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Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 815

post #24421 of 25446
I can't find the post where another Magnavox user had problems with their unit recording the wrong channel, but mine did the same. I set a recording for DTV 12.1 after analog 4. Got up the next day and it had recorded 20.1 instead. Magnavox 537, recurring Sunday title spanning Midnight. Got an error that title was over 12 hours. Fixed mistake on end time. Unit had to switch from analog to digital. Where did it go wrong?
post #24422 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirayge View Post

I can't find the post where another Magnavox user had problems with their unit recording the wrong channel, but mine did the same. I set a recording for DTV 12.1 after analog 4. Got up the next day and it had recorded 20.1 instead. Magnavox 537, recurring Sunday title spanning Midnight. Got an error that title was over 12 hours. Fixed mistake on end time. Unit had to switch from analog to digital. Where did it go wrong?

 

Not sure about the 12.1 vs 20.1 but the Mags won't let you set a recording for more than 11:59:59 hours. It'll refuse to program giving you the "over 12 hours" message. Usually happens when you're going from like 11:00pm to 1:00am (or similar) where you forget to change the pm on the 2nd number to am,,, or vice versa.

 

So, I assume you caught that and changed it before going to bed?

 

If so, a few people have had their units not change channels on back-to-back timers. Your's sounds more like a duplicate channel??? See what 12.1 and 20.1 have in common in your area using the resources in the "Map Your Own" procedure described here?

post #24423 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtanoira View Post

I have a MDR515H which it has been working fine for a few years. Now trying to watch some dtv channels it displays a "scramble program" message. What I don't understand is:
a) why was it working fine before and now i am getting those errors?
b) if the channels is scrambled how come I can watch it fine on my tv? I don't have any cableboxes at home

Any help on figuring out how to get rid of the "scramble program" errors would be appreciated
I mentioned in a past post that I was seeing this same thing, and it turned out to be the signal was apparently too weak. For some reason, if the input is too low, they think the signal is scrambled. Now I guess it's possible that the signal could be too high, and the "adjustments" I made to the amp actually decreased the level, however, I don't see why a line or cable-co would increase the level. Just try an amp like the Holland that's adjustable, they're good to have around. I paid only $13 for mine (a literal steal), so they are going to be more than that now.
post #24424 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by profhat View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

EDIT: FOUND PROBLEM. I mentioned below "If I cut power to the amp, the issue gets worse. So it's not the amp.". I don't understand this. After realizing I didn't even need the A/B switch, and removing it, then when I cut power to the amp this issue got better! But I have to have the amp or the STB will act up as I described below. Will be working on this, maybe a different amp.

Guys, I'm noticing an "interference" pattern when using the tuner of my 2160A. frown.gif It's kind of a herringbone pattern, but double, sort of like a diamond plate cross-hatch pattern. And it moves. The lines are diagonal.

EDIT: This is the best I could do, I had to rotate this image to simulate the angle.



As you said is a very common herringbone pattern with the 2160A tuner, it happens when the input cable signal is too strong. That was "fixed" in the 51X models. I don't know about the 53X. I'm glad you had the Holland amp... I had some post about this.
Too strong?? (Most of the info I read on similar patterns said they were "interference"). What about this: "However, the fact that the STB didn't work properly without the amp (and after the intro of splitter and A/B switch), would logically point to its issue being not enough gain." Too strong does make sense due to the fact that the first amp I tried was not adjustable, and it too was a +15db amp, and when I tried the Holland I got the exact same thing until I adjusted it. But that is not indicated by the behavior of the STB.

BTW, you somehow quoted the wrong image in your quote, so I fixed it above in your quote.

I'm just glad it's all cleared-up now. wink.gif
post #24425 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirayge View Post

Clint S., are you using a special splitter for your amplifier? You should use one with DC pass through on one leg to avoid backfeeding voltage to the other side. Voltage or a ground loop could cause that pattern.
Interesting. I tried two; a Holland GHS-2, and a TruSpec TSB-21G. When I was looking at new splitters (needed new ones because all the ones I had around here were old), I saw "DC pass-thru" and similar mentioned, but I didn't think that was any issue because the coax line is not being used as the power supply for the amp(s). The amps are using their AC/DC adapters and are not remotely powered by a power injector. As I understood it, I thought DC pass-thru only applied to coax power-injector-use amps.

I can't find this info on the Holland in its PDF's, but the TruSpec (the one I'm using now) says: "TSB-x1G-series features *capacitor coupling circuitry* at all ports for effective DC voltage blocking".

But for the x1GDC series: "TSB-1GDC-series provide DC power passage to one port while blocking DC power to all other ports provides for remote powering applications and powering the antenna preamplifier directly from the headend".

Note what I bolded ^ . So was my assumption correct? Since they are not being remotely powered.

*I do see in the Holland PDF "Capacitor Decoupled", so since it's like that and the TruSpec is "capacitor coupled", without the "de", the opposite(?), then the Holland must have a DC pass-thru. ??

Apparently in my app it doesn't make any difference because both splitters behaved in the exact same manner--which I guess you could attribute to the amps not being remotely powered. ?
--
Edited by Clint S. - 9/18/13 at 5:21am
post #24426 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

I mentioned in a past post that I was seeing this same thing, and it turned out to be the signal was apparently too weak. For some reason, if the input is too low, they think the signal is scrambled. Now I guess it's possible that the signal could be too high, and the "adjustments" I made to the amp actually decreased the level, however, I don't see why a line or cable-co would increase the level. Just try an amp like the Holland that's adjustable, they're good to have around. I paid only $13 for mine (a literal steal), so they are going to be more than that now.

Thanks Clint S.!
I only get that error in a handfull of channels . Is it possible for a cable company to have different signal levels per channels? If not why would some channels work fine and others get the 'scramble signal" message?
post #24427 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Not sure about the 12.1 vs 20.1 but the Mags won't let you set a recording for more than 11:59:59 hours. It'll refuse to program giving you the "over 12 hours" message. Usually happens when you're going from like 11:00pm to 1:00am (or similar) where you forget to change the pm on the 2nd number to am,,, or vice versa.

So, I assume you caught that and changed it before going to bed?

If so, a few people have had their units not change channels on back-to-back timers. Your's sounds more like a duplicate channel??? See what 12.1 and 20.1 have in common in your area using the resources in the "Map Your Own" procedure described here?
Yep, caught it because of the warning. These are OTA channels from my antenna feed. 12.1 is PBS and 20.1 is ABC. I need to do more testing to see if it repeats when going from analog (rf from cable box) to OTA. If so, I may test a small recording just to set the tuner to digital channels and then the main recording. It may just need time to get the channels mapped right.
post #24428 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtanoira View Post

Is it possible for a cable company to have different signal levels per channels?

Yes.
post #24429 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirayge View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Not sure about the 12.1 vs 20.1 but the Mags won't let you set a recording for more than 11:59:59 hours. It'll refuse to program giving you the "over 12 hours" message. Usually happens when you're going from like 11:00pm to 1:00am (or similar) where you forget to change the pm on the 2nd number to am,,, or vice versa.

So, I assume you caught that and changed it before going to bed?

If so, a few people have had their units not change channels on back-to-back timers. Your's sounds more like a duplicate channel??? See what 12.1 and 20.1 have in common in your area using the resources in the "Map Your Own" procedure described here?
Yep, caught it because of the warning. These are OTA channels from my antenna feed. 12.1 is PBS and 20.1 is ABC. I need to do more testing to see if it repeats when going from analog (rf from cable box) to OTA. If so, I may test a small recording just to set the tuner to digital channels and then the main recording. It may just need time to get the channels mapped right.

 

I should have asked you to check analog 4 vs the two digital channels involved... that's where the interference could be coming from.

 

But then, more importantly, I missed where you said you were getting analog 4 via RF (coax?) thru a cable box. How are you connected to the box? If by coax, did you set your timer program to record analog channel 3 (for the modulated output of the box) and the box to display analog 4? But then, how are you getting the antenna feed? I could understand if you got your cable analog 4 via a line input and your digital antenna channels via coax. Is a splitter involved? Did you do an Auto Channel Preset... for which, Antenna or Cable (Analog/Digital)?

 

Lots of questions... seems like a description of your dual-source connections and timer settings would be good here?


Edited by wajo - 9/18/13 at 3:50pm
post #24430 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtanoira View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

I mentioned in a past post that I was seeing this same thing, and it turned out to be the signal was apparently too weak. For some reason, if the input is too low, they think the signal is scrambled. Now I guess it's possible that the signal could be too high, and the "adjustments" I made to the amp actually decreased the level, however, I don't see why a line or cable-co would increase the level. Just try an amp like the Holland that's adjustable, they're good to have around. I paid only $13 for mine (a literal steal), so they are going to be more than that now.

Thanks Clint S.!
I only get that error in a handful of channels . Is it possible for a cable company to have different signal levels per channels? If not why would some channels work fine and others get the 'scramble signal" message?
I see another member said yes to that. If it were OTA, then I would definitely say "yes". But since it's cable.......apparently the answer is still "yes". But after thinking about it, I would have thought that cable co's would somehow (for lack of a better term and better description), "normalize" the signals since the signals are coming from the cable co and not directly from the station. I would have thought that maybe the stations' "output characteristics" would be more "even" on cable. But I have little experience with cable DTV so while that could possibly be the case with analog, it's obviously not the case with DTV because it is what it is. (Just thinking out loud. wink.gif )

What you may want to try is if you have a portable TV, move it out back with the Mag and hook them directly up to the incoming cable feed and see if something changes. That way you'll bypass splitters and cable lines. But if you don't have any splitters in use and just one cable line, then it's probably pointless.

I'd get at least one of those amps because like I said they're good to have on-hand. You're lucky MCM still has them: http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/HOLLAND-ELECTRONICS-HCDA-1FRA-AG-/30-2400 . You can get several $ off of that (currently) $20 price if it's in their flyers. Search them for 30-2400 and see if they're in one of them. Unfortunately they had a $5 shipping promo that just ended.
post #24431 of 25446
@gtanoira - Different strength signals on different channels is as undesirable for Cable Cos as it is for us. Check out what kind of image you get on different channels via a cable box. If you find higher ones or lower ones with a noisy signal or a a few specific ones that break up often enough you can point out, get a service call.

This is one of the things services techs test for and fix. You just need to be able to complain about it in a non-QAM way.
post #24432 of 25446
Came home today and turned on the 515 to set up a recording for tonight....panic set in, as no digital channels would appear, only a few analog.

Did a channel rescan and now all is well....have Time Warner....guess they moved some stuff around or something....glad rescan fixed it.
post #24433 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSUL View Post

Came home today and turned on the 515 to set up a recording for tonight....panic set in, as no digital channels would appear, only a few analog.

Did a channel rescan and now all is well....have Time Warner....guess they moved some stuff around or something....glad rescan fixed it.

 

Might not apply to a 515, but the older units (357x) would sometimes lose track of the digital channels and a simple switch to the analog tuner and back to digital would miraculously make the digitals OK again. I guess that would be worth a try when someone with any unit appears to lose ALL digital channels?

post #24434 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

I should have asked you to check analog 4 vs the two digital channels involved... that's where the interference could be coming from.

But then, more importantly, I missed where you said you were getting analog 4 via RF (coax?) thru a cable box. How are you connected to the box? If by coax, did you set your timer program to record analog channel 3 (for the modulated output of the box) and the box to display analog 4? But then, how are you getting the antenna feed? I could understand if you got your cable analog 4 via a line input and your digital antenna channels via coax. Is a splitter involved? Did you do an Auto Channel Preset... for which, Antenna or Cable (Analog/Digital)?

Lots of questions... seems like a description of your dual-source connections and timer settings would be good here?
I'm back. Been busy working and testing the 537's timer record feature. Yes, I have my antenna feed and small cable box (digital adapter) hooked up to a backward splitter. Not really recommended as you could feed signal across both systems, but my cable box seems to isolate the downstream side and my antenna preamp keeps the cable from being broadcast to the neighborhood. We used to have a real analog 3 so out of habit I set all the rf outputs on devices to channel 4. So the tuner sees all digital over the air channels and a virtual analog 4, which is set to AMC most of the time. That way we never miss Hell on Wheels or Breaking Bad.
Now where the problem started is I went to dayshift, so Sunday night I decided to record Jubilee (blue grass music) and another show on PBS 12.1 through midnight. Well, it recorded ABC 20.1 instead. I tried to recreate what I did and have now confirmed it.
Tested as follows to force error. Set tuner to 20.1 and entered the timer record menu from the main menu, not the remote button. Set a daytime recording for a few minutes and changed the channel to be recorded from 20.1 to 12.1. I then exited the menus and set the tuner to analog 4, powered down and waited. The recording worked perfectly. I then deleted that timer and set up a similar one with a weekly recurring day and from 11:45PM to 12:15AM and went to sleep. Can you guess what was recorded when I got up? 20.1 again, so there is a way to make this happen. It seems to span midnight, so possibly noon too when the recorder searches for a time signal. But the timer is set way before that even comes into play.
More testing is required. I'll see if Wajo's method of initiating a timer setup from the channel you actually want, such as 12.1 works. That way there is no fiddling with the channel number. Then I will start out on a random digital, switch to analog 4, and see if it records the random station instead.
post #24435 of 25446
Could anyone please tell me why the (front or rear) S-video input on the Mag wouldn't work with the S-video out from an STB? The composite works fine (rear, L1), but I tried a new S-video cable and hooked it to both L1 and L2 and I get nothing! eek.gif

Thanks.
post #24436 of 25446
Did you try it in another recorder, vcr, player? Cable co may have disabled it for some reason.
post #24437 of 25446
Code:
Quote:
Originally Posted by MediaFan63 View Post

Did you try it in another recorder, vcr, player?
Not yet, I won't be able to until my Mom is awake and I check there because all of my other devices use HDMI, component, or composite.
Quote:
Cable co may have disabled it for some reason.
Well that's what I'm (horrifyingly) wondering. Why would they do such a hideous evil thing? Aren't some of you using S-video-out from STB's?

Isn't the rear S-video "L1"? That's what the manual says, I just first need to know I'm not doing anything wrong.
post #24438 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Could anyone please tell me why the (front or rear) S-video input on the Mag wouldn't work with the S-video out from an STB? The composite works fine (rear, L1), but I tried a new S-video cable and hooked it to both L1 and L2 and I get nothing! eek.gif

Thanks.
You need to go in the menu and select which cable type you want to use for each input.
post #24439 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Could anyone please tell me why the (front or rear) S-video input on the Mag wouldn't work with the S-video out from an STB? The composite works fine (rear, L1), but I tried a new S-video cable and hooked it to both L1 and L2 and I get nothing! eek.gif

Thanks.

I used the S-Video input when I copied the material from my Sony DHG's . . .
Maybe the output on your cable box is disabled like MediaFan said?
post #24440 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Could anyone please tell me why the (front or rear) S-video input on the Mag wouldn't work with the S-video out from an STB? The composite works fine (rear, L1), but I tried a new S-video cable and hooked it to both L1 and L2 and I get nothing! eek.gif

I used the S-Video input when I copied the material from my Sony DHG's . . .
Maybe the output on your cable box is disabled like MediaFan said?

 

For S-Video input, you must change the Video > Video Input option to "S-Video in."

 

The default is "Video in" which is for composite Yellow RCA.


Edited by wajo - 9/24/13 at 9:56am
post #24441 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by WS65711 View Post

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Could anyone please tell me why the (front or rear) S-video input on the Mag wouldn't work with the S-video out from an STB? The composite works fine (rear, L1), but I tried a new S-video cable and hooked it to both L1 and L2 and I get nothing! eek.gif


I used the S-Video input when I copied the material from my Sony DHG's . . .

Maybe the output on your cable box is disabled like MediaFan said?

For S-Video input, you must change the Video > Video Input option to "S-Video in."

The default is "Video in" which is for composite Yellow RCA.
Hey thanks a bunch!
post #24442 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken.F View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post

Could anyone please tell me why the (front or rear) S-video input on the Mag wouldn't work with the S-video out from an STB? The composite works fine (rear, L1), but I tried a new S-video cable and hooked it to both L1 and L2 and I get nothing! eek.gif

Thanks.
You need to go in the menu and select which cable type you want to use for each input.
Thanks to you as well. wink.gif
post #24443 of 25446
Found something possibly related to the "sticky channel" problem, and this is rather strange:
A couple times since I bought the 537 I've gone to change channels using the number pad and the channel number changes, but the channel itself does not. It's only happened two or three times, but then the sticky channels during programmed recording is inconsistent as well. The way to change channels when this happens is to use the regular channel +/- button. That seems to reset it and I can use the number pad again. Veddy interestink.
post #24444 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Becolt View Post

Found something possibly related to the "sticky channel" problem, and this is rather strange:
A couple times since I bought the 537 I've gone to change channels using the number pad and the channel number changes, but the channel itself does not. It's only happened two or three times, but then the sticky channels during programmed recording is inconsistent as well. The way to change channels when this happens is to use the regular channel +/- button. That seems to reset it and I can use the number pad again. Veddy interestink.

 

Thanks for the info, but we still have to figure out why a timer program sometimes sticks on one channel occasionally for a handful of users... and even better, if there's anything those users can do about it. A strange problem indeed.

post #24445 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Thanks for the info, but we still have to figure out why a timer program sometimes sticks on one channel occasionally for a handful of users... and even better, if there's anything those users can do about it. A strange problem indeed.
I'm thinking that - for lack of a better way to express it - the signal to change channels via the number pad and the one used to change during timed recording follows the same signal path, where the channel up/down button must use a different path or only a section of the circuit. Of course this may be a software operation as well, in which case there's likely a different chunk of code that governs each, but either way it may be something that aids (is it magnavox or that company funai I saw mentioned?) in the debugging of the operation. Has anyone contacted them about anything?
post #24446 of 25446
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Becolt View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Thanks for the info, but we still have to figure out why a timer program sometimes sticks on one channel occasionally for a handful of users... and even better, if there's anything those users can do about it. A strange problem indeed.
I'm thinking that - for lack of a better way to express it - the signal to change channels via the number pad and the one used to change during timed recording follows the same signal path, where the channel up/down button must use a different path or only a section of the circuit. Of course this may be a software operation as well, in which case there's likely a different chunk of code that governs each, but either way it may be something that aids (is it magnavox or that company funai I saw mentioned?) in the debugging of the operation. Has anyone contacted them about anything?

 

Yes, I've contacted Funai but no action anticipated... it's not a widespread "testable" problem, and they're on to bigger and better things.

 

Magnavox is a tradename owned by Philips and licensed to Funai.

post #24447 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo View Post

Yes, I've contacted Funai but no action anticipated... it's not a widespread "testable" problem, and they're on to bigger and better things.

Magnavox is a tradename owned by Philips and licensed to Funai.
Ah, that's too bad. Well maybe it will be fixed in the next generation.
Oh that's right, I tend to confuse Philips into the GE/Emerson pairing.
post #24448 of 25446
Wajo, et al,

I have experienced this, but only when watching TV through the 537 and a timer recording process starts. It will hold the channel I set with the remote before the recording starts.

I noticed this, and changed the channel to the one to be recorded, and the 537 shut off at the designated time.
post #24449 of 25446
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clint S. View Post


Well that's what I'm (horrifyingly) wondering. Why would they do such a hideous evil thing? Aren't some of you using S-video-out from STB's?

Cablecos do that because they can. frown.gif
post #24450 of 25446
I can't use s-video on our new Cisco4742hdc, it doesn't have one. I can use component and composite though. I really only use s-video for dubs.
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