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Guide to Building a HTPC, Workstation and Server - Page 177

post #5281 of 18891
1/4/09 at 7:50pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by heaphus View Post

OK, I did some checking at Newegg, and I have a few more questions.

1. There are two 4550s that list "HDTV Out". I assume this means component. Unfortunately, neither specifically mentions that a component dongle is included. Do these cards typically come with the dongle?

2. The two suitable 4550s are from Sapphire and Powercolor. Any preference on these manufacturers?

3. There are also suitable 4650s and 4670s. Do either of these give any advantage over the 4550 with a single display, particularly in regards to SD?

4. As for a motherboard, I'm planning to go AMD. Should I just get a 780g, or should I go for something without onboard graphics? Any particular mATX recommendations?

5. For the processor, I'm thinking about the 5050e. Does this chip have the grunt to handle everything that I may run into, that may not support hardware acceleration? Also, assuming good case ventilation, can this chip be passively cooled? If so, which heatsink?

Well, maybe that's more than a few questions, but that should give me enough to chew on for now. Thanks.

Go for Sapphire HD 4550. PowerColor does not come with a component cable and you have to buy it.

If you don't know what to choose, just build the mATX low-end AMD/AMD system at page 85. If you want passive cooling for CPU, NSK2480 (or Fusion Remote)+Scythe Ninja Mini is recommended.
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post #5282 of 18891
1/4/09 at 7:58pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfuz View Post

I don't intend on playing BluRays .... for now...
You mentioned using MPC-HC with its own hd264 decoder (for hardware acceleration of the GPU I guess?)
Yet as far as I know, using FFDshow DISABLES hardware acceleration...

So I'm confused...

Edit: what is PQ?

Precisely speaking ffdshow does not call DXVA. Some mkv files do not work with GPU HA (check this post). For such files, ffdshow may work better. PQ is picture quality.
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post #5283 of 18891
1/4/09 at 8:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_aristides View Post

OK, so after a lot of brain storming last night I have put together the following system based on the advice given:

(PER.650682) THERMALTAKE VF7000BNS DH101 BLACK
(PER.558272) INTEL CORE 2 DUO E7400 2.80 GHZ LGA775 - 1066 FSB - BOX
(PER.650336) ASUS ARCTIC SQUARE
(PER.555306) OCZ OCZ2F8004GK 4GB (2X2GB) PC2-6400 800MHZ HIGH PERFORMANCE FATAL1TY EDITION DUAL CHANNEL KIT
(PER.526763) GIGABYTE GA-EP45-DS3L
(PER.513371) ASUS EAH4550/DI/512MD3 512MB PCI-E RETAIL
(PER.301637) SEAGATE BARRACUDA 7200.11 ST3320613AS 320GB SATA2
(PER.700154) POWER INNOVATOR 450W P4 BULK
(PER.650625) THERMALTAKE A2450 CYCLO 120MM BLUE PATTERN FAN

Actually I have downgraded the case and CPU and added the suggested ones. As I described in my previous posts my main aims is to play:

1. High quality music, including an AVR Denon 2308
2. High quality movies
3. Once in a while games

Do you think using the E7xxx will have any obvious disadvantages from the E8500 and the Quad series in relation to the usage I am aiming for?

Moreover Renethx the difference in price of Case Thermaltake 7000 from 7001 is 60 euros more...do you think I should go for the more expensive one i.e. given that I will have a TV attached to the system with the latest media players installed will I need the extra feature of the 7001 which is the media kit?

On the same subject of the case and mb do you tink I will have any expandability issues with relation to slots provided?

I am attaching a word file with the components with links to the provider side

Thank you

Mike

I would look at the EP45-UD series (there is a L, P and R version I believe.)
This is a newer and better built motherboard with the same specs, UD=ultra dirable which is more copper (cooler) in the motherboard construction.
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post #5284 of 18891
1/4/09 at 8:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

Thanks for pointing out a mistake in the feature table. I corrected it. An ATI discrete card is the best in PQ. The mATX/ATX low-end AMD/AMD system is the cheapest system that offers the best PQ in both SD and HD. 430W is enough.

I saw in your other post, if 24p is important, then not to go with AMD/AMD low-end. Does that only apply for bluray discs - regular HD videos will play at 24p fine (output via HDMI)? (I am getting a PS3 and don't care about bluray in my htpc.)

Also, if I wanted to add DVR functionality for getting over-the-air stuff - would the low-end AMD/AMD be able to handle recording those while playing something (say, a 1080p MKV) - or would I want a higher-end system?

Thanks, as usual!
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post #5285 of 18891
1/4/09 at 8:30pm
Renethx,

A few questions about your lowend AMD/NVIDIA build as suggested on page 85.

1) ASUS M3N78-EM (GF8300) vs GigaByte GA-M78SM-S2H (GF8200)
If the GF8200 was picked, how much worse would the HDTV and 1080p MKV playback be? Or would it have no effect?

GigaByte GA-M78SM-S2H seems to have all the goodies, is there some key parts that I'm missing?

2) The HDTV title in the chart followed by the caption: "Picture quality of 1080i contents when post processing is done by the GPU". How does this caption differ from MKV? How can the AMD/Nvidia do "excellent" smooth mkv 1080p playback, but "good" quality 1080i HDTV?

3) In the lowend Intel/NVIDIA build, you put DDL, and in the low-end AMD/NVIDIA, you classified it as "good". So my question is, are the builds labeled with DDL/DTSI (I don't really know what thse are besides something to do with Dolby )do something more than the builds labeled as "good", or are the builds labeled 'good', better than the builds labeled with DDL/DTSI?
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post #5286 of 18891
1/4/09 at 8:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by skokefoe View Post

I saw in your other post, if 24p is important, then not to go with AMD/AMD low-end. Does that only apply for bluray discs - regular HD videos will play at 24p fine (output via HDMI)? (I am getting a PS3 and don't care about bluray in my htpc.)

Also, if I wanted to add DVR functionality for getting over-the-air stuff - would the low-end AMD/AMD be able to handle recording those while playing something (say, a 1080p MKV) - or would I want a higher-end system?

Not sure about 24p for other HD contents. Recording is not CPU intensive so playing mkv at the same time should be fine (no guarantee though).
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post #5287 of 18891
1/4/09 at 8:45pm
sorry if off topic but any recommendations or thoughts on using an intel atom processor based machine for playback?
Or a netbook machine for hd playback? I am traveling quite a bit lately and really like the low weight associated with these machines.....
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post #5288 of 18891
1/4/09 at 9:12pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by nfuz View Post

1) ASUS M3N78-EM (GF8300) vs GigaByte GA-M78SM-S2H (GF8200)
If the GF8200 was picked, how much worse would the HDTV and 1080p MKV playback be? Or would it have no effect?

GigaByte GA-M78SM-S2H seems to have all the goodies, is there some key parts that I'm missing?

2) The HDTV title in the chart followed by the caption: "Picture quality of 1080i contents when post processing is done by the GPU". How does this caption differ from MKV? How can the AMD/Nvidia do "excellent" smooth mkv 1080p playback, but "good" quality 1080i HDTV?

3) In the lowend Intel/NVIDIA build, you put DDL, and in the low-end AMD/NVIDIA, you classified it as "good". So my question is, are the builds labeled with DDL/DTSI (I don't really know what thse are besides something to do with Dolby )do something more than the builds labeled as "good", or are the builds labeled 'good', better than the builds labeled with DDL/DTSI?

If you use Phenom or Athlon X2 7750 (HT 3.0), GeForce 8200/8300 can handle 1080i/p fine.

i (interlaced) and p (progressive) are fundamentally different. 1080i is 1920x1080 contents shot by video cameras with 60 fields per second. GPU has to compose a complete frame from two fields by advanced deinterlacing (not just weaving or bob; spacial-temporal deinterlacing in NVIDIA term and vecotor adaptive deinterlacing in AMD term) and produce 30 frames per second. I still see more jaggies with GeForce 8200/8300 than other perfect solutions such as GeForce 9300/9400. That's the reason why I didn't give "Excellent". On the other hand playing back 1080p (films, 24 frames per second) is straightforward; just decode the contents smoothly (without dropping frames) and send to the display in in 1:1 pixel mapping. There is another kind of 1080i: film-based 1080i for which inverse telecine is essential. I leave the details to the article Progressive Scan DVD, the best online article on this subject; it's about SD, but the same priciple applies to HD.

As for S/PDIF, it's not "good" but "supported" (every motherboard's onboard audio supports S/PDIF). DDL (DTSI) is a real-time DD (DTS) encoder: every multichannel LPCM source is encoded into DD or DTS in real-time and sent over S/PDIF. This is convenient (but not essential because PowerDVD/TMT has a built-in DD or DTS encoder) if your AVR does not support HDMI so that you can't send multichannel LPCM.
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post #5289 of 18891
1/4/09 at 9:32pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrybadman View Post

sorry if off topic but any recommendations or thoughts on using an intel atom processor based machine for playback?
Or a netbook machine for hd playback? I am traveling quite a bit lately and really like the low weight associated with these machines.....

Atom (Netbook/Nettop) is fixed to the 945G chipset (right now), meaning crappy HD playback. 720p may be OK though.
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post #5290 of 18891
1/4/09 at 10:17pm
First of all great thread!!!

I was asked by a family member to build new HTPC. After reading this thread seems like Low-End Intel/Intel fits his budget.
I've added Blu-ray player
  • CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5200 2.50GHz Socket 775, $84.
  • CPU Cooler (Optional): Scythe SHURIKEN SCSK-1000, $30.
  • Motherboard: ASUS P5Q-EM Intel G45 chipset microATX, $135.
  • Memory: A-DATA ADQVE1A16K DDR2-800 2 x 1GB Kit, $25.
  • Graphics Card: GMA X4500HD (integrated in the motherboard chipset), $0.
  • HDD: Western Digital WD6400AAKS 640GB SATA, $70.
  • PSU: 80 PLUS 350W ATX PSU (included in the case), $0
  • Case: Antec NSK1480, $95.
  • Blu-ray HD DVD-Rom: LG GGC-H20LK, $115

Question is about case, newegg.com does not carry it anymore, I can get it somewhere else but are there any other choices?
I would like to stay under $100 and preferebly from a well known brand.

If I go with NSK1480 will down the road if needed:
1) be able to add any graphic card (if he has problem playing BD)?
2) be able to ad TV tuner card?
3) being that this is slim case with the above doubts should I go with regular MicroATX ?
4) With the above setup there should zero problems playing rented BD movies?

Thanks for reading!
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post #5291 of 18891
1/4/09 at 10:23pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by micko_escalade View Post

Question is about case, newegg.com does not carry it anymore, I can get it somewhere else but are there any other choices?
I would like to stay under $100 and preferebly from a well known brand.

If I go with NSK1480 will down the road if needed:
1) be able to add any graphic card (if he has problem playing BD)?
2) be able to ad TV tuner card?
3) being that this is slim case with the above doubts should I go with regular MicroATX ?
4) With the above setup there should zero problems playing rented BD movies?

NSK1480 is a low-profile case. So it supports only low-profile expansion cards. For maximum compatibility, go for NSK2480. Playing BD (rented or not) is fine, but no guarantee that there is zero problem (with whatever system).
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post #5292 of 18891
1/4/09 at 10:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

NSK1480 is a low-profile case. So it supports only low-profile expansion cards. For maximum compatibility, go for NSK2480. Playing BD (rented or not) is fine, but no guarantee that there is zero problem (with whatever system).

Thanks for the reply!

I'll go with your suggestion.
Since CPU Cooler is optional, will stock one be o.k. ?
All this HTPC will be used is for playing movies (BD, divx), pictures etc. No games.
Maybe down the road adding TV tuner card to record TV shows, depending how he likes it
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post #5293 of 18891
1/4/09 at 10:35pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by micko_escalade View Post

Thanks for the reply!

Since CPU Cooler is optional, will stock one be o.k. ?
All this HTPC will be used is for playing movies (BD, divx), pictures etc. No games.
Maybe down the road adding TV tuner card to record TV shows, depending how he likes it

Yes, the stock cooler is fine.
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post #5294 of 18891
1/4/09 at 11:07pm
I think I'm finally biting the bullet and building a dedicated HTPC. I've come up with a parts list refined from the Low-End Intel/NVIDIA build.

System
  • CPU: Pentium Dual-Core E5200 2.50GHz Socket 775, $84.
  • Motherboard: GIGABYTE GA-E7AUM-DS2H GeForce 9400 and nForce 730i chipset microATX, $135.
  • Memory: Kingston KVR800D2N6K2/4G DDR2-800 2 x 2GB Kit, $32.
  • Graphics Card: GeForce 9400 (integrated in the motherboard chipset), $0.
  • HDD: Western Digital WD10EACS 1TB SATA, $105.
  • PSU: PC Power & Cooling Silencer PPCS370X 370W 80 PLUS, $55.
  • Case: Lian Li PC-C37B, $150.
  • Keyboard/Mouse: Logitech diNovo Edge, $158.
  • TV Tuner: Hauppauge HVR-2250 Media Center Kit, $140.
  • Total Cost: $859

Thoughts, comments, violent reactions?

Addendum:
-Lack of optical drive on purpose. Will use a spare DVD for OS installation and media will be streamed from a 12TB unRAID server.
-OS is already on-hand - Windows Vista Ultimate SP1 32-bit
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post #5295 of 18891
1/4/09 at 11:22pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilovejedd View Post

Thoughts, comments, violent reactions?

Good.
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post #5296 of 18891
1/5/09 at 3:17am
Ok, maybe I am missing it in the 178 pages to read... but what I don't get is what software brings this all together?

I want to build a system with three HD Cards (record up to 3 or watch 2 and record 1).
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post #5297 of 18891
1/5/09 at 5:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chakotay2 View Post

Ok, maybe I am missing it in the 178 pages to read... but what I don't get is what software brings this all together?

I want to build a system with three HD Cards (record up to 3 or watch 2 and record 1).

That's the role of a frontend. Check also:

Software – Links to Useful Threads
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post #5298 of 18891
1/5/09 at 5:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

That's the role of a frontend. Check also:

Software - Links to Useful Threads

Thanks, just to be clear then, will WMC:

1) take care of 'season pass' recording with an epg?

2) auto balance the load so it passes recording duty to an unused card?

3) What cards are supported by WMC?

4) I have played with WMC and haven't seen that it recognizes .tp files (which the two cards I already own MyHD-130 and Fusion 7 Gold) use... Am I missing something?

Thanks!
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post #5299 of 18891
1/5/09 at 6:24am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by chakotay2 View Post

Thanks, just to be clear then, will WMC:

1) take care of 'season pass' recording with an epg?

2) auto balance the load so it passes recording duty to an unused card?

3) What cards are supported by WMC?

4) I have played with WMC and haven't seen that it recognizes .tp files (which the two cards I already own MyHD-130 and Fusion 7 Gold) use... Am I missing something?

1. I don't think so.
2. Yes.
3. All of them. The support for clear QAM is another story, however.
4. Registry tweak?
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post #5300 of 18891
1/5/09 at 6:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by renethx View Post

1. I don't think so.
2. Yes.
3. All of them. The support for clear QAM is another story, however.
4. Registry tweak?

nice, I suppose I could just use Cliff Watson EPG for that part... thanks! Now to find the funding...!
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post #5301 of 18891
1/5/09 at 7:18am
First time poster, and thanks to renethx and all the pros on this thread!

I have a problem tuning clear QAM using the HVR-2250, and am beginning to suspect a hardware problem in the 2250. Here are the config essentials:

MB: Asus P5Q-EM
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 3 GHz (stock cooler)
Memory: Corsair 4GB 6400
HD: 1 TB SATA HD
Graphics: on-board G45
TV: Samsung LN46A650 connected via HDMI direct to mobo output
Tuner: HVR-2250
case: NSK2480
OS: Vista Ultimate 64 bit

(a side note: this is a sweet, nice looking, cool & quiet rig! Thanks renethx for all of the pointers!)

I installed Vista, then updated OS and all drivers. Installed the HVR-2250. Installed three different drivers (the included CD, 4.7 from the Haup website, and a pre-release from tech support). Connected Comcast cable directly to the 2250. The behavior is that analog channels are tuned fine. QAM channels seem to be detected and locked, but only get a black screen in WinTV when I select one of them. BTW, the Samsung tunes clear HD channels fine (it displays them as subchannels, e.g. 10.1, 89.12, etc).

My main aim is to use this setup in WMC. I installed TV Pack 2008 using instructions from mikewren.com. When setting up TV in WMC, only the dual analog tuners are detected.

I also tried doing a clean install of Vista Ultimate 32 bit, with the same results.

I would appreciate knowing if anyone else has had similar experience.

Thanks!
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post #5302 of 18891
1/5/09 at 7:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by chakotay2 View Post

Thanks, just to be clear then, will WMC:

1) take care of 'season pass' recording with an epg?

2) auto balance the load so it passes recording duty to an unused card?

3) What cards are supported by WMC?

4) I have played with WMC and haven't seen that it recognizes .tp files (which the two cards I already own MyHD-130 and Fusion 7 Gold) use... Am I missing something?

Thanks!

Assuming WMC means Media Center in either Vista or XP flavor:

1. not really, but you can sort of do it
2. yes
3. Only cards with BDA drivers. This excludes MyHD. Fusion has BDA drivers.
You can use the MyHD (in XP) as usual. You can't schedule in MC, but you can play back the recordings.

HDHomerun plus one or two fusions would give you 3 or 4 tuners, all controlled by MC.
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post #5303 of 18891
1/5/09 at 7:40am
The home run looks like a cool option!

Can you explain the not really sort of for season pass?
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post #5304 of 18891
1/5/09 at 8:25am
Hi,

Finally I setup my HTPC and watch several movies during days off.

My config: E8400, Gigabytes P45, HIS 4670, 8GB RAM, 2x512GTB in RAID0, Vista Ultimate x64, AverTV A180 (PCI only, not combo).

Btw, I hook HIS4670 HDMI to my projector, TV to a HDTV-ready projection TV and DVI to a LCD. It's awesome. The PC is very/very quiet.

I am using Beyond TV 4.9.0 with Comcast. It finds 38 QAM channels. Most of them are 480p which play fine. I find when I try to watch 1080i and 720p channels, I got image/sound stuttering problem. Just wonder, how to fix it? I think my PC is powerful enough. Does Vista MCE support QAM? How to enable it?
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post #5305 of 18891
1/5/09 at 10:02am
mwang168,
From what I've read, Vista Media Center (VMC) does not support QAM unless you have TV Pack 2008 installed. There's been a ton of discussion all around the web about Microsoft only making this available to their channel partners (i.e. not to us hobbyist/enthusiasts). That said, you can look for a torrent for TV Pack and give it a go. It purportedly requires a fresh install of Vista, so if you're not up to starting over from scratch you may be sol. I am trying the same thing but so far have not been able to see my HVR-2250 digital tuners in VMC.

Good luck!
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post #5306 of 18891
1/5/09 at 11:24am
thanks, then how do you guys resolve the image/video stutter issues?
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post #5307 of 18891
1/5/09 at 11:43am
While VMC doesn't support QAM, there are two products that circumvent that by "acting" like an ATSC tuner. HDHR (network) and another (PCIe), whose name escapes me. M-something.

TV Pack doesn't need a fresh Vista install. But you should make a ghost or true image of your C: drive since it doesn't uninstall correctly. In my experience.

It doesn't take much computer to play HDTV. 2GHz dual core is plenty.
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post #5308 of 18891
1/5/09 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by grittree View Post

While VMC doesn't support QAM, there are two products that circumvent that by "acting" like an ATSC tuner. HDHR (network) and another (PCIe), whose name escapes me. M-something.

AVerMedia AVerTV Combo PCIe (M780)
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post #5309 of 18891
1/5/09 at 12:57pm
For the low-end AMD/AMD mATX build, what advantage does the separate Radeon HD 4550 card give over the IGP on the 780G board? I assume it's what gives this system the PQ bump vs. what it would have without the separate video card? (For the record, I don't care about games, blu-ray playback, or 8-channel audio - 5.1 via optical-out is enough for me.)

Would getting the Radeon 4670 give any advantage over the 4550 for picture quality?

I wonder if my money would be better spent bumping up the CPU a bit, while keeping a 780G mobo and skipping the video card, or if the video card is an integral part of this build's playback quality/performance. (And if I were to keep the 4550 but still get a higher CPU, would there be any advantage in playback performance/quality other than the usual performance increase one sees in opening programs/etc?)
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post #5310 of 18891
1/5/09 at 4:16pm
Several months back I was going to build my HTPC and had narrowed my M/B down to

Gigabyte GA-M78SM-S2H

Seemed to cover the hd playback fully and at the time appeared to be the only one to play full channel audio over hdmi.

Time has moved on and I'm now getting ready to start building... but that suddenly got me thinking that the latest M/B's are probably better. 9300 chipset etc.

So I was wondering if there was something better on the market now that covers all aspects of hd/br playback vid/audio etc.

Cheers

El-d
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