Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 157

In short, it's easier and more aesthetically pleasing. Most houses and apartments these days are pre-wired for cable, so in most people's minds, it just takes the flip of a switch to enable it, so it involves less hassle and is less unsightly than having a satellite dish installed. There is also the belief that satellite dishes are more prone to bad reception due to weather.


Most people aren't that technical and wouldn't know the difference between digital and analog. Think about the millions of people who are perfectly happy with their analog TV's and see no reason to upgrade to HDTV.

My question really doesn't ask about OTA users, only cable. God bless the OTA only users, But the additional programming is a part of my entertainment.(which I pay throught the nose for) For one there is no HD analog and maybe your right some wouldn't have a clue.
FYI: My dish is on a 5' pole in a fenced backyard

FYI: What's the cost approximately of full blown HD DVR (4 rooms) cable per month.

I just had a conversation with a local (Portland Oregon area) Comcast tech. He said that all their digital channels, including those above channel 31, will be encoded and require a Comcast adapter (DTA) or digital or HD cable box after June 10, 2009. When questioned about continued use of our QAM tuner-equipped devices he said that QAM tuners will not tune the encoded digital channels. He said dual tuner devices (analog/QAM) will continue to tune channels 2-31, the "must carry" analog channels--and only those.

That means that an analog tuner will continue to be of some limited use, but the QAM tuner in the Philips 3575/3576 and Magnavox 2080/2160 will no longer be able to receive Comcast's digital programming as an actual digital signal from the Comcast coax cable. Since the Philips/Magnavox has no method to record digital signals at that quality level apart from its built-in QAM tuner, Comcast provided digital programming will have to be recorded from devices converting digital programming down to an analog format. This is a Comcast service "downgrade" to my way of thinking.

Check the date; this came out FIVE years ago:

http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2004_06/pr0901.htm

Who said anything about OTA? I was speaking based on my 30 years experience with cable. It never made sense to me to switch to satellite because it's not cheaper despite what their commercials say, and it involved installing a satellite dish which I've heard a lot of complaints about.

We recently bought one of these devices based on the info here. The thing that's bugging me though is that regularly when we turn it on it starts up at the setup menu, needing to go through and set up all the channels, etc. We have NOT had any power outages and no other electronic devices has lost its info.

any thoughts?

Source is antenna.

I can't recall right now if it's first on coax or not. Set up is complicated with a digital tuner used for the TV for normal viewing which obviously isn't needed for this DVR.

As a result of my query, the FCC sent me a PDF titled "FCC Consumer Advisory" concerning the digital transition. Here is a relevant excerpt for us DVDR users (emphasis mine):

"As long as your cable company offers ANY analog service, it must provide you with your local broadcast stations so you can watch them WITHOUT a cable set-top box."

DigaDo wrote:

> I just had a conversation with a local (Portland Oregon
> area) Comcast tech. He said that all their digital
> channels, including those above channel 31, will be
> encoded and require a Comcast adapter (DTA) or digital
> or HD cable box after June 10, 2009.

What makes me suspicious of the above statement is that it coincides with the OTA switch to digital. Comcast has publicly stated that the transition it is rolling out has NOTHING to do with OTA. It would be impolitic to couple anything to June 12. There are various dates around the country for implementation, and so far nothing >30 has been scrambled.

Here is the best understanding I have been able to figure out, and it confirms everything but the date of transition.

- Analog will be 1-30 only
- >30 will be digital
- The >30 channels currently being broadcast in QAM are analog re-transmitted as digital on randomly assigned digital sub-channels
- The DTA STB provided by Comcast uses a new protocol that no integrated IR Blasters can transmit, so no DVD/HDD recorders can control the DTA
- The DTA output is Ch3, so say goodbye to PQ
- Comcast has every intent of scrambling the >30 digital channels
- There are lawsuits and something going on at the FCC over whether Comcast has the right to do this
- The DTA has been designed with encryption capability so if Comcast does proceed (and it has nothing to do with the OTA drop dead date) then say goodbye to all the digital channels >30

It has been noted in other forums that Comcast's Basic Cable customers with Internet can access the Expanded Cable channels. If the method(s) to control what is provided to a subscriber had been implemented correctly, this would not happen.

Cable used to be a household service but it has migrated to a point of connection, so every access point in the household is being treated as a separate source of revenue. PayPerView is a service oriented to the Access Point, so a household service does not prevent a cable company from gaining additional revenue.

Comcast is creating access point control by forcing STBs on the customer. It is an opportunity to boost revenue by 'encouraging' everyone with a recorder to use Comcast DVRs because none of us can use the IR Blasters of our recording devices to change channels on the DTA.

Most of the issues with cable companies would disappear if the FCC ruled they had to supply service at the household level. There would be no need for STBs, the control of what a household receives would be done by the delivery mechanism. There is no technical barrier to managing the system such that a subscriber receives only what they have signed up for.

I only have 2 rooms with Time Warner's HD DVRs, pretty much all premium movie content (which is what I use their DVRs mostly for and my 2160s/3576s for network shows using cable--only one is using OTA at the moment), no sports packages, plus internet. This costs $198 per month. I've considered going satellite, but after the initial sign-up plan ends, it appears to cost more (at least here in west Texas).

I may go satellite. Time Warner is starting to issue new boxes throughout the country that are having major problems with constant reboots and failure to record. And if we are forced to use their STB to receive any content other than local channels, those problems are a deal breaker.

Thanks you for your respose, DirecTv for me is $150 per month 4 HD receivers 1 being a DVR HD , all america everything which is all channels (all premium movie) except NFL, NBA season pass includes the following
VOD (video on demand some 7000 shows some free, some pay), DIRECTV2PC (watch your recording on a local networked PC) and soon to be released is MRV multi room viewing( watch your recording on any other receiver from any of your DirecTv DVRs) New is 1080P programming which is all POV at this time.
It all sounds great but they have their share of bugs(large)

Distressing as it may be, cable is simply catching up to the point-of-use business model in place with sat and FIOS. Sat requires a receiver for each device -- you can rent them or buy them. FIOS transmits no analog and only the locals in clear QAM -- everything else requires one of their rented STB's or DVR's or you can purchase a TiVo for better performance and use a FIOS cable card (can also go TiVo route with cable). So how can the FCC bind cable to a service model that denies them the the same revenue streams that their competition freely enjoys.

The fact that 3rd party DVD recorders are being squeezed out of this space should come as no surprise. It has been happening ever since the introduction of digital cable. This period in time is simply the tail-end of the transition when the shoe actually falls. Does the "problem" lie strictly with cable? No. If equipment manufacturers did like TiVo and implemented a cable card slot in their DVD recorders, there would be no issue. But as constituted, DVD recorders are mostly suited for the OTA market going forward.

I'm just wondering, if the cable companies were to provide all "extended basic" channels without scrambling them (digital), that is if they did what they're doing now with analog, how many QAM tuners are there out there that would be able to get those channels?

Isn't it a little hard to find a digital TV device that will tune QAM? (Forget about recorders. I'm talking about ANY type of device with a digital tuner...meanng TVs as well.)

Sorry but if it's a TV it will have a tuner, a display monitor unit doesn't. A lot of us really don't need TVs just Monitors(with HDMI inputs)
I only have 1 TV(tuner never used) the rest are display monitors and projector.

Yes, you guys that have been getting the extended basic digital channels in-the-clear up 'till now have really been the rare exception and were extremely lucky. Most everybody for years now have only been able to get the locals (or up to 31, or whatever it is).

I don't know if you realized most of the people you've been talking to weren't getting all those digital channels like you were all this time, but now you know, and now you'll be part of them, too. It really was only a matter of time.

If the external cable tuner you get has the ability to change channels on it's own, you should be alright, even if it'll take a bit more work. If it doesn't, you'll need a recorder with an IR blaster that has a code which can control it, or else it just might be time to consider a different kind of provider (if you're able to do so). I think many of the SD satellite tuners have timers which can be manually set (at least my Dish tuner does), but stay away from U-Verse - because theirs can't - at least currently.

Another unusual, rare thing: getting TCM in a basic cable tier. If you ever change providers, you'll be likely to have to upgrade to a higher tier to get that. So, if you want to keep that, and you absolutely have to use an external tuner, you'll want to make sure to ask for one of those that can change channels on it's own, like I mentioned (unless you just plan on leaving it on that channel all the time, like I think somebody here might even possibly do).

Maybe I'm imagining things, but it seems to me like people who subscribe to regional or local providers get more digital QAM channels in-the-clear while those who have a national provider (i.e. Time Warner) typically get less.

If we had a poll, this argument could be settled.

If you have basic cable and get more or extra channels than the subscriptions states, that's fine
If the cable company now wants to charge your for those extra channels, that's called business.

I guess I'm showing my age (still younger than many on here), but when cable first came around we had to view thru their converters because TVs couldn't tune the channels they used. Then when cable-ready TVs came along they unscrambled the non-premium channels and added in-line converters for premium channels where you could view everything without a converter box on every TV in the house if you used splitters and routed extra cable (usually under the carpet). That was the way the could get the business of those who remained using OTA. Then they did away with the in-line converters for premium channels and made us use STBs for the premium and some channels not provided in the cable package, but left the others unscrambled. At least that is they way it was every place I lived and had cable (quite a few places).

Now that digital/HD is here, I guess they have decided it is time to get more money out of us by pretty much dictating we use STBs (maybe the satellite providers caused this requiring satellite receivers at each point of use). Up until the beginning of this year, I was able to view digital content for every unscrambled analog channel provided without the use of an STB. Now I am down to a few digital channels, most that I don't give a hoot about. Still getting TNT HD, SCI-FI (SD), local HD channels, local SD channels, all the old analog, and a few like the weather channel, shopping channels, SPIKE and FOODTV (which act to be SDV because they move all the time). Oh, they were nice enough last Monday to unscramble all the music channels. Just what I need, a $2000 radio!

I'm guessing we will start seeing an increase in people buying monitors rather than TVs if they use cable or satellite and maybe having one smaller TV for OTA as a backup when cable/satellite go bad.

I don't mind using the STBs for cable (maybe satellite in the near future). But they need to make it so we can record/watch more shows than we can now. After all, we are paying for access to all the channels in our package. We should be able to record as many as we can/want. Otherwise, just charge me a small flat rate per minute of watching/recording what I actually pull in at that time.

Just curious - since you have so many - do all of your QAM tuners get the same channels?

Comcast here in Portland puts TCM on their "mapped" channel 501 in one of the digital tiers that requires a "digital" converter box. As with many other channels in this "digital tier," what Comcast is actually delivering is an analog signal out of that "digital" converter box. As a big TCM fan I may only record TCM through channel 3 or as a "line in" feed from the Comcast converter box composite output.

What recorders do I use to record TCM? There is one Panasonic DMR-EZ28V, three DMR-EZ17 models, one Philips 3575 and one Magnavox 2160, all of which have NTSC, ATSC and QAM tuners. Once these recorders have been connected to the Comcast analog output "digital" cable boxes the QAM tuners are no longer of any use.

With one Philips 3576 and one Magnavox 2080 connected directly to the Comcast coax cable, I've grown to appreciate tuning and recording the actual digital signals (on the many sub-channels in the 73-135 range) that these QAM tuner equipped devices access and record as actual digital content.

Of course, Comcast does not document the digital sub-channels in the 73-135 range since any such documentation might have triggered regulatory oversight that would complicate Comcast's plan to encode these sub-channels.

One Comcast Customer Service Associate (that I spoke with around a week ago) said that anything my QAM tuners were receiving on those (73-135 range) sub-channels was merely "bleed through from the analog channel" (i.e., channels 32-71). Then I described and compared the picture quality differences between the analog feeds of networks on channels 32-71 and the beautiful digital feeds of those same networks found on the sub-channels in the 73-135 range. Then that associate apologized for his idiotic "bleed through" statement and admitted that what I was seeing on those QAM-tuned sub-channels are actually digital or HD feeds of those networks. He mentioned enjoying those channels himself on his own HD TV at home. As to what would become of those QAM-tuned sub-channels he said he is "not qualified to say." Then he very quickly "clammed-up." Perhaps he had just revealed too much.