or Connect
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 37

post #1081 of 3881
Hi,

I''ve got a calibration gig coming up, using a bp1400.

I don't own a br burner, and would like to use avs hd for test patterns. I've used the hddvd version for some time and I love it.

But the sammy won't support the avchd version if I'm not mistaken...so that's not an option. The other option would be the bdmv version. But I don't know how to burn this to a dvd... no burn program I've got recognizes the files.

Any help would be appreciated.

Dimitri
post #1082 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by d6500 View Post

Hi,

I''ve got a calibration gig coming up, using a bp1400.

I don't own a br burner, and would like to use avs hd for test patterns. I've used the hddvd version for some time and I love it.

But the sammy won't support the avchd version if I'm not mistaken...so that's not an option. The other option would be the bdmv version. But I don't know how to burn this to a dvd... no burn program I've got recognizes the files.

Any help would be appreciated.

Dimitri

It sure does. I've used the original RC1 version of AVCHD with my Samsung BD-P1400. I burned the file to a DVD using ImageBurn and the Sammy has never balked at it. In fact, the 1400 was even able to play it back in 1080p/24. The only problem may be the FW version. I kept my BD-P1400 up-to-date on FW.
post #1083 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

Sean, I own the same 3 players you mentioned, and found that my 1400 was way off from the XA-2 (and BD35). So much so that I was running the 1400 on one grayscale setting, and the XA-2 on another. Since swapping out the 1400 for the 35 and doing a grayscale adjustment with the 35, I can run the XA-2 and BD35 on the same grayscale setting with results within the repeatability spec for my I1Pro. Looks like my results were exactly the reverse of yours.

Are you running the 35 in Normal picture mode, or another setting? I did my measurements in Normal.

BTW, if your Eye One is the Display model, it's a filter-based colorimeter and can indeed drift. The filters change gradually with time and humidity.

I too was running different settings for the 1400 and XA2, but it was still relatively close. The readings I am getting now are nowhere near any of my previous calibration settings for either player. I guess some times you have to trust your eyes. The red hue in the black level pattern was a big tip off that something was not right. I am certain now it has nothing to do with any of the players because the calibrated XA2 is now giving me the same erroneous readings I was getting last night with the BD35. If I adjusted the XA2 to my i1 readings I would get the same over-saturated red, low Gamma, and just plain inaccurate color. It killed contrast as well.

My BD-35 was set to "normal" and otherwise no picture adjustments. I did wonder if my AV receiver might be a factor, but I've got it set to bypass video processing and I also checked the settings with HDMI directly connected to the TV (not thru the AVR) and there was no change in readings.

How do you like the eye-one pro ? Has it been reliable for you ? I'm thinking it may be a good time to upgrade and buy the "pro" meter through SpectraCal.
post #1084 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

If measurements match and color is clearly off by eye, that's the only conclusion I could come to, that the colorimeter changed.

Thanks. It helps that someone with your calibration experience can confirm my suspicions.

As for the inability to play back the v1.0 disc in 24p, there shouldn't be any difference in calibration readings at 1080p/60... correct ? It just would be nice to be able to view some of the other test patterns (i.e. resolution, sharpness) at 24p.

I wonder if it would be worthwhile submitting this issue to Panasonic for a potential future FW update.
post #1085 of 3881
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by d6500 View Post

The other option would be the bdmv version. But I don't know how to burn this to a dvd

I don't know what the BD-P1400 plays. I think the early firmware didn't play AVCHD, but that could have changed. The link in the last sentence of step 4 shows how to burn BDMV to DVD, but honestly ImgBurn will set UDF 2.5 automatically.

To use ImgBurn to burn BDMV to DVD:
1) Choose write files/folders to disk
2) Browse for a folder and add the uncompressed /BDMV and /CERTIFICATE folders
3) Hit the Build button to burn the disk
4) A popup will ask if you want to use UDF
5) Select yes twice, hit ok, and the program will burn
post #1086 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

I too was running different settings for the 1400 and XA2, but it was still relatively close. The readings I am getting now are nowhere near any of my previous calibration settings for either player. I guess some times you have to trust your eyes. The red hue in the black level pattern was a big tip off that something was not right. I am certain now it has nothing to do with any of the players because the calibrated XA2 is now giving me the same erroneous readings I was getting last night with the BD35. If I adjusted the XA2 to my i1 readings I would get the same over-saturated red, low Gamma, and just plain inaccurate color. It killed contrast as well.

My BD-35 was set to "normal" and otherwise no picture adjustments. I did wonder if my AV receiver might be a factor, but I've got it set to bypass video processing and I also checked the settings with HDMI directly connected to the TV (not thru the AVR) and there was no change in readings.

How do you like the eye-one pro ? Has it been reliable for you ? I'm thinking it may be a good time to upgrade and buy the "pro" meter through SpectraCal.

The I1Pro is the best meter I've used, bar none. My previous favorite was an Ovation OpticOne (relabeled CA-6X), but it has drifted enough that I probably need to send it back to Progressive Labs for a recert. My I1Pro was an OEM model from SpectraCal bundled with CalMAN and I have since purchased the monitor calibration license from GMB as well as a license from Progressive Labs to use it with my CA-6X software. We currently only have older CRT sets at home, but I know that the I1Pro is also usable with regular LCD and plasma sets as well as lamp-based DLP, so I should be able to calibrate most any display (barring exotica such as LED- and laser-based) we'd be likely to get for the forseeable future.
post #1087 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rolls-Royce View Post

The I1Pro is the best meter I've used, bar none. My previous favorite was an Ovation OpticOne (relabeled CA-6X), but it has drifted enough that I probably need to send it back to Progressive Labs for a recert. My I1Pro was an OEM model from SpectraCal bundled with CalMAN and I have since purchased the monitor calibration license from GMB as well as a license from Progressive Labs to use it with my CA-6X software. We currently only have older CRT sets at home, but I know that the I1Pro is also usable with regular LCD and plasma sets as well as lamp-based DLP, so I should be able to calibrate most any display (barring exotica such as LED- and laser-based) we'd be likely to get for the forseeable future.

I use the Spyder 2 meter trained to an i1Pro. This gives me the color accuracy of the i1 combined with the lower level reading ability and faster reading of the Spyder 2. Great combo!
post #1088 of 3881
Thought it would be worth mentioning that X-Rite got back to me quickly on the i1 LT problem. They readily admitted that it could be defective and gave me a couple trouble-shooting steps. They suggested trying a different computer which was not possible, and besides the meter worked properly on the same laptop just 6 months ago. They also suggested trying different USB ports which I had already done.

Very good support in my opinion. I replied back with my trouble-shooting steps and I expect to get a return authorization and shipping instructions. Sounds like they will simply replace the meter as long as I can provide a receipt for purchase.
post #1089 of 3881
Hi,

when I use a DVD-Player with upscaling function (Yamaha S-1700). Which patterns are the best for me. In my opinion the LCD gets an HD signal an use the 709 encoding matrix so I have to choose a disk that has HD patterns on it or is there any error in reasoning ?
post #1090 of 3881
stash64 -- All of the i1 colorimeters are identical, so you shouldn't see any difference between the Display LT and the "Pro" model. It sure sounds like something changed in your meter.
post #1091 of 3881
Thread Starter 
The i1 LT is a colorimeter and the i1pro is a spectro. They're two completely different items.
post #1092 of 3881
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butty View Post

when I use a DVD-Player with upscaling function (Yamaha S-1700). Which patterns are the best for me. In my opinion the LCD gets an HD signal an use the 709 encoding matrix so I have to choose a disk that has HD patterns on it or is there any error in reasoning ?

My opinion is just to use a typical DVD to calibrate an upconverting DVD player. Upconversion is mentioned here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14520435
post #1093 of 3881
My opinion is just to use a typical DVD to calibrate an upconverting DVD player. Upconversion is mentioned here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post14520435

Ok thanks, it's a little bit hard to comprehend it.
Than I will take a PAL DVD pattern (like the one of the HCFR website).
But which matrix on the HCFR Software I have to choose ? 601, 709, PAL ?
post #1094 of 3881
Thread Starter 
I'm not familiar with PAL, so I don't know how upconversion is handled for non-US players. For the US, generally you can choose 601 or 709 in HCFR depending on whichever comes closest to your display's primaries. The prior link just basically explains that the display's primaries really have nothing to do with how upconversion is generally handled on US electronics. Although the defined SMPTE-C and Rec 709 primaries are different, typically this is unaccounted for with US consumer electronics and the primaries measure the same regardless of the source.
post #1095 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I don't know what the BD-P1400 plays. I think the early firmware didn't play AVCHD, but that could have changed. The link in the last sentence of step 4 shows how to burn BDMV to DVD, but honestly ImgBurn will set UDF 2.5 automatically.

To use ImgBurn to burn BDMV to DVD:
1) Choose write files/folders to disk
2) Browse for a folder and add the uncompressed /BDMV and /CERTIFICATE folders
3) Hit the Build button to burn the disk
4) A popup will ask if you want to use UDF
5) Select yes twice, hit ok, and the program will burn

Thanks,

It worked

Dimitri
post #1096 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The i1 LT is a colorimeter and the i1pro is a spectro. They're two completely different items.

Thanks, I haven't kept up with the i1 colorimeters. The last time I looked, I thought I had read that all of the i1 meters were the same. I stand corrected.
post #1097 of 3881
First off, big thanks to alluringreality, hwjohn and everyone involved in the conception and production of this calibration disc. I have a PS3 and a Mitsi HC-4900 projector combination, and the AVCHD disc works like a charm!

I have a question not about display calibration, but about the on-disc files in the AVCHD disc. Let me know if there is a better forum category to post this, or if I should take it to PM with someone who can point me in the right direction.

I create HD slideshows in a program called ProShow Gold. It has the option to create Blu-ray discs. I would like to convert those to AVCHD on DVD, but I have not yet found the magic incantation to have it work on my PS3. Either the PS3 only sees the disc as a "data disc" (and I have to manually play the m2ts file), or the PS3 automatically starts playing the disc but only at 480 lines of resolution.

The AVS HD disc is automatically recognized by the PS3 and is able to display content at 1080 lines... I need some guidance in figuring out what I need to tweak on my AVCHD's to achieve the same result. I've looked into tsRemuxer, BDedit, et al. but I must still be missing some little detail.

Thanks in advance, and please let me know if there is a more appropriate forum for this topic!
post #1098 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by taob View Post

First off, big thanks to alluringreality, hwjohn and everyone involved in the conception and production of this calibration disc. I have a PS3 and a Mitsi HC-4900 projector combination, and the AVCHD disc works like a charm!

I have a question not about display calibration, but about the on-disc files in the AVCHD disc. Let me know if there is a better forum category to post this, or if I should take it to PM with someone who can point me in the right direction.

I create HD slideshows in a program called ProShow Gold. It has the option to create Blu-ray discs. I would like to convert those to AVCHD on DVD, but I have not yet found the magic incantation to have it work on my PS3. Either the PS3 only sees the disc as a "data disc" (and I have to manually play the m2ts file), or the PS3 automatically starts playing the disc but only at 480 lines of resolution.

The AVS HD disc is automatically recognized by the PS3 and is able to display content at 1080 lines... I need some guidance in figuring out what I need to tweak on my AVCHD's to achieve the same result. I've looked into tsRemuxer, BDedit, et al. but I must still be missing some little detail.

Thanks in advance, and please let me know if there is a more appropriate forum for this topic!

I think the problem is that the PS3 is seeing a BD structure on a DVD, and we have found that it doesn't like that. It has to be an AVCHD file structure.

From your question I'm not sure if you want advice on how do make an AVCHD disc with your current workflow or if you want to know how we do it. If the program you are using now won't output directly to AVCHD, then you will probably end up having to try some funky tricks and hoping they work if you want to stick with that program. One thing we have done in the past is to take all the files from an AVCHD, strip out the video, and try to patch in the video you want. The problem with this is that it is extremely complex and getting things like chapters to work is difficult at best. alluringreality could help you more in this department, but we pretty much gave up on making it work a long time ago. You would have to have access to AVCHD/BD specs and really understand them in order to patch all the files to be correct for chapters and such.

You can always do it the way we do it, but it is a multi step process that is aimed at precision instead of ease of use. Maybe look for a different software? I don't think you are going to find any tools like tsMuxer, etc. that will help because they usually only deal with the video stream, not the actual disc structure. Switching to a different commercial software is probably the easiest thing to do (although it probably isn't what you want to hear).
post #1099 of 3881
Can someone do me a quick favor please and check something for me?

In the Misc. Patterns of this disk and I think its chapter 10 that has a pattern of wedges that converge into the center. It has a little logo in the bottom right corner that says something like "image by imatech".

Can you display that pattern and let me know if you see redish and greenish colors in a swirl-like fashion within the center of the image? Or is the entire pattern just black and white?

I am seeing these colors in there and I think it may be highlighting an issue with my display. I don't recall seeing color in this pattern with another display I tested...

Thanks!
post #1100 of 3881
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Can you display that pattern and let me know if you see redish and greenish colors in a swirl-like fashion within the center of the image? Or is the entire pattern just black and white?

Except for the logo, the pattern is gray. The center is a scaling artifact in the original, but it's still gray.
post #1101 of 3881
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taob View Post

I create HD slideshows in a program called ProShow Gold.

One of the items hwjohn mentioned was that we had tried converting other format types to AVCHD. I think I happened to run across a way to convert BDMV to AVCHD for the next disk. Here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post15285018 is how, and the thread is where Blu-ray related authoring is generally discussed. I've never heard of the program you mentioned so I don't know what it creates, but if it creates BDMV then you might be able to convert it to AVCHD so it would play from DVD on the PS3. For what it's worth, I think most of the consumer-level Blu-ray authoring programs, such as VideoStudio, can create slideshows.
post #1102 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Except for the logo, the pattern is gray. The center is a scaling artifact in the original, but it's still gray.

Thanks. Yes I figured that the pattern is rendered only in black and white. But I was wondering if most displays can show the pattern in black and white or if these colors swirls will appear due to some inherint limitation of defect in the device. Have you seen the pattern display only as black and white? Anyone seen color in this pattern? Thank you.
post #1103 of 3881
AlluringReality ... I just wanted to report back that the BD-P1500 reads your AVCHD disk just fine. The Black Clipping Pattern resulted in a Brightness setting of 50 (with HDMI Black Level at Normal), and the Flashing Color Bars resulted in a Color setting of 47 using the Blue Only Mode on my Samsung PN50A650. These are precisely the values that professional calibrators have been quoting as consistently right for this set.

So thanks again for all your help, it's a very useful disk and I'm confident in the results I'll get.

Unfortunately, I had a Samsung service tech out to look at my new set ... Samsung has authorized a screen replacement, so I guess I'll be swapping it out for a new one.

May I ask an earlier poster, how exactly do you train a Spyder 2 to an I1 Pro?
post #1104 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

I think the problem is that the PS3 is seeing a BD structure on a DVD, and we have found that it doesn't like that. It has to be an AVCHD file structure.

I tried using the directory structure as described on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD#Overview, but that did not give me the results I wanted. I forget exactly what happened... too many test combinations to remember. I should perhaps pick up a couple of DVD-RW's for testing, instead of burning through my nice TY media.

Quote:


You would have to have access to AVCHD/BD specs and really understand them in order to patch all the files to be correct for chapters and such.

Yeah, that's mainly why it is so slow going for me right now. I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible: single M2TS file, single chapter, no authoring, no menus, no surround sound, nothing. I just want to be able to pop a burned DVD into a PS3 and have it automatically play the lone video title contained therein, in 1920x1080 with 2-channel stereo audio.

Quote:


Maybe look for a different software?

Replacing ProShow Gold with someone else isn't a viable option right now. It can produce all sorts of other video files (most notably a 1920x1080 Quicktime MOV using h.264 video and AAC audio), DVD ISO images, Flash video, etc. I just figured since it could already output the BDMV standard, that would be the easiest path to an AVCHD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Here http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post15285018 is how, and the thread is where Blu-ray related authoring is generally discussed.

Thanks, that looks promising. I'm just heading to bed now, but I'll read through that thread in the morning.

Quote:


I've never heard of the program you mentioned so I don't know what it creates, but if it creates BDMV then you might be able to convert it to AVCHD so it would play from DVD on the PS3.

From what I've seen and heard (not having a BD burner myself), the Blu-rays generated by ProShow Gold are standard in every way. I see the BDMV and CERTIFICATE directories in the root, the index.bdmv and movieobject.bdmv files are there, there is a compliant M2TS file in the STREAMS directory, etc., etc. The PS3 will play the M2TS file at 1920x1080 if you simply have it on a USB stick or whatever... so I know it isn't a codec issue.

I've suspected all along that the fix lies somewhere in the metadata in the .BDMV files, not in the actual video or audio streams. Since the PS3 will play the video content, but scaled down to 480p, I suspect there is some sort of DRM kicking in... as if the PS3 is connected to a non-HDCP compliant display (it does the same thing... scales down HD content to SD). Again, I'm convinced there is a magic bit somewhere I need to flip, and everything will work.... okay, off to bed.
post #1105 of 3881
I have a request that will make it easier for calman users.

For the color section. The colored 75% window patterns. It would be great if it could be ordered as follows.

100% white
75% white
75% red
75% green
75% blue
75% cyan
75% magenta
75% yellow

I noticed the current order making it less than ideal for use with calman.

Thanks,

Daniel
post #1106 of 3881
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by taob View Post

I see the BDMV and CERTIFICATE directories in the root, the index.bdmv and movieobject.bdmv files are there, there is a compliant M2TS file in the STREAMS directory, etc., etc. The PS3 will play the M2TS file at 1920x1080 if you simply have it on a USB stick or whatever... so I know it isn't a codec issue.

Sounds like BDMV. Try the BDMV to AVCHD link.
post #1107 of 3881
About ready to get into adjusting the greyscale. First I am choosing my Contrast and Brightness settings.

Which of these two settings is the better "jumping off point" before I get started with adjusting my Greyscale. They both have my PZ85U brightness set at 52 but one is 60 Contrast and the other is 90. Getgray and AVS 709 from a BD35 over HDMI is my source. In both cases, the 1% just above black detail is just barely visible using the patterns on getgray and the 17 bar and above is flashing for me with AVS709's black clipping pattern and there is no clipping near white detail. At 60 Contrast, you can see a few more white bars above white 235 flash using AVS 709's white clipping pattern than you see with 90 but not many more. At 60 the light output peaks at just under 34 ftL and at 90 just over 34 ftL.

OPTION 1... CONTRAST @ 60




OPTION 2... CONTRAST @ 90

post #1108 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_Wiebe View Post

Thanks, I haven't kept up with the i1 colorimeters. The last time I looked, I thought I had read that all of the i1 meters were the same. I stand corrected.

Eyeone Display 2 and the LT are the same meter. Probably what you were thinking about. Pro looks physically different. I only know because of Kal's guide.

http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457

A few inches down the first page is a pic of the three side by side and a blurb about them.

C.
post #1109 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by taob View Post

I tried using the directory structure as described on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD#Overview, but that did not give me the results I wanted. I forget exactly what happened... too many test combinations to remember. I should perhaps pick up a couple of DVD-RW's for testing, instead of burning through my nice TY media.


Yeah, that's mainly why it is so slow going for me right now. I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible: single M2TS file, single chapter, no authoring, no menus, no surround sound, nothing. I just want to be able to pop a burned DVD into a PS3 and have it automatically play the lone video title contained therein, in 1920x1080 with 2-channel stereo audio.


Replacing ProShow Gold with someone else isn't a viable option right now. It can produce all sorts of other video files (most notably a 1920x1080 Quicktime MOV using h.264 video and AAC audio), DVD ISO images, Flash video, etc. I just figured since it could already output the BDMV standard, that would be the easiest path to an AVCHD.


Thanks, that looks promising. I'm just heading to bed now, but I'll read through that thread in the morning.


From what I've seen and heard (not having a BD burner myself), the Blu-rays generated by ProShow Gold are standard in every way. I see the BDMV and CERTIFICATE directories in the root, the index.bdmv and movieobject.bdmv files are there, there is a compliant M2TS file in the STREAMS directory, etc., etc. The PS3 will play the M2TS file at 1920x1080 if you simply have it on a USB stick or whatever... so I know it isn't a codec issue.

I've suspected all along that the fix lies somewhere in the metadata in the .BDMV files, not in the actual video or audio streams. Since the PS3 will play the video content, but scaled down to 480p, I suspect there is some sort of DRM kicking in... as if the PS3 is connected to a non-HDCP compliant display (it does the same thing... scales down HD content to SD). Again, I'm convinced there is a magic bit somewhere I need to flip, and everything will work.... okay, off to bed.

If you don't need menus/chapters, have you tried just burning the m2ts to a DVD? Not sure if you need the menus/chapters/etc. for your purpose.
post #1110 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvearl View Post

About ready to get into adjusting the greyscale. First I am choosing my Contrast and Brightness settings.

Which of these two settings is the better "jumping off point" before I get started with adjusting my Greyscale. They both have my PZ85U brightness set at 52 but one is 60 Contrast and the other is 90. Getgray and AVS 709 from a BD35 over HDMI is my source. In both cases, the 1% just above black detail is just barely visible using the patterns on getgray and the 17 bar and above is flashing for me with AVS709's black clipping pattern and there is no clipping near white detail. At 60 Contrast, you can see a few more white bars above white 235 flash using AVS 709's white clipping pattern than you see with 90 but not many more. At 60 the light output peaks at just under 34 ftL and at 90 just over 34 ftL.

OPTION 1... CONTRAST @ 60




OPTION 2... CONTRAST @ 90


Contrast is the one setting where you don't necessarily need to ask yourself what is the correct setting, but what settings are the incorrect settings. It is really a process of elimination.

1.) You need to find an acceptable light level to prevent eye strain. If 34 ftl is good for your application, then you are fine there. Most "bat cave" environments would be too dar for 34 ftl (34 ftl would cause eye strain).

2.) IMO, you should keep as many of the flashing bars above 235 as possible (within reason). There is detail in that region on DVD/BD.

3.) You have to watch color shift in your grayscale. From your preliminary readings it doesn't look like any color is rolling off at 90 Contrast, so you may not have any problems with this one.

You generally want to set contrast as high as possible without violating any of these guidelines. This will maximize contrast ratio without sacrificing viewing comfort or picture detail/color.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Display Calibration
AVS › AVS Forum › Display Devices › Display Calibration › AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration