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AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 43

post #1261 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

Congrats and thanks for the v1.2 !!! As usual, it is very well done. I particularly like the APL options for grayscale and colors. Is it your opinion that using the APL windows will provide a slightly more accurate calibration (for real world viewing) than the non-APL windows ? I think that is the whole idea, correct.

I was a little bummed to see that my Panny BD-35 still does not offer up 24p with the new disc. I noticed that the BD-35 is actually recognizing the disc as a DVD-R when I use the "status" remote function. I wonder if this recognition is what is driving the player NOT to output 1080P/24 ? I would bet if I burn the patterns to a BD disc that this problem would be solved. Now just need to find someone with a BD burner and a favor owed.

stash64,

The BD35 player normally does not automatically play Std DVDs at 24p even if your monitor accepts it. You have to manually set 24p for each Std DVD played (manual page 29 Video settings). The Blu-ray disks however do automatically play at 24p if the master 24p HDMI setting is on (manual page 32).

Try setting 24p in the player when this calibration disk is playing.
post #1262 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by fdimegli View Post

stash64,

The BD35 player normally does not automatically play Std DVDs at 24p even if your monitor accepts it. You have to manually set 24p for each Std DVD played (manual page 29 Video settings). The Blu-ray disks however do automatically play at 24p if the master 24p HDMI setting is on (manual page 32).

Try setting 24p in the player when this calibration disk is playing.

THANKS... I'll give that a shot. I did read the manual but forgot about the manual setting for 24p with DVD's. I was stopping playback and going into the main set-up menu to make sure 24p was engaged, but you're correct... that just ensures BD discs playback at 24p.
post #1263 of 3881
I just tried the 1.2 MP4 patterns (was previously using 1.0). I prefer the new structure and organization of the disc over the old one, thanks!

I do however have a suggestion for a test pattern: a 100% gray window with a bulls-eye/cross-hair right in the center of the test pattern. This would ease placing the colorimeter in the exact same spot every time. I like to re-calibrate my EyeOne Display LT every 10 minutes and my calibrations usually take a lot longer (upwards of an hour or more) and it's a real pain placing the colorimeter in the exact same spot 6 or more times in a row. With some sets, readings are slightly different based on the placement of the colorimeter, so a test pattern with a cross-hair in the dead center would really help with consistent repeatable measurements.

Thanks for an awesome and free product!
post #1264 of 3881
alluringreality - I finally had a chance to spend some time with the new 1.2 and it is a huge upgrade. Thank you so much for this. In addition to the new color scales patterns, I am so thrilled with how much faster the switching is between the patterns and the menus.

Yes I can now confirm that indeed it maintains the same output format (1080p/24) the entire time, which saves me from several seconds of blanking and HDMI handshaking as I move back and forth between the patterns (particularly between 75% colors and 100% colors). Wow what a huge improvement. Thanks again and keep up the fantastic work!

If you are interesting in any feature requests the one remaining pattern that I'd like see is a lip sync pattern. I know that is very challenging to do though.
post #1265 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

I just tried the 1.2 MP4 patterns (was previously using 1.0). I prefer the new structure and organization of the disc over the old one, thanks!

I do however have a suggestion for a test pattern: a 100% gray window with a bulls-eye/cross-hair right in the center of the test pattern. This would ease placing the colorimeter in the exact same spot every time. I like to re-calibrate my EyeOne Display LT every 10 minutes and my calibrations usually take a lot longer (upwards of an hour or more) and it's a real pain placing the colorimeter in the exact same spot 6 or more times in a row. With some sets, readings are slightly different based on the placement of the colorimeter, so a test pattern with a cross-hair in the dead center would really help with consistent repeatable measurements.

Thanks for an awesome and free product!

The cross hair would effect the reading of the probe I bet.

I just use those little sticker dots from the office. They are very weak in terms of adhesion so I think they should be quite safe. Just test one first. Then again. My plasma has a glass surface.

I place it relative to where the cable enters my D2 when it is already on the screen.

C.
post #1266 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvearl View Post

The cross hair would effect the reading of the probe I bet.

I just use those little sticker dots from the office. They are very weak in terms of adhesion so I think they should be quite safe. Just test one first. Then again. My plasma has a glass surface.

I place it relative to where the cable enters my D2 when it is already on the screen.

C.

I wouldn't use that test pattern to actually take readings. It would only be there for reference and for proper placement of the colorimeter. It could very well be any cross-hair pattern as long as the cross-hair is dead center. The 100% gray window used for measurements should remain as is today.
post #1267 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

I wouldn't use that test pattern to actually take readings. It would only be there for reference and for proper placement of the colorimeter. It could very well be any cross-hair pattern as long as the cross-hair is dead center. The 100% gray window used for measurements should remain as is today.


Sharpness pattern work? Or that other one with the grid and circles? Has a centre point does it not?

Just till it got implemented I mean.
post #1268 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvearl View Post

Sharpness pattern work? Or that other one with the grid and circles? Has a centre point does it not?

Just till it got implemented I mean.

Unfortunately the sharpness pattern doesn't have a center point. I checked out the one with the grid and circles and there it also doesn't have a dead-center lines crossing point. It has more of a box in the center of the screen. That could work, but the cross-hair dead-center pattern would be nice.

I could just whip up a 1920x1080 image in Photoshop with a cross-hair in the center...
post #1269 of 3881
Hello everyone, I'm an Italian boy! I would calibrate my Vpr hd350 on the software avshd709. Is there a guide? I do not know where to start. thank you very much
post #1270 of 3881
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

a bulls-eye/cross-hair right in the center of the test pattern. This would ease placing the colorimeter in the exact same spot every time.

I use the small APL patterns to generally center the meter, because the middle measurement box is centered on the screen. I just use a couple pieces of tape on the cord to hold the meter, so it's possible to lift the meter and not have it move much. Off-hand I don't remember how the black box lines up on the sharpness pattern, but that might be an option to put a couple white lines inside the square.
post #1271 of 3881
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by braandon View Post

Is there a guide? I do not know where to start.

See the PDF attached to the first post for general instructions on the disk, or see the related links section for information on more advanced calibration items such as measurements with a colorimeter or spectroradiometer.
post #1272 of 3881
Thanks very much for including the 2.35:1 AR window with the circles and lines.This is perfect . I'll try it out this weekend and let you know how it works.

Question...I've downloaded the Zip file for the Disc logos but when I double click on the .png files there's a problem .They open OK into Irfanview and show 1/9 for pages , but when I try to page or scroll down to view them I get...

\\GettingStarted.pdf decode error "can't load Ghostscript (AFPL version) or Ghostscript error"

What are the procedures for getting these printed ? Some days I think I'm about as dumb as a bag of hammers

Scott..........................
post #1273 of 3881
Hi Guys,

Tom Huffman posted some thoughts regarding saturation scale here and also posted the xy coordinates for each Pri/Sec saturation field. He noted that the AVCHD fields were not very accurate. Would you guys have a chance to confirm? I'm using this disk to troubleshoot a CMS issue that I'm having and need to know how much error I'm introducing by using these fields. Thanks for V1.2. I think it's great.
post #1274 of 3881
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DIY Guy View Post
Tom Huffman posted some thoughts regarding saturation scale here and also posted the xy coordinates for each Pri/Sec saturation field. He noted that the AVCHD fields were not very accurate. Would you guys have a chance to confirm?
There are some further details in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=creating+test for how this disk is generally authored. To sum things up, we go from .tga images to .yuv files and then from there to video. To back-check we use a video decoder and do the process in reverse. So because our original files begin as images we generally use RGB values for determining the YCrCb for the video files.

In the case of the saturation patterns we used RGB values given by the ColorHCFR team, because the patterns were intended to go with their software. I don't think the discussion is in this thread, so it must have been by private message and I've since deleted it. The window images are attached and compressed with 7-zip, like with the main downloads. I think the images are accurate to the values given from the people that work on ColorHCFR, but anyone can take a look and comment on the 25%, 50%, or 75% RGB values - for example 25% yellow saturation would be y25.

 

Saturation.zip 184.96484375k . file
post #1275 of 3881
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott_R_K View Post

I've downloaded the Zip file for the Disc logos but when I double click on the .png files there's a problem .They open OK into Irfanview and show 1/9 for pages

Either the program doesn't like the images or the download was messed up. I downloaded the file on my other computer and it seemed to open fine in different programs that accept images, but I've never used Irfanview. Generally the labels is an area that hasn't been much developed, and the logo images were just added because they had been requested. I know that there are different programs for printing labels where you can import images, but I don't even own a printer so I can't comment on how well different programs work. Google returned such things as the following when I searched for freeware or shareware label maker software.
http://pressit.com/pressit_download.htm
http://www.acoustica.com/cd-label-maker/
http://www.cddvdlabelmaker.com/

There appear to be a number of options that will handle sizing the images and printing labels, but in general other people would be able to give better feedback than I can on such things.
post #1276 of 3881
Any one got material (test pattern) that can show side by side 709 vs xvycc ?
post #1277 of 3881
Tried playing this DVD with PowerDVD on my HTPC and it won't recognize the disc, says it's not valid. It's an LG BD drive. I can get the model number. Burned it to a DVD with ImgBurn, since Nero said it wasn't a valid format. Suggestions? Do I have to burn this to a BD? Seems silly, since it's such a small disc. I'm using an updated version of PowerDVD 7 (7.4 probably).
post #1278 of 3881
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCollum View Post

Tried playing this DVD with PowerDVD on my HTPC and it won't recognize the disc, says it's not valid... Burned it to a DVD with ImgBurn, since Nero said it wasn't a valid format.

I have Nero 8 and it will burn the AVCHD .iso file. You might want to check the md5 depending on what Nero version you tried. I know there were some issues with eariler Nero versions, so generally ImgBurn is the default recommendation.


Quote:


I'm using an updated version of PowerDVD 7 (7.4 probably).

The current PowerDVD 8 comparison sheet lists AVCHD. If you search this tread with "PowerDVD" there was a previous report of AVCHD playing or not playing depending on the software build.

If the md5 for the AVCHD .iso checks out and you burned using ImgBurn 2.4.1 or later using the PS3 example, then there are only two likely reasons why the disk wouldn't play. Either the PowerDVD software build doesn't support AVCHD, like the eariler report, or else it has to do with how the current disk is authored. I can't say the WinDVD trial likes either the current build or AVCHD in general, based on my quick look, so either is possible. v1.0 was authored differently if the md5 for the .iso checks out and you verified the burn with the current version.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/ezc4ye or http://www.sendspace.com/file/ezc4ye

EDIT: Here is an interesting report http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.ph...83#post1239183 Basically he says that his version of PowerDVD will play AVCHD if you add an empty \\BDMV\\AUXDATA folder to the disc. On the other hand apparently the folder stops the standalone from playing. This seems very odd behavior from PowerDVD if that's true, because most commercial software that authors to AVCHD doesn't include that folder from what I remember.
post #1279 of 3881
BTW - Thanks for the efforts.

C.
post #1280 of 3881
The AVCHD logo is in the splash screen for PowerDVD, so I'm assuming it's supported. I'm using 7.3. I submitted a support ticket about the empty folder, we'll see how it goes. Thanks for the help.

Edit: this guy says that all the movie files have to be .mpg: http://manifest-tech.com/blog/2007/0...with_today.php. Dated 12/2007.

I tried using the v1 version (with the link you gave me) and I'm still getting an "unsupported format" error in PowerDVD 7.3 (using Daemon Tools, didn't burn it yet). Same error as the new version of AVS HD.
post #1281 of 3881
With the AVCHD 1.2 I am having problem with menus on PowerDVD8, they come up as black on black. The tests themselves works fine. I did not have any problem with previous version AVCHD 1.0.
The disk works fine on my standalone player Sony BDP-S350. So it is something in the color mapping of the menus that PowerDVD does not like.

For the people that have problem with PowerDVD, I think that you need a blu-ray player hardware because PowerDVD will not do AVCHD on a DVD player altough burned on a DVD+R.

Using: software: PowerDVD 8.0.2217a.00
Hardware: LG GGW-H20L
post #1282 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

In the case of the saturation patterns we used RGB values given by the ColorHCFR team, because the patterns were intended to go with their software.

Is there someone on this site that I can ask about the x, y saturation locations for the HCFR software?

Thanks for helping on this.

Dan
post #1283 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

Is there someone on this site that I can ask about the x, y saturation locations for the HCFR software?

Thanks for helping on this.

Dan

You could ask laric here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...983943&page=21

What specifically do you want to know? Just the x,y locations, or why they are where they are?
post #1284 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

You could ask laric here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...983943&page=21

What specifically do you want to know? Just the x,y locations, or why they are where they are?

There's a type-o in your sig. "small" should be "smell"
post #1285 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

You could ask laric here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...983943&page=21

What specifically do you want to know? Just the x,y locations, or why they are where they are?

Just the x, y locations and the targeted Y for each color, at each saturation. I just want to make sure my assumptions are correct for the x,y locations when I'm calibrating. This is where I'm assuming they are supposed to be located based on my calculations. Can you confirm?

Code:
Code:
Sat     Color   x       y
100%    Red     0.6400  0.3300
75%     Red     0.5582  0.3298
50%     Red     0.4764  0.3295
25%     Red     0.3945  0.3293
100%    Green   0.3000  0.6000
75%     Green   0.3032  0.5323
50%     Green   0.3064  0.4645
25%     Green   0.3095  0.3968
100%    Blue    0.1500  0.0600
75%     Blue    0.1907  0.1273
50%     Blue    0.2314  0.1945
25%     Blue    0.2720  0.2618
100%    Yellow  0.4193  0.5053
75%     Yellow  0.3927  0.4612
50%     Yellow  0.3660  0.4172
25%     Yellow  0.3394  0.3731
100%    Cyan    0.2246  0.3287
75%     Cyan    0.2466  0.3288
50%     Cyan    0.2687  0.3289
25%     Cyan    0.2907  0.3289
100%    Magenta 0.3209  0.1542
75%     Magenta 0.3189  0.1979
50%     Magenta 0.3168  0.2416
25%     Magenta 0.3148  0.2853
        White   0.3127  0.3290
Dan
post #1286 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by daMaster View Post

There's a type-o in your sig. "small" should be "smell"

lol, its kind of an inside joke. If you want a good laugh read this:

http://lonelymachines.org/mall-ninjas/

My other hobby is firearms, and the quote in my sig is from a guy known as "The Mall Ninja." Evidently he is/was a mall security guard whose mall was overtaken every night by the Italian Mob, drug dealers, the CIA, and even small country militaries.

The quote is correct, which tells you exactly how stupid (and funny) he is. Thanks for pointing it out tho

By the way, if you read it, saying an SW is better than an HK is like saying an Insignia LCD is better than a Kuro.
post #1287 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by stereomandan View Post

Just the x, y locations and the targeted Y for each color, at each saturation. I just want to make sure my assumptions are correct for the x,y locations when I'm calibrating. This is where I'm assuming they are supposed to be located based on my calculations. Can you confirm?

Code:
Code:
Sat     Color   x       y
100%    Red     0.6400  0.3300
75%     Red     0.5582  0.3298
50%     Red     0.4764  0.3295
25%     Red     0.3945  0.3293
100%    Green   0.3000  0.6000
75%     Green   0.3032  0.5323
50%     Green   0.3064  0.4645
25%     Green   0.3095  0.3968
100%    Blue    0.1500  0.0600
75%     Blue    0.1907  0.1273
50%     Blue    0.2314  0.1945
25%     Blue    0.2720  0.2618
100%    Yellow  0.4193  0.5053
75%     Yellow  0.3927  0.4612
50%     Yellow  0.3660  0.4172
25%     Yellow  0.3394  0.3731
100%    Cyan    0.2246  0.3287
75%     Cyan    0.2466  0.3288
50%     Cyan    0.2687  0.3289
25%     Cyan    0.2907  0.3289
100%    Magenta 0.3209  0.1542
75%     Magenta 0.3189  0.1979
50%     Magenta 0.3168  0.2416
25%     Magenta 0.3148  0.2853
        White   0.3127  0.3290
Dan

They look right to me, assuming that just computing the distance along the line between the white point and selected secondary/primary is the correct thing to do. That is how I would do it.

I do remember something coming up when we were first looking at saturation patterns. We did something wrong and had to get some help from the ColorHCFR guys. From what I remember it had to do with converting x,y coordinates in to an RGB triplet, not with calculating the x,y coordinates themselves.

Are you in that thread where Tom suggests the AVSHD patterns aren't accurate? Do his numbers match up with yours?
post #1288 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by tranle View Post

For the people that have problem with PowerDVD, I think that you need a blu-ray player hardware because PowerDVD will not do AVCHD on a DVD player altough burned on a DVD+R.

Seems that it won't work on an AVCHD disc that's running via DaemonTools either.
post #1289 of 3881
Quote:
Originally Posted by hwjohn View Post

They look right to me, assuming that just computing the distance along the line between the white point and selected secondary/primary is the correct thing to do. That is how I would do it.

I do remember something coming up when we were first looking at saturation patterns. We did something wrong and had to get some help from the ColorHCFR guys. From what I remember it had to do with converting x,y coordinates in to an RGB triplet, not with calculating the x,y coordinates themselves.

Are you in that thread where Tom suggests the AVSHD patterns aren't accurate? Do his numbers match up with yours?

Thanks for the feedback.

Yes, I am in that thread, but Tom and I use different measurement hardware (i1pro(Tom), and i1LT(me), and different displays(Sharp20000(Tom), Epson 1080UB(me)) to measure from.

After performing some of my own calculations, I am very confident that my table above is correct, and that the AVSHD is correct as well. Based on my assumptions of how the saturation and luminance points were set, I created my own calculations of how to measure saturation error, and also dE. It lines up perfectly with the results we get in HCFR. This means that my assumptions of the location of the points are correct. Based on how well the results from my display track my assumptions, I feel that there isn't much reason for me to doubt the AVSHD disc.

I'll be following up with Tom, but I don't have the time tonight.

Dan
post #1290 of 3881
Has anyone found any differences between AVS HD 709 disc at DVE HD basics at 30 ire?

In this post it appears as if DVE HD basics has a higher red reading at 30 ire than AVS HD disc and getgrey.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post15597348

The question which one is correct?

Daniel
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