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Guide to Building a HTPC, Workstation and Server - Page 78

post #2311 of 18893
6/20/08 at 6:04pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWNewell View Post

The key to this setup is that I'm trying to plan ahead and provide the capability for these components to be transferred to an HTPC in maybe 1.5-2 years. When it is transferred to HTPC, I will want higher quality audio (i.e. no appreciable difference from HTPC vs standalone blue-ray player through Denon AVR and mid-level speakers).

So, while some of the components might be considered a bit overkill for a pure HTPC, it also has to function as a solid Gaming/Multi-media PC for a while. I think I'm pretty pleased with the PC performance this setup will grant me, but I wasn't sure if they will do all that I am hoping for when converted to an HTPC. First thing that comes to mind is the mobo's audio capability, even with a good sound card. I've read some of this thread and seen where multichannel HD Audio is not always is not always supported by some mobo's. (I'm not real well versed on in this area so forgive my ignorance and any help would be appricated). But is there any way to get a digital multichannel HD Audio out?

Also, I guess I don't really need to SLI capability, but I just wanted to leave that option available in case I decide to spring for a 30 monitor and the graphics performance is less than desired. So, if you feel will get a lot more of what I want from the future HTPC by giving up the SLI capability, then I'm opened to those idea.

So, I guess my question is in regards to this setup's future HTPC performance, while not compromising current PC performance too much:
  • Will I be able to play multichannel HD Audio with these components? If not, what additional equipment/changes are required/recommend.
  • Do you recommend any changes to these components that will be more effective/efficient (I don't mind a slight monetary increase; set a $600 budget in mind for these components).
  • Any other video cards, or yet to be released video cards that will support multichannel LPCM and/or pass the digital audio through HDMI? (Or something like that, forgive me if I'm a little off on this).
  • Any Soundcard solutions on the market yet?

Thanks for the help. Any additional thoughts that I didn't even mention or think of in this post would be greatly appreciated. (Sorry for the long post)

PS The trigger will be pulled on this purchase around the end of July. So any upcoming releases that would be a better choice and remain with in my budget would be great suggestions. Thanks again!

Forget about multichannel HD audio right now. Your system is capable of DD5.1/DTS through S/PDIF or HDMI. In 1.5 -2 years later you will be able to buy a cheap (< $100) but perfect solution for it (mb with IGP, discrete graphics card with buit-in audio controller or a HDMI sound card). If you want to know the current status, read this post.
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Gear mentioned in this thread:

post #2312 of 18893
6/20/08 at 6:11pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by carrera1 View Post

Posted this on the 8200 thread but no response, so I am trying here:

Quick question, does the AMD 9750 work with the abit A-n78hd? It's 125W and I know this is an issue with some other boards. Checked the abit site and I can't find anything... also sent support an email and no response. Not interested in other CPUs that are cheaper or whatever... my question is specific to the 9750

Perhaps nobody knows the answer (except abit engineers). A solution is buy the mb and 9750 at mwave and let them test the system.
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post #2313 of 18893
6/20/08 at 6:28pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xj-boonie View Post

Most of the P35 motherboards I’ve looked at can only support 2 IDE devices, and I’ve got 4 (2x optical and 2x hdd). So I either get new hard drives, new optical drives, or use PATA to SATA converters on the hdd’s. I'm leaning towards either a Gigabyte or ASUS, but not sure which one. I'm looking for both the client and server to be very stable machines (current HTPC has random reboots that I've not been able to stop/fix).

Also worried that the power supply for the server might not be enough.

GA-EP35-DS3R is a good choice for the server. You may use two SATA-IDE adapters or sell PAPA HDDs/buy SATA HDDs. The latter may be a smarter solution.

Your PSU is good enough.
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post #2314 of 18893
6/20/08 at 7:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

2. Or you can use DB9M Serial Add-A-Port Adapter with Bracket for Intel Motherboards.

3. You can connect two PATA (IDE) drives to the mb.

Great news. Thanks renethx.

You da man.
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post #2315 of 18893
6/20/08 at 7:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Forget about multichannel HD audio right now. Your system is capable of DD5.1/DTS through S/PDIF or HDMI. In 1.5 -2 years later you will be able to buy a cheap (< $100) but perfect solution for it (mb with IGP, discrete graphics card with buit-in audio controller or a HDMI sound card). If you want to know the current status, read this post.


Ok. Living with DVD quality audio while it is a gaming PC isn't such a bad thing. I was just trying to avoid having to RE-BUY too much and the whole "looking for a new mobo, but new mobo's don't work with my current cpu, etc" game.

The Auzen X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 and ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 look promising, and could quite possibly be dirt cheap buy the time I'm ready to use this as a HTPC. Will those cards work with the mobo I picked (if not, what changes would you recommend)?

Thanks again for your contributions. I'm sure they are appreciated by much more than just me!
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post #2316 of 18893
6/20/08 at 7:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

GA-EP35-DS3R is a good choice for the server. You may use two SATA-IDE adapters or sell PAPA HDDs/buy SATA HDDs. The latter may be a smarter solution.

Your PSU is good enough.

Thanks for the suggestion!

Also, on the client side, considering I'll be playing back HDTV and would like to add Blu-ray at some point., should I go with the GA-M78SM-S2H or A-N78HD motherboard, and which cpu: Athlon X2 4850e 2.5 GHz or Athlon X2 3800+ 2.0GHz (existing) or Phenom X3 8450 2.1GHz cpu?

Thanks again,
Mike
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post #2317 of 18893
6/20/08 at 7:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

1. Forget about ATX+IGP in the Intel platform right now. ASUS P5E-V HDMI is the only reasonable choice, but not available in US. There could be G45/GeForce 9300/9400 ATX boards in a few months, however. One of the main features of these new boards is multichannel LPCM HDMI audio. If it's not your concern, buy a discrete graphics card now.

2. Your HTPC constantly emits 80W-100W heat. So some kind of ventilation is a must. If the cabinet has holes in the back where LC17's rear fans can exhaust air, then it should be fine. Otherwise it's not good.

Thanks much ... I'll give it a whirl. If anyone has any ideas to lower the heat output, I'm all ears.
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post #2318 of 18893
6/20/08 at 11:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Perhaps nobody knows the answer (except abit engineers). A solution is buy the mb and 9750 at mwave and let them test the system.


Yep, you're correct, no one knows. I called abit support earlier today and they didn't know. Their sheets only go up to the 9600. Their suggestion was buy the 9750 and see if it works. Fry's has a great deal for $179 plus some cheap mbo I could throw away or sell on eBay. If it doesn't work I can always return it.

Thanks for the repy!
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post #2319 of 18893
6/21/08 at 1:21am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NWNewell View Post

The Auzen X-Fi HomeTheater 7.1 and ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3 look promising, and could quite possibly be dirt cheap buy the time I'm ready to use this as a HTPC. Will those cards work with the mobo I picked (if not, what changes would you recommend)?

Surely they will work fine with your system, and perhaps there will be cheaper HDMI sound cards by then.
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post #2320 of 18893
6/21/08 at 1:28am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xj-boonie View Post

Also, on the client side, considering I'll be playing back HDTV and would like to add Blu-ray at some point., should I go with the GA-M78SM-S2H or A-N78HD motherboard, and which cpu: Athlon X2 4850e 2.5 GHz or Athlon X2 3800+ 2.0GHz (existing) or Phenom X3 8450 2.1GHz cpu?

If you have X2 3800+, then you don't need to buy another CPU. 2.0GHz is good enough for BD playback (as long as HA works). A-N78HD is good in my experience. GA-M78SM-S2H looks fine too according to actual users.
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post #2321 of 18893
6/21/08 at 1:33am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdb77a View Post

Thanks much ... I'll give it a whirl. If anyone has any ideas to lower the heat output, I'm all ears.

Use GA-EP35-DS3L instead of GA-P35-DS3L that consumes 5W-20W lower power.
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post #2322 of 18893
6/21/08 at 2:02am
Thanks to renethx for his work.
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post #2323 of 18893
6/21/08 at 2:21am
Hi, I've been doing some 'research' into a good set-up for my new HTPC and have a question regarding the choice of the motherboard.

I'm probably going for a Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 so I'll be needing a socket 775 mobo. I will also be doing some gaming on the HTPC so a discrete graphics card (probably HD4850) will be needed. Furthermore the case will probably be a Antec Fusion V2 Black, which only supports mATX motherboards.

With the release of the new P45/G45 Intel chipsets it would probably be a good choice for my set-up, but I'm wondering if there are any specific models released on in the making that would fit in my system? Seeing as I'm using a discrete graphics card, it would probably make more sense to go for a P45 instead of a G45 with IGP. But when I look at its predecessor the P35 I only see motherboards with ATX form factor, none with mATX. So does this mean the P45 will not get a mATX release? And if so, am i better of with a G45 or maybe something else entirely?

Any advice is appreciated

Oh and while I'm still here, as I said I will probably go with the E8400 CPU, but the boy in me still has some doubt whether or not I should go for something even strong, such as a quad core Q6600 or Q9XXX, also considering I will be using the HTPC for gaming. Any recommendations on this one?
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post #2324 of 18893
6/21/08 at 2:26am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiriB View Post

Hi, I've been doing some 'research' into a good set-up for my new HTPC and have a question regarding the choice of the motherboard.

I'm probably going for a Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 so I'll be needing a socket 775 mobo. I will also be doing some gaming on the HTPC so a discrete graphics card (probably HD4850) will be needed. Furthermore the case will probably be a Antec Fusion V2 Black, which only supports mATX motherboards.

With the release of the new P45/G45 Intel chipsets it would probably be a good choice for my set-up, but I'm wondering if there are any specific models released on in the making that would fit in my system? Seeing as I'm using a discrete graphics card, it would probably make more sense to go for a P45 instead of a G45 with IGP. But when I look at its predecessor the P35 I only see motherboards with ATX form factor, none with mATX. So does this mean the P45 will not get a mATX release? And if so, am i better of with a G45 or maybe something else entirely?

Any advice is appreciated

Oh and while I'm still here, as I said I will probably go with the E8400 CPU, but the boy in me still has some doubt whether or not I should go for something even strong, such as a quad core Q6600 or Q9XXX, also considering I will be using the HTPC for gaming. Any recommendations on this one?

There will be no P45 mATX, and the production cost of G45 is the same as P45. Go with G45 mATX even if you use a discrete graphics card (or G33/G31 if you want to save money).

For gaming, E8400 is perhaps the best choice.
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post #2325 of 18893
6/21/08 at 3:06am
I did manage to find that DFI apparently made a P45 mATX board (google 'p45 matx', first hit) but would that have any advantages over a G45 one?

Oh, and what are the thoughts on a single slot HD4850 vs a dual slot HD4850 (with more cooling, seeing as you might want that for a silent, cool HTPC). Will that even fit on a mATX board? Not even sure if there even will be dual slot HD4850's btw...
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post #2326 of 18893
6/21/08 at 4:43am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JiriB View Post

I did manage to find that DFI apparently made a P45 mATX board (google 'p45 matx', first hit) but would that have any advantages over a G45 one?

Oh, and what are the thoughts on a single slot HD4850 vs a dual slot HD4850 (with more cooling, seeing as you might want that for a silent, cool HTPC). Will that even fit on a mATX board? Not even sure if there even will be dual slot HD4850's btw...

I see, DFI is planning a couple of SLI/CrossFire mATX mbs as well as P45 mATX. Basically P45 = G45 with IGP disabled (afaik), so they are identical if you don't use IGP except for TDP:

- P45: 22W
- G45: 24W

But actual power consumption may be the same if you disable IGP.

A single slot HD 4850 is just the reference design card. It should be quiet enough for most users. A dual slot HD 4850 card has a different cooler (usually quieter than the reference cooler, and maybe has a different card design). You just lose the slot below the PCI Express x16 slot.
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post #2327 of 18893
6/21/08 at 5:06am
Ok, I think I'll just go for the G45 then, and decide later on whether or not I will get a dual slot HD4850..

thx renethx
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post #2328 of 18893
6/21/08 at 10:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If you have X2 3800+, then you don't need to buy another CPU. 2.0GHz is good enough for BD playback (as long as HA works). A-N78HD is good in my experience. GA-M78SM-S2H looks fine too according to actual users.

Great! HA=Hardware Acceleration? Does IGP on both the GA-M78SM-S2H and A-N78HD have working HA with Win XP?

One last question - a cooler for the Q6600?
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post #2329 of 18893
6/21/08 at 11:30am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by xj-boonie View Post

Great! HA=Hardware Acceleration? Does IGP on both the GA-M78SM-S2H and A-N78HD have working HA with Win XP?

One last question - a cooler for the Q6600?

Yes to the first and second questions.

Try the stock cooler or Scythe Ninja (not mini).
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post #2330 of 18893
6/22/08 at 12:44am
I've read this thread with great interest and learning a lot !
Thanks to renethx for continuing to fill this thread with
more and more valuable info.

I'm getting ready to build my next PC and have a couple
of question now. My PC will need to be best equipped for
lot of video encoding jobs and smooth HD playback.
It'll not be used for gaming.
Given these requirements I'm wondering what'd be a
solid system for me that'd last for few years.


1) Intel q6600 vs Core2 Due E8400
Which one is better suited for my purposes and why ?

2) MB: I'm thinking one of GA-EP45-DS3R, GA-EP45-DS4P
or GA-EP45-DS3L.
Which one is the best value for me ?

3) Video Card: 8600GTS or HD3650
Does 8600GTS provide HA like HD3650 ?


4) Memory...what type and how much ?

Thanks for your input.
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post #2331 of 18893
6/22/08 at 1:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by termite View Post

I've read this thread with great interest and learning a lot !
Thanks to renethx for continuing to fill this thread with
more and more valuable info.

I'm getting ready to build my next PC and have a couple
of question now. My PC will need to be best equipped for
lot of video encoding jobs and smooth HD playback.
It'll not be used for gaming.
Given these requirements I'm wondering what'd be a
solid system for me that'd last for few years.


1) Intel q6600 vs Core2 Due E8400
Which one is better suited for my purposes and why ?

2) MB: I'm thinking one of GA-EP45-DS3R, GA-EP45-DS4P
or GA-EP45-DS3L.
Which one is the best value for me ?

3) Video Card: 8600GTS or HD3650
Does 8600GTS provide HA like HD3650?

4) Memory...what type and how much?

1. Q6600

2. It depends on what features you need (dual PCIe x8, onboard RAID, Dolby Home Theater etc.).

3. It depends on your system. GeForce works better than ATI in some systems and ATI works better in other systems. Basically either one should be fine. Check this one.

4. DDR2-800 2 x 1GB or 2 x 2GB.
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post #2332 of 18893
6/22/08 at 8:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

1. Q6600

2. It depends on what features you need (dual PCIe x8, onboard RAID, Dolby Home Theater etc.).

3. It depends on your system. GeForce works better than ATI in some systems and ATI works better in other systems. Basically either one should be fine. Check this one.

4. DDR2-800 2 x 1GB or 2 x 2GB.


Thanks renethx !

Even with the MBs supporting 45nm, and E8400 being 45nm
you still recommended Q6600 for me. Is this because of the
encoding jobs I will be doing ? Is there a performance comparison
done between these two types somewhere ?
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post #2333 of 18893
6/22/08 at 9:10am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by termite View Post

Even with the MBs supporting 45nm, and E8400 being 45nm you still recommended Q6600 for me. Is this because of the encoding jobs I will be doing? Is there a performance comparison done between these two types somewhere?

In general Q6600 is faster than E8400 in encoding. CPU Chart 2007. Which encoder do you use?
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post #2334 of 18893
6/22/08 at 9:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

In general Q6600 is faster than E8400 in encoding. CPU Chart 2007. Which encoder do you use?

Great.. that chart is very useful. I plan to do H264 encoding among
other types. I do a lot of video editing and my current system is not
helping with the arrival of advanced video codecs and HD video etc.
(Pentium 4 2.8Ghz, with Radion 9600).
I want a solid video card with HA, HDCP & great quality video.
The card you pointed to looks good (I'll read more to see what's the
differences are between GT & GTS). I was also excited to hear HD4850 on
this board.. but maybe it's an overkill for my purposes.
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post #2335 of 18893
6/22/08 at 1:32pm
Hi I need and opinion on cpu choice for a new build.

I plan to watch bluray and hd-dvd ansd also play ms flight sim. This is the only game I will be playing. So will the on board video from a Gigabyte GA-M78SM-S2H GF8200 be fine for flight sim?

The cpu choices I have narrowed done to

1)AMD Phenom X4 9550 Quad Core Processor Socket AM2 2.2GHZ 4MB Cache 95W Retail Box
2)AMD Phenom X4 9750 Quad Core Processor Socket AM2 2.4GHZ 4MB Cache 125W Retail Box
3)AMD Phenom 8750 Triple Core Processor Socket AM2 2.4GHZ 3.5MB Cache 95W Retail Box
4)AMD Phenom 8650 Triple Core Processor Socket AM2 2.3GHZ 3.5MB Cache 95W Retail Box
5)AMD Phenom X3 8450 Triple Core Processor Socket AM2+ 2.1GHZ 3.5MB Cache 95W Retail Box

I need to order from ncix.com because in Canada there are not a lot of choice in 8200 boards.
They have the ecs , the gigabyte and the asus I am going with the gigabyte because it supports 125watt cpus. Please recommend the cpu I should buy for the above.

I plan on using 1080p @24 and 60hz will the onbaord video work fine for this?
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post #2336 of 18893
6/22/08 at 3:35pm
Okay, I've never been concerned about wattage, but I'm anticipating the new G45. Since it will be mITX, I might as well take advantage of that and get a slim case, like this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811163081

But it's got a 120W PSU in it, that's it. So what CPU should I go with? Normally I'd just get a Q9300 or something, but is that too much power? Do I need a 65W one?

Between the CPU, fans, and a HDD, can 120W even do this, or should I look for something that I can put a regular PSU into, like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811133029

?

Any advice is appreciated!
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post #2337 of 18893
6/22/08 at 5:38pm
Okay, so I just ordered a nice 1080p capable tv, and I'm obviously trying to build a HTPC for it. I would like something that will not stutter ever, I've been doing a lot of research and googling and it's a bit confusing, but it seems I can cheap out on the processor as long as I get an ATi 2400/2600 series?

Here's what I'm about to pull the trigger on:
http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx?WishListNumber=9937868

Basically I'm trying to get it cheap with low power consumption. I've never built any AMD machines but I'd be willing to if it meant it would be cheaper. If anyone with more experience with HTPCs could please comment on this build I'd really appreciate the input.
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post #2338 of 18893
6/22/08 at 6:03pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wildchild22 View Post

Hi I need and opinion on cpu choice for a new build.

I plan to watch bluray and hd-dvd ansd also play ms flight sim. This is the only game I will be playing. So will the on board video from a Gigabyte GA-M78SM-S2H GF8200 be fine for flight sim?

The cpu choices I have narrowed done to

1)AMD Phenom X4 9550 Quad Core Processor Socket AM2 2.2GHZ 4MB Cache 95W Retail Box
2)AMD Phenom X4 9750 Quad Core Processor Socket AM2 2.4GHZ 4MB Cache 125W Retail Box
3)AMD Phenom 8750 Triple Core Processor Socket AM2 2.4GHZ 3.5MB Cache 95W Retail Box
4)AMD Phenom 8650 Triple Core Processor Socket AM2 2.3GHZ 3.5MB Cache 95W Retail Box
5)AMD Phenom X3 8450 Triple Core Processor Socket AM2+ 2.1GHZ 3.5MB Cache 95W Retail Box

I need to order from ncix.com because in Canada there are not a lot of choice in 8200 boards.
They have the ecs , the gigabyte and the asus I am going with the gigabyte because it supports 125watt cpus. Please recommend the cpu I should buy for the above.

I plan on using 1080p @24 and 60hz will the onbaord video work fine for this?

I don't know about MS FS, but from this test, FS is playable with GeForce 8200, but not that great (basically 8200 = 8400 in 3D performance). Perhaps you'd better buy a discrete card (like Geforce 9600 GT) if you want better FPS.

Phenom is overkill. Athlon X2 4850e is good enough for your purpose. Among the processors you cited, I would choose X3 8450 (simply because it's the cheapest).

8200 works fine with 1080p/24.
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post #2339 of 18893
6/22/08 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If you have X2 3800+, then you don't need to buy another CPU. 2.0GHz is good enough for BD playback (as long as HA works). A-N78HD is good in my experience. GA-M78SM-S2H looks fine too according to actual users.

Thanks for the response about the cooler and IGP.

Hopefully last question: I currently use an optical S/PDIF to my receiver. It doesn't look like either the A-N78HD or GA-M78SM-S2H have optical S/PDIF, and GA-M78SM-S2H looks like it has coaxial S/PDIF but newegg list it as optical. If I were to go with A-N78HD, what would be the best way to get the sound to my receiver (which does accept 5.1 analog sound input, I believe).
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post #2340 of 18893
6/22/08 at 6:29pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

Okay, I've never been concerned about wattage, but I'm anticipating the new G45. Since it will be mITX, I might as well take advantage of that and get a slim case, like this one:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811163081

But it's got a 120W PSU in it, that's it. So what CPU should I go with? Normally I'd just get a Q9300 or something, but is that too much power? Do I need a 65W one?

Between the CPU, fans, and a HDD, can 120W even do this, or should I look for something that I can put a regular PSU into, like this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16811133029

Perhaps 120W PSU is barely OK for Q9300. But Q9300 is definitely overkill (you'd better use it in a workstation). As HA works, Pentium Dual-Core E2220 (2.4GHz, 65nm), Pentium DC E5200 (2.5GHz, 45nm, Q3) or Core 2 Duo E7200 (2.53GHz) will be good enough and run much cooler.

Recently I measured power consumption of various systems. The system closer to G45 is

- abit I-N73HD (GeForce 7100)
- Core 2 Duo E8400
- LG BD drive
- 1 x HDD
- Antec NSK2480 (2 x 120mm fan + 380W 80 PLUS PSU)

The total system power consumption:

- Idle: 48W
- BD playback (from LG drive): 75W
- Prime95: 78W

If you play movies from HDD, power consumption will be about -20W. PSU is 80 PLUS. LC19's PSU will consume about +5W.

Edited

I found that TDP of GeForce 7100 is only 17.6W (NB and SB combined).

- G45: 24W, 65nm
- ICH10: 4.5W

So G45 is closer to G35 in power consumption.

- G35: 28W, 90nm
- ICH9R: 4.3W

G45 consumes about -4W (hopefully < -4W). G35 system:

- ASUS P5E-VM HDMI (G35)
- Core 2 Duo E8400
- LG BD drive
- 1 x HDD
- Antec NSK2480 (2 x 120mm fan + 380W 80 PLUS PSU)

The total system power consumption:

- Idle: 71W
- BD playback (from LG drive): 98W
- Prime95: 102W

Conclusion

So the conclusion is that 120W PSU is enough if you use a dual-core processor (in particular 45 nm).
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