or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › 2.35:1 Constant Image Height Chat › DIY Constant Height › 4-Way Acoustically Transparent Masking
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

4-Way Acoustically Transparent Masking - Page 9

post #241 of 835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifeliciano View Post

...Im going to try these motors. The black one is a very high torque dc servo actuator with and encoder, spins 30 rpm @ 24vdc. I don't have torque specs but it it very strong. The other motor is a no name Taiwanese gear motor with fairly good torque and spins 10 rpm @ 24vdc.

Cool. Did you already get one of the rotators? I'd be interested to hear anything you learn about connecting the gear motor to the rotator controller.
post #242 of 835
Scott,

I will draw some schematics soon.
post #243 of 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

Cool. Did you already get one of the rotators? I'd be interested to hear anything you learn about connecting the gear motor to the rotator controller.

Nope..I was thinking about going a different way. I have an IR relay board and some high current relays. I can make it simple like Bob Triannes system or... One of the EE's (PhD) at my work is also a professor at a local college. I talked to him about a "project" for his class. A simple motor driver circuit that would drive a motor to X amount of set positions and able to jog for fine adjustments.

Although my chances are slim, I really do pray option 2 pans out...
post #244 of 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCue View Post

Scott,

Here is the relay scehmatic. I am no electrical engineer ( just a hobby) but this should work. Any input from an elctrical engineer is welcome.

I have used two DPDT (double pole double throw relays). When a normal signal is sent to the rotator motor, relay #1 is energized and the gear motor gets normal polarity power (+ to + and - to -). When the rotation of the rotator is reversed by the controller, relay # 2 is energized and the polarity of the gear motor is revrsed also (+ to - and - to +), making it rotate in the reverse direction also. This is the mode shown in the schematic.

Looks complicated but it is very simple and inexpensive to build. More on this later.

Looks good and simple which is very important in case of needed troubleshooting. Hell I might order one of those rotators, but I'm waiting on the professor to answer me.
post #245 of 835
More ramblings on stuff & ideas;

The "Kits-R-Us" (model # K180V3 for $38 assembled) UHF rmt ctl 4 relay board that has jumper selectable momentary or latching function (latching is what we need I think) as well as a reset connection for each relay. The description says it allows for a limit switch to be connected to each relay for reseting. The link below is to Carl's Electronics web page. (There is also a two relay version board. But the ten relay Kits-R-Us board kit has NO reset or jumper selectable relay function ability-- that is a real shame !)

I have wondered if one could use limit switches or Hall Effect swts (attached in an adjustable manner onto a rail) to stop the motor at different points (Presets) for different AR positions ? The board has 5V output for swts. You know; press rmt ctl button "One" and the motor starts & drives to limit switch "One" position. Limit swt "One" resets relay "One" on the K180V3 relay board above & motor stops the mask panel in the right spot we've chosen. Have not gotten around to buying this stuff to experiment as yet & constructing such a thing). Guess you might need a second set of limit swts at full open & close to trip another relay to change motor direction or can you piggy back off one set ? I am no electronics guy.

Of course you would need full open & full close limit swts (guess you would need another relay to change motor direction) plus swts for each AR position. Maybe one could use two boards & hack the two remotes and place the little TX boards in a rmt ctl sized project box. That would give; full open, full close & six possible AR points. Not sure how
forward & backward adjustment buttons would be wired in...?

http://www.electronickits.com/remote_control/rf4.htm

This link is to "Kits-R-Us" web site photo of the board;
http://kitsrus.com/jpg/k180.jpg

EDIT: Just noticed the relays were different colors in the two links above, unsure why, guess they changed components for some reason.

Somewhere in that old Bob Trianas thread in the AVS Archives someone mentioned using Comparator type IC's & "logic table" to build a control board, don't think they ever finished that idea. Hey the simpler the better !

Picaxe makes a very simple $15 combo motor driver & microprocessor board, the "Picaxe-08 Motor Driver Board". Board runs at 6 Vdc MAX, but your loads, motor & otherwise, should not total more than 800 mA @ 4.5 volts
Guess one would have to really watch the stall current of the motor in use. Then their is the programming and will that small IC hold enough code to do what we want? Not sure how far 80 lines & 256 bytes of memory will take you
in programing...

See link to HVW Tech web page for this little jewel;
http://www.hvwtech.com/products_view.asp?ProductID=677

Info on the Picaxe 08M 8-pin IC: http://www.hvwtech.com/products_view.asp?ProductID=515

Man, I hope the rmt ctl antenna motors ScottJ007 & TeeCee are working on will make a great cheap solution !
ifeliciano let us know what you coworker / prof says and how your relay board goes also!

John (I'll hush for now... man this post got long winded, oh yeah I was hushing wasn't I ...)
post #246 of 835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCue View Post

Scott,

Here is the relay scehmatic. I am no electrical engineer ( just a hobby) but this should work. Any input from an elctrical engineer is welcome.

I have used two DPDT (double pole double throw relays). When a normal signal is sent to the rotator motor, relay #1 is energized and the gear motor gets normal polarity power (+ to + and - to -). When the rotation of the rotator is reversed by the controller, relay # 2 is energized and the polarity of the gear motor is revrsed also (+ to - and - to +), making it rotate in the reverse direction also. This is the mode shown in the schematic.

Looks complicated but it is very simple and inexpensive to build. More on this later.

I think I understand. Would diodes like this and relays like this from RadioShack work? Or would you recommend something different?
post #247 of 835
Scott,
Yes, the diodes are the exact ones. The relay has a resitance of 160 ohms. Will have to do some calculations regarding putting them in SERIES instead of PARALLEL, but they can be used. The two little black square boxes at one end of the control board, next to where the white cable is coming off, are the relays on the system (I guess you knew that !!). You can probably hear them click when the motor turns on. If you trace back the +ve and the -ve wires from the back of the motor they should end up connected to these relays. You will have to cut one of these cables to get a SERIES connection. On the other hand if we can find a DPDT relay with a higher resistance, we may be able to get a parrallel connection directly off of the motor board. If the motor power is coming from the relay connections and there are no other electronics involved in that circuit then a SERIES versus PARALLEL connection may not make a big difference.

John, your ideas are very interesting. It is a different way of controlling the motors that will need a lot of modifications for individual DIY HT enthusiasts. If the rotator project works out it will be very easy to integrate into any system. Very good links though, thanks.
post #248 of 835
Here is a link to All Electronics web page for DPDT relays & they have eleven choices, 6 with > 270 ohms. See if one of these is useful....

http://www.allelectronics.com/index....elay&x=23&y=11

John
post #249 of 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDGTX View Post

Here is a link to All Electronics web page for DPDT relays & they have eleven choices, 6 with > 270 ohms. See if one of these is useful....

http://www.allelectronics.com/index....elay&x=23&y=11

John

John,
I saw those relays.They look promising.

Thanks
post #250 of 835
Thread Starter 
Newark Electronics has thousands of relays. My problem is I don't know enough about electronics to know what we are specifically looking for.
Here's a link to several with a resistance of 360ohm.

On the back of the motor, underneath the hall sensor, I do have access to the positive and negative terminals on the back of the motor. Could I solder a wire to each of these terminals to get a parrallel connection? Or are you thinking that it would be better to find a connection directly off of the control board?
post #251 of 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

Newark Electronics has thousands of relays. My problem is I don't know enough about electronics to know what we are specifically looking for.
Here's a link to several with a resistance of 360ohm.

On the back of the motor, underneath the hall sensor, I do have access to the positive and negative terminals on the back of the motor. Could I solder a wire to each of these terminals to get a parrallel connection? Or are you thinking that it would be better to find a connection directly off of the control board?

Can you identify the cable coming off of one of the motor terminals (+ or -) , not connected to anything else on the HALL SENSOR board, and going to the control board? That would be one that will needed to be spliced and the RADIO SHACK relay inserted in there. Basically what we are trying to do have the current flow through the relay when the motor is energized. This will be a SERIES connection. This will drop the voltage across the motor terminal a little, but the current draw from the control board will not be a problem as might have been in a parrallel circuit.
You can try this and see if the relay clicks when the motor is turning and wheather there is any significant drop in the speed. It should work.
post #252 of 835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCue View Post

Can you identify the cable coming off of one of the motor terminals (+ or -) , not connected to anything else on the HALL SENSOR board, and going to the control board? That would be one that will needed to be spliced and the RADIO SHACK relay inserted in there...

Here they are. It will be very easy to splice into either one of them. I've order the Radio Shack relays.



post #253 of 835
Most impressive thing I have ever seen here!

Great work!
post #254 of 835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Most impressive thing I have ever seen here! Great work!

Thanks! I think we are VERY close to having a fairly simple and inexpensive solution for the "do-it-yourselfer" to have IR motorized control of screen masking or anything else in the home theater. Stay tuned!
post #255 of 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

Thanks! I think we are VERY close to having a fairly simple and inexpensive solution for the "do-it-yourselfer" to have IR motorized control of screen masking or anything else in the home theater. Stay tuned!

As Barry told Wesley Gibson, "You are the MAN!!"
post #256 of 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

Thanks! I think we are VERY close to having a fairly simple and inexpensive solution for the "do-it-yourselfer" to have IR motorized control of screen masking or anything else in the home theater. Stay tuned!

My 2-Way Stewart Vista Scope scope set up (14' wide w/ Microperf) retailed out near $24K. Very, very nice & at a fraction of the cost.
post #257 of 835
Scott,
Great work !!. So now the +ve can be cut and the COIL side of the relay can be inserted in the circuit.

_______________________________________________________ (5 volt)
_______________________________________________________ (Zero)
_______________________________________________________ (Hall Sensor)
_______________________________________________________ (Ground)
_______________________________________________________ (Motor -ve)
_________________. .____________________ (Motor +ve)
. .
....Relay COIL...........

Radio Shack usually has these in stock. All we need to know is that the relay engages when the motor energizes. Then I can design a circiut board on which the relays and all other connectors can be mounted.
Excellent pictures !!!!!!
post #258 of 835
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCue View Post

... All we need to know is that the relay engages when the motor energizes. Then I can design a circiut board on which the relays and all other connectors can be mounted.
Excellent pictures !!!!!!

I stopped by a Radio Shack on my way home from work tonight and they had the relay in stock. I picked one up and connected it to the motor lead wires. It engages (clicks) exactly as it should. I'll post some pictures in this post later (my camera battery is dead right now). I also tested the diode and, as expected, the motor only works in one direction when it is in line before the relay.

...

Edit.... ADD PICTURES ............



post #259 of 835
Almost there !!!!!!!
post #260 of 835
Hey guys...I was looking at the rotation specs for the rotator and it claims that the total rotation is 450 degrees. That seems to be set in the unit's firmware. Does that mean that the rotator will only spin 1.25 revolutions,stop, and then you'll have to spin the opposite way ? Is that going to be enough to roll out the masking ?
post #261 of 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifeliciano View Post

Hey guys...I was looking at the rotation specs for the rotator and it claims that the total rotation is 450 degrees. That seems to be set in the unit's firmware. Does that mean that the rotator will only spin 1.25 revolutions,stop, and then you'll have to spin the opposite way ? Is that going to be enough to roll out the masking ?

The firmware monitors the number of revolutions the motor makes and not the number of revolutions the rotor makes. Yes, when the rotor reaches the end it can reverse if needed. That gives us 1 minute to work with. Scott has modified the gears to get more revolutions in that time, about 26 RPM. The second option of using a seperate motor again gives us 1 minute to work with and the RPM of that motor will determine how many revolutions we get. Those geared motors are available in anything from 10 to 100 RPM range.
post #262 of 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by TeeCue View Post

The firmware monitors the number of revolutions the motor makes and not the number of revolutions the rotor makes. Yes, when the rotor reaches the end it can reverse if needed. That gives us 1 minute to work with. Scott has modified the gears to get more revolutions in that time, about 26 RPM. The second option of using a seperate motor again gives us 1 minute to work with and the RPM of that motor will determine how many revolutions we get. Those geared motors are available in anything from 10 to 100 RPM range.

Okay got it..
post #263 of 835
Thread Starter 
I hooked up the modified rotator to my masking system. I do not have the NEW motor attached, only the original rotator motor. The system does work but the motor is too loud and struggles due to being underpowered. I'm working with TeeCue on a motor upgrade, which I think will be very doable.

Click on the link below to see a YouTube video that I uploaded of the existing setup. (This is my first YouTube video, so let me know if this works...)

Video of my first motorization attempt.
post #264 of 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ifeliciano View Post

Nope..I was thinking about going a different way. I have an IR relay board and some high current relays. I can make it simple like Bob Triannes system or... One of the EE's (PhD) at my work is also a professor at a local college. I talked to him about a "project" for his class. A simple motor driver circuit that would drive a motor to X amount of set positions and able to jog for fine adjustments.

Although my chances are slim, I really do pray option 2 pans out...

Well option two ain't gonna happen . I'm working on my other option before I buy a rotator. There is an issue with Bob Triannes circuit Rev C (the one with three high curent relays)..

Seems the motor will not rotate from 2.35:1 directly to 16:9. The way the circuit is wired I have to select 4:3 then reset the IR relay board and select 16:9. The motor drives fine between 4:3 <->16:9, 4:3 <-> 2.35, and 16:9>2.35, but won't do 2.35 >16:9. I need to look at the circuit a bit closer.

If any of you gents want to look at this and can figure it out before me, go for it. (According to the original thread where this circuit was posted, the easiest solution was to use a remote with macros and create a big macro that would send a 2.35>4:3 signal, pause a couple of seconds and send another signal to 4:3>16:9.....)

post #265 of 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

I hooked up the modified rotator to my masking system. I do not have the NEW motor attached, only the original rotator motor. The system does work but the motor is too loud and struggles due to being underpowered. I'm working with TeeCue on a motor upgrade, which I think will be very doable.

Click on the link below to see a YouTube video that I uploaded of the existing setup. (This is my first YouTube video, so let me know if this works...)

Video of my first motorization attempt.

Nice job on the video Scott. Hopefully your gear motor comes in soon.
post #266 of 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

I hooked up the modified rotator to my masking system. I do not have the NEW motor attached, only the original rotator motor. The system does work but the motor is too loud and struggles due to being underpowered. I'm working with TeeCue on a motor upgrade, which I think will be very doable.

Click on the link below to see a YouTube video that I uploaded of the existing setup. (This is my first YouTube video, so let me know if this works...)

Video of my first motorization attempt.

Well done Scott. A little tweaking will make it perfect.
post #267 of 835
ifeliciano

Let me study the schematic and I will try to figure this out.
post #268 of 835
Thread Starter 
I have a question that, again, shows some of my igorance... I received my gearmotors. They are rated 12VDC 3.5 Amp. I thought I could power them with a "wall-wart" type converter rated at 12V, but this doesn't seem to work. What is the right way to power the motors?
post #269 of 835
Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottJ0007 View Post

I have a question that, again, shows some of my igorance... I received my gearmotors. They are rated 12VDC 3.5 Amp. I thought I could power them with a "wall-wart" type converter rated at 12V, but this doesn't seem to work. What is the right way to power the motors?

I sent you some info that will be helpful.
post #270 of 835
The wall warts are rates on both volts and amps, and are regulated, or not. Volts times amps to get wattage if it's rates that way (i.e. you need at least a 50w 12VDC power supply). For electronics you'd need to deal with ripple current too, but for a motor, probably OK. I would recommend a regulated PS though. www.mouser.com is a good source.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: DIY Constant Height
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › 2.35:1 Constant Image Height Chat › DIY Constant Height › 4-Way Acoustically Transparent Masking