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Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 754

post #22591 of 23780
12/26/12 at 2:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatH View Post

now that I've reread the help files, please note that my problem as stated was that the HIGH option under REC Mode is not highlighted. Since, as stated, the number of megabytes to be dubbed does not exceed the number of megabytes available, the question is why the HIGH option is not available. Until I can answer this, I can't high speed dub multiple titles, no matter how many titles I have in the list.

Upthread you wrote you're using DVD-R. Deleting titles from DVD-R does not free up space. It only makes "deleted" titles unplayable. My Magnavoxes all gray out HIGH when not enough space is available. It seems to me you must be determining available space inconsistently with what your Phillips is doing.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #22592 of 23780
12/26/12 at 2:30pm
What is the best way to set the timers if I would like to record 3 one hour shows back to back to back? Do I set the timers like this?

8:00 PM to 9:00 PM
9:00 PM to 10:00 PM
10:00 PM to 11:00 PM

or do I need to allow a minute or two spacing between them like this...

8:00 PM to 8:59 PM
9:01 PM to 9:59 PM
10:01 PM to 11:00 PM

or is there a better way?

Does it matter if the channel changes or if it is the same channel?

How do you do it?
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post #22593 of 23780
12/26/12 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

What is the best way to set the timers if I would like to record 3 one hour shows back to back to back? Do I set the timers like this?
8:00 PM to 9:00 PM
9:00 PM to 10:00 PM
10:00 PM to 11:00 PM
or do I need to allow a minute or two spacing between them like this...
8:00 PM to 8:59 PM
9:01 PM to 9:59 PM
10:01 PM to 11:00 PM
or is there a better way?
Does it matter if the channel changes or if it is the same channel?
How do you do it?
I usually just do it. Also, check your clock accuracy to see if you need to add a minute to one end or the other. The Mag is pretty smart. It can change channels. You can even watch the video if you wish.
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post #22594 of 23780
12/26/12 at 2:39pm
I found that out, but that has little relevance to my issue, except as a result. What I'm trying to do is high speed dub a number of titles from HDD to a blank, formatted DVD-R. At no time, as I clearly stated, do the number of megabytes of data to be transferred from HDD exceed the number of megabytes available on the DVD-R, as indicated by the Phillips itself. So why does my HIGH option remain greyed out? Until that is answered, I cannot proceed unless I want to high speed dub a single title per disk and if I'm limited to that, what's the point? Clear?

PatH

P. S. I value this board and all the help I've received. So don't assume I'm flaming anyone and don't even begin to assume that I've lost my temper--with anyone but Phillips and, though, I love my Pannys, with Panasonic as a company for refusing to provide quality equipment (which we all know they once did) to the US market. But that's another topic.

PatH
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post #22595 of 23780
12/26/12 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatH View Post

OK, wajo, now that you've castigated me (probably rightly so) for the best way to search the thread, and now that I've reread the help files, please note that my problem as stated was that the HIGH option under REC Mode is not highlighted. Since, as stated, the number of megabytes to be dubbed does not exceed the number of megabytes available, the question is why the HIGH option is not available. Until I can answer this, I can't high speed dub multiple titles, no matter how many titles I have in the list..
PatH

Castigated? How could Wajo's post have been more polite? You must lead a very sheltered life!

But really, the 3576 is, like, 6 or 7 models old - you're just now trying to HSD for the first time? My 3576 has recorded and HSD'ed thousands of titles over 5 years, and unlike your "beloved pannies" hasn't needed any repairs! Maybe you got a bad one, but it seems a bit strange that you're just discovering that now.

Anyway, if you insert an empty DVD, hit "dubbing" or maybe "direct dubbing" (I wore out the original remote), select the titles to dub, if they fit High speed should be the default mode. Wait - you're not confusing "high speed" with "high quality" are you? Dubbing a non-HQ title in HQ mode might account for consuming all the DVD's capacity?

Regards,
CC
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post #22596 of 23780
12/26/12 at 2:43pm
And here I thought it was Philips that pulled out of the high end North American market.
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post #22597 of 23780
12/26/12 at 2:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatH View Post

I found that out, but that has little relevance to my issue, except as a result. What I'm trying to do is high speed dub a number of titles from HDD to a blank, formatted DVD-R. At no time, as I clearly stated, do the number of megabytes of data to be transferred from HDD exceed the number of megabytes available on the DVD-R, as indicated by the Phillips itself. So why does my HIGH option remain greyed out? Until that is answered, I cannot proceed unless I want to high speed dub a single title per disk and if I'm limited to that, what's the point? Clear?

 

Two possible reasons:

 

1. The HIGH option is always "highlighted" differently than the other options, as explained in the help file, and some people have taken that to mean it wasn't "available"... there is no line around the HIGH option.

 

2. If any titles are SLP rec mode and more than 4:59:59 long. they won't HSD, also explained in the help file.

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post #22598 of 23780
12/26/12 at 2:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

What is the best way to set the timers if I would like to record 3 one hour shows back to back to back? Do I set the timers like this?

8:00 PM to 9:00 PM
9:00 PM to 10:00 PM
10:00 PM to 11:00 PM

Does it matter if the channel changes or if it is the same channel?

How do you do it?

Normally with back to backs I try to do it manually instead of using timers. Most of my back to backs are same channel. When I have back to backs on different channels I try to use different recorders for different channels, but that's not always an option. When the channels are those with commercials following actual end of show (e.g. CBS) I start a minute early. Above is how I use timers if shows without trailing commercials (e.g. TNT, USA) are on different channels, except I make the last one an extra minute. An earlier will end enough in advance that the next can start on time, about 7 seconds or less IIRC. If on same channel, I make only one recording and divide it afterward while removing commercials. I set clock manually several seconds fast about once a week. Mine all gain time, though at various rates between less than 5 seconds per week to more than 30 seconds per week.
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post #22599 of 23780
12/26/12 at 2:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by EscapeVelocity View Post

What is the best way to set the timers if I would like to record 3 one hour shows back to back to back? Do I set the timers like this?
8:00 PM to 9:00 PM
9:00 PM to 10:00 PM
10:00 PM to 11:00 PM
or do I need to allow a minute or two spacing between them like this...
8:00 PM to 8:59 PM
9:01 PM to 9:59 PM
10:01 PM to 11:00 PM
or is there a better way?
Does it matter if the channel changes or if it is the same channel?
How do you do it?

Personally, I NEVER split back-to-back recordings on the same channel. Some shows today transition instantly - no clock setting could possibly hit the transition point accurately every time. Even on my old 3576 with the "title divide" issue - it's annoying but recoverable.

The main reason I have 3 recorders is to program with a buffer of 1 or 2 minutes at both ends whenever possible. All 3 of my units have clock drift of 5 to 15 seconds per week. If I need an exact back-to-back with channel change on one of them, I make sure the clock is exactly right on that day - even then the cutover may lose a few seconds...

CC
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post #22600 of 23780
12/26/12 at 3:10pm
Thread Starter 

These units are very capable multi-channel back-to-back recorders, as long as your clock isn't too far off at time of recording.

 

If all on one channel, best to record as one block then Divide if loss of a few seconds is a big concern... some shows can stand to lose "a few seconds, even minutes"!

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post #22601 of 23780
12/26/12 at 3:28pm
Thanks everybody.

I dont think it is that critical, though I do have very accurate time around here.

I might should have picked up ttwo 500 gb units, instead of one 1 tb unit.
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post #22602 of 23780
12/26/12 at 3:32pm
Wajo:

Firstly, I was not angered by your first response to me, as one here has thought. Perhaps if I had put "castigated" in quotes . . . . Anyway, I can't even access the HIGH option unless I'm dealing with a single title. Any list limits me to the next slowest recording speed or AUTO, which produces a real time dub. I always record in EP mode, which gives me the same recording space as on a Panny, i. e., 4:00 hrs. I am not confusing HIGH with HQ, as cc_in_oh speculated above (I'll pass over with patience and love in this Holiday season the veiled criticisms of Panny and the less-veiled criticism of me for not embracing this inferior backup Philips more quickly) and I immediately tried using the direct dub button, which walked me through the same process as using the dubbing menu. Te result is the same--no access to HIGH, even though the titles selected for dubbing total: a) less than 4:00 and; b) less than the available MB, both measurements as reflected on the Philips itself. Now what?

PatH
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post #22603 of 23780
12/26/12 at 3:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeKustra View Post

Maybe it's just me. I go to walmart.com and enter "tivo" as a search, then click GO. It takes me to a list of the Magnavox 53X units. Am I crazy? I tried it due to the number of commercials saying that TiVo is available at Walmart.
I normally use bing or google to site search , If i enter site:www.walmart.com/ TIVO into bing I do find the TIVO series 2 for $64.00 (but this is not current) Hope this helps

PS you are not crazy I get the same results as you once on their site, my guess is the site has not been updated

good to see action picking up here, Once my 533 arrives "brace yourself" wink.gif
Edited by Josea - 12/26/12 at 4:00pm
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post #22604 of 23780
12/26/12 at 4:18pm
I calibrated the HDMI in signal from the Magnavox into the Vizio GV42LF and the PQ is much better. Very nice!
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post #22605 of 23780
12/26/12 at 4:46pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PatH View Post

Wajo:

Firstly, I was not angered by your first response to me, as one here has thought. Perhaps if I had put "castigated" in quotes . . . . Anyway, I can't even access the HIGH option unless I'm dealing with a single title. Any list limits me to the next slowest recording speed or AUTO, which produces a real time dub. I always record in EP mode, which gives me the same recording space as on a Panny, i. e., 4:00 hrs. I am not confusing HIGH with HQ, as cc_in_oh speculated above (I'll pass over with patience and love in this Holiday season the veiled criticisms of Panny and the less-veiled criticism of me for not embracing this inferior backup Philips more quickly) and I immediately tried using the direct dub button, which walked me through the same process as using the dubbing menu. Te result is the same--no access to HIGH, even though the titles selected for dubbing total: a) less than 4:00 and; b) less than the available MB, both measurements as reflected on the Philips itself. Now what?

PatH

 

I can only suggest you abandon the inferior 1st-gen Philips and go back to your favored Panny, with the International DMR-EH59?

 

It's currently available from B&H (and others online).

 

P.S. I do still wonder if any significance to your saying you're trying to high speed dub to a blank formatted DVD-R... no "formatting" involved in DVD-R for the Philips (or Mag)... so I hope that doesn't mean formatted in a PC or some other device?


Edited by wajo - 12/26/12 at 5:00pm
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post #22606 of 23780
12/26/12 at 5:22pm
No, I only used formatted in case somebody thought it wasn't. It's straight off the spindle, though now I'm trying a single title dub with the make disk compatible (not autofinalize). After my Pannys return from MICKINCT, I'll look into the Panny EH-69 once I absorb the well deserved repair costs for two Pannys, but I'm sure I'll have cabling and external NTSC tuner questions when I do. Thanks! PatH
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post #22607 of 23780
12/26/12 at 5:46pm
One thing I don't miss about any of my Pannies ...

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I'd get maybe a year or two of good use out of one and from then on it was a crapshoot whether it would work without having to pull the plug and do a cold boot. Even then, cross your fingers. Last one was rebuilt by Panny service a couple times with ... less than spectacular results. Only reason I stuck with them was I was under the impression they were the only game in town. So far, the Maggie has been a pleasant surprise - maybe because I've yet to use the DVR side of it except for the obilgatory test when I first got it.

Not to diss Panny - probably just my bad luck - but now that I'm ripping all the old Panny disks to MKV format on a hard drive, I'm finding quite a few unreadable. I used Ritek Silver exclusively, and those were highly recommended. Both by the conversion software AND the Panny DVR-EZ28 which I've hooked back up to process the ones I forgot to finalize.

One other thing I won't miss ... I've been cutting DVD-Rs for maybe 10 years now and of course a lot haven't really seen the light of day in several moons. Amazing how dirty those things get stored vertically in a jewel box ... whooda thunk? Then again, you don't lose 400 movies if a disk bites the dust - with a 1tb HDD, that could be an issue. Here's hoping my backup plan works. biggrin.gif
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post #22608 of 23780
12/27/12 at 3:58am
Today's "Value of the Day" on walmart.com is the 533H. Special sale price is $208.00 so don't miss the deal. [joke]
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post #22609 of 23780
12/27/12 at 6:44am
Thread Starter 

biggrin.gif

 

Food for Thought: Major PQ Difference with LED HDTV!

 

After 3 Vizio LCD HDTVs, got my first 47" Vizio LED HDTV, and what a difference it makes with these recorders!

 

With my LCDs, the PQ is great at a distance but can't get too close or I see the edge "softness." Took some normal tweaking for my PhilMags.

 

With my Mags on the new LED, using  HDMI, YCbCr Format, and "Standard" Picture Mode (no tweaking), I can put my eyeballs on the screen and it's SHARP as a tack (digital HD program on digital channel in my analog cable feed)! YCbCr vs RGB setting doesn't seem to make a big diff. with a Component RGB connection from my lone 3575 on this HDTV. I used a shopping channel to check PQ diff. with the HDMI Formats (static content, studio lighting, text on screen at all times).

 

Audio a little "wimpy" requiring ~33-36 setting out of 100 for ME to hear some recorded shows clearly, but adding my AVR audio with speaker next to my chair is GREAT at "wife-level" setting!

 

My model is a M470VSE, which is their "Razor" Smart HDTV with internet apps and slim frame. Weight is WAY less than their older LCDs, power use is also WAY less (52W op., <1W standby), and heat is hardly noticeable (my 47" LCD makes a great heater).

 

YMMV.

 

biggrin.gif


Edited by wajo - 12/27/12 at 7:38am
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post #22610 of 23780
12/27/12 at 7:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

biggrin.gif

My model is a M470VSE, which is their "Razor" Smart HDTV with internet apps and slim frame. Weight is WAY less than their older LCDs, power use is also WAY less (52W op., <1W standby), and heat is hardly noticeable (my 47 " LCD makes a great heater).

YMMV.

biggrin.gif

When I went from ccfl to LED I noticed the heat drop right away. Power use helps the UPS too. I'm glad you like the TV. I would buy another Sony like my EX700 if it wasn't discontinued. They are never on eBay either.
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post #22611 of 23780
12/27/12 at 8:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

power use is also WAY less (52W op., <1W standby), and heat is hardly noticeable

I'd love to be able to make such a change, but purposeful TV shopping for me is a major pain. Without PIP/POP a TV to me is all but useless except as a very temporary spare or in a bedroom. The few TVs that have it are very hard to find, and for my limited space making 32" the biggest that can fit, even harder. The one I have now I only stumbled onto by accident in a Sam's Club aisle display where its remote's PIP control buttons could be seen.
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post #22612 of 23780
12/27/12 at 10:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

biggrin.gif

After 3 Vizio LCD HDTVs, got my first 47" Vizio LED HDTV, and what a difference it makes with these recorders!

Audio a little "wimpy" requiring ~33-36 setting out of 100 for ME to hear some recorded shows clearly, but adding my AVR audio with speaker next to my chair is GREAT at "wife-level" setting!

My model is a M470VSE, which is their "Razor" Smart HDTV with internet apps and slim frame. Weight is WAY less than their older LCDs, power use is also WAY less (52W op., <1W standby), and heat is hardly noticeable (my 47" LCD makes a great heater).

Well ... technically, it's a 42" screen - I see they're having fun with "diagonal" vs "true" screen dimensions again. A round of applause for marketeers everywhere!! They all deserve the clap!

clap

Not a diss ... my Sony EX710 is a 42" too. Perfect size for my room, no matter how it's measured. I personally got hit a couple times on the forums for "settling" for an LED instead of going with a REAL PLASMA screen, but ... pshaw ... that's like the tube vs transistor thing. Although, truth be told, main reason I got the Sony is it was a heavily discounted replacement for a 3LCD that had gone bad. $300 for a 47 ... er ... 42" (or 40x22 HD) screen taint bad! And, more importantly - anyone who's seen it (including me) likes it.

Score another one for the marketeers though ...

clap

I see Visio is calling their edge-lit screens "Razor LED" ... I expect in response to some bad reviews about "flashlighting" and hot spots in edge lit screens. I read thru all that too (right here on AVS) and there were a number of people who had to go the service or replacement route to "fix" the "problem". I never lost any sleep over it - only time I see any evidence of that is in super dark scenes, and it's momentary. It's just something you get used to. Some careful tweaking of levels and backlighting have (almost) eliminated it entirely. You probably haven't even noticed it ... until now anyway. Yes ... I am pure evil ... wink.gif

Happy viewing! biggrin.gif

And ya ... I may be talkin' out my a$$ on the edge lighting issues ... a year is a LONG time in technology development, and that's fairly recent stuff.

That said, the very bestest screen I ever did see was the Sony 3LCD that went south with the dreaded fried optical block issue. Anything else for me is a compromise. Unfortunately, that seems to have killed 3LCD development entirely.

Oh, yeah ... Audio sucks on most any flat screen. Can't expect much out of a 2x6 speaker, so that's to be expected. Explains the big market for outboard AV receivers. I still use the tv speakers for background if doing something else waiting for a show to start or early mornings when I don't need the thing shouting at me ...
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post #22613 of 23780
12/27/12 at 10:53am
SUBJECT: A LED HDTV is Really a LCD HDTV with a LED Backlight...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

...After 3 Vizio LCD HDTVs, got my first 47" Vizio LED HDTV, and what a difference it makes with these recorders!

With my LCDs, the PQ is great at a distance but can't get too close or I see the edge "softness." Took some normal tweaking for my PhilMags...
For everyone's information, a:
.
  • LCD HDTV has a LCD screen with a CCFL or EEFL (fluorescent) backlight.
    .
  • LED HDTV has a LCD screen with a LED (light emitting diode) backlight.
.
AFAIK (I discontinued my research after purchasing my 37" Panasonic LCD HDTV in DEC 2011), *ONLY* the best of the First Tier LED HDTVs have full LED backlighting (I can't remember the proper term - you can GOOGLE it or visit the AVS LCD HDTV forum if you want to learn more wink.gif ). This allows the set to specifically turn off blocks of LEDs to improve the Black Level in dark areas of the screen rather than just 'attempt' to control it with the LCD pixels alone. The majority of the LED HDTVs are 'Edge-Lit' - the examples I saw in 'drawn figures' (i.e. not actual pictures), had LEDs only at the sides of the screen, with fiber optic light tubes re-directing the emitted light to behind the LCD.

The difference in quality (between fluorescent LCD and edge-lit LED LCD) would be more due to the improvement in the LCD screen technology than the type of backlight used.
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post #22614 of 23780
12/27/12 at 7:07pm
Dear my friends,

It is 2012 last business day in Japan.
January "New Year day", May "Golden Week" and August "Bon" are very important holiday for Japanese business man.
.
I could not achieve good job for US customer in 2012 but I wish I can do something in 2013.

Today, I heard disappoint news.
US navy clue trial non-sense claim to US court.
They claim 1 billion dollars to Japanese electric power company in spite of no health disease.

No Fukushima people got any health problem.

When US army came to Japan to rescue us, I appreciated very much of your treat.
Now, some paper says "Tomodachi comes to beg money."

I am so disappointed.

I wish your happy new year.

234
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post #22615 of 23780
12/27/12 at 8:00pm
Happy New Year, 234.
I'm very sorry for your disappointment.
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post #22616 of 23780
12/27/12 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

These units are very capable multi-channel back-to-back recorders, as long as your clock isn't too far off at time of recording.

If all on one channel, best to record as one block then Divide if loss of a few seconds is a big concern... some shows can stand to lose "a few seconds, even minutes"!

Yes! Thanks to you and others on the forum, I have learned to delete scenes and split recordings in half. In fact, I have been deleting and chopping shows up quite a bit! Sometimes I record a marathon and separate out the “keepers”. I also shave the non-movie parts from the beginning and end of movie recordings. And, what’s really neat is to do large “scene deletes” in order to temporarily save a special portion in the middle of a news show, or a funny scene from late night talk. Doing this sure saves room on the HDD. Thank you so much for all your help, and best wishes to everyone for a happy and healthy new year.
smile.gif
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post #22617 of 23780
12/27/12 at 11:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by 234 View Post

Dear my friends,

I wish your happy new year.
234


I wish you all the best for the new year.

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post #22618 of 23780
12/28/12 at 12:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by 234 View Post

........Today, I heard disappoint news.
US navy clue trial non-sense claim to US court.
They claim 1 billion dollars to Japanese electric power company in spite of no health disease......
234, just to clarify:
  • The claim was not made by the U.S. Navy.
  • The claim was filed by 8 individual sailors who served aboard the USS Ronald Reagan during the Fukushima disaster.
  • The claim is not for 1 Billion dollars but rather each individual sailor is asking for $10 million in compensatory damages and $30m in punitive damages. (They also want TEPCO to establish a $100 million fund to pay for any future related medical expenses.)
  • About half of the 8 sailors are no longer serving in the US Navy.

My best to you and your family for a happy, healthy and prosperous New Year.

Stapler 1234
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post #22619 of 23780
12/28/12 at 4:43am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOSTRADIMWIT View Post

One thing I don't miss about any of my Pannies ...
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I'd get maybe a year or two of good use out of one and from then on it was a crapshoot whether it would work without having to pull the plug and do a cold boot. Even then, cross your fingers. Last one was rebuilt by Panny service a couple times with ... less than spectacular results. Only reason I stuck with them was I was under the impression they were the only game in town. So far, the Maggie has been a pleasant surprise - maybe because I've yet to use the DVR side of it except for the obilgatory test when I first got it.
Not to diss Panny - probably just my bad luck - but now that I'm ripping all the old Panny disks to MKV format on a hard drive, I'm finding quite a few unreadable. I used Ritek Silver exclusively, and those were highly recommended. Both by the conversion software AND the Panny DVR-EZ28 which I've hooked back up to process the ones I forgot to finalize.
One other thing I won't miss ... I've been cutting DVD-Rs for maybe 10 years now and of course a lot haven't really seen the light of day in several moons. Amazing how dirty those things get stored vertically in a jewel box ... whooda thunk? Then again, you don't lose 400 movies if a disk bites the dust - with a 1tb HDD, that could be an issue. Here's hoping my backup plan works. biggrin.gif

I got about three years out of a panny eh85, then weak caps got it. I replaced those myself, and it worked for a while, then crapped out again. I still have a working ez27. I like the fact it does DL recording, but I pulled it from the rack and put in a maggie. Please maggie, get a player with dual layer recording. For those three hour + movies, I'd prefer a dual layer copy.
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post #22620 of 23780
12/28/12 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

biggrin.gif

Food for Thought: Major PQ Difference with LED HDTV!

After 3 Vizio LCD HDTVs, got my first 47" Vizio LED HDTV, and what a difference it makes with these recorders!

With my LCDs, the PQ is great at a distance but can't get too close or I see the edge "softness." Took some normal tweaking for my PhilMags.

With my Mags on the new LED, using  HDMI, YCbCr Format, and "Standard" Picture Mode (no tweaking), I can put my eyeballs on the screen and it's SHARP as a tack (digital HD program on digital channel in my analog cable feed)! YCbCr vs RGB setting doesn't seem to make a big diff. with a Component RGB connection from my lone 3575 on this HDTV. I used a shopping channel to check PQ diff. with the HDMI Formats (static content, studio lighting, text on screen at all times).

Audio a little "wimpy" requiring ~33-36 setting out of 100 for ME to hear some recorded shows clearly, but adding my AVR audio with speaker next to my chair is GREAT at "wife-level" setting!

My model is a M470VSE, which is their "Razor" Smart HDTV with internet apps and slim frame. Weight is WAY less than their older LCDs, power use is also WAY less (52W op., <1W standby), and heat is hardly noticeable (my 47" LCD makes a great heater).

YMMV.

biggrin.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrmazda View Post

I'd love to be able to make such a change, but purposeful TV shopping for me is a major pain. Without PIP/POP a TV to me is all but useless except as a very temporary spare or in a bedroom. The few TVs that have it are very hard to find, and for my limited space making 32" the biggest that can fit, even harder. The one I have now I only stumbled onto by accident in a Sam's Club aisle display where its remote's PIP control buttons could be seen.

I'm afraid I have to agree. I use pip/pop A LOT (just ask my wife who thinks I didn't purchase a 55 in television, but two smaller ones!). I would really have to rethink a lot of my watching/recording if I didn't have those functions. My television was maybe the last with 5 HDMI 2 Component and 2 video/S-Video inputs. It's unlikely I will see such a wonderful device again. frown.gif
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

AVS › AVS Forum › Video Components › DVD Recorders (Standard Def) › Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575