Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 177

I just don't understand how they managed to goof up this machine that everyone wanted for so long. I don't recall anyone having complaints about the original 2160. They finally become available again by way of the "A" version, and it's a mess.

But what's worse is that they're not agreeing to fix anyone's machine, and have both admitted AND DENIED there's a problem. Grrrrr....

Plain and simple greed, rush to get it out the door without QA proper procedures.

I tried as indicated, using L1, on a DVD-R , and I got E19 error after the progress bar stuck at 1% for some time.

FYI: Anyone interested in linux operating systems see link (some my want to look at their DVR HDD)
http://www.linux.org/

On my 2160A, switching to L1 or L2 does not stop Auto Record. It does restart, but then continues to Auto Record after switching.

This behavior seems consistent with my owners manual which says:

"The autostart recording will be stopped, cleared in following cases:
(long list, including "Changing input channels")
- The autostart recording will automatically resume for new recording"

That last line is open to some interpretation, since it obviously does not resume auto recording for everything in the list of actions, e.g. turning the power to the standby mode -- it apparently means will resume "when possible".

Update:
TV arrived today, Hard to tell the PQ difference for this 32" 720P from my Panasonic 42" plasma 1080P at viewing distrance greater than 6'. Both getting signals form DirecTv HD receivers. Good bang for the buck, I'm a happy camper. I just checked Newegg (Sold Out)

Hi wajo.

Terrific job on the Pio 3567.

One note:

About the audio level issue with digital channels, your source is slightly incorrect. There is first no such thing as "MPEG" or "SD" audio. MPEG encoding is strictly a video compression scheme. It is often paired with AC3 audio, which is the audio compression scheme mostly developed at Dolby labs (and a virtual identical twin to Dolby 5.1) selected by the ATSC as well as used for DVB. So, virtually all HD OTA, sat, and (digital) cable will use AC3. Cable passes it through, typically, while DBS repackages it slightly for use with DVB. AES is typically used professionally for digital audio that accompanies SD, but for digital DBS "SD" channels, something like AAC compression is also probably used for compatibility with legacy STBs ("SD" locals are now extracted directly from HD locals, centercut to 4:3 and converted to 480i, so they, too, use AC3).

As to the level differences, the AC3 system provides the correct levels, believe it or not, while older analog systems that accompany NTSC typically do not. NTSC is perceived as comparatively louder, but AC3 is actually the correct level

Back in the day TV and radio stations were required to not deviate above a particular level, and they employed dynamic range compression and limiters to accomplish that. The reason was that overdeviation meant that signal began to emanate outside the allocated band, which could cause interference to adjacent stations.

Broadcasters soon found that compression, in particular "up-compression" allowed them to have a "hotter" sound at technically the same volume level. It was perceived as louder due to a higher aggregate energy level, even if the peak excursions were still within limits. Jocks loved the sound of their voices compressed, and pop music had an artificial "pop" because of it. It soon became something overused by everybody, as every station competed with the next to have the "hotter" sound, which was perceived as where folks tuning the dial would stop, equating the louder sound with better reception. The same sort of "competition" raged in mastering CDs. Popular music today has so much compression that the VU meter needles jump to "0" and virtually remain there.

So this legacy misuse has permeated the TV industry, and only now, with AC3, are we getting back to the correct levels. AC3 also contains the dialnorm, dynrng, and compr metadata, the first of which is to keep station-to-station digital audio levels the same and the last two which will allow decoders so-equipped to add DR compression and limiting directly in your living room, if you wish (much more at the Dolby website). These modes can greatly reduce the level differences between commercials and programs and one channel and the next. Every STB uses dialnorm, and most modern AVRs have handles for dynrng and compr. On the JVC digital AVRs its referred to as "Midnite Mode", and I leave it on all the time and I never have to touch the volume at all.

You know a while back I got a nice old Panasonic 3800 pro DAT machine off E-bay cheap to play with and because my step dad plays music and wanted some good quality live recordings.
I had a bunch of the 4mm tapes from a old backup system I no longer use so I took the smallest one and hooked up my CD player digitally into the DAT recorder and hit record. The level meter almost never varied from 0db as it just does a digital to digital transfer so it records everything in that mode EXACTLY as the original bit for bit. The recording sounded exactly like the original and actually even though it was massively compressed still sounded pretty good audio wise. It's a bit OT but seeing how you mentioned it it sure would be nice if engineers were allowed to master levels and audio for quality again rather then just louder then the next recording.
The DAT tape will immediately start to get problems if you go over Odb but will sound perfect at anything up to 0, no extra headroom like analog tape.

There's a very good reason for that. Our eyes can only discriminate 1/60th of a degree of arc.

According to this terrific website and Java app calculator:

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/v...alculator.html

you must be sitting closer than 5.5 feet for 20/20 vision to fully resolve 1080i/1080p on a 42" screen (1080p set). You must be sitting closer than 4.2 feet from a 32" (were it 1080p) to resolve it, which is why 1080p in smaller sets is not really necessary nor even all that common.

If you sit more than 6 feet away from either, the limiting factor is human vision, and they will both appear to have the same resolution.

The "calculator" is the perfect place to start when buying a TV, once you know what room it's destined for and how far away from it you will be sitting.

Sorry for drifting OT (just trying to help wajo with the sound Q in his original post) but I agree. With the death (this week) of analog TV and the eventual death of analog processing in TV stations and networks (not to mention the impending death of analog radio and implementation of its weak replacement, HD Radio) the tide will slowly turn and audio levels will finally all be the same and free of much compression, compared to now. But I am afraid the recording industry is too married to it for it to disappear completely.

Analog systems operated at the top of the window having 3-6 dB of headroom, because lower meant noise and hiss crept in and higher yielded "soft" clipping which was fairly benign and sounded OK.

Digital audio is very different. Noise and hiss are not factors. You can operate much lower in the transfer curve and have virtually the same outcome. Also, digital clipping is heinous, and can sound like a banshee being thrown off the digital cliff, resulting in sounds very unlike the original material. For those reasons, digital typically operates with 20 dB of headroom ("0" VU is calibrated to -20 DbFS).

I can't quite remember, but DAT may have operated as high as -12 DbFS. In non-live recording situations, pro audio guys typically operate closer to DbFS (above the recommended calibration) which can squeeze a bit more signal in and lower the relative level of quantization error noise (something much different from and much lower than analog "noise") in quiet passages, but 24-bit words and beyond make that technique less necessary and less effective.

DbFS (the "FS" means "full scale") means that any digital word attempted to be recorded at or above that level can only be "no 0's and all 1's", so is a brick-wall hard clip. There is no way to predict how digital systems will attempt to resolve a signal above DbFS, and typically they distort immediately and completely (100%). No one wants or needs to ever hear what that sort of distortion sounds like.

So digital actually has more headroom than analog, technically speaking, but that headroom is an arbitrary choice chosen to be much greater (calibrated lower) than analog to prevent the dreaded digital clipping, and that calibration standard was able to be chosen relatively lower because lower-level signals will not incur noise in digital recordings. If not for that lower calibration, it could be said that digital systems actually have much less headroom than analog, due to analog's soft clipping capability above calibration level which digital does not have.

(sorry, back OT now )

I don't think most adults sit closer that 4.2ft from their TV

E22 error on reading HDD!

A Title that was playing stopped at 1:26 and came up with the screen message:

Error E22
Cannot record to this disk

This was followed by

System Error
Please Power Off
SE 2 55

Pressing Power Off on the remote did nothing

Holding down Power on the unit did nothing

Pulling the power cord worked

After Power On the Title played correctly.

There are over 60 hours at EP left so no concern about storage space being low.

No disc in the DVD.

E22 is the error that a failing DVD recorder reports, but this had nothing to do with recording.

Any clues anyone?

Looks like just a read error from disk. I wouldn't worry about it unless it continues to occur. If it continues to happen, time to salvage what you want from the disk. Try a hard reset or skip 079 to reformat. If it continues after a reformat, look to replacing the HDD. If it continues let us know I may have a quick fix for you. Did you ever move, bump or drop the unit?
What unit are we talking about?

The I/O ribbon cable from the ide/cbt to the main board is only held in place by a pinch clip. It doesn't take much to have it work lose.
After testing and swapping out many drives the pinch clip came undone, I though I just bought the farm, until I reinserted the cable and locked down the little clip.

Thanks for the detailed answer, I've never dealt with a DAT anything before so if nothing else it was a relatively cheap learning experience and as long as you stay in the proper parameters it's pretty much exactly what you put in. Now of course everyones using Hard drive based recorders as well doing 24/96 or even better but for a short period tape still ruled
Now if Funai would give us a similar DVR unit that could do HD cable/OTA and recording without spending a thousand bucks and not crippled with DRM all would be right with the world.

Exactly, and I agree. Which explains why 1080p in a smaller set is a wasted technology.

Actually, the optimum distance from a 60"-er is 7.8 feet, and most folks either get a 50-55 and sit 10-12 feet or more away, meaning that most folks are also wasting the higher resolution capability of their 1080p set. 1080 rez is not really a burning issue if we are too far away to resolve it visually. Anything further away than what the calculator indicates, means lowered perceived resolution.

The ATSC began designing the system by discovering the optimum viewing angle (30 degrees) and the optimum aspect ratio (16:9 to fit most available content the best). From that, both the HD pixel structure (based on human vision limitations of ability to discern individual pixels from a flat field) and the recommendation of a viewing distance of 3 (720) to 3.3 (1080) picture heighths was derived. IOW, the ATSC designed the system to have optimum viewer impact at those precise distances.

Closer is OK, but at some point the pixels themselves become visible. Further away is also OK, it just provides neither the optimum resolution nor the optimum panorama (horizontal viewing field). But the ATSC recommendation is also a compromise and sort of a one-size-fits-all approach; personal choice means YMMV; you may want to sit closer or further away, just based on personal taste. And that's perfectly fine.

Much more noticeable when using a projector with 100-120" screen.
Up close is not good. My watching distance is 13ft for the 100" 1080P projector

Thanks guys.
I've always associated E22 with DVD write, never occurred to me it could be an HDD read error. If it was an HDD read error then the drives are not configured for the Streaming Command Set which allows read errors to be ignored.

The unit it occurred on is my original 2160, which has been sitting in situ for several months. Never been dropped or jostled, since taking it out of the box.

It is the favored recording device, so will move timed recordings over to the Philips and work the backlog of Titles down.

I've wanted to do the 2.5" 500GB SATA upgrade, this seems like a good excuse.



Stop/Stop which will kill recording on the PWill start working off

All this talk of Linux and the errors that are now revealing themselves to be linked to the auto record buffer; It occurred to me that someone out there who is really a linux wizard might be able to download the firmware somehow and reverse engineer it and then re-compile it for distribution.

Anyone know someone like this ??

We have been through this discussion before, no Firmware wizards on the thread

It may have been just a random read error, I really wouldn't worry about it unless it continues.

The first 3575 unit I got came with an E22 error on the hard drive. Recording to DVDR was fine, but any attempted recording to the hard drive aborted immediately and left a 00:00 length recording in the HDD index. I exchanged it, and the 2nd unit was fine.

If any of you folks have an extra HDD lying around that will fit a 3576, be advised that someone just put up one on eBay that is in great working order EXCEPT the HDD has an "E48 and cannot record to this HDD", so it's being unloaded as-is. The current bid is $0.99.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Philips-DVDR3576...3%3A1|294%3A50