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Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 8

post #211 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Here are some instructions that might help.

SInce your tuner is useless in a Sat System, you'll only need a line connection with Composite or S-Video from your Sat box output to the back line input on the 3575 (E1). Then, go to the link below.

Instructions for "Recording from a Set-Top Box (STB)" here. Part-way down page.
post #212 of 25446
Thread Starter 
I tested the "old" advice that High-speed dub will fit 2:09:00 total time on a DVD, and it's now 2:10:00. DVD+R and -R tested.
post #213 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

Well, it is for mine, and several others have also settled on 480p as best for them. Obviously, try them all and you might get better results from another res... must depend on which unit has the best scaler, and it appears the 3575's scaler is not as good as some fixed-pixel displays.

What make and model is your tv? My eyes may not be trained well but 480p looks a little soft, 720p better but 1080i is the best of all? I really wasn't expecting that to be the case...but then again I didn't think setting it to 1080p to a 1080p set would cause issues either. (the 1080p setting still causes the flashing)
post #214 of 25446
I found 480i from the Philips to be best on my particular display. I thought that 480p looked softer, and actually worse, also.

I also didn't care for 720p/1080i either.
post #215 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama127 View Post

What make and model is your tv? My eyes may not be trained well but 480p looks a little soft, 720p better but 1080i is the best of all? I really wasn't expecting that to be the case...but then again I didn't think setting it to 1080p to a 1080p set would cause issues either. (the 1080p setting still causes the flashing)

Mine is a Vizio GV47L 47" 1080p LCD. Sounds as if 1080i is best for your TV... whatever works, eh?

Have you tried the YCbCr setting in the HDMI > Format menu to see if any diff. in your system? Might make a diff. esp. in playing commercial DVDs if your TV is YCbCr (digital Component) compliant... if not, the 3575 reverts to RGB anyway.

If I remember right, you're on digital cable? How many digital channels can you get with the 3575?
post #216 of 25446
My Panasonic 720p LCD also liked the 480i best, and I personally didn't notice anything changing when I tried the YCbCr. But as Wabjxo said, what ever looks best, is best
post #217 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

My Panasonic 720p LCD also liked the 480i best, and I personally didn't notice anything changing when I tried the YCbCr. But as Wabjxo said, what ever looks best, is best

Try a commercial DVD with YCbCr vs RGB and see if any diff. in your system? If your TV is not YCbCr compliant, it'll revert to RGB anyway, so no loss.

P.S. Can't get 480i with HDMI... you using Component? If using Component, ignore YCbCr test above, doesn't apply except to HDMI.
post #218 of 25446
Actually I've decided on 720p...I can hardly tell the difference between 720p and 1080i but I don't like feeding an interlaced signal to a progressive tv if I don't have to. Should I be concerned that the 1080p setting doesn't work on my 1080p tv? If it's not something that will make a noticeable difference I'm willing to blow it off...I'm tired of buying brand new recorders and either having to take them back or send them off to a service center.
post #219 of 25446
Thread Starter 
I'm not sure why your unit doesn't output 1080p correctly. I do know that any output mode that your TV doesn't support will be "skipped"... not sure what that means related to the no-1080p thing.

Have you tried YCbCR setting in the HDMI Format menu?

Also, how many digital channels can your 3575 tune?
post #220 of 25446
Wabjxo,
"P.S. Can't get 480i with HDMI.."

Well you're correct. I just use one HDMI cable for ease, and it is indeed 480p. I guess I didnt notice the p/i since I didn't have the choice for i, when pushing the HDMI button.

Jomana127-Yes I too also do not get 1080p as a choice, but do get 1080i. My TV is only 720p, so I wasn't too worried, but I did find it odd that I could get 1080i as a choice, and it does work, but just not better. Although I do get 1080i signals OTA, and they generally tend to look better PQ than 720p signals, I kinda gave up what the numbers say, and just go with what looks best.

I use RGB, because then I have the choice of "RGB range" which I use "normal" it gives me a much lighter picture. Enhanced looks way to dark and contrasty. On my TV anyway.
post #221 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

I'm not sure why your unit doesn't output 1080p correctly. I do know that any output mode that your TV doesn't support will be "skipped"... not sure what that means related to the no-1080p thing.

Have you tried YCbCR setting in the HDMI Format menu?

Also, how many digital channels can your 3575 tune?

The tuner seems fine...I get everything that I got before, and the PQ is nearly as good as the internal Panasonic tuner and better than any cable box I've had. I think that the 1080p output on the Philips is either defective or my tv just doesn't like it for some reason. Like I said, I'm not going to fret about it as long as everything else works fine...I really can't see much if any PQ difference between 720p, 1080i and 1080p (except for the intermitten flashing at 1080p)
post #222 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff View Post

Well you're correct. I just use one HDMI cable for ease, and it is indeed 480p.

Correct. When I said my display preferred 480i, it was through component, only after I tried HDMI.
post #223 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama127 View Post

I think that the 1080p output on the Philips is either defective or my tv just doesn't like it for some reason.

At the risk of "belaboring" this point, I'd be interested if your TV might like YCbCr (digital) format rather than the default RGB (component) output.

Would you consider changing that just for a test with 1080p output... might help someone else someday with a similar problem... and I'm curious too?
post #224 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

At the risk of "belaboring" this point, I'd be interested if your TV might like YCbCr (digital) format rather than the default RGB (component) output.

Would you consider changing that just for a test with 1080p output... might help someone else someday with a similar problem... and I'm curious too?

I meant to respond earlier but...I tried the YCbCr and I can't tell much if any difference in the PQ but the flashing seems to be gone when I use the 1080p setting now! Of course I haven't recorded anything since I changed the setting but I'll report back if there are any issues. Thanks for the help.
post #225 of 25446
I too had some strange picture issues when I first got my 3575, when I would push the HDMI button to toggle between different outputs. Thankfully it only lasted a short while, and every thing's fine now.
post #226 of 25446
Just to confirm..it seems that changing my HDMI setting to YCbCr solved the issue I had with the 1080p setting. This is both for watching live tv as well as recording. Now...if chase playback was a possiblity this would would be the near perfect Tivo alternative.
post #227 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama127 View Post

Just to confirm..it seems that changing my HDMI setting to YCbCr solved the issue I had with the 1080p setting. This is both for watching live tv as well as recording. Now...if chase playback was a possiblity this would would be the near perfect Tivo alternative.

Chase playback works fine. If you're recording, just press PLAY and watch away, FF, REW, Skip, Replay to your hearts content!

P.S. If you STOP playback, don't press STOP again as long as it's still recording or the recording will stop.
post #228 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

Chase playback works fine. If you're recording, just press PLAY and watch away, FF, REW, Skip, Replay to your hearts content!

P.S. If you STOP playback, don't press STOP again as long as it's still recording or the recording will stop.

Does this work for a timer recording? I tried it once and it didn't work but then again I was trying to play by hitting the "title" button and starting from there..
post #229 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama127 View Post

Does this work for a timer recording? I tried it once and it didn't work but then again I was trying to play by hitting the "title" button and starting from there..

Yes, no problem... chase any recording with the PLAY button.

I've chase played a timer rec after only 10-sec of recording (just for a test to see if any time delay needed).
post #230 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama127 View Post

Does this work for a timer recording? I tried it once and it didn't work but then again I was trying to play by hitting the "title" button and starting from there..

I have used the "Title" button to watch a title while a timed recording was taking place. I have watched the title that was being recorded or a previously recorded title.
post #231 of 25446
I took some time to actually read (not just skim as I had done previously) wabjxo's guide last night and discovered that every issue I had was already covered in detail. I apologize for wasting everyones time but thanks for the help anyway.

edit- wabjxo...you should get a hefty monthly check from Philips for providing more (and much better) info on their product than they could ever hope to do themselves.
post #232 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemama127 View Post

I took some time to actually read (not just skim as I had done previously) wabjxo's guide last night and discovered that every issue I had was already covered in detail. I apologize for wasting everyones time but thanks for the help anyway.

edit- wabjxo...you should get a hefty monthly check from Philips for providing more (and much better) info on their product than they could ever hope to do themselves.

Thanks for reading and reporting good results.

I think my checks are getting lost in the mail!
post #233 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by wabjxo View Post

Thanks for reading and reporting good results.

I think my checks are getting lost in the mail!

I sent you a check but it arrived at my address. Oops address mistake!

Great thread by the way and a tremendous amount of work. You've helped a lot of people. Which is a good thing.
post #234 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the compliment... esp. nice from someone like you, who's been a great help to others on many other projects!

BTW, I've put in an address change for you. I'll let you know when your tax refund arrives!

post #235 of 25446
Thread Starter 
IN STOCK AGAIN, $329.88.

(Can't show name or they'll suddenly change it to "out of stock"!)
post #236 of 25446
Thread Starter 


HDD OPERATING AND MAINTENANCE TIPS

Jump To:
How Our HDD Operates
Regaining Space on Your HDD
HDD Self-Check and Initialization/Formatting Procedure
Some Tips on Maintaining Your HDD
Repair Utility
Reliability & Longevity of Our HDD
General Info on HDD Longevity
Optimum Use of HDD for Enhanced Longevity?

How Our HDD Operates

The Hard Disk Drive (HDD) in this DVDR and others is like the one in your computer, except it doesn't have a robust operating system like Windows. Our HDDs just have to record streams of video and audio ("User Data") and place them in files and folders for later playing and dubbing... pretty simple stuff.

Just like a computer, a DVDR's HDD stores "pointers" to the User Data (your recordings)... the locations of the actual User Data and the order in which it should be "addressed" for playback or dubbing. That pointer info is in the title/index pic we see in our Title Menu. When we delete a title, the only thing deleted is the location and address info. Without that info, the User Data no longer exists as far as the op. system (OS) is concerned... it now has "permission" to overwrite those file spaces.

Edit instructions are written as we select Start and End points, Divide a title, select an index pic, etc.

To "prove" to yourself that your DVDR is NOT physically deleting the actual User Data, next time you delete a title, notice how FAST it happens... doesn't matter how long the title is, 2-hrs or 12-hrs, it's "deleted" in the blink of an eye. . and your DVDR OS is SLOW compared to a computer. The DVDR doesn't overwrite it or otherwise do ANYTHING to the User Data except delete the pointer/addressing info.

As a HDD gets full and files are added, deleted and, especially, EDITED, it becomes "fragmented," which means files have been broken into chunks and stored in available empty spaces amongst the multimillion sectors on the HDD. But the robust computer HDD can keep track of all those fragments and assemble them rather quickly when you ask it to... it has a central processing unit (CPU) that operates extremely fast, and it has lots of random-access memory (RAM) and a large cache for temporary storage. But even a robust computer uses the HDD for temporary storage when/if needed.

Our more-simplistic DVDR operating system can also handle fragmented files, especially if all you do is record the typical shows on TV, then watch and delete. You'll be filling and reopening large, contiguous chunks of space on the HDD for more recordings.

You can FILL the HDD with recorded titles as long as you don't start EDITING them. For an ongoing test, I regularly let my refurb'd 3575 fill completely up with a 2-hr M-F timer recording but did no editing. No adverse consequences at all... it just stops recording at the instant the HDD fills up! I delete all the titles at once with the HDD Menu > Delete All Titles command, then start over.

Editing, however, creates lots of ADDITIONAL info to keep track of, like "Delete Title X, Sector X, Fragment X, 01:28:15:24 to 01:31:25:03" (hr:mm:ss:frame), and that data has to be stored until the title is deleted. Again, not a problem if the User Data it applies to is not all over the place, spread amongst many HDD sector, on a too-full, fragmented HDD.

But what happens if many or all of your edits apply to small fragments of User Data all over the HDD? Like a Delete command that applies to the end of Fragment A Sector A and beginning of Fragment B Sector Y. Each start and stop time for each fragment has to be stored until that title is deleted, so two edit instruction for one single Delete. Or a Divide that splits umpteen fragments into two individual titles with multiple Delete instructions that now have to be re-correlated to those new individual title(s).... you get the picture... lots to keep track of!

Lots of detail left out here, and lots of actual "unknowns" so assumptions have been made. Just trying to keep it simple.

Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.

Regaining Space on Your HDD

These DVDRs don't have a "defrag" or "optimize" option, so you'll have to serve as the "optimizer" using several methods listed below. 

Offload HDD Title "Keepers" to DVD
For those titles you want to keep in your archive, offload them to DVDs, then Delete the HDD titles. To offload to DVDs most "efficiently" while maintaining daily usability, use either the Last-in First-Out (LIFO) or First-In-First-Out (FIFO) method of offloading. The point is to Delete full titles at either end of the sequential User Data on the HDD instead of creating "holes" midstream and creating more work for the OS.

Use "Title Delete" or "Delete All Titles" Command
If you highlight a title and press OK, that brings up a Delete Multiple Titles option which can be used to delete multiple titles you select, as described here. There's also a "Delete All Titles" command in the Setup > HDD Menu for deleting ALL titles in one shot... also great for deleting a "frozen" title that resists normal Title Delete, as described here.

HDD Format or Factory Check
Two more-drastic methods are SKIP 079 - Format and SKIP 013 - HDD Factory Check, both of which end up with a "clean" HDD, with no more title pointers so, duh!, you'll lose all recorded titles in one op..

Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.

HDD Self-Check and Initialization/Formatting Procedure

See this help file for info and procedures for self-checking HDD/DVD cable connections, removing/replacing the HDD and DVD burner, and Initializing/Formatting the original HDD or its replacement (which could be a HDD up to 500GB capacity).

Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.

Some Tips on Maintaining Your HDD

In the end, it's in your best interests to maintain adequate empty space on your HDD, especially before doing complex editing. Some personal tips are:
  1. For titles you just want to watch, delete them ASAP after viewing.
     
  2. For titles you want to keep permanently, dub them to DVD disc ASAP and delete them from the HDD. If needed later, you can always dub them back to the HDD for editing or whatever. The PQ degradation from a real-time dub ON THIS DVDR (Philips-developed codec) is not as bad as you've heard on other DVDRs, esp. if working with a program from a digital channel.
     
  3. Don't try to make complex edits (Divides and Deletes) if your HDD is over 95% full. That's an arbitrary, untested number... just use good judgement! Unlike some other DVDRs, these DVDRs don't freeze up when they get totally full, they just stop recording video or editing instructions, but better to be safe than sorry.
     
  4. If you encounter a problem on an HDD that's "too full" and want to gain more space, never EDIT stuff out cuz that just adds more complex instructions for the HDD and cache to store and track. DELETE OR DUB TITLES TO DVD IN LIFO OR FIFO ORDER, NOT TITLES IN THE MIDDLE!
     
  5. To eliminate the need for Dividing back-to-back shows on the same channel, set individual timer rec programs back-to-back rather than all in one block of time. This gives you separate titles on the HDD. This DVDR is excellent at transitioning between timer programs, losing only 3-sec. of succeeding titles after the first one on analog channels, 5-7 sec if a digital channel is involved. Same for back-to-back programs on different channels.

 

Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.

Repair Utility

There's a Repair Utility that the machine can invoke automatically if there is a HDD problem, like power failure during recording.

"Repairing appears on the TV screen and, as explained in the manual:

  • If there is a power failure or unplugging during recording, finalizing, formatting or editing (even after Repairing disappears), a repairing process will begin automatically just after turning the unit on again. It may take several minutes up to about several hours.

Our HDDs can repair themselves as you use them. My refurb'd 3575 has a "bad" HDD... slow to start up, noisy, freezes on playback of frist three titles, won't Initialize with Skip 079, fails Skip 013, etc. I've been letting it fill up with titles then deleting them all at once, and now it plays first three titles and Initializes normally!

Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.

Reliability & Longevity of Our HDD

The spec sheets for our HDDs show that they're "designed for 24/7 operation." For example, the Hitachi drives used in the 2160 have a spec called "Availability[4] (hrs/day x days/wk)" and a value of "24x7."

The footnote [4] says this about the 24x7 value:

"Intended for low duty cycle, non mission-critical applications in PC, nearline, and consumer electronics environments, which may vary from application to application."

I think our normal use of these drives is considered "EXTREMELY low duty cycle" compared to PC usage, considering the highest-stress recording function operates at a max. of 11 Mbps (HQ rec mode), compared to the drive's max. Media Transfer Rate of 1138 Mbps!

Our HDDs also spin on either a non-contact air bearing or, in the case of the Hitachi, a "fluid bearing"... high-viscosity synthetic oil between the sleeve and stator so "there is more conforming surface contact through the lubricant as compared to a Ball Bearing design. Additionally, the lubricant film provides additional damping to shock."

The low duty cycle and fluid bearing, combined with the fact that the mfgr's rated longevity is measured in start/stop cycles, not spin time, should give people at least a reduced concern over autostart rec and leaving the machine on for relatively long periods of time.

Don't forget that setting the Source to L3 (DV) STOPS autorecording for as long as the machine's on that line input (if you're concerned at all)!

Also, several long, continuous recording tests have proved these DVDRs don't get hot.

YMMV of course!?

Go back to list.... Go to main list of help files.

General Info on HDD Longevity

Drive mfgrs used to rate their HDD reliability in hours (MTBF) but changed to "start/stop" or "load/unload" cycles as they found it was a more appropriate measure of reliability.

 

A start/stop cycle is defined here as a power-on/power-off cycle... 50,000 is the norm. Note that the linked article mentions the ongoing "controversy" over always-spinning vs. start/stop aficionados and says we "shouldn't sweat" the small stuff.

 

Hitachi uses "load/unload" cycles with 300,000 being the norm, a "better" design used first by IBM for their HDDs using load/unload ramps. (Hitachi bought the IBM HDD division in 2003, and WD bought Hitachi's HDD ops in 2012.). A Hitachi article describes the load/unload mechanics.

 

In the REAL world, experts say 3-5 years is a good lifespan for a modern HDD in a typical computer environment (hard work), as described here. Those just happen to be the std warranty period for HDDs... as of Jan 1 2009, Seagate lowered their std warranty period from 5 years to 3 years for our 3575/3576 HDD, and the same as the Hitachi 2160 HDD. Other mfgrs soon followed suit.

"Bit Flux" (or "Fade")

 

Following are links to two articles that describe info collected from HDD engineers at major mfgrs, which mention "bit flux" (rather than the familiar "disc fade") as a potential problem on HDDs stored without reading for long periods of time. These articles suggest a complete read as being a prudent investment in data longevity on a stored HDD:

Hard Disk Warning! by Larry Jordan.

Technique: Refreshing Hard Disk Storage, by Larry Jordan

The latter article is for apps with computer op systems but still helpful for its suggestion that just reading a drive helps it maintain data integrity. A simple, overnight checksum does the job.

One AVS user who uses the regular checksum method is Sean Nelson. Here's what he does to maintain data integrity on HDDs used for long-term storage.

Here's some additional info on HDD longevity by SteelTownGuy.

There are many other anectodal user posts on "actual" HDD longevity, incl. one "contrarian" who stored HDDs with data on them in a drawer for up to 10 years and they read fine? Many posts and tech. articles talk about the electronics being the most susceptible to "going bad" over a long time. The HDD/DVD electronics for this DVDR are in the smaller PCB board between the HDD and DVD burner (above the main board).
 

Update 8/2/11 - The latest HDDs, like the WD AV-GP series in the 515, have a feature called Preemptive Wear Leveling (PWL) that sweeps the drive arm frequently across the disk to reduce uneven wear on the drive surface common to audio video streaming applications. This might just be the ticket to preventing bit fade?


Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.

Optimum Use of HDD for Enhanced Longevity?

For people who might be concerned about using the *same* portion of their HDD by watching-and-deleting, there's been some expert discussion of "bit fade" on HDDs not used for long periods, and some questions being asked in other forums on the effects of recording over the same space repeatedly. So, other people are concerned as well.

Those experts say that reading an entire HDD once per year or every two years will prevent bit fade. Of course, then someone starts talking about having HDDs in a drawer for 10 years and they work right away when reinstalled in their computer. So, needless to say, this is one of those subjects that can stir up needless controversy.

We don't have a CHKDSK or other computer-like utility that we can invoke to read an entire disc w/o losing access to recorded titles. The best we can do is fill the HDD up with recordings to make sure we've "used" every bit.

To see if there are any adverse effects of this, I've been letting the HDD in my refurb'd 3575 with a "bad" HDD fill up with recorded titles and, when the HDD fills up, it just stops recording and won't record any more. This 3575 was always slow to start up, noisy, froze on playback of first three titles, wouldn't Initialize with Skip 079, failed Skip 013, etc. After several fill-ups, it now plays the first three titles and Initializes normally, so I think filling-er-up once in awhile is a good thing all around!

 

DanHuff tried my "fill-er-up" procedure to fix his "problematic" HDD.

IMO, some people who don't do a lot of editing will benefit from letting their HDD get full yearly or every other year to keep all the bits active. You can do this slowly or quickly, as follows.

 

Slowly, During Normal Recording Season: Record your normal shows at 1-hr-HQ rec mode. Change all your timer rec programs to HQ and record as many shows as possible, watching oldest shows first (as usual) and Protecting them after watching to identify them as "watched" (with the lock icon), then Unprotecting and Deleting them at an appropriate time.

 

Quickly, During Summer Doldrums: Set one or more 12-hour timers (11:59:59) at HQ rec mode and fill up all remaining free space on your HDD with "anything" in the summer, then delete them all at once with one command. You can run these 12-hour sessions at night, while you're asleep! Even with a completely empty HDD, the number of "12-hour" titles needed at HQ to sufficiently "fill" a disk would be approx. (subtract existing title lengths from these):

 

GB      #12-hr Titles    Plus  
160 2 9 hrs
320 5 0 hrs
500 8

4 hrs

1000 17 4 hrs

Either way, after you fill a disc, use either the Title List > Delete Multiple Titles command or the HDD Menu > Delete All Titles command, depending on whether you must preserve any titles or not.

Remember, this is only a once-a-year or every 2-year PITA, and it can be done in the summer, not during prime season!

If you do a lot of editing, you prob. already know that keeping some "head-room" is essential to prevent problems caused by a too-full disc with lots of edit instructions and fragments throughout the HDD. Those people will prob. have to keep doing what they're doing now, or record till disc-full at some convenient time once a year or every two years....

Or you can go with the guy who said all this was a crock... he pulled 10-year-old HDDs out of a drawer and they worked fine, in his computer, and hope it works the same in your DVDR 

Go back to List. ...... Go to main list of help files.


Edited by wajo - 12/8/13 at 2:33pm
post #237 of 25446
Thread Starter 
FYI: My wife saw, for the first time here, the 3575 turn itself on at midnight. It was off again when we woke up, so it had shut itself off after some time.

It was probably for the auto-clock signal from PBS, which is supposed to occur at midnight and noon.

Nothing scheduled to rec for at least 18 hours from then.

I thought it was interesting cuz I've never seen this and really haven't noticed it happening at noon... and I didn't know it might have to be ON for the clock signal.

Might be a "fluke" so I'll be watching more closely JFTHOI.
post #238 of 25446
Mine sets the clock at noon and midnight as the manual says,
and since I never have it running at those times
it must power up to do so.
post #239 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Well, none of my units turned on at noon, so it was prob. a "fluke" when one unit did at midnight?
post #240 of 25446
Can't specifically comment on the 3575, since I've never heard it start up by itself, but my Panasonic EZ-17 does startup by itself, then spin the disc, and turn off. Doesn't seem to do it at any particular time, just kind of weird. I've heard it do this 6? times. I guess I just chalked it up the general flakiness of the unit. Maybe all DVDR's w/digital tuners startup and do some kind of self check every once in a while?? I've never heard it discussed anywhere though. I've never heard any of my other analog tuner DVDR's do this...Note I do use the autoclock set feature on all my DVDR's, but don't think the startup thing happens just at midnight or even noon. I'll try and keep an eye on it.
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