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Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 740

post #22171 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

You have the Mag's TV Aspect set for "16:9 Wide" and your TV set for "Wide" (or whatever its 16:9 setting is named)?

If so, true 4:3 programs will look slightly stretched, but 16:9 WS programs on digital channels will be in true 16:9..

Ok edit. I played with the settings alot this morning. On OTA, I get what you suggest. Tru 16:9 content is 16:9 content, and 4:3 is stretched to 16:9.

Its the cable box output that is wierd. I should say that I basically put the maggie in place in the exact same place my panny ez-27 was. On the panny regardless of settings of tv or player I always got a 4:3 image, with 16:9 embedded in 4:3. The input on both players is s-video and audio from the SA 8300hd dVR. On the maggie I now get stretched 16:9 content embedded in a 4:3 image, or basically what looks like a 2.35:1 image full screen. (the 16:9 embedded in 4:3 is stretched horizontally to full screen, the vertical is still 16:9 embedded in 4:3.) 4:3 content is stretched. I never got that on the panny and am told that the SA 8300hd only puts out 4:3 on s-video and composite. (I tried the composite and I get the same behavior). So something in the chain is doing the stretching. I'm suspecting some EDID quirk between the TV and maggie. Cycling the aspect ratio settings on the maggie has no affect on anything, so I assume the TV is doing the stretching? I can get the behavior I expect, standard 4:3 with 16:9 embedded, when I set that HDMI input on the TV to an aspect ratio of 4:3. The only down side to that is that now OTA programming is also now all 4:3 with 16:9 embedded. I can't find one set of settings for all.

I have yet to record anything to disc to see what another player will do with the recorded content. If it is the TV that is doing the stretching, then I should get all 4:3 content to disc as I did with the panny, but for now that is just conjecture.
Edited by glangford - 11/10/12 at 6:09am
post #22172 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotb9 View Post

The receiver I was refering to is one my cable provider uses at their office (they have several that they use). They capture the OTA signals and then direct them out all over the city I live in via fiber optic cable. The fiber optic cable is then connected to a box called a "Gateway" which is connected to the outside of my house. There is a coaxial cable from the Gateway into the house which is then connected directly to my 515 and then I use a HDMI from the 515 to the TV.
The reciever in question also brings in a few other channels that I never watch so I really don't care if I can record them or not, but I do want to record CBS, NBC, and ABC which are also comming through the same reciever.
I did do a new channel search on the 515 but it didn't help.
My question is, Do you think a stabilizer will work for me? and if so, which one do you recommend I try?
Thank you so much for your help.

Thank you for clarification. I'm sorry, the last time I used a stabilizer was on a VCR in the 80's. I know how you feel since I have two Panasonic EZ28 DVDR that won't record any of my digital cable channels. No problem with analog or RWY, just the tuner and only if I try to record.

You could try wajo's suggestion: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=20556041
post #22173 of 25403
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

You have the Mag's TV Aspect set for "16:9 Wide" and your TV set for "Wide" (or whatever its 16:9 setting is named)?

If so, true 4:3 programs will look slightly stretched, but 16:9 WS programs on digital channels will be in true 16:9..

Ok edit. I played with the settings alot this morning. On OTA, I get what you suggest. Tru 16:9 content is 16:9 content, and 4:3 is stretched to 16:9.

Its the cable box output that is wierd. I should say that I basically put the maggie in place in the exact same place my panny ez-27 was. On the panny regardless of settings of tv or player I always got a 4:3 image, with 16:9 embedded in 4:3. The input on both players is s-video and audio from the SA 8300hd dVR. On the maggie I now get stretched 16:9 content embedded in a 4:3 image, or basically what looks like a 2.35:1 image full screen. (the 16:9 embedded in 4:3 is stretched horizontally to full screen, the vertical is still 16:9 embedded in 4:3.) 4:3 content is stretched. I never got that on the panny and am told that the SA 8300hd only puts out 4:3 on s-video and composite. (I tried the composite and I get the same behavior). So something in the chain is doing the stretching. I'm suspecting some EDID quirk between the TV and maggie. Cycling the aspect ratio settings on the maggie has no affect on anything, so I assume the TV is doing the stretching? I can get the behavior I expect, standard 4:3 with 16:9 embedded, when I set that HDMI input on the TV to an aspect ratio of 4:3. The only down side to that is that now OTA programming is also now all 4:3 with 16:9 embedded. I can't find one set of settings for all.

I have yet to record anything to disc to see what another player will do with the recorded content. If it is the TV that is doing the stretching, then I should get all 4:3 content to disc as I did with the panny, but for now that is just conjecture.

 

I believe what you're describing is exactly as expected if a STB/DVR does not send true 16:9 WS via composite/S-video. The STB/DVR is adding LB bars top and bottom, and the Mag/Tv combo are further reducing that to the 2:35:1 look you describe.

 

I also believe a filter/converter will give you my "desired" resultas (and maybe yours too) of true 16:9 WS from digital channels with 16:9 programs and slightly stretched 4:3 programs with a HDTV set for "Wide" or in native 4:3 with HDTV set for "Normal" or "4:3."

post #22174 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by glangford View Post

So something in the chain is doing the stretching. I'm suspecting some EDID quirk between the TV and maggie. Cycling the aspect ratio settings on the maggie has no affect on anything, so I assume the TV is doing the stretching? I can get the behavior I expect, standard 4:3 with 16:9 embedded, when I set that HDMI input on the TV to an aspect ratio of 4:3. The only down side to that is that now OTA programming is also now all 4:3 with 16:9 embedded. I can't find one set of settings for all.
Some TVs automatically set the aspect ratio to 4:3 for 480 input signals and 16:9 for 720 and higher. Try cycling through the HDMI modes with the HDMI button on the Magnavox remote to see if that changes anything.
post #22175 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotb9 View Post

The fiber optic cable is then connected to a box called a "Gateway" which is connected to the outside of my house. There is a coaxial cable from the Gateway into the house which is then connected directly to my 515 and then I use a HDMI from the 515 to the TV.
Is this FiOS?
post #22176 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

Some TVs automatically set the aspect ratio to 4:3 for 480 input signals and 16:9 for 720 and higher. Try cycling through the HDMI modes with the HDMI button on the Magnavox remote to see if that changes anything.

Tried that, it didn't work.
post #22177 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I believe what you're describing is exactly as expected if a STB/DVR does not send true 16:9 WS via composite/S-video. The STB/DVR is adding LB bars top and bottom, and the Mag/Tv combo are further reducing that to the 2:35:1 look you describe.

I also believe a filter/converter will give you my "desired" resultas (and maybe yours too) of true 16:9 WS from digital channels with 16:9 programs and slightly stretched 4:3 programs with a HDTV set for "Wide" or in native 4:3 with HDTV set for "Normal" or "4:3."

I used to have a SA8300 and indeed the composite and S-vid outs 4:3. I bought a converter and it worked fine. There is also a way to get the SA8300 to output an anamorphic 16-9 picture, but it is somewhat involved. If the OP is interested the info is right here on AVS- search SA8300, SARA, anamorphic.

Anamorphic DVDs.
First some background. Basically, Anamorphic DVDs are SD DVDs that have wide screen image "Squeezed" rather than recorded in letterbox format (where upper/lower black bars are wasted). This results in DVD with more resolution. While some DVD recorders/formats support inclusion of anamorphic (16:9) flag, you do not really need flag if you can view DVDs in "stretch" mode. If DVD recorder does have ability to set this flag, then "stretch" will automatically occur in DVD player.

To make this work you need to get SA8300HD to "squeeze" images. 8300HD will do this on Composite/S-Video outputs when in SD mode. Once in SD mode, Zoom button (usually #) on remote will go to "Stretch 480i" mode. This results in 16:9 image being squeezed into 4:3 space so you can record it. It is recommended you use S-Video connection on 8300 for these recordings. Note: when 8300HD is in SD mode, Component outputs will be magenta in color - so you need to be watching what you are doing through DVD recorder output.

Instructions:
With TV tuned to 8300 input, turn 8300 off.
Press both Guide/Info on front panel of 8300.
Setup Wizard will come up - Simply press "A" to go into SD mode.
Do Hard Reboot (described earlier).
Select program to be recorded and make sure DVD recorder is ready to record.
Start DVD recorder, play program on 8300, and press "#" once to get into Stretch (actually Squeeze) mode.
When done and ready to return 8300 to regular HD operation, go through Setup Wizard again. This time press "B" to set up HD mode with desired resolutions and then do a Hard Reboot again.
Note: The Hard Reboot steps were needed with 1.88.17.100 because 8300 would randomly drop out of SD mode, go back to normal letterboxed mode, and then come on in SD mode when turned on next day. Hard Reboot with desired mode (SD or HD) seems to force 8300 to remember correct mode. This does not apply to 1.89.x.x or later software.


Edited to add instructions
post #22178 of 25403
I was looking at the Magnavox 515 and 535 series at Walmart. It looks like the 515 is more expensive. Why is that? I thought the newer 535 would be more expensive. Is there a reason to go with the 515 rather than the 535?
post #22179 of 25403
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dexbrs1nks View Post

I was looking at the Magnavox 515 and 535 series at Walmart. It looks like the 515 is more expensive. Why is that? I thought the newer 535 would be more expensive. Is there a reason to go with the 515 rather than the 535?

 

Get the cheaper, newer 535 by all means!

 

The high-priced 513's and 515's still around are from sellers who tried to make some extra $$$ after 515 production wound down for a few months. They are apparently still finding people who don't know better units are available at Walmart at lower prices, and even at Amazon where the bad-boys are still finding some uninformed buyers... even tho Reviews are posted to warn them!?

post #22180 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by dexbrs1nks View Post

I was looking at the Magnavox 515 and 535 series at Walmart. It looks like the 515 is more expensive. Why is that? I thought the newer 535 would be more expensive. Is there a reason to go with the 515 rather than the 535?

The price for the 515H does have NOT AVAILABLE under it.
post #22181 of 25403
Thanks Wajo - I saw your review and link to AVS forum on Amazon. Haven't been to this site in a while. Going to go ahead and order thru Walmart
post #22182 of 25403
Trying to resurrect one of these as a spare DVR.
I have two aspect issues;
1. Switching between the different HDMI resolution choices on a HD channel, two show 16x9 (proper), the other two show 4x3 (compressed).
2. Switching between analog & digital stations, analog are stretched and digital are ok in 16x9, but the reverse if set to 4x3. Is there a workaround for this or do you have to switch aspects on the TV every time?

Is this the DVR or the TV or a combination? TV is a Sammy LCD. I tried component and it appears to have the same issues (other than there is no resolution change available).
post #22183 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Trying to resurrect one of these as a spare DVR.
I have two aspect issues;
1. Switching between the different HDMI resolution choices on a HD channel, two show 16x9 (proper), the other two show 4x3 (compressed).
2. Switching between analog & digital stations, analog are stretched and digital are ok in 16x9, but the reverse if set to 4x3. Is there a workaround for this or do you have to switch aspects on the TV every time?
Is this the DVR or the TV or a combination? TV is a Sammy LCD. I tried component and it appears to have the same issues (other than there is no resolution change available).

If this is about playback of a saved title, I find that, since everything is saved as SD, HD comes out in as it went in except the video is upscaled from 480i and the audio is DD2.0. I have my 515H set to 1080p fixed and 16x9. This does cause SD recordings to come out in letterbox.

If this is about using the unit as a tuner, it may have different results. I find used as a tuner the WS is preserved even at 480p. Both my AVR and TV are set to not mess with the resolution or aspect ratio as a default.

I never watch analog.
Edited by JoeKustra - 11/11/12 at 6:07am
post #22184 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

Is this FiOS?

I'lm sorry, I'm not as knowlegable as most of you on this list so I don't know what "FiOS" means.
confused.gif
post #22185 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotb9 View Post

I'lm sorry, I'm not as knowlegable as most of you on this list so I don't know what "FiOS" means.
confused.gif

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS
post #22186 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robotb9 View Post

I'lm sorry, I'm not as knowlegable as most of you on this list so I don't know what "FiOS" means.
confused.gif
It's a fiber optic service offered by Verizon similar to the system you described. I asked because FiOS has unusual channel assignments that prevents auto channel preset from working correctly. Apparently you don't have that service.
post #22187 of 25403
Joe;
This just playback. Anyone else regarding aspect changes between analog & digital?

Robotb9;
I believe all of Verizon's channels/services are encrypted.
post #22188 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by dexbrs1nks View Post

I was looking at the Magnavox 515 and 535 series at Walmart. It looks like the 515 is more expensive. Why is that? I thought the newer 535 would be more expensive. Is there a reason to go with the 515 rather than the 535?

 

Personally speaking, I would get the newer model no matter what the price was, because some are saying that the tuner PQ is improved from the older ones (mainly, the black crush issue).

 

Now, whether that's true or not, I don't know, but that's what I would do, to find out for myself. Don't know if they finally upgraded the outdated ATSC chip that the older ones had, though. If it turned out it was no better, I wouldn't want that, either. Didn't work for me nearly as well as the latest ones do here.

 

But those things may not matter to you. There may be some remote control differences.


Edited by Rammitinski - 11/12/12 at 4:15am
post #22189 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

I believe all of Verizon's channels/services are encrypted.
All of the local channels, WGN, and a weather channel are available ClearQAM. There are some channel conflicts that auto channel preset can't handle without a little help.
post #22190 of 25403
But, that is market dependent isn't it?
post #22191 of 25403
Quote:
some are saying that the tuner PQ is improved from the older ones (mainly, the black crush issue).
Interesting you mention this as this is one thing I noticed right off the bat when I first hooked it up to a 32" LCD Sammy TV. Depending on the program, there is no detail in many of the dark areas whether it be dark clothing, shadows or just low lighting. The same program from a HD source showed some, but not anywhere as much of the same problem.
post #22192 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verizon_FiOS

My cable company is not Verizon but the picture from that link is very similar to the box on the side of my house.
post #22193 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Interesting you mention this as this is one thing I noticed right off the bat when I first hooked it up to a 32" LCD Sammy TV. Depending on the program, there is no detail in many of the dark areas whether it be dark clothing, shadows or just low lighting. The same program from a HD source showed some, but not anywhere as much of the same problem.

All cable is local.

A good test for "blacks" or "whites" is lapels on a dark or black jacket. If they can not be seen, it's usually a poor picture or poor lighting. Until I used a cheap calibration disk, my 32" Sony didn't display them. I find no problem with my 515H now that the TV is adjusted for the Mag HDMI input. Even a minimal calibration can improve factory defaults.
post #22194 of 25403
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Quote:
some are saying that the tuner PQ is improved from the older ones (mainly, the black crush issue).
Interesting you mention this as this is one thing I noticed right off the bat when I first hooked it up to a 32" LCD Sammy TV. Depending on the program, there is no detail in many of the dark areas whether it be dark clothing, shadows or just low lighting. The same program from a HD source showed some, but not anywhere as much of the same problem.

 

Hooked what up?

post #22195 of 25403
Joe;
If I try to tweak it anymore, the buttons will fall off the remote. The blacks are just clipped. There is no detail. Half the problem is the TV, the other half ids the deck.

Wajo;
2160MW9
post #22196 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

Joe;
If I try to tweak it anymore, the buttons will fall off the remote. The blacks are just clipped. There is no detail. Half the problem is the TV, the other half ids the deck.
Wajo;
2160MW9

That's sad. I never used the 2160. I have a V2160A and 515H with V software. It probably doesn't matter though. I might suggest changing the HDMI cable to see if it helps. I got all my HDMI cables from Monoprice (the ones with a ferrite core) just to be sure all things are equal. When I got my Yamaha AVR I did a complete do-over with all new cables. Work: yes, costly: no. Just something to consider for a snowy night.

In case anyone wonders about the ferrite core, it smooths out the square waves of a digital signal. That lowers radiation. It could help or hurt depending on the equipment, but it makes the FCC happy.
post #22197 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by videobruce View Post

But, that is market dependent isn't it?
The channel arrangements are similar in most markets.
post #22198 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rammitinski View Post

Personally speaking, I would get the newer model no matter what the price was, because some are saying that the tuner PQ is improved from the older ones (mainly, the black crush issue).

Now, whether that's true or not, I don't know, but that's what I would do, to find out for myself. Don't know if they finally upgraded the outdated ATSC chip that the older ones had, though. If it turned out it was no better, I wouldn't want that, either. Didn't work for me nearly as well as the latest ones do here.

But those things may not matter to you. There may be some remote control differences.

hello 234 -

can you confirm information about the newer tuner being used in the Magnavox 5xx machines ?

i think that we are all wondering if the newer tuner was chosen due to improved reception or sensitivity or other performance improvement...

or was the tuner chosen simply because of newer board layout ?

thanks much in advance....

Ron G
post #22199 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by rkg22 View Post

can you confirm information about the newer tuner being used in the Magnavox 5xx machines ?

ISTR 234 mentioned well upthread that the previous tuner's source could no longer supply them, or words to that effect.
post #22200 of 25403
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

All cable is local.
A good test for "blacks" or "whites" is lapels on a dark or black jacket. If they can not be seen, it's usually a poor picture or poor lighting. Until I used a cheap calibration disk, my 32" Sony didn't display them. I find no problem with my 515H now that the TV is adjusted for the Mag HDMI input. Even a minimal calibration can improve factory defaults.

hi joe...

i've probably mentioned this before, but i believe that the ' dark muddiness ' in these things is more a function of the black level reference calibrations that are used in various receiving devices...

in my case, the following is true...

1 - Mits TV Tuner tuned to CATV ( cox ) - blacks not too great, especially when viewing content converted to an analog channel by the cableco.
2 - Mits TV Tuner tuned to CATV Digital channel feed ( clear QAM ) - blacks much better but not perfect.
3 - Mits TV Tuner tuned to OTA Digital channel feed - blacks very good.
4 - Philips ( older tuner ) tuned to CATV analog feed - blacks horrible.
5 - Philips ( older tuner ) tuned to CATV digital ( clear QAM ) - blacks improved but still pretty lousy.
6 - Philips taking analog line feed from OTA box ( DTVPAL / RCA / Sansonic ) - blacks almost as good as 3, above.
( same quality results with my Panny E-95 line inputs )

this can be a combination of not only the receiving device's black level reference assignment, but can also be a function of what the feeder might be using for reference levels, or just what particular standard might be being used. there are a few of those, and for all we know, the Philips might not be implementing a correct standard for the material sources we are viewing.

this is one thing that might be nice to have in terms of features; a configurable black and white reference adjustment ( stepped between various standards ) in order to obtain the correct ( or close to correct ) reference levels depending on the source being viewed. one could hope that the providers pay attention to this stuff, but it seems that these folks don't have as much interest in this stuff as time goes by. you can see this issue when switching among the various providers, and even among the major OTA networks. i go crazy chasing PQ settings every time i change channels or watch a DVD. this, of course, drives my wife crazy.

the standards were invented so that we folks would not have to do such things constantly. it seems that the ONLY content i find lately that is near perfect is either a major sporting event or some major political speech. the rest is just a crapshoot these days.

there's my nickel for the day... smile.gif

best regards,
Ron G
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