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Definitive Technology Studio Monitors?

post #1 of 38
11/29/07 at 12:48pm
Thread Starter 
I have a freind that is looking at these speakers. The 350 or 450 models. I am no audio expert, neither is he. I wanted to ask some of you guys in the know to give me some idea on these speakers. I mentioned the forums and he wanted me to ask about them here.

How are they on audio quality? Are these good speakers for the money?

Is there a similar speaker system in the same basic price range that is superior?

Any help is appreciated.
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post #2 of 38
11/30/07 at 5:42am
Thread Starter 
not a single reply?

no one has anything?
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post #3 of 38
11/30/07 at 5:52am
I have the Deftech 350.5 set which was a package they put together a year or so. The sound is what you would expect from deftec, nothing less then incredible for a mid-range price speaker... As long as he is not going from a $3500 per pair set to these he will be creaming his shorts..
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post #4 of 38
11/30/07 at 6:08am
I am curios about those myself. My Def Tech towers are jaw-dropping, so there is no question that their products are extremely high quality. They are the only bookshelf speakers I have seen at any price with bass extending well below 30Hz!
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post #5 of 38
11/30/07 at 6:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

I am curios about those myself. My Def Tech towers are jaw-dropping, so there is no question that their products are extremely high quality. They are the only bookshelf speakers I have seen at any price with bass extending well below 30Hz!

You mean the only ones whose manufacturer is brazen enough to print such an absurd specification. I guess that's where the name Mythos comes from: specifications that are in actuality myth.
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post #6 of 38
11/30/07 at 6:18am
Example of Definitive's specmaniship:

Pro Monitor 800: Frequency response 57hz to 30khz.

Tom Nousaine's measurement in S&V: 124hz to 18.2khz.

Definitive is famous for inflating specs, particularly the low end capability of their speakers, which they've been doing for years.
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post #7 of 38
11/30/07 at 6:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

I am curios about those myself. My Def Tech towers are jaw-dropping, so there is no question that their products are extremely high quality. They are the only bookshelf speakers I have seen at any price with bass extending well below 30Hz!

Well there is some question....at their price point they are very decent speakers, IMHO.
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post #8 of 38
11/30/07 at 6:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

Example of Definitive's specmaniship:

Pro Monitor 800: Frequency response 57hz to 30khz.

Tom Nousaine's measurement in S&V: 124hz to 18.2khz.

Definitive is famous for inflating specs, particularly the low end capability of their speakers, which they've been doing for years.

A) Don't listen to Pulliam; I'm a huge Def Tech fan, and he annoys the heck out of me with his fanboyism. Putting down any other speakers does not make his better or do anyone any favors, but for some reason he doesn't understand that.

B) Everyone knows that Def Tech exaggerates their specs; that doesn't make them bad speakers. Just don't expect the SM350/450 to go anywhere near their low-end. They're bookshelf speakers; if you plan to use them without a sub because of what some piece of paper says, then I've got some land in Florida that I would like to sell you.

OP, I've got a pair of SM350s that I picked up used off Audiogon for cheap, and I'm impressed with their tonality and imaging, but I wouldn't imagine using them without a sub. Using a 5-speaker surround system with all 350s or 450s is not uncommon, is usually enjoyed by the owners (that I've talked to), and is utilized with one (or better, two) subs. Take a look at the SVS or HSU lineup, Outlaw, or if you want to stick with Def Tech, the SuperCube I or Reference.
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post #9 of 38
11/30/07 at 6:33am
Also, for better answers to your question, post in the Definitive Technology thread here at AVS. People are usually more than willing to help by sharing their experiences and advice.
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post #10 of 38
11/30/07 at 6:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by schroedk View Post

A) Don't listen to Pulliam; I'm a huge Def Tech fan, and he annoys the heck out of me with his fanboyism.

**** you very much.
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post #11 of 38
11/30/07 at 7:00am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

**** you very much.

Gee, you think it's comments like this that annoy the heck out of me (and others?)

Have a great day!
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post #12 of 38
11/30/07 at 7:37am
Quote:
Originally Posted by schroedk View Post

Everyone knows that Def Tech exaggerates their specs; that doesn't make them bad speakers.

Agreed. Just didn't want anyone who didn't know to think, based on PULLIAMM'S fan-boy comment, that these speakers actually made it well below 30.
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post #13 of 38
11/30/07 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

Agreed. Just didn't want anyone who didn't know to think, based on PULLIAMM'S fan-boy comment, that these speakers actually made it well below 30.

The 450s extend to 24Hz, and the 350s extend to 26Hz. Both of these are well below 30Hz.
Since every word about my BP10Bs and 8Bs on the Def Tech website is 100% true, I know that they don't lie.
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post #14 of 38
11/30/07 at 8:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by PULLIAMM View Post

The 450s extend to 24Hz, and the 350s extend to 26Hz. Both of these are well below 30Hz.
Since every word about my BP10Bs and 8Bs on the Def Tech website is 100% true, I know that they don't lie.

Truly funny and totally divorced from any sense of reality. Please see post 7 above and Nousaine's measurements on the S&V web site. But, beyond that since Def Tech does not state the +/- range of their speakers, their specs are meaningless. Sure a 4" woofer can play a 30 hz tone: you just can't hear it.
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post #15 of 38
11/30/07 at 9:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

Truly funny and totally divorced from any sense of reality. Please see post 7 above and Nousaine's measurements on the S&V web site. But, beyond that since Def Tech does not state the +/- range of their speakers, their specs are meaningless. Sure a 4" woofer can play a 30 hz tone: you just can't hear it.

the 450's have a 6 1/2" mids and 10" bass PR's

if you email def tech, they will gladly give you the +/- 3db specs on any speaker you wish to know about, how they were measured and why they don't advertise +/- 3db specs
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post #16 of 38
11/30/07 at 9:50am
from chet at def tech:

SM350: +/- 3db 57 hz - 20 khz
SM450: +/- 3db 47 hz - 20 khz
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post #17 of 38
11/30/07 at 9:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

the 450's have a 6 1/2" mids and 10" bass drivers

if you email def tech, they will gladly give you the +/- 3db specs on any speaker you wish to know about, how they were measured and why they don't advertise +/- 3db specs

No they do not. They a 6.5" mids and a 10" passive radiator, which is a sophisticated port. No way that this speaker is going to be flat (or even within 10 db) of its stated low frequency cutoff. And again, have a look at Tom Nousaine's article for a full dose of Definitive Technology specmanship.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/spe...er-system.html

Tom's measurement of low frequency limit: 124hz. Def Tech spec: 57 hz.
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post #18 of 38
11/30/07 at 9:52am
here is the email from def tech about their advertised frequency response numbers:


Thanks for your recent email to Definitive Technology.The published
specifications on our loudspeakers list their overall frequency
response.(This simply means that a given speaker will respond to these
frequencies.)I do not have a list of the +/- 3 db frequency response
on our loudspeakers.

Unfortunately, not all +/- 3db frequency response specifications you'll
read are measured under the same conditions.(Meaning, the measurements
from one loudspeaker company may have been conducted under one set of
conditions, while the measurements from another company may have been
taken under a completely different set of conditions.)

There are no industry standards that all loudspeakers companies follow.
Specifically, where do you place the measuring microphone (on the floor,
or suspended directly in front of the speaker - and at what distance).
Where do you place the speaker, on a stand or on the floor.Do you take
room reflections into consideration?If you don't, it's difficult to
accurately measure a bipolar speaker.......

So, be careful when you compare specs from one company to another.If
at all possible, I'd recommend auditioning our loudspeakers (and any
others that you're considering) and trusting your ears.

Thanks,
Chet Pelkowski
Definitive Technology
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post #19 of 38
11/30/07 at 9:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

from chet at def tech:

SM350: +/- 3db 57 hz - 20 khz
SM450: +/- 3db 47 hz - 20 khz

Then why do they claim 26hz and 24hz respectively on their website? As stated above, these are meaningless specs.
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post #20 of 38
11/30/07 at 9:54am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

No they do not. They a 6.5" mids and a 10" passive radiator, which is a sophisticated port. No way that this speaker is going to be flat (or even within 10 db) of its stated low frequency cutoff. And again, have a look at Tom Nousaine's article for a full dose of Definitive Technology specmanship.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/spe...er-system.html

Tom's measurement of low frequency limit: 124hz. Def Tech spec: 57 hz.

yeah, i just edited from driver to PR
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post #21 of 38
11/30/07 at 9:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

Then why do they claim 26hz and 24hz respectively on their website? As stated above, these are meaningless specs.

see post #18
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post #22 of 38
11/30/07 at 9:57am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

here is the email from def tech about their advertised frequency response numbers:


Thanks for your recent email to Definitive Technology.The published
specifications on our loudspeakers list their overall frequency
response.(This simply means that a given speaker will respond to these
frequencies.)I do not have a list of the +/- 3 db frequency response
on our loudspeakers.

Unfortunately, not all +/- 3db frequency response specifications you'll
read are measured under the same conditions.(Meaning, the measurements
from one loudspeaker company may have been conducted under one set of
conditions, while the measurements from another company may have been
taken under a completely different set of conditions.)

There are no industry standards that all loudspeakers companies follow.
Specifically, where do you place the measuring microphone (on the floor,
or suspended directly in front of the speaker - and at what distance).
Where do you place the speaker, on a stand or on the floor.Do you take
room reflections into consideration?If you don't, it's difficult to
accurately measure a bipolar speaker.......

So, be careful when you compare specs from one company to another.If
at all possible, I'd recommend auditioning our loudspeakers (and any
others that you're considering) and trusting your ears.

Thanks,
Chet Pelkowski
Definitive Technology

Of course, Def Tech is one of the more egregious abusers of specmanship (and they always have been). Unfortunately, guys like Pulliamm read and believe the poppycock posted on the Def Tech website. (See post #13 above).
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post #23 of 38
11/30/07 at 9:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

see post #18

Then why not be more truthful in their specs. I don't know any other serious speaker manufacturer that states bogus low frequency limits the way Def Tech does. Why do they do it? To dupe the Pulliamms of this world. Sad, really.
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post #24 of 38
11/30/07 at 10:01am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

Of course, Def Tech is one of the more egregious abusers of specmanship (and they always have been). Unfortunately, guys like Pulliamm read and believe the poppycock posted on the Def Tech website. (See post #13 above).

i really don't care what PUlliamm says, just like he is a hard core def tech fanboy, there are jihad type def tech haters like you who can't wait to bash the product because they don't spec the way you would like them to

by the way, you can also say the same thing about their pricing

you can get def tech for much less than advertised at the site, usually about 25% or more off list price. do you have a problem with that too ?
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post #25 of 38
11/30/07 at 10:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

i really don't care what PUlliamm says, just like he is a hard core def tech fanboy, there are jihad type def tech haters like you who can't wait to bash the product because they don't spec the way you would like them to

by the way, you can also say the same thing about their pricing

you can get def tech for much less than advertised at the site, usually about 25% or more off list price. do you have a problem with that too ?

Separate issue entirely. But the philosophy is the same: the advertised price is a way of duping consumers into thinking they're getting a bargain when indeed they're not. Just like their low frequency cutoff is a way of duping consumers into thinking they're getting more low frequency response than they are. I am not a Def Tech hater, but I have always wondered why they need to lie about frequency response.
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post #26 of 38
11/30/07 at 10:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

Separate issue entirely. But the philosophy is the same: the advertised price is a way of duping consumers into thinking they're getting a bargain when indeed they're not. Just like their low frequency cutoff is a way of duping consumers into thinking they're getting more low frequency response than they are. I am not a Def Tech hater, but I have always wondered why they need to lie about frequency response.

they are not lying, read post #18 again
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post #27 of 38
11/30/07 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by otk View Post

they are not lying, read post #18 again

Please, they are misstating the low frequency response of their speakers, which to me is a lie. If they were being truthful, they would state some sort of qualifier in their response specs. Since they do not, they are purposely misleading potential purchasers. And again, they are the only serious speaker manufacturer (and I am giving them the benefit of the doubt using the term "serious") that stoops to such tactics, at least that I am aware of.
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post #28 of 38
11/30/07 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeno View Post

Example of Definitive's specmaniship:

Pro Monitor 800: Frequency response 57hz to 30khz.

Tom Nousaine's measurement in S&V: 124hz to 18.2khz.

Definitive is famous for inflating specs, particularly the low end capability of their speakers, which they've been doing for years.

To your knowledge, does that practice extend to their subwoofers? How about the Supercube series?
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post #29 of 38
11/30/07 at 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Irishman] View Post

To your knowledge, does that practice extend to their subwoofers? How about the Supercube series?

I believe it does. Their low frequency cutoff is nowhere near the stated specs and cannot be compared to subwoofer manufacturers like Velodyne, Hsu, SVS, and Outlaw that actually can hit their published low frequency specs. For example, in the same Nousaine test, the pro sub 800 (rated to 20hz) could produce 25 hz but at only 76db. And the actual 3db limit was 42hz, again almost double Def Tech's specification. It seems pretty clear that if you want to know the true low frequency limit of the Def Tech line, just double their published spec and you should be pretty close.
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post #30 of 38
11/30/07 at 12:25pm
I had a pair of 450s in-home a few years back and almost kept them (and also bought the 350s for rears and a matching center), but in the end I decided they sounded too much like the Polks I was trying to replace. I thought they sounded pretty good, though, and the PR added some nice punch. I just decided to go a different direction.

I think "StudioMonitors" is a bit of a misnomer, too, actually.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Mabuse View Post

Is there a similar speaker system in the same basic price range that is superior?

There are plenty of speakers in that price-range; some of which may be considered by any individual person to be superior, some which may be considered by any individual person to be inferior.
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