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Guide to Building a HTPC, Workstation and Server - Page 14

post #391 of 18891
11/27/07 at 5:29pm
Thread Starter 
autoidiot

-Pentium Dual-Core 2140 1.6GHz is enough for a media server.
-DG965WH is good. If you don't need much expandability, GA-G33M-DS2R is better in that it supports up to 6 drives in a RAID array (and overclocks well).
-RAID1 for the boot drive is not so useful.
-500GB is better for storage, isn't it?
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post #392 of 18891
11/27/07 at 5:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrandtx View Post

Any reason you're going for the 965 motherboards? I'm strongly leaning towards G33 for its low power (since this thing will be on for 24 hours a day), and as a bonus, it has the ability with an ADD2/SDVO card to have digital t.v. output (abet not the highest quality, per archibael comments on G35 improvements)

G35 > G965 > G33 for picture quality. You're right, though: G33 is better from a power standpoint.

The G965WH board is decent; I have its smaller brother the G965OT. Marc is right about overclocking the thing, but if you're keeping everything at stock it's very happy-making. I bought the ADD2 HDMI card for it and with some quirks it works well.
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post #393 of 18891
11/27/07 at 6:16pm
Hi All, this is pretty helpful threads. I've been making my decision base on what has been discussed here.

I decided to go with mATX board since I won't need to have that many expansion slot. 2 PCI is enough for me. 1 for my audio card and 1 for my Win HD card. So I got this motherboard, basically sticking with the G33 chipset. MSI G33M-FI LGA 775 Intel G33 Micro ATX.

I have been looking at what CPU to get and right now leaning toward this Allendale E2180 which is 2.0Ghz with 800 Mhz FSB & 1MB cache. If I want to oc this as suggested in the 1st page, will this cpu/mobo combo oc'able? Have anyone tried? If I can get it to 2.6 or 2.8 Ghz and then pair my video card with either 8500GT/8600GT/2600PRO, then I should be set. I don't have any plan for game, this HTPC will mostly be used for watching DVD and TV via OTA thru the Win HVR. It will also be front end for music using Foobar 2K thru RME-audio card.
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post #394 of 18891
11/28/07 at 9:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by archibael View Post

G35 > G965 > G33 for picture quality. You're right, though: G33 is better from a power standpoint.

...

Really the g965 is better than the g33 for picture quality? In what respects?
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post #395 of 18891
11/28/07 at 12:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by watjac92 View Post

Really the g965 is better than the g33 for picture quality? In what respects?

The Quick Reference Guide to Intel Integrated Graphics shows most of the differences. Things that jump out to me: better de-interlacing and video scaling, as well as having sharpness/detail and noise reduction.

BTW archibael, is the MPEG-2 decoding support correct on table 2 for the G33? Does it really have all three hardware assist (iDCT, Motion compensation and VLD)?

Marc
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post #396 of 18891
11/28/07 at 1:04pm
That is my understanding, yes. I'd be lying if I said I have access to the microcode to verify, though.
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post #397 of 18891
11/28/07 at 11:21pm
Thermalright doesn't list XFX boards in their compatability charts. is that ok for the Thermalright Ultra 120 extreme & the XFX nForce 680i SLI MB-N680-ISH9?
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post #398 of 18891
11/29/07 at 1:15am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftheaded View Post

Thermalright doesn't list XFX boards in their compatability charts. is that ok for the Thermalright Ultra 120 extreme & the XFX nForce 680i SLI MB-N680-ISH9?

Ultra 120 Extreme is compatible with the XFX 680i SLI board because XFX 680i SLI = eVGA 680i SLI = the 680i SLI reference board.
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post #399 of 18891
11/29/07 at 11:14am
FYI, Anandtech has published it's list of recommended HTPC components under its Holiday Buying Guide. There is some overlap, but also many differences.
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post #400 of 18891
12/1/07 at 8:34am
Building the HDD System I Server
I've finally got everything installed into the box and running but I'm having an issue with the Highpoint 2340 card and Windows XP MCE only recognizing the Raid 5 drive at 2TB, when in reality it is set up with 9 500gb SATA drives. One drive is a "spare" so the remaining 8 drives show up as 3.5TB in the Highpoint Management software and in the bios utility.

But when I go through Windows->Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer Management->Disk Management the total size of the drive only shows up at 2TB (2048gb). Can anyone help me to understand why???

I've called Tech Support at Highpoint but apparently they are not answering their phones during "normal business hours" as listed on their website. 9am-6pm PST.

Also, I wanted to add a couple notes on the server install:
1) There are a TON of cables to fit in this box. I only have 9 HDD + 1 system drive but still had difficulty fitting all the cables in.
2) The LIan LI HDD expander modules work well except that one of the drives interferes with the internal HDD "cage" on the Aerocool case. I suspect that if you were trying to put 15 drives in this case, it would be very difficult without modifying the case using a dremel.
3) With all the cables in this box, I had to remove the side airflow fans (x3) b/c I couldn't get the sides of the case on with the fans in place.
4) I'm heading out to Japan on business tomorrow morning but when I return I'll try and post some pix of the install.
5) Even with 5 80mm fans, the CPU fan, and a 120mm exhaust fan, this case runs surprisingly very quiet. Not as quiet as a silent HTPC, but definitely much quieter than I had anticipated :-)

I think I'm going to be very happy with this server once I get everything up and running and can get the 2TB drive problem in Windows fixed.

Thanks renethx for putting together this thread!

Again, if someone has any ideas on the 2TB drive recognition issue, it would be greatly appreciated.
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post #401 of 18891
12/1/07 at 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by spillz564 View Post

Building the HDD System I Server
I've finally got everything installed into the box and running but I'm having an issue with the Highpoint 2340 card and Windows XP MCE only recognizing the Raid 5 drive at 2TB, when in reality it is set up with 9 500gb SATA drives. One drive is a "spare" so the remaining 8 drives show up as 3.5TB in the Highpoint Management software and in the bios utility.

But when I go through Windows->Control Panel->Admin Tools->Computer Management->Disk Management the total size of the drive only shows up at 2TB (2048gb). Can anyone help me to understand why???

I've called Tech Support at Highpoint but apparently they are not answering their phones during "normal business hours" as listed on their website. 9am-6pm PST.

Also, I wanted to add a couple notes on the server install:
1) There are a TON of cables to fit in this box. I only have 9 HDD + 1 system drive but still had difficulty fitting all the cables in.
2) The LIan LI HDD expander modules work well except that one of the drives interferes with the internal HDD "cage" on the Aerocool case. I suspect that if you were trying to put 15 drives in this case, it would be very difficult without modifying the case using a dremel.
3) With all the cables in this box, I had to remove the side airflow fans (x3) b/c I couldn't get the sides of the case on with the fans in place.
4) I'm heading out to Japan on business tomorrow morning but when I return I'll try and post some pix of the install.
5) Even with 5 80mm fans, the CPU fan, and a 120mm exhaust fan, this case runs surprisingly very quiet. Not as quiet as a silent HTPC, but definitely much quieter than I had anticipated :-)

I think I'm going to be very happy with this server once I get everything up and running and can get the 2TB drive problem in Windows fixed.

Thanks renethx for putting together this thread!

Again, if someone has any ideas on the 2TB drive recognition issue, it would be greatly appreciated.

Is it a basic volume? If so, 2 TB is the limit - http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...storfacts.mspx

Did you break it up into logical volumes? I assume you don't want a single 3.5 TB C: drive? Making a small 8-12 GB OS volume, then larger media volumes would be more efficient, both in usage (cluster size) and restoration in the event something gets damaged or corrupted.
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post #402 of 18891
12/1/07 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianley View Post

Is it a basic volume? If so, 2 TB is the limit - http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...storfacts.mspx

Did you break it up into logical volumes? I assume you don't want a single 3.5 TB C: drive? Making a small 8-12 GB OS volume, then larger media volumes would be more efficient, both in usage (cluster size) and restoration in the event something gets damaged or corrupted.

I didn't break it up. I wanted a single 3.5TB drive but I guess I could split it up into a 2tb drive and a 1.5tb drive.

The max size makes sense, thanks.

I guess I'm going to have to figure a few more things out. I'm hoping I can still use one spare drive to cover both the 2tb and 1.5tb drives that I'll be setting up right?

I've got a separate 80gb drive for the system drive. Would I be better off putting the system files on the Raid array?

Thanks for the assistance, I haven't set up a Raid array before.
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post #403 of 18891
12/1/07 at 1:06pm
Renethx,
In your high-end system you mention Gigabyte DS4 and ATI Radeon 3850. However, the mobo features PCI Express x16 and x1 slots while the GPUs all seem to use PCIe 2.0. Am I missing something?
Thanks
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post #404 of 18891
12/1/07 at 2:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by spillz564 View Post

I didn't break it up. I wanted a single 3.5TB drive but I guess I could split it up into a 2tb drive and a 1.5tb drive.

The max size makes sense, thanks.

I guess I'm going to have to figure a few more things out. I'm hoping I can still use one spare drive to cover both the 2tb and 1.5tb drives that I'll be setting up right?

I've got a separate 80gb drive for the system drive. Would I be better off putting the system files on the Raid array?

Thanks for the assistance, I haven't set up a Raid array before.

Since you're configuring a single RAID 5 via the card, then yes, the 1 parity drive would cover however many logical drives you created within the big RAID 5. You could use the additional 80 GB drive for the OS, (assuming you have the physical connections) but there's no harm in putting it on a small volume on the RAID array. You certainly don't need 80 GB for the OS...

While it can be nice to have all that space accessible via a single drive letter, what happens when you want to upgrade to Vista in the future? Will you blow away the entire partition and start over? Keeping a separate small partition for the OS allows you to easily reinstall, upgrade, fix any virus / worm damage, etc without risking the TBs of media files it sounds like you're going to have on this system.
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post #405 of 18891
12/1/07 at 3:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianley View Post

Since you're configuring a single RAID 5 via the card, then yes, the 1 parity drive would cover however many logical drives you created within the big RAID 5. You could use the additional 80 GB drive for the OS, (assuming you have the physical connections) but there's no harm in putting it on a small volume on the RAID array. You certainly don't need 80 GB for the OS...

While it can be nice to have all that space accessible via a single drive letter, what happens when you want to upgrade to Vista in the future? Will you blow away the entire partition and start over? Keeping a separate small partition for the OS allows you to easily reinstall, upgrade, fix any virus / worm damage, etc without risking the TBs of media files it sounds like you're going to have on this system.

Very helpful, thanks. All the arrays I had seen in the past used a separate drive for the OS, so I had assumed (apparently incorrectly) it wasn't possible to put the OS on the array.

I think I'll keep the OS on the 80gb drive (attached to the mobo via sata) since I already have everything loaded.

It looks like I'll need to rebuild the Raid5 to set up a 2TB drive and a 1.5TB drive. Even though I'm not adding the OS to the array at this time, do you think I should set aside some space for one (on the raid) in the future? Maybe 50-100gb or so?
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post #406 of 18891
12/1/07 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by spillz564 View Post

Very helpful, thanks. All the arrays I had seen in the past used a separate drive for the OS, so I had assumed (apparently incorrectly) it wasn't possible to put the OS on the array.

I think I'll keep the OS on the 80gb drive (attached to the mobo via sata) since I already have everything loaded.

It looks like I'll need to rebuild the Raid5 to set up a 2TB drive and a 1.5TB drive. Even though I'm not adding the OS to the array at this time, do you think I should set aside some space for one (on the raid) in the future? Maybe 50-100gb or so?

If you have to blow away the current config to modify it, then sure, I'd leave 50 GB for a potential future OS partition. I don't think you'll miss it that much in a 3.5 TB system, and worse case you could always use it for additional data storage if you didn't go the OS route.
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post #407 of 18891
12/1/07 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by brianley View Post

If you have to blow away the current config to modify it, then sure, I'd leave 50 GB for a potential future OS partition. I don't think you'll miss it that much in a 3.5 TB system, and worse case you could always use it for additional data storage if you didn't go the OS route.

So far, I think I need to delete the array so I'll leave space for a future OS of about 50gig or so. Thanks for the suggestion.
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post #408 of 18891
12/1/07 at 6:07pm
Thread Starter 
spillz564

I am sorry to hear that you have several problems. Windows XP 32-bit has the 2TB limit and I should mention this somewhere in the guide. Somebody claimed the OS supports over 2TB with dynamic volumes (there is no definite confirmation though). Read this thread: A few questions about Media Servers.... Windows Vista (32-bit or 64-bit) supports over 2TB with no problem.

Certainly cramming 16 drives (and a system drive) in the AeroCool case is not easy and needs some DIY work. I hope I am able to pick up this server system in the Assembling Guide.
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post #409 of 18891
12/1/07 at 6:13pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishflake View Post

Renethx,
In your high-end system you mention Gigabyte DS4 and ATI Radeon 3850. However, the mobo features PCI Express x16 and x1 slots while the GPUs all seem to use PCIe 2.0. Am I missing something?
Thanks

PCI Express 2.0 is backward compatible with PCI Express 1.x, so graphic cards and motherboards designed for v2.0 work fine with v1.x and vice versa. So far Intel X38 is the only chipset (for the Intel platform) that supports PCI Express 2.0, but there is little difference in graphics performance between X38 and P35.
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post #410 of 18891
12/1/07 at 6:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

spillz564

I am sorry to hear that you have several problems. Windows XP 32-bit has the 2TB limit and I should mention this somewhere in the guide. Somebody claimed the OS supports over 2TB with dynamic volumes (there is no definite confirmation though). Read this thread: A few questions about Media Servers.... Windows Vista (32-bit or 64-bit) supports over 2TB with no problem.

Certainly cramming 16 drives (and a system drive) in the AeroCool case is not easy and needs some DIY work. I hope I am able to pick up this server system in the Assembling Guide.

I wouldn't have even gotten to this point without the help from your thread, and the people who have posted on it. It has been a (fun) learning experience so far. Like anything, the more a person plays, the more they learn.

Hopefully 9 500gb drives will hold me over for quite some time

I'll worry about how to fit in the other 6 somewhere down the road

btw, I did try converting the array to a dynamic drive but still couldn't get anything over 2TB recognized.

Thanks for the link, I'll check it out...
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post #411 of 18891
12/2/07 at 11:27pm
is there are difference between the XFX MB-N680-ISH and the ISH9 as recommened here?

or is this a syntax/typo issue with the particular etailer?
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post #412 of 18891
12/3/07 at 12:40am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftheaded View Post

is there are difference between the XFX MB-N680-ISH and the ISH9 as recommened here?

or is this a syntax/typo issue with the particular etailer?

I am not sure. I guess they are identical. Part Number at this page is MB-N680-ISH9, while Part Number in the Product Sheet (PDF file) is MB-N680-ISH. I sent an inquiry to XFX.

Note that nForce 680i does not support the upcoming Yorkfield (45 nm quad-core) processors.
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post #413 of 18891
12/3/07 at 1:12am
Thread Starter 
Good and bad news. According to OCWorkBench, AMD RS780 (780G; supporting UVD) is expected in January 2008, while NVIDIA MCP78 (supporting PureVideo HD) will be delayed till March 2008.

Related news are:

OCWorkBench – AMD RS780 integrated chipset supports UVD, PCIe and DDR2/3 (December 3, 2007) (RV610 = Radeon HD 2400)

OCWorkBench – NVIDIA MCP78 photos leaked at China site (December 1, 2007)
OCWorkBench – NVIDIA MCP78 Preview (November 2, 2007)

Of course, details are also found in Appendix in this guide!
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post #414 of 18891
12/3/07 at 6:12am
Cheers for that info. Hopefully RS780 will be what RS690(690G) so nearly was. A solution thats does HD from disc without just missing the mark and being able to use a nice low power cpu.
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post #415 of 18891
12/3/07 at 11:29am
Hi Renethx...

I contributed to both the hardware and software side on Troy's thread, but finally decided to do my own thing, at least initially... may still try a bluepill install. I went premium because this will also be used for HD video editing:

CPU: Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz
Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-P35-DS4
Memory: Crucial Ballistix DDR2-800 2 x 1GB
Graphics Card: Asus SilentPipe EN8600GTS (No Fan)
HDD0: WD Raptor 150GB 10,000RPM
HDD1: Hitachi DeskStar 1TB
Case: Antec P182
PSU: Antec Phantom 500w (fan only when needed)
CPU Cooler: Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme
CPU Fan: ?????

My question concerns cooling.

What I like about the Antec case is that it has separate chambers for the PSU/HDDs and the boards. There are two fans sucking air directly from the motherboard/CPU (one back and one up). I'm adding an optional fan that will blow across the GPU cooling fins and out the back. What I am questioning is whether, with two fans dedicated to getting the hot air off the cpu heatsink and out of the case, does a fan on the heatsink make sense? Is it really needed? I'd rather keep the mechanical vibrations on the case instead of on the electronics. Does anyone go with radient-only cooling on the processor?

TIA... and you do phenomenal work.
--
Jim
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post #416 of 18891
12/3/07 at 5:30pm
Thread Starter 
AZdigital

Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme is not good for passive cooling. It is designed to work with a high air pressure. Scythe Ninja Plus is a better option (designed to work with a low air pressure). Unless you overclock Q6600, perhaps Ninja Plus without a fan is fine. You can always add a fan later if necessary.

From Silent PC Review – Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme: Heir to the CPU Cooling Throne (October 12, 2007):

Quote:
There are really only two serious competitors: The Ultra-120 and the Scythe Ninja. Both heatsinks were tested previously with the same reference fan on the same heatsink testing platform, so direct comparisons can be made. The Ultra-120 eXtreme surpasses its predecessor by about 3°C at all four fan voltage levels. It can't quite compete with the Ninja with the reference fan at 5V, but this is only a useful comparison if you are considering passive cooling, as the noise difference between 5V and 7V is indistinguishable from all but the closest of distances. The Ultra-120 eXtreme really starts to shine at 7V where it matches the Ninja's performance, before overtaking it at 9V and 12V. The extra airflow definitely helps the transfer of heat through the relatively tight fin spacing.
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post #417 of 18891
12/3/07 at 5:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

AZdigital

Thermalright Ultra-120 Extreme is not good for passive cooling. It is designed to work with a high air pressure. Scythe Ninja Plus is a better option (designed to work with a low air pressure). Unless you overclock Q6600, perhaps Ninja Plus without a fan is fine. You can always add a fan later if necessary.

FYI, the Thermalright HR-01 Plus is similar to the Ultra-120 Extreme, and is apparently designed for fanless operation. It's odd to me that the Extreme is actually quite a bit larger than the Plus, and therefore would seem to me to be better for fanless operation, but I'm not a mechanical engineer so what do I know. Perhaps the fin spacing is tighter on the Extreme and therefore it requires a fan.

BTW, I have the Plus without a fan on the E6850 (3GHz), along with a fanless ATI HD2600XT and an Antec case with a single low-speed fan, and haven't had any heat problems yet. At 100% utilization I'm still below the CPU thermal limits - not a lot, but enough.
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post #418 of 18891
12/3/07 at 6:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyFunBoater View Post

Perhaps the fin spacing is tighter on the Extreme and therefore it requires a fan.

Yeah, that's the point. I am not a mechanical engineer, though.
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post #419 of 18891
12/3/07 at 6:27pm
Hi
Can anyone recommend a graphic card for the mATX board? I need one that would best fit my mATX board. A fanless one that does not intrude and take over the next PCI slot or interfere with the DIMM slot. Preferably staying in the 8500/8600/or 2600 areas
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post #420 of 18891
12/3/07 at 6:44pm
Thread Starter 
soyuppy

There are several fanless 8500 GT cards from ASUS, GIGABYTE and XFX that occupy only one slot.

ASUS EN8500GT SILENT/HTP/256M
ASUS EN8500GT SILENT MAGIC/HTP/512M
GIGABYTE GV-NX85T256H
GIGABYTE GV-NX85T512HP
XFX GeForce 8500 GT PV-T86J-UAHG

The following models (8600 GT, 2600 XT respectively) do not fit in Antec NSK2480/Fusion (one-slot models, but too high):

GIGABYTE GV-NX86T256H
GIGABYTE GV-RX26T256H
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