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Mystery Lord of the Rings VHS Tape with Dolby Digital?

post #1 of 21
11/25/07 at 10:05am
Thread Starter 
I found an unopened commercially made promo VHS tape titled "The Lord of the Rings, The Trilogy Begins, Holiday 2001" yesterday at Goodwill. Obviously a promotion for the first film's release in 2001, but I was surprised to see this statement on the back of the sleeve, "Theatrical Trailer and Featurette Presented in 5.1 Surround Sound". It also lists the segments of the program as "Chapters".

Thinking it may have been a D-VHS tape, I purchased it and played it at home in my JVC D-VHS machine. The video was analog VHS with Hi-Fi sound, not Dolby Digital. At the end of the presentation, which lasts around 20 minutes, the Dolby Digital logo is shown after the credits.

Anybody know anything about this tape? Did JVC introduce an analog VCR with Dolby Digital on it? Was there a D-VHS version of this promo with the same sleeve? Any info is appreciated on this mystery hybrid VHS tape.
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post #2 of 21
11/25/07 at 11:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalbt View Post

Any info is appreciated on this mystery hybrid VHS tape.

It's got analogue video and hi-fi stereo. What makes it "hybrid"?

Sanjay
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post #3 of 21
11/25/07 at 12:02pm
The use of Dolby Digital first came out on LD. It was first called AC3. Then called AC3/Dolby Digital and finally just Dolby Digital.

Dolby used to use different monikers to seperate them from commerical and consumer sound formats. They first called their theater system Dolby System - then changed it to Dolby Stereo. I believe Star Wars was the only film with the DS logo on the lobby poster (could be wrong) They called their first 3 channel Consumer system Dolby Surround - then went to 4 channels and called it Dolby Pro Logic. They called their TV based system Dolby Surround.

The first film to show in the theater in Dolby Digital was Batman Returns.
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post #4 of 21
11/25/07 at 12:54pm
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Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

The use of Dolby Digital first came out on LD. It was first called AC3. Then called AC3/Dolby Digital and finally just Dolby Digital.

Dolby used to use different monikers to seperate them from commerical and consumer sound formats. They first called their theater system Dolby System - then changed it to Dolby Stereo. I believe Star Wars was the only film with the DS logo on the lobby poster (could be wrong) They called their first 3 channel Consumer system Dolby Surround - then went to 4 channels and called it Dolby Pro Logic. They called their TV based system Dolby Surround.

The first film to show in the theater in Dolby Digital was Batman Returns.

Wow, that was the most educational paragraph I've read in a while! Thanks!
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post #5 of 21
11/25/07 at 1:13pm
I think your vhs tape is a bootleg or at least has some odd labels on it. VHS with 5.1? lol
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post #6 of 21
11/25/07 at 1:20pm
I wonder if it was copied from an LD? Even though the 5.1 was encoded on the LD, the copy was made from the analog outputs on the LD player.
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post #7 of 21
11/25/07 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.Mike Ferrara View Post

I wonder if it was copied from an LD? Even though the 5.1 was encoded on the LD, the copy was made from the analog outputs on the LD player.

LOTR was 2001 - did this ever come out on LD? I can't find any proof - all I see is the 1978 "cartoon" version (which is listed on IMDB as "very rare.")
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post #8 of 21
11/25/07 at 2:56pm
Any pics? My guess is that they made a DVD and a VHS version of this promo, and the info on the DVD label was just reprinted for the VHS.
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post #9 of 21
11/25/07 at 3:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg Kettell View Post

Any pics? My guess is that they made a DVD and a VHS version of this promo, and the info on the DVD label was just reprinted for the VHS.

Ahhhhhhh . . that would make a ton of sense to me - Excellent thought and probably right . . . kudos

In 2001 - VHS was still going strong. It wasn't until 2003 that DVD passed VHS in sales.
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post #10 of 21
11/25/07 at 3:47pm
Thread Starter 
Sdurani: it would be hybrid IF it were actually analog VHS with DD 5.1, which it obviously isn't. I will try and get a picture posted soon.

You may be right Lee, they may have just gotten lazy with the VHS packaging. It's not a bootleg tape...it was a shrinkwrapped tape sponsored by JVC.
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post #11 of 21
11/25/07 at 4:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalbt View Post

Sdurani: it would be hybrid IF it were actually analog VHS with DD 5.1, which it obviously isn't. I will try and get a picture posted soon.

You may be right Lee, they may have just gotten lazy with the VHS packaging. It's not a bootleg tape...it was a shrinkwrapped tape sponsored by JVC.

Credit should go to Greg Kettell - I just agreed with him and offered some additional facts to help solve the mystery.
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post #12 of 21
11/25/07 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalbt View Post

Sdurani: it would be hybrid IF it were actually analog VHS with DD 5.1, which it obviously isn't.

Right, it isn't. Which is why I was wondering why you called it hybrid. Like the others said, the promo was likely done on a digital master. They were probably too lazy to edit out the DD logo and change the cover art for the VHS dub.

Sanjay
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post #13 of 21
11/25/07 at 7:34pm
Lee,

FYI: Dolby Stereo and Dolby Surround are the same encoding method; the former is the professional name, the latter is the consumer name. As you mentioned, the first consumer Dolby Surround decoders simply extracted a surround channel.

Later came Pro Logic decoding, which added centre channel extraction and used logic steering to improve channel separation. BTW, Pro Logic is just the name of the decoder; i.e., there's no such thing as Pro Logic encoding. The 4-channel to 2-channel matrix encoding was/is still called Dolby Surround.

Sanjay
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post #14 of 21
11/26/07 at 4:31am
What does a VHS tape have to do with BR, HD DVD, or even HDTV software media discussion?
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post #15 of 21
11/26/07 at 4:46am
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Originally Posted by Wet1 View Post

What does a VHS tape have to do with BR, HD DVD, or even HDTV software media discussion?

Thank you....finally!
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post #16 of 21
11/26/07 at 5:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Lee,

FYI: Dolby Stereo and Dolby Surround are the same encoding method; the former is the professional name, the latter is the consumer name. As you mentioned, the first consumer Dolby Surround decoders simply extracted a surround channel.

Later came Pro Logic decoding, which added centre channel extraction and used logic steering to improve channel separation. BTW, Pro Logic is just the name of the decoder; i.e., there's no such thing as Pro Logic encoding. The 4-channel to 2-channel matrix encoding was/is still called Dolby Surround.

Sanjay

All correct - I was listing the marketing names for the different commerical and consumer formats that Dolby used.

We did leave one out though . . Dolby Stereo - Spectrical Recording for theaters. An improvement to the analog commerical system (more noise reduction I think)

BTW - TRIVIA - Ray Dolby did not invent the process of extracting 4 channels from two channels. All he did was license the technology from those that did invent it. Before Dolby Stereo hit theaters - all multichannel stereo was Magnetic in nature and very expensive to produce.

We always hear about 70mm 6 Track. Well there was also 35mm 4Track - both Mag.

Ray Dolby's claim to fame was his noise reduction patents, A, B, C. he started at Ampeg - working on the very first Video Tape Recording system - his job - the NR for the audio.

IMAX for years used 35mm "full coat" for their sound delivery system.
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post #17 of 21
11/26/07 at 6:39am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

All he did was license the technology from those that did invent it.

Isn't it an adaptation of the Hafler/Dynaco circuit? I don't know whether they licensed it or not, but David Hafler seemed to be giving it away (describing it in articles, publishing circuit diagrams, etc).

Sanjay
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post #18 of 21
11/26/07 at 7:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Isn't it an adaptation of the Hafler/Dynaco circuit? I don't know whether they licensed it or not, but David Hafler seemed to be giving it away (describing it in articles, publishing circuit diagrams, etc).

Sanjay

Yes - I believe they are the holders of the patent. For some reason - my memory is telling me CBS had something to do with it - not sure.

Ray Dolby was like Bill Gates - he was in the right place . . . at the right time . . .with the right product.

All Dolby Stereo did was allow an inexpensive method of giving 4 channel stereo to theaters. It was the fact that George Lucas saw a demo of it and afterwards demanded that theaters that played Star Wars had to upgrade to DS so that audiences could not only see the painstaking work on the visuals - but also on the soundtrack. He was VERY adement about this issue.

If memory serves me - the first Dolby Stereo film was the Barbara S. and Kris K. movie Evergreen.

Also the old memory is telling me the first DS Spectral Recording film was Robocop - not sure.
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post #19 of 21
11/26/07 at 11:40am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

For some reason - my memory is telling me CBS had something to do with it - not sure.

Maybe that was the quad format that CBS/Columbia Records supported (during yet another format war)? I'm guessing.
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If memory serves me - the first Dolby Stereo film was the Barbara S. and Kris K. movie Evergreen.

'Evergreen' was the hit song; the movie was 'A Star is Born'. I've heard conflicting stories: some sources say it was the first Dolby Stereo movie, others say 'Logan's Run' was the first. Both films came out in 1976. Buuuut, a year earlier, Ken Russell's film 'Lisztomania' used Dolby Stereo in a 3-channel (L/C/R) configuration.

In any case, 'Star Wars' came out in '77 and really sold Dolby Stereo to the industry (and, more importantly, theatre owners). There's always some killer app that sells already existing technology. The ability to instantly update entire spread sheets got businesses to want PCs. And even though Steadicam was already around, that shot in Rocky' where the camera smoothly glides up the stairs and circles Stallone (no dolly, no crane) really got industry folk to notice.

Sanjay
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post #20 of 21
11/26/07 at 11:46am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Maybe that was the quad format that CBS/Columbia Records supported (during yet another format war)? I'm guessing. 'Evergreen' was the hit song; the movie was 'A Star is Born'. I've heard conflicting stories: some sources say it was the first Dolby Stereo movie, others say 'Logan's Run' was the first. Both films came out in 1976. Buuuut, a year earlier, Ken Russell's film 'Lisztomania' used Dolby Stereo in a 3-channel (L/C/R) configuration.

In any case, 'Star Wars' came out in '77 and really sold Dolby Stereo to the industry (and, more importantly, theatre owners). There's always some killer app that sells already existing technology. The ability to instantly update entire spread sheets got businesses to want PCs. And even though Steadicam was already around, that shot in Rocky' where the camera smoothly glides up the stairs and circles Stallone (no dolly, no crane) really got industry folk to notice.

Sanjay


Hey . . no fair - you cheated - you looked it up in Wiki

Quote:


Dolby Stereo (or Dolby Analog) was the original analog optical technology developed by Dolby Laboratories for 35 mm film prints in 1976, and first used on the movie Logan's Run.
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post #21 of 21
11/26/07 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Hey . . no fair - you cheated - you looked it up in Wiki

No need to. That information pre-dates Wikipedia. But there are also sources that say 'Star is Born' was first (I think it's even mentioned on the laserdisc jacket).

It's hard pinning down who was first. Ken Russell released two films in 1975 (the other being 'Tommy'), both of which supposedly used Dolby Stereo in 3 channels. Aside from the two 1976 titles mentioned earlier, Kubrick's 'Barry Lyndon' came out the same year and also used partial Dolby Stereo.

Sanjay
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