Magnavox 537, 535, 533, 515, 513, 2160A, 2160, 2080 & Philips 3576, 3575 - Page 26

New 3575 user playing commercial movies reported a "dark pic" with HDMI on his 1080p LCD and some checks found his 3575's HDMI Format was set for the default "RGB" (analog Component) and his HDMI "RGB Range" was set for "Enhanced" prob. from his intial setup testing. Setting the RGB Range back to the default "Normal" made his HDMI pic "brighter than Component."

A reminder, suggested by this user: Don't mess with the RGB Range settings unless you know what you're doing cuz he didn't initially see much of a diff. in the menu page when he played with his RGB Range setting, so he didn't think twice about leaving it on Enhanced, but it made a BIG diff. when he watched DVDs with dark scenes.

In our dicussions, I recommended he set HDMI Format for YCbCr, instead of the default RGB, and see if his TV auto-sets for YCbCr like mine does (i.e., it's YCbCr compatible). He did that and his 52" Samsung LCD showed an immediate and "dramatic" change... it went black for at least 1-2 seconds before the picture came back up as YCbCr digital Component. (My Vizio 47" LCD doesn't do that.) This gave him his best pic for playing his commercial DVDs. He also left his Component connection to the TV cuz he gets a better pic from his cable box thru Component on his key channels.

If you want to try YCbCr for your HDMI connection, you can use the RGB Range menu to tell if your TV is compatible with YCbCr. If it IS compatible, there will be NO visible change in the RGB Range menu pic on screen when you switch between Normal and Enhanced. If NOT compatible, the 3575/76 reverts to the default RGB, and changing the setting for RGB Range between Normal and Enhanced DOES make a slight diff. in the menu pic on screen.

Per the Reminder above, there won't be a BIG change in the menu pic if your TV is NOT YCbCr compatible, so make sure you set RGB Range back to Normal before leaving the HDMI menus. That way, you won't run into darker-than-dark scenes in your movies.

CAUTION: MAKE SURE YOU'VE SELECTED THE HDMI CONNECTION ON YOUR TV before doing the RGB Range test since you CAN make changes in that menu while on OTHER connections (Composite, S-Video or Component) and, OBVIOUSLY, the RBG Range menu will have no effect on the menu pic. After making the correct settings, this user also found little, if any, diff. between HDMI and Component for normal TV watching... they were both good... but that prob. depends on your source and total system, so you'll have to experiment if you want the best PQ from every source in your system. (I get my best all-around TV/HDD watching pic with digital Composite cable cuz my analog cable feed is Composite.)

You can use QVC shopping channel for PQ comparisons of live TV since they have studio lighting, static shots, and text always on screen.

This user's TV ALSO has a setting for YCbCr but setting the TV's YCbCr ON made regular TV watching thru his cable box worse. Besides, his TV was auto-setting for YCbCr from the 3575 for his DVDs, which is what he wanted anyway.

Telecon with a Philips "Tech. Specialist" just now confirms no hardware changes in the 3576 compared to the 3575, only the new Front-End (FE) Firmware (FW).

He said they weren't repackaging returned 3575s in the new 3576 case.
In fact, see next post.

Ken, the TS didn't know exactly what the FE did, so I didn't ask about the DTV-S, but my post above on the DTV-S appearing straightforward when already left on a digital channel, but being blank then fuzzy for several sec when on an analog channel suggests it's going to the digital tuner to check it's status.

The one unit I updated was 0x8D before the update and 0x90 after... it's my original unit.

It would be nice if they released this same FE FW for the 3575 cuz that might be the only way they'd actually write something (in the instructions) about what it does?

Alternate Frozen-Channel Escape

Note: The manual has two incorrect statements (pp 28-29): only analog channels can be added, and deleted digital channels can't be recovered. BOTH ARE WRONG! The secret is you have to FIRST do an Auto Channel Preset > Cable (Analog/Digital) and let it at least START on the digital channels. You can cancel with the BACK button anywhere in the digital channel scan (like on 2.1 or a frozen channel), then you can enter digital channels with a Manual Channel Preset anytime after that. You can also delete and recover channels. I do both all the time in testing various ops and problems with both previously scanned and factory-fresh units.

This describes a new way to escape from a frozen digital channel WITHOUT disconnecting the coax... just tryin' to be lazy and find an easy way out!

Procedure for a Previously Scanned Unit

1. If/when the Auto Channel Preset scan "freezes" on a problem digital channel, press the BACK/RETURN button once, which *should* bring up the starting auto-scan menu over a blue screen. If it doesn't, unplug unit for a couple of sec, then BACK/RETURN out of the scan if it reappears (prob. will).
2. Keep BACK/RETURNing out of the menus to a TV channel, which may bounce back to the problem channel... DON'T DESPAIR, IT'S ONLY TEMPORARY! In a few sec, it should switch to the first digital channel successfully tuned.
3. IF you KNOW you have more digital channels than were scanned in, go to Setup > General Settings > Channel > Manual Channel Preset. Enter basic 2-digit digital channel number(s) directly with number keys and, if a channel tunes, change checkbox to Add (takes a few sec). That adds ALL tunable subchannels in that group. Don't enter the problem Channel number with the number keys or you'll be stuck in perpetual scanning! (However, if it ever happens, just press the BACK/RETURN button again.)
4. When done, BACK/RETURN out to TV pic.

Anyway, most if not all people have reported their tunable digital channels are all below 100 in the 3575/76. Stopping the scan as described above seems to hold the channels it's already tuned during the scan, and any higher channels can be added with a Manual Preset. Check channel numbers vs. your digital TV they might be the same if you're lucky!

Procedure for a NEW Unit Not Previously Scanned (or After a FW Update)

I also used the procedure described above after a FW update, which makes the unit "factory fresh" again, so you have to start SETUP from scratch just like a brand new unit. You also lose your timer programs.

With a "new" unit starting from scratch, stopping the Auto Channel Preset with the BACK/RETURN button won't scan in or retain any digital channels like it does for an already scanned unit. However, it does allow you to enter digital channels manually.

Luckily, I already knew the channels that are tunable in my system so, after the a FW update, my auto channel scan froze on Ch, 91, I BACK/RETURNed out to a TV pic, then used the Manual Channel Preset menu as described above to manually enter my 9 tunable digital channels.

If you have a new unit, or have just installed a FW update, and have a ref. for the digital channels you SHOULD receive, like a TV with digital tuner, you can use Manual Channel Preset to enter the same digital channels your TV receives... don't worry about the numbers after a dash or period, you just need to enter the main/primary number like 83, which will tune all subchannels that are tunable in that group.

If you don't have a digital-tunered TV and/or don't have a clue about your digital channels, you might be better served to use the "pull-the-coax" method described here. That method will give you digital channels up to the point the scan freezes since it lets the scan complete its job... and your unit might not have any problem channels and sail right thru!? Also check for hidden channels as described in that post.

Had to change the post above on escaping from a frozen digital channel during an auto-scan... found out you can wait until it actually does freeze before pressing the BACK button... even better!

ALSO, found a BONUS described above!

rmelone, your best setup is with the 3576 1st on the coax, then coax run to SA box, then on to TV.

Scan for channels and see how many the 3576 can tune by itself. For the future, you can then record these directly in WS by setting the Video > TV Aspect to 16:9 Wide.

For the WS stuff already on the DVR, there are many boxes that WILL NOT send a WS signal thru their analog outputs (S-Video). Not sure if the SA8300 is one of those, but it sounds like it is.

(That's why there are no North American recorders with Component inputs, which WILL transfer a WS signal, but that would give you too good a pic for the Hollywood weazels and weenie-heads... it'd give them severe heartburn!)

One way to know for sure is send the 3576 a WS program from the box via the S-Video cable, then while on that WS channel, set the 3576 Video > TV Aspect to 16:9 Wide and see what the pic looks like. Then you can switrch to 4:3 Letter Box just to compare.

The 3575/76 is a WYSIWYG machine, so whatever setting you make in that TV Aspect menu you SHOULD see on the TV UNLESS the 3576 isn't receiving a WS program due to the analog thing mentioned above.

If your box can't send the WS signal thru analog to the 3576, you won't be able to get the WS programs into the 3576 that way. However, future WS programs that you can record directly with the 3576 1st on the coax will be in WS if you set the TV Aspect for 16:9.

You may already have read this post on WS Recording?

In trying to find a good source of hands-on info on STBs sending WS over analog, I found this post on your specific box by Nextoo, who's done lots of experimenting with getting WS to a DVDR... the SA8300D has to be running SARA SW, which is only a "small subset" of those boxes, according to Nextoo in this link.

Westgate just above Nextoo's post says he used the SA8300 HD to do what you want, but he has to set it to "stretch mode." Nextoo responds to that with the SARA note.

Lots of other posts above and below that might be interesting to you?

Absolutely sure! I get 8 of my cableco's digital HD channels in the clear in my basic analog cable subscription, and many other users report even more digital channels than that.

The "sweet-spot" for the 3575/76 in digital reception/tuning is OTA ATSC. Not sure how it'll react to the other "mixed-bag."

Best place for a 3576, the new model, is Sam's Club. Best price of $248.28 and best return policy by far.

57 Sam's Clubs in LA area, listed here.

This little note in the 3575/76 manual:

"Also, due to compatibility with progressive video
(525p/480p), you can experience higher-density picture
than that in interlace (525i/480i)."

Made me think of the dark pic some people are experiencing with their 1366x768 (720p) TVs.

Someone experiencing dark pic with one of those TVs (usually 32" and smaller") should try a HDMI setting of 1080i.

Just curious if sending an interlaced pic would preclude any darkening effect from a progressive setting, i.e., the "higher-density picture" as noted in the manual?

Also, one 768p TV user found a setting on his TV that brightened the pic up... he had "DVD' and "DTV" settings and switching to DTV (I think) helped his pic's brightness.

Have you checked for a TV setting for DVD or DTV, or similar (a plasma might not have such)?

Also, have you set the HDMI Format to YCbCr, then sent 480p to the TV?

 

 

Edited by wajo - 12/9/12 at 2:32pm

I hope you've got the 3576 1st on the coax, then coax to the STB? If so, did you do an Auto Channel Preset > Cable (Analog/Digital), which is the 3rd option in that menu?


No difference. Finalizing doesn't change aspect, just makes DVD playable in other recorders/players.