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Guide to Building a HTPC, Workstation and Server - Page 120

post #3571 of 18891
9/28/08 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

If you put something on the second PCIe x16 slot (electrically x8), then the first PCIe x16 slot automatically slows down to x8 (enough bandwidth for video playback though). 790GX has only 22 PCIe lanes (and 4 lanes for A-Link Xpress II).

this is what i have in my htpc:

AMD phenom 9850 with bf92 heatsink.
4 GB of DDR2-800
biostar 790gx
onboard 3300 video ( later 4350 or 4550 video card)
2 x 1 1 TB Seagate HD
1 x 160 GB seagate
1 x 250 GB seagate
2 x m780 HDTV tuner

right now i am putting 2 x tuner on 2 pcie 1x slot. i know that is correct. the heatsink is just touch the top of the cover. if i am not using any graphic card, can i plug one of the tuner on to gfx slot or not.
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post #3572 of 18891
9/28/08 at 3:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbMagFab View Post

So is price it? And at newegg it's more like 89 vs 149, but the point is valid.

Not sure why I'm unable to get a direct answer to this seemingly simple question... Is the 9150e technically better than the 8450, or is there any technical reason the 8450 is better?

Techinically (I mean from the viewpoint of CPU architecture and pure CPU performance) they are almost identical.

The "e" version is just a cherry-picked die that runs stably at a lower voltage. Other than that it deos not differ from any other Phenom X4 processor. And X3 is just X4 with a defective core disabled.

So performance-wise, 9150e is nearly identical with 8450 (1.8x4=7.2~2.1x3=6.3). The only advantage of 9150e is low power consumption (because of low operating voltage/low HT fequency 1.6GHz/low frequency 1.8GHz). The low HT 1.6GHz is even worse than the normal HT 1.8GHz.
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post #3573 of 18891
9/28/08 at 4:39pm
I've been reading this forum a lot, and love the guide!

The system i wanna build is based on it.

The components i want are:

PSU LC Power 550W Green Power 140mm V2.2
HD Maxtor SATA-2 500Gb 7.200rpm 32Mb
DVDRW LiteOn LH-20A3H 20x LightScribe Black bulk
Dimm 2048Mb DDR2 Kingston PC2-6400 (800)
Motherboard Asus Skt775 - P5Q iP45
Intel Core2 Duo E8500 3.16Ghz Sk775 6Mb FSB1333 Box
Cooler Zalman CNPS8700 LED
Sapphire ATI Radeon PCI-E HD4850 512Mb GDDR3

The problem is the case.

The Antec Fusion Max isn't available in Portugal (i can only find the Antec Fusion), and some cases i've seen are too small to handle the size of the ATI HD4850.

Can you guys please reccomend me cases that can Handle the size of this ATI Board? I could use as many suggestions as possible, since the choice here in Portugal may be limited.

Thank you in advance!
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post #3574 of 18891
9/28/08 at 5:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by audionewer View Post

if i am not using any graphic card, can i plug one of the tuner on to gfx slot or not.

Yes, you can. The x16 slot can be used for any purpose, graphics, TV tuner, SATA controller etc.
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post #3575 of 18891
9/28/08 at 5:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

excerpts from 07/07/08 posts on page 85
______________________
2. Recommended Systems
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
__________
ATX System
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯
_______
Low-End
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯[*]Case: SilverStone Lascala LC17 SST-LC17B, $105.
_________
Mid-Range
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯[*]Case: Antec Fusion Remote Max, $185.
________
High-End
¯¯¯¯¯¯¯¯[*]Case: Zalman HD160 Plus, $270.

RENETHX - First let me commend you on the extraordinary effort and spectacular system recommendations you have described.

I have been looking for a new full-size case and was wondering if you would comment on the height sizes in your suggested cases in the $100 to $300 range.
6.7" Silverstone $105
4.6" Antec $185
6.3" Zalman $270
I'm just specing out a system and trying to determine present, and cover off future needs. I randomly chose what looked like a large video card, the ASUS EAH4850. It measures 4.37" high. Would I be guessing correctly that other cards might be higher? Is it an issue with such minimal clearances between the card & the case? The Antec looks particularly suspect with less than 1/4" to spare.

In my investigations, I came across some large sized cases from Thermaltake, namely Bach & Mozart models. http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Produc...8&ID=1432#Tab1 The specifications declared that they weren't liquid cooling capable. From that, could we generalize that all similarly sized (desktop) cases are not liquid coolable? My concern is when going to the next level down the road and trying out over-clocking.

I should have stated up front that I want a desktop style case to blend in with my hdtv set-top box & a/v equipment. Have I been answering my own questions and have to go the tower route?
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post #3576 of 18891
9/28/08 at 6:40pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaal View Post

I randomly chose what looked like a large video card, the ASUS EAH4850. It measures 4.37" high. Would I be guessing correctly that other cards might be higher? Is it an issue with such minimal clearances between the card & the case? The Antec looks particularly suspect with less than 1/4" to spare.

In my investigations, I came across some large sized cases from Thermaltake, namely Bach & Mozart models. http://www.thermaltakeusa.com/Produc...8&ID=1432#Tab1 The specifications declared that they weren't liquid cooling capable. From that, could we generalize that all similarly sized (desktop) cases are not liquid coolable? My concern is when going to the next level down the road and trying out over-clocking.

Basically every card is of the same height. Any HD 4850 card fits perfectly even in Antec NSK2480 (5.75" tall).

Liquid cooling is possible with a normal HTPC case. You just have to place a large reservoir and water pump outside the case. The below is Zalman RESERATOR 2:


LL
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post #3577 of 18891
9/28/08 at 7:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

- Smooth video playback: On a par. Acutally Phenom/780G has more power than E5200/G45; CPU usage at playing back Resident Evil: Extinction with TMT with HA off is 100% with E5200/G45, 75% with X3 8450/780G.
- Post-processing: On a par
- Audio: G45 supports multichannel LPCM, while 780G does not. If you use an AVR supporting HDMI, this may be a major drawback of 780G.
- Power consumption: +15W at idle/BD playback with Phenom/780G

A better alternative to Phenom/780G would be Athlon x2/780G/HD 4550 (Hybrid CF) that supports multichannel LPCM (still consumes ~+15W).

Thanks very much renethx - you're knowledge is an amazing asset to us HTPC newbies!
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post #3578 of 18891
9/29/08 at 3:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aslg View Post

Thanks for the picture!
I am planning to install the same heatsink in my P5Q-EM/S16V combo.
Can you please post pictures with the the heatsink fan and the Lite-On Blu-ray DVD ROM installed?
What are your MB/CPU temperatures at idle/load?

Thanks!

I don't own a htpc yet, I found this picture on the net. Here are all the pictures I found of the S16T case.

Configuration
Be Quiet! Dark Power PRO BQT P6-PRO-430W, 430W (ATX12V)
GigaByte GA-P35-DS4
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400
Kingston ValueRAM KVR800D2N5K2/2G 2GB (2x 1GB) DDR2
Lite-ON LH-20A1S 20x (Dual-layer, Retail, Wit)
Samsung Spinpoint F1 HD753LJ, 750GB
Sapphire HD2600XT
Scythe Ninja Mini

Pictures can be found in this thread: http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/...serids]=-Leon-. That is a Dutch Community. (I live in The Netherlands).

The picture of the case with a Lite-On installed can be found at: http://gathering.tweakers.net/forum/...37718#29637718

Hope this helps!
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post #3579 of 18891
9/29/08 at 6:17am
Hi all,

I would to get a recommendation on the component for my HTPC. What I want to do with HTPC is to record HD tv broadcast and to play the recorded on my HTPC. I will use PS3 to play Blue ray disc. Would an intel dual core will be enough for what I want to do? Should I go with quadcore?

My other question is about the motherboard. Looks like most motherboard include integrated graphic. If I use a separate graphic card, how do I disable the one that come with the motherboard? should I just not installed the driver for the chipset?
I also heard that intel G45 is having problem playing 24fps material. If a use a separate graphic card, I should not have that problem. Is that correct?

On another note, has there been an easy way to play ripped blue ray movie on PS3 while the file is on HTPC?

thanks,
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post #3580 of 18891
9/29/08 at 8:03am
Hi guys,

I got 3 questions:

1. Does the discrete Radeon HD4650 fits into the Antec NSK1480 ? How's heat generation with that card in that case?

2. If i'm getting the HD4650, which MB do you recommend? (i won't need 780G chipset)

3. If i use the HD4650, how do i pass the sound to the Amp?

Thanks.

What u think of this article? http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ideo,2030.html
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post #3581 of 18891
9/29/08 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotelmania View Post

I also heard that intel G45 is having problem playing 24fps material. If a use a separate graphic card, I should not have that problem. Is that correct?

It's not having a problem playing 24fps material per se, it's having a problem playing 24fps material at 24Hz TV/monitor refresh (or 23.976Hz).

There are a bunch of threads around regarding 24Hz. Some people are getting it to work on a discrete card, but my impression is it's a crapshoot.
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post #3582 of 18891
9/29/08 at 11:39am
Renethx, could you suggest a mothorboard + CPU alternative to your server build that has 2 onboard 1ghz NICs?

The 20 drive (30tb!) server I am trying to put together will be used solely for streaming multiple concurrent HD movies to HTPCs and MCE extenders. It does not need to do any rendering, ripping, or converting itself. It will only be used 3-4 hours a day, so I plan to use an areca 1280 board to manage the drives and spin them down after 60 minutes of inactivity. To minimize stress on the whole system, I plan to keep it up 24/7, which also means I'd like to find a MoBo + CPU combination that is very thrifty with power while still meeting the overall streaming and reliability objectives of the system. Any suggestions you have would be most welcome.
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post #3583 of 18891
9/29/08 at 11:44am
seems like the geForce 7xxx for intel mATX board does not support dual channel. How important is dual channel? does it make significant difference?
Should I use 1x2 GB module as oppose to 2x1GB module?
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post #3584 of 18891
9/29/08 at 1:33pm
I need your advice on the HTPC system I am building

I have already purchased
Thermaltake DH102 case
Zalman CNPS9500 CPU fan
Enermax MODU82+ 625W (EMD625AWT)

Will like to buy, but need help
Motherboard
GIGABYTE GA-X48-DQ6 ( Will an Asus motherboard be better? If yes, which one? I want a full size board)

Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz Socket 775 (is the best for this system or can I get the next best?)

Graphic card
Radeon HD 4870 X2 (will this fit the Theemaltake DH102?) I am worry about heat and size

CD burner
GGW-H20L (will this fit the Theemaltake DH102 case?)

Sound card
ASUS Xonar HDAV1.3
I will wait until all bugs are worked out

Thank you in advance

Fred
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post #3585 of 18891
9/29/08 at 3:25pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by rotelmania View Post

What I want to do with HTPC is to record HD tv broadcast and to play the recorded on my HTPC. I will use PS3 to play Blue ray disc. Would an intel dual core will be enough for what I want to do? Should I go with quadcore?

My other question is about the motherboard. Looks like most motherboard include integrated graphic. If I use a separate graphic card, how do I disable the one that come with the motherboard? should I just not installed the driver for the chipset?

Dual core is enough.

Just install a discrete graphics card and install the driver for it. Don't install the driver for IGP. That' it. Usually the PCIe slot is the graphics device initialized first.
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post #3586 of 18891
9/29/08 at 3:34pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanylapep View Post

1. Does the discrete Radeon HD4650 fits into the Antec NSK1480 ? How's heat generation with that card in that case?

2. If i'm getting the HD4650, which MB do you recommend? (i won't need 780G chipset)

3. If i use the HD4650, how do i pass the sound to the Amp and the video to the TV (this is more obvious, dvi->hdmi i guess).

Thanks.

What u think of this article? http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...ideo,2030.html

1. No, unless it's low-profile.

2. Basically any mb is OK. Choose mb according to your needs (Intel/AMD, mATX/ATX, available expansion slots, the number of SATA ports, eSATA ports, IEEE 1394 etc.).

3. Yes, use a (ATI-proprietary) DVI-HDMI dongle.
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post #3587 of 18891
9/29/08 at 4:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by eToolGuy View Post

Renethx, could you suggest a mothorboard + CPU alternative to your server build that has 2 onboard 1ghz NICs?

The 20 drive (30tb!) server I am trying to put together will be used solely for streaming multiple concurrent HD movies to HTPCs and MCE extenders. It does not need to do any rendering, ripping, or converting itself. It will only be used 3-4 hours a day, so I plan to use an areca 1280 board to manage the drives and spin them down after 60 minutes of inactivity. To minimize stress on the whole system, I plan to keep it up 24/7, which also means I'd like to find a MoBo + CPU combination that is very thrifty with power while still meeting the overall streaming and reliability objectives of the system. Any suggestions you have would be most welcome.

Actually this type of professional server configurations is not my territory. A couple of desktop mbs with dual Gb LAN and two PCIe x16 slots (x8,x8; one for graphics and the other for the controller) are: ASUS P5Q Premium, GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3R/DS4P/DQ6. Any Intel 45nm dual-core processor should be enough.
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post #3588 of 18891
9/29/08 at 4:30pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by soyuppy View Post

seems like the geForce 7xxx for intel mATX board does not support dual channel. How important is dual channel? does it make significant difference?
Should I use 1x2 GB module as oppose to 2x1GB module?

Dual channel makes difference when playing back HD contents with iGPU and playing 3D applications with iGPU or dGPU. 1x2 GB vs 2x1GB does not matter (a pair of modules are necessary for dual channel).
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post #3589 of 18891
9/29/08 at 4:53pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunshine108j View Post

Will like to buy, but need help
Motherboard
GIGABYTE GA-X48-DQ6 (Will an Asus motherboard be better? If yes, which one? I want a full size board)

Core 2 Quad Q9550 2.83GHz Socket 775 (is the best for this system or can I get the next best?)

Graphic card
Radeon HD 4870 X2 (will this fit the Theemaltake DH102?) I am worry about heat and size

CD burner
GGW-H20L (will this fit the Theemaltake DH102 case?

Basically either brand is OK. Choose the mb of features that best fits your needs. ASUS P5E Deluxe.

Q9550 is very good in performance/price.

The card length is 10.5 in + power connector (perhaps it fits DH102 if you don't install a HDD in the innermost place). You shouldn't worry about heat. The heat from GPU is exhausted from the card's second slot.

LG drive should fit.
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post #3590 of 18891
9/30/08 at 3:09am
I found some reviews for the HD4550 (GDDR3):

http://www.guru3d.com/article/ati-ra...-512mb-review/
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Ha...eviews/hd4550/
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/h...adeon_hd_4550/
http://hothardware.com/Articles/ATI-...get-DX101-GPU/
http://www.techpowerup.com/index.php?72688

An article about the Perfect HTPC GPU:
http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3420
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post #3591 of 18891
9/30/08 at 5:03am
First - this is amazing thread and i appreciate all the hard work and time that has gone into it. I have read and re-read the thread and have "built" a wishlist system on Newegg. My questions are as follows:

If I want to play all my music (encoded at high bit rate MP3 and currently using ITunes with a dock) on my HT via a new HTPC and wanting to foray into Blueray, would the following system be overkill or am I missing something?

ASUS M3A78-T AM2+/AM2 AMD 790GX HDMI ATX AMD Motherboard
AMD Phenom 9600 Agena 2.3GHz Socket AM2+ 95W Quad-Core
Corsair 520HS PS
Silverstone LC-17 case
4Gig 1066 ram (ocz or other)
Seagate 7200.11 500G HG
LG Black LG Blu-ray/HD DVD-ROM GGC-H20LK
2 - Scythe SY1225SL12L 120mm "Slipstream" Case Fans
Scythe SCSK-1000 100mm "SHURIKEN" CPU Cooler
Anyware GP-IR01BK Windows Vista Infrared MCE Black Remote Control
Windows Vista Home Premium

Do I need a discreet video card to do the blueray playback well?

How will the audio side of the equation work - I am much more interested in good audio than anything to start - can always upgrade video if need be?

Is there a way I can save a bit of cash and do what I would like to do effectively? Would an Intel based option be a better place to look?

Does it make sense to look at something like the ACER X1200 and just buy a nice blueray player to put in the system?

FYI - I have a newer Samsung DLP 50" display and a bunch of high end Denon hardware so if the non-pc-blueray option is best it would be somethin glike a Denon DVD 2500 or equivalent.

I have been researching this for a while and want to move on a purchase soon, but as all of you well know, there are just so many dang choices and decisions?

Thanks in advance for the replies and for all the great work again.

Jason
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post #3592 of 18891
9/30/08 at 5:41am
its the 30th , waiting for newegg to show the 4550 in their inventory so i can purchase my next htpc system

one a side note, you don't need a receiver to use the HDMI sound from the 4550 right? i can connect the hdmi right to my tv?

thanks
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post #3593 of 18891
9/30/08 at 6:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by <><</strong> View Post

its the 30th , waiting for newegg to show the 4550 in their inventory so i can purchase my next htpc system

one a side note, you don't need a receiver to use the HDMI sound from the 4550 right? i can connect the hdmi right to my tv?

thanks

You are correct (if you ask me). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI
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post #3594 of 18891
9/30/08 at 6:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackLash83 View Post

You are correct (if you ask me). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDMI

But what if i want to pass the sound from the HD4550 to my Amp, what do i do?
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post #3595 of 18891
9/30/08 at 6:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by vanylapep View Post

But what if i want to pass the sound from the HD4550 to my Amp, what do i do?

Sorry what is an Amp? Do you mean receiver?
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post #3596 of 18891
9/30/08 at 6:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BackLash83 View Post

Sorry what is an Amp? Do you mean receiver?

I second that question. Also asked that in another thread. Is there a way to just have HDMI Audio sent from the videocard to the receiver and video sent to the projector via a splitter or other means? I am reluctant to use a passthrough from the receiver to the projector.
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post #3597 of 18891
9/30/08 at 6:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nima View Post

I second that question. Also asked that in another thread. Is there a way to just have HDMI Audio sent from the videocard to the receiver and video sent to the projector via a splitter or other means? I am reluctant to use a passthrough from the receiver to the projector.

I guess you have to use a HDMI 1.3 splitter. A quick search gave me this link: http://sewelldirect.com/Gefen-1x5-HD...-Amplifier.asp

An other option is available if your tv has audio out options.
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post #3598 of 18891
9/30/08 at 7:46am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goormove View Post

Do I need a discreet video card to do the blueray playback well?

How will the audio side of the equation work - I am much more interested in good audio than anything to start - can always upgrade video if need be?

Is there a way I can save a bit of cash and do what I would like to do effectively? Would an Intel based option be a better place to look?

Does it make sense to look at something like the ACER X1200 and just buy a nice blueray player to put in the system?

As for video, no. For audio, the onboard chip supports only stereo LPCM, DD and DTS. If you want 7.1/5.1 LPCM, you need a discrete video card. Right now HD 4550/4650/4750/4850 are recommended.

You can choose a cheaper AMD 780G mb such as GA-MA78G-DS3H ($87; the difference is slower graphics core and no RAID 5 support). If you are going to add a discrete card, you can go with Intel. See my low-end or mid-range ATX Intel/Intel system.

Acer X1200 is good for BD playback and supports 7.1 (no 5.1) LPCM. Phenom is recommended, however.
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post #3599 of 18891
9/30/08 at 8:44am
I am patiently waiting for someone to be selling the HD 4550 card.
If anyone finds it available please post.
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post #3600 of 18891
9/30/08 at 8:48am
/me points to renethx

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelG View Post

I am patiently waiting for someone to be selling the HD 4550 card.
If anyone finds it available please post.
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