, nada on the Mag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Almost sounds like a bad passthru circuit. You can test by unplugging Mag power while on a live TV channel displayed thru the TV's tuner on coax passthru from the Mag and seeing if the pic gets real bad (~-30dB bad). That's how it should work if there's amplification while plugged in but DEamplification (a drag) when unplugged.

Will try, but it's the same results with both Maggys.
Reply
Reply
post #20413 of 23781
5/17/12 at 1:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg22 View Post

hi 234...

based on my limited understanding of how things work, it seems that the Funai machines' video sections are calibrated such that anything recovered below 7.5 IRE ( a video black level standard ) is rendered as BLACK, whereas the content material that seems to be received ( at least here in the market where I live ) has content material where actual BLACK is equal to 0 IRE ( another video black level standard ).

the result of this discrepency is that darker material, such as darker grey through black, is ALL rendered as black, with complete loss of the finer definition of these darker levels, producing a muddy, washed out display of those darker areas of a video scene... an example of this was made in reference to someone wearing a dark, or black suit, with this discrepency causing almost complete loss of the definition of the subtle differences, like the lapel of the suit not even being visible against the slightly darker appearing balance of the suit.

i would think that this is probably due to manufacturing a ' one size fits all ' international product. however, i might also think that the video processor electronics in these machines have some sort of strapping or internal programming to allow for multiple standards, so as to be able to be used in different countries without having 2 or more separate devices being used.

it would be nice if the Funai machines had this capability somewhere, even if it meant locating some strapping on the PCB to accomplish a change that would implement the appropriate regional standards.

if you have any communication connection with the folks who implemented the video sections of these machines, it might be valuable to pose this kind of question to them to see if they might have an answer or solution...

hope this helps...

rgds,
ron g

FWIW I only noticed a black level issue when using the built in digital tuner on the Funai DVDRs(for recording or just watching the tuner) IOW recording from the line input or just playing back a commercial DVD the black level was fine. To test this I took a CECB and recorded it's signal on the Magnavox(via S-video) and the resulting DVD was just fine, recording the same station using the built in tuner resulted in a DVD with crushed blacks.
Reply
Reply
post #20414 of 23781
5/17/12 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

. . . for example, using multivariate calculus to determine how they should correctly optimize the dimensions of a pan to bake a cake.

Seriously, who doesn't do that. I mean, how else do you bake a cake, LOL.
Reply
Reply
post #20415 of 23781
5/17/12 at 1:49pm
I'm just trying to figure out if geeky nerd best describes some people here or if nerdy geek would be better.
Reply
Reply
post #20416 of 23781
5/17/12 at 1:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post

OUCH!

I prefer:
  • From dictionary.reference.com:
  • From en.wikipedia.org:
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Spoiler  
Warning: Spoiler! (Click to show)
Raise your hand if you had to look up the meaning of 'perturbation'.

How do you classify people who by education, training and employment are engineers and scientist who are so use to dealing with technology that it is just part of life to them? And yes I know the meaning of perturbation, first order perturbation theory and methods were covered in junior year quantum mechanics.
Reply
Reply
post #20417 of 23781
5/17/12 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxheaven View Post

Let's say, for WCAX, I get around 80% on my TV, but only about 18 on the Mag (anything below 16-17 is unwatchable on the Mag, and I can go down to 31-32% on my TV for watchable content)

In WETK's example, I get 80% on the TV, but nada on the Mag, once I managed to get it at about 17.

For WFFF, around 77% on the TV, nada on the Mag.



Will try, but it's the same results with both Maggys.

That's bad. Something they have in common must be defective. The probability of two bad units is very low, but not zero. Any chance you could go to a friend's or relative's house and see if it makes a difference? Or run one of the mag cables to your TV and check that signal? With such numbers the rf output is not going to do anything. Good luck.
Reply
Reply
post #20418 of 23781
5/17/12 at 5:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxheaven View Post

So,

I'm back with a CM7778 pre-amp on the roof, and my TV set now picks up all the stations.

But the Maggy is still being difficult, with a very weak signal on CBS and NBC (but still able to provide stable feed) and barely picks up PBS, and nothing at all for FOX and the second PBS station.
All these are coming in strong in my TV tuner.

The Maggy has been unplugged since last evening, I hope almost 24 hours of no power helps, otherwise I'm puzzled.

I already tried the soft reset (few minutes unplugged + power button upon replug) and the SKIP 1 2 3 and no joy there.

I've done the channel scan with RF cable unplugged to erase the channel memory, still sad.

And I have 2 Maggys, exact same results on both units.
What's more, if I use the Mag's "passthrough" splitter, I loose the same channels on the TV, while using my own splitter the channels are coming in fine on the TV but failing on the Mag. So it really seems like the Mag's RF input is flawed, at least for OTA.

I figure I'll add my TV FOOL: http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wr...67d9d5840a03d4

When I say CBS, I mean WCAX, NBC = WPTZ, PBS1 = WETK, FOX= WFFF, PBS2 = WCFE

hey rxheaven -

are there any STRONG signals nearby ? and by this, i mean even signals that might NOT be TV signals. the front ends in these things are wide band puppies and the mag tuner just might not handle strong RF well, even if it's removed quite a bit in frequency.

this might have been touched previously, but perhaps the Mag tuner's RF AGC is getting kicked in from some strong adjacent signal, rendering gain REDUCTION across the board...

your TV might just have a better front end and be more immune to stronger signals in terms of AGC operation...

also, and this is a longer shot, have you tried changing antenna polarization ? swing the antenna incrementally between horizontal and vertical, if you can. you might find that a small shift in polarization might produce an improvement, either by attenuating stronger signals or landing on a better angle, given that lots of things can affect the received polarization for a given signal.

i don't really think you have something ' defective ' in the mags, but moreover you might be victim to possible lower quality tuner / agc electronics...

rgds,
ron g\\
Reply
Reply
post #20419 of 23781
5/17/12 at 6:15pm
Thread Starter 


19 ea. 513 refurbs in stock @ Worldwide Distributors, $199.95.

See notes on WW on page 1, no Funai warranty or support, shipping, etc.

Reply
Reply
post #20420 of 23781
5/17/12 at 7:16pm
@ wajo, Joe, rkg : thanks for your interest/input.

I tried what wajo suggested, ran the coax through the Maggy while power cord still unpluggeg and checked the signal in the TV tuner, then I re-plugged the Maggy. Well, the signal actually went DOWN after the Mag was plugged back in
Take WCAX's example, with Mag unplugged I had about 67% and after I plugged it, 62.
On WPTZ, 87 vs 82.
On the Mag (so, obviously powered on) I get WCAX @ 18 and WPTZ @ 23.

Just to compare, CBFT (local public station) comes is at 92% in TV, 86-90 in Mag. So, technically, on local stations, the reception is very similar (max 5-10% difference - not even close to the huge discrepancy on the US stations)
Altough, for 3 stations (CKMI, CFJP and CFTU), the difference can reach 20% less on the Mag. Still, very far from going from 87% to 23 on WPTZ...

I was also very surprised to realize, after almost 24 hours of remaining unplugged, the Mag still had the channels in memory after I plugged it back in. How in the World am I suppose to reset the Mag? I did leave the coax cable plugged, though (apart from when I did the above-mentioned test). Didn't think it'd make a difference, anyway?

rkg : I've been thinking the same. Local stations are coming in very strong, so perhaps there's so saturation going on. I tried the hanging by a thread trick and such, never made a difference on the results.

Note to self: I should try setting the FM trap to "IN" on my CM7778.

As far as changing the orientation of the antenna, not possible. It took me HOURS of fine tuning to find the perfect spot (with me on the roof, on the cell phone with my wife indoors who was watching the signal meter on the TV). Those US stations are so fringe that, even a 1 or 2 degree change makes a World of difference. I can go from 80% to 60% by moving it a ¼ of an inch. On the other hand, the local stations are so close that this allows to not aim them directly (by aiming the US stations, I'm not aiming at the locals).

I don't know anyone who has the same type of OTA setup in my area. Would be hard to test the Maggys elsewhere in similar conditions.
Reply
Reply
post #20421 of 23781
5/17/12 at 8:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxheaven View Post

I tried what wajo suggested, ran the coax through the Maggy while power cord still unpluggeg and checked the signal in the TV tuner, then I re-plugged the Maggy. Well, the signal actually went DOWN after the Mag was plugged back in
Take WCAX's example, with Mag unplugged I had about 67% and after I plugged it, 62.
On WPTZ, 87 vs 82.

Totally contrary to what should happen when you unplug and replug!

I don't see how they could have produced two units that you randomly got that have the same problem with the amp/filter/amp circuit, but I can't think of anything non-electrical that could cause this behavior.

Maybe "feedback" from the pre-amp or other thing in the coax path (amps don't like each other?).. coax run thru a surge suppressor... ???

Maybe try a 2-way splitter on the coax with one output to the TV and other to the Mag?

What are your DTV-S (tuner) FW Version numbers in your units... more directly, how do your FW Versions compare to those in the FW list for your units? (This might have been covered before but I can't remember.)
Reply
Reply
post #20422 of 23781
5/17/12 at 8:10pm
  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by rkg22 View Post

    ...are there any STRONG signals nearby ? and by this, i mean even signals that might NOT be TV signals. the front ends in these things are wide band puppies and the mag tuner just might not handle strong RF well, even if it's removed quite a bit in frequency.

    this might have been touched previously, but perhaps the Mag tuner's RF AGC is getting kicked in from some strong adjacent signal, rendering gain REDUCTION across the board    ...

  • Quote:
    Originally Posted by rxheaven View Post

    ...I tried what wajo suggested, ran the coax through the Maggy while power cord still unpluggeg and checked the signal in the TV tuner, then I re-plugged the Maggy. Well, the signal actually went DOWN after the Mag was plugged back in
    Take WCAX's example, with Mag unplugged I had about 67% and after I plugged it, 62.
    On WPTZ, 87 vs 82    ...

    I like rkg22's AGC Theory, even more since ¼" of movement makes a BIG change in signal strength. One, or more, 'Notch Filters' to attenuate the locals might be what's needed. Identify your STRONGEST local channel and buy that frequency first and see what happens.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by rxheaven View Post

    ...I was also very surprised to realize, after almost 24 hours of remaining unplugged, the Mag still had the channels in memory after I plugged it back in. How in the World am I suppose to reset the Mag? I did leave the coax cable plugged, though (apart from when I did the above-mentioned test). Didn't think it'd make a difference, anyway?

    Disconnect the coax *AND* run an Auto-Scan.
Reply
Reply
post #20423 of 23781
5/17/12 at 8:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post



19 ea. 513 refurbs in stock @ Worldwide Distributors, $199.95.

See notes on WW on page 1, no Funai warranty or support, shipping, etc.


I haven't noticed any 513s on the Walmart site in quite awhile. Fortunately, they still have 515s available and the price seems to have stabilized at $329.98 (a bargain compared to current Amazon offerings).
Reply
Reply
post #20424 of 23781
5/17/12 at 11:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Totally contrary to what should happen when you unplug and replug!

I don't see how they could have produced two units that you randomly got that have the same problem with the amp/filter/amp circuit, but I can't think of anything non-electrical that could cause this behavior.

Maybe "feedback" from the pre-amp or other thing in the coax path (amps don't like each other?).. coax run thru a surge suppressor... ???

Maybe try a 2-way splitter on the coax with one output to the TV and other to the Mag?

What are your DTV-S (tuner) FW Version numbers in your units... more directly, how do your FW Versions compare to those in the FW list for your units? (This might have been covered before but I can't remember.)

hi wajo...

this condition actually makes sense under the theory that the AGC is being saturated by locals... as soon as the mag is unplugged, then no power, no agc.. just the normally weak expected bleed-thru an unpowered RF stage...

as soon as the mag gets re-plugged, receiver powers up and so does AGC, causing gain reduction and, thus, loss of signal...

rgds,
ron g
Reply
Reply
post #20425 of 23781
5/18/12 at 12:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxheaven View Post

@ wajo, Joe, rkg : thanks for your interest/input.

I tried what wajo suggested, ran the coax through the Maggy while power cord still unpluggeg and checked the signal in the TV tuner, then I re-plugged the Maggy. Well, the signal actually went DOWN after the Mag was plugged back in
Take WCAX's example, with Mag unplugged I had about 67% and after I plugged it, 62.
On WPTZ, 87 vs 82.
On the Mag (so, obviously powered on) I get WCAX @ 18 and WPTZ @ 23.

Just to compare, CBFT (local public station) comes is at 92% in TV, 86-90 in Mag. So, technically, on local stations, the reception is very similar (max 5-10% difference - not even close to the huge discrepancy on the US stations)
Altough, for 3 stations (CKMI, CFJP and CFTU), the difference can reach 20% less on the Mag. Still, very far from going from 87% to 23 on WPTZ...

I was also very surprised to realize, after almost 24 hours of remaining unplugged, the Mag still had the channels in memory after I plugged it back in. How in the World am I suppose to reset the Mag? I did leave the coax cable plugged, though (apart from when I did the above-mentioned test). Didn't think it'd make a difference, anyway?

rkg : I've been thinking the same. Local stations are coming in very strong, so perhaps there's so saturation going on. I tried the hanging by a thread trick and such, never made a difference on the results.

Note to self: I should try setting the FM trap to "IN" on my CM7778.

As far as changing the orientation of the antenna, not possible. It took me HOURS of fine tuning to find the perfect spot (with me on the roof, on the cell phone with my wife indoors who was watching the signal meter on the TV). Those US stations are so fringe that, even a 1 or 2 degree change makes a World of difference. I can go from 80% to 60% by moving it a ¼ of an inch. On the other hand, the local stations are so close that this allows to not aim them directly (by aiming the US stations, I'm not aiming at the locals).

I don't know anyone who has the same type of OTA setup in my area. Would be hard to test the Maggys elsewhere in similar conditions.


hi rx -

well, if you're a tinkerer, you could experiment with one of the mags by disconnecting the feedback path for the AGC....

i did a cursory view of the mag prints... it appears that the tuner module's AGC is actually controlled by the DTV module which, i believe, is the little vertically attached PCB at the right rear of the chassis. it's a bit further forward, and is soldered to the main A/V board...

what happens ( just based on where the connections are going; there are 3 ) is that there are 2 outputs from the tuner module, that ultimately feed the DTV module.. in the DTV module, these are processed and then a single AGC control is presented back to the the tuner module at pin 18...

there appears to be a somewhat convenient spot on the top side of the main AV PCB, where a jumper ( J1243 ) is used to feed the AGC control voltage back to the tuner module...

if one were to remove one end of this jumper, or if careful, just snip it temporarily, this would probably disable AGC control... it might require a temporary jump or resistor to ground on the tuner module side to kill the AGC and allow the tuner to open up, as it were....

the final passive component before the signal feeds to the tuner appears to be a 6.8k resistor. this means that if you discover that you're getting overload to the AGC, you might be able to install a variable pot between that jumper ( re-connected ) and ground, which would provide you with some semblance of variable control of the AGC action...

i know this sounds a bit hi-tech, but if you want to test the theory, it's kind of the only way to see if that's what's happening and, if AGC is the culprit, you have a possible way to manually adjust ( read - limit ) the AGC action in the tuner, and possibly make the thing work right in your environment.

rgds,
ron g
Reply
Reply
post #20426 of 23781
5/18/12 at 4:44am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxheaven View Post

Just to compare, CBFT (local public station) comes is at 92% in TV, 86-90 in Mag. So, technically, on local stations, the reception is very similar (max 5-10% difference - not even close to the huge discrepancy on the US stations)
Altough, for 3 stations (CKMI, CFJP and CFTU), the difference can reach 20% less on the Mag. Still, very far from going from 87% to 23 on WPTZ...

All signal meters aren't created equal. You can't really compare the signal meter numbers from your TV and the Magnavox directly. You have to consider the reading on each unit where the picture starts to break up. These Magnavox units will keep a clean picture down to about 16 but my Panasonic TV picture starts to break up at about 33. A 25 signal would be very reliable on my Magnavox but the Panasonic TV won't even lock on a channel at 30. At what signal reading does your Mitsubishi TV tuner start to lose the picture?
Reply
Reply
post #20427 of 23781
5/18/12 at 6:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

All signal meters aren't created equal. You can't really compare the signal meter numbers from your TV and the Magnavox directly. You have to consider the reading on each unit where the picture starts to break up. These Magnavox units will keep a clean picture down to about 16 but my Panasonic TV picture starts to break up at about 33. A 25 signal would be very reliable on my Magnavox but the Panasonic TV won't even lock on a channel at 30. At what signal reading does your Mitsubishi TV tuner start to lose the picture?

I understand that part, but the "relation" between both is still expected to be stable. Compare CBMT (local) that comes in at 92 on TV and 88 on Mag, you would expect another station that also comes in at 92 (WPTZ) to be roughly the same, yet it falls all the way down to 23 on the Mag. That's unexpected, to say the least.

My TV is a Panny too, BTW. And I get the same figures as you, Mag under 17 is dead, Panny under 32 in pixelised / under 29 unwatchable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClearToLand View Post


  • I like rkg22's AGC Theory, even more since ¼" of movement makes a BIG change in signal strength. One, or more, 'Notch Filters' to attenuate the locals might be what's needed. Identify your STRONGEST local channel and buy that frequency first and see what happens.

    Disconnect the coax *AND* run an Auto-Scan.

The 2 strongest locals are VHF, and all my issues are on UHF feeds. But, yes, if I could find atenuators locally, I would've tried that already. That's not the case, unfortunately.

I already did the scan with coax cable off. No joy.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Totally contrary to what should happen when you unplug and replug!

I don't see how they could have produced two units that you randomly got that have the same problem with the amp/filter/amp circuit, but I can't think of anything non-electrical that could cause this behavior.

Maybe "feedback" from the pre-amp or other thing in the coax path (amps don't like each other?).. coax run thru a surge suppressor... ???

Maybe try a 2-way splitter on the coax with one output to the TV and other to the Mag?

What are your DTV-S (tuner) FW Version numbers in your units... more directly, how do your FW Versions compare to those in the FW list for your units? (This might have been covered before but I can't remember.)

Amps don't like each other, good theory. In fact, I don't like the way the Mag's amp handles things since Day 1. Even before I decided to go with a pre-amp, the Mag has ALWAYS had a hard time picking up the same stations that my TV got just fine.

I do have a 2-way splitter, since I don't use the Mag's passthrough because it does such a poor job. At least, this way, I can watch WETK and WFFF "live" on my TV, but I can't chase-play or record them since the Mag doesn't pick'em up.

I posted my versions WAYYY back when I got the Mags and did the FW upgrade back in late Jan/early Feb. I'll search the thread and see if I can find this post.
Reply
Reply
post #20428 of 23781
5/18/12 at 6:36am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxheaven View Post

I posted my versions WAYYY back when I got the Mags and did the FW upgrade back in late Jan/early Feb. I'll search the thread and see if I can find this post.

No need, if you're at SuperFW 727V, that's as good as it gets. It would only be of "minor" interest now what your tuner FW is (DTV-S).
Reply
Reply
post #20429 of 23781
5/18/12 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

No need, if you're at SuperFW 727V, that's as good as it gets. It would only be of "minor" interest now what your tuner FW is (DTV-S).

Gotcha

Bottom line, my next attempt will be to set the FM trap to "IN" over the week-end. Kind of sucks if I have to leave it like that though, because I use the antenna for FM reception of US stations on my Marantz AV receiver.
Reply
Reply
post #20430 of 23781
5/18/12 at 7:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rxheaven View Post

Bottom line, my next attempt will be to set the FM trap to "IN" over the week-end. Kind of sucks if I have to leave it like that though, because I use the antenna for FM reception of US stations on my Marantz AV receiver.


Have you tried a DTV converter box yet, at least as a test? Maybe you can borrow one if you don't have one, to see whether it behaves more like the TV than the Mag. If like the TV and its yours or you get one of your own, you could input its output to the Mag for recording the channels the Mag won't. If it works OK it might be less bother than messing with traps or antennas. I input a Digital Stream converter box to one of my Pioneer PVRs, and use an LG DVD recorder's ATSC tuner for my other Pioneer PVR. By now used converters ought to be cheap on eBay.
Reply
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DVD Recorders (Standard Def)

Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › DVD Recorders (Standard Def) › Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575