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Comparison - VHS/LD to DVD/HDM - Page 5

post #121 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

We have had two interesting announcements in the last week:

1. FIOS is now offerring 50 Mega Bit Internet Speed (and 25MB) in the Tri State Area.(NY, NJ, CT)

2. Comcast is ready to offer Switched Digital Video for TIVO HD STB's.

We already know what HDM can deliver. We have read the specs and see that neither can accomodate Deep Color. Nor xvYCC for that matter.

One of the unknowns is 3D. Depends on the next 18 months and how the public accepts 3D. I have my hopes up . . . . but . . . .

I don't accept your speculation that DVD is going away. Too entrenched IMO. According to the CEA - more households have DVD then have the Internet. (82% vs. 78%)

So in 5 years, if HDM has 20% of the market. Is that a niche?

Those are interesting announcements, and the infrastructure is headed in the right direction to support HD VOD. But it still has a lot of growing to do before it's truly ready for the masses. There are still a good number of US citizens that can't get DSL or Cable internet access, let alone service I would call high speed.

As for my speculation about the death of DVD, let me clarify that I mean DVD players will soon disappear. It's going to happen. Consumers won't even have a choice, just like with the TV market. You want to buy a family room sized TV, guess what? It's an HDTV, because you can't find a large SDTV anymore (I just did a quick search and could not find new SDTVs any larger than 32").

We've already seen HD players hit $100, and $200 is practically the regular every day price for entry level players now. When prices get down to $75, or $50, then SD-DVD hardware starts to go bye-bye. We just won't be able to buy them anymore. How long this process takes is a matter of conjecture, but that it will happen is a certainty IMO. DVD has evolved into HDM and the cat isn't going back into the bag.

Once HDM hardware becomes the only choice to purchase then Americans will gradually adopt HDM without necessarily wanting to, just like they're adopting HDTV. The hardware will come before the content for many consumers. At some point the market penetration will be great enough to reach critical mass and we will see widespread new releases on HDM. It won't happen overnight, but the transition from DVD to HDM will occur. Once HDTVs and HDM players are in the majority of homes it must happen, it would not make any sense for DVD to continue as the standard.

But DVD media won't die like the hardware. Backward compatibility and the large installed base you point out will prevent that. People will adopt HDM and start to purchase in that format, but they won't throw out their DVDs like they did with their VHS tapes.

Before I can answer your last question, what market are we talking about? Do you mean that HDM accounts for 20% of disc sales in 5 years? Or HDM players account for 20% of DVD player sales in 5 years? Need more info
post #122 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post

Those are interesting announcements, and the infrastructure is headed in the right direction to support HD VOD. But it still has a lot of growing to do before it's truly ready for the masses. There are still a good number of US citizens that can't get DSL or Cable internet access, let alone service I would call high speed.

As for my speculation about the death of DVD, let me clarify that I mean DVD players will soon disappear. It's going to happen. Consumers won't even have a choice, just like with the TV market. You want to buy a family room sized TV, guess what? It's an HDTV, because you can't find a large SDTV anymore (I just did a quick search and could not find new SDTVs any larger than 32").

HDTV's are enjoying the Govt. Mandate to go all digital by 2/09.

Economies of scale - only make one type of TV - CRT's are dead with the exception of 20" and smaller and even LCD is replacing those.

NOTE: Look at all the 5" battery operated TV's that will in one single day - 2/19/09 - be totally worthless. I own two - 1 Color and 1 B&W.

Quote:


We've already seen HD players hit $100, and $200 is practically the regular every day price for entry level players now. When prices get down to $75, or $50, then SD-DVD hardware starts to go bye-bye. We just won't be able to buy them anymore. How long this process takes is a matter of conjecture, but that it will happen is a certainty IMO. DVD has evolved into HDM and the cat isn't going back into the bag.

The problem is that you are quoting HD DVD player prices. BD is not giving up.

Quote:


Once HDM hardware becomes the only choice to purchase then Americans will gradually adopt HDM without necessarily wanting to, just like they're adopting HDTV. The hardware will come before the content for many consumers. At some point the market penetration will be great enough to reach critical mass and we will see widespread new releases on HDM. It won't happen overnight, but the transition from DVD to HDM will occur. Once HDTVs and HDM players are in the majority of homes it must happen, it would not make any sense for DVD to continue as the standard.

If HDM players hit a normal price of $75 - do you think people will not look at $25 priced DVD players?

Quote:


But DVD media won't die like the hardware. Backward compatibility and the large installed base you point out will prevent that. People will adopt HDM and start to purchase in that format, but they won't throw out their DVDs like they did with their VHS tapes.

Agreed

Quote:


Before I can answer your last question, what market are we talking about? Do you mean that HDM accounts for 20% of disc sales in 5 years? Or HDM players account for 20% of DVD player sales in 5 years? Need more info

20% of optical disc revenue - combo of sales and rentals
post #123 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

HDTV's are enjoying the Govt. Mandate to go all digital by 2/09.

Economies of scale - only make one type of TV - CRT's are dead with the exception of 20" and smaller and even LCD is replacing those.

NOTE: Look at all the 5" battery operated TV's that will in one single day - 2/19/09 - be totally worthless. I own two - 1 Color and 1 B&W.

There is some truth to this. However, digital tuners can (and do) come with SDTVs. People want HD. It's a buzzword. Even without the mandate, HDTV sales would be dwarfing SDTV sales in mid market up. If someone is in the market for a new $1,000 TV and it costs little to nothing more for an HDTV vs. a SDTV, they will buy the HDTV almost every time.

If there were demand for 42"+ projection SDTVs with digital tuners we would see them in stores. We don't. Take price out of the equation and quality becomes the deciding factor. This will happen with HDM vs DVD at some point when the price gap narrows to a negligible amount.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

The problem is that you are quoting HD DVD player prices. BD is not giving up.

Well, if HD-DVD players remain so much less expensive than BD I have a feeling most people will end up with HD. But what I really think will happen is that BD and DF format players will follow HD and all will quickly drop in price. It's back to your economies of scale point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

If HDM players hit a normal price of $75 - do you think people will not look at $25 priced DVD players?

They will look still at such cheap DVD players, but are also likely to give the HDM player more serious consideration with only a $50 price gap. Most importantly a $75 HDM player would be a strong disincentive to buy a $75 DVD player, or even a $50 DVD player. At $75 HDM players would capture substantial market share. If it costs almost the same as a DVD player and can also play DVDs, people will buy them.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

20% of optical disc revenue - combo of sales and rentals

I would likely consider that an emerging market. It's possible that in the next 5 years we will see HDM players find their way into 40% or 50% or even 60% of homes, with HDM content lagging behind at the 20% mark. That would sort of mirror what we're seeing with HDTV. But if HDM hardware is only in 20% of homes in 5 years then it would appear to be a niche market to me.
post #124 of 124
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublejack View Post

There is some truth to this. However, digital tuners can (and do) come with SDTVs. People want HD. It's a buzzword. Even without the mandate, HDTV sales would be dwarfing SDTV sales in mid market up. If someone is in the market for a new $1,000 TV and it costs little to nothing more for an HDTV vs. a SDTV, they will buy the HDTV almost every time.

People don't want HD - they want hang on the wall TV's that just happen to be called HDTV.

Quote:


If there were demand for 42"+ projection SDTVs with digital tuners we would see them in stores. We don't. Take price out of the equation and quality becomes the deciding factor. This will happen with HDM vs DVD at some point when the price gap narrows to a negligible amount.

At one point - the TV CEM's decided no more NTSC TV's. They decided for us. We had no say in this decision. We didn't vote with our wallet. "here it is - take it or leave it" was the choice.

- How many people complain about the quality of SD on an HDTV?


Quote:


Well, if HD-DVD players remain so much less expensive than BD I have a feeling most people will end up with HD. But what I really think will happen is that BD and DF format players will follow HD and all will quickly drop in price. It's back to your economies of scale point.

These are good speculations. Unfortunately we are in a VERY dynamic marketplace. Foresight is VERY difficult to see. Things can and do change in an instant. We have seen this a few times already


Quote:


They will look still at such cheap DVD players, but are also likely to give the HDM player more serious consideration with only a $50 price gap. Most importantly a $75 HDM player would be a strong disincentive to buy a $75 DVD player, or even a $50 DVD player. At $75 HDM players would capture substantial market share. If it costs almost the same as a DVD player and can also play DVDs, people will buy them.

So what about the movies? Speculate that an HD movie is priced $5.00 more than a DVD.

Quote:


I would likely consider that an emerging market. It's possible that in the next 5 years we will see HDM players find their way into 40% or 50% or even 60% of homes, with HDM content lagging behind at the 20% mark. That would sort of mirror what we're seeing with HDTV. But if HDM hardware is only in 20% of homes in 5 years then it would appear to be a niche market to me.

In our society? At the rate it is changing with regards to technology? Remember 5 years out makes HDM 7 years old. The most successful format in history peaked 8 years after SI and is now 10 years old - on the decline.

20% revenue would be a real success IMO for HDM. 20% of all households would as you said - guarantee it not only niche status but a failure.
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