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AVS HD 709 - Blu-ray & MP4 Calibration - Page 61

post #1801 of 3625
10/2/09 at 12:24pm
I just burned the MP4 files onto a DVD-R for my Xbox 360 and then had the xbox do the update to play the video files. A problem I'm am facing is that sometimes I have to skip twice to get to the next pattern like with the Basic Settings.mp4 and with the 10% Grayscale.mp4 under ColorHCFR Fields there is a jump from 50% to 70% when skipping (and it quickly & automatically skips from 50% to 60% in between). In other words, I have to press pause quickly upon reaching 50% then resume to let it automatically go to 60% then press skip to go to 70%. Another example would be that 10% Grayscale.mp4 under CalMAN Fields skipped in 20% (mostly) increments, not 10%.

These are just a few examples; I noticed many other mp4 files in the collection skipped erratically, sometimes jumping over entire chapters.
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post #1802 of 3625
10/3/09 at 11:09am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

These are just a few examples; I noticed many other mp4 files in the collection skipped erratically, sometimes jumping over entire chapters.

MP4 doesn't allow for chapters. I think there are computer programs that can be used to simulate chapters, but it's not the sort of thing that would work with the 360. The MP4 is just the video from the AVCHD that's encoded to a different container. Probably individual clips for each pattern would be easier to use, but that's a lot more work to create.
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post #1803 of 3625
10/3/09 at 11:20am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by gazaman View Post

i'm using a LG BD360 blu-ray player (which is the same as the BD370) which then goes to my sony HTSF1300 amp by HDMI and then to my LGPS3000 by HDMI. I've tried connecting the blu ray player directly to my tv and missing out the amp but it makes no difference.

The player should probably be sending the full-range, so most likely the TV is clipping below-black. Some TVs may have settings to avoid this, while others may not. I'm not familiar with your display, so I can't say what yours does.

The brightness control on a digital display basically determines where the darkest level appears. Too much brightness and the black level will be unnecessarily raised. Brighness too low and you will lose near black detail. So the main point of the patterns for setting brightness is to choose a midpoint between those two issues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gazaman View Post

Will the basic ones be enough or are there any in the misc section that you would say are essential?

To start just figure out how to use the basic settings section. The misc patterns are generally intended for different specific issues.
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post #1804 of 3625
10/3/09 at 8:39pm
Just a quick question about burning the HDMV patterns. I have a BD burner on the way and I just downloaded and unzipped the HDMV patterns. It unzipped to 2 main folders... BDMV & CERTIFICATE. Do both folders need to burned to a BD disc or just the BDMV folder ?
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post #1805 of 3625
10/4/09 at 7:34am
Thread Starter 
Honestly it might play either way, but I'm not aware of any reason not to just burn both.
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post #1806 of 3625
10/6/09 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

Honestly it might play either way, but I'm not aware of any reason not to just burn both.

Thanks, I'll burn both files and hope to get it right the first time. I don't want to create a $5 coaster.

For anyone that has created a BD calibration disc, what program did you use to burn the disc ? I'm not sure what, if any, software will come with my LG drive.
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post #1807 of 3625
10/6/09 at 7:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

Thanks, I'll burn both files and hope to get it right the first time. I don't want to create a $5 coaster.

For anyone that has created a BD calibration disc, what program did you use to burn the disc ? I'm not sure what, if any, software will come with my LG drive.

Most people burn to a DVD.

-Bill
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post #1808 of 3625
10/7/09 at 5:58am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stash64 View Post

For anyone that has created a BD calibration disc, what program did you use to burn the disc ? I'm not sure what, if any, software will come with my LG drive.

I just burn to BD-RE using Windows Explorer from Vista or Windows 7, but I might also have used Imgburn at some point.
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post #1809 of 3625
10/7/09 at 11:35am
Just burned the HDMV (BDMV and CERTIFICATE folders) to a DVD-R using ImgBurn. It asked something about using Blu-ray/UDF formatting and I said yes. It shows up as a data disc on my PS3 and appears to be completely useless. Did I do something wrong or is it because I used a DVD-R and not a BD-R or BD-RE?

On a more positive note, I can confirm that the v1.3b PATCHED version does indeed work with a DVD+RW on the PS3, but the pop-ups still don't work. I will try using the DVD+RW to get the HDMV version to work but it make take a bit of experimentation with the UDF version.
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post #1810 of 3625
10/7/09 at 4:23pm
Thread Starter 
The PS3 will not play HDMV from DVD media, only BD-RE or BD-R. The PS3 requires some AVCHD-related information to play an HD disc from DVD media, unless you want to just play the individual stream files.
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post #1811 of 3625
10/7/09 at 4:25pm
Is that the case with most Blu-ray players or does this just apply to the PS3?
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post #1812 of 3625
10/7/09 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Is that the case with most Blu-ray players or does this just apply to the PS3?

See the first post in this thread for a table of players.

EDIT: Oops, I see the table does not address BD-R vs DVD.

-Bill
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post #1813 of 3625
10/7/09 at 5:03pm
Thread Starter 
Unlike the US PS3 some players can play HDMV from DVD media, but they would also play either AVCHD or Patched.
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post #1814 of 3625
10/8/09 at 1:33pm
Just out of curiosity, has anyone got the pop-up menus to work with their PS3? I referring to the PATCHED version in particular but am also curious about the HDMV version as well.

(Since I don't have a Blu-ray burner, I'm restricted to the PATCHED version though.)
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post #1815 of 3625
10/9/09 at 7:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

I just burn to BD-RE using Windows Explorer from Vista or Windows 7, but I might also have used Imgburn at some point.

I can report that HDMV on a BD-R works fine with the Panasonic BD-35 player, although I do see a lot of flicker from my Panny plasma's 48p output. I don't notice the flicker during regular movie-watching but I suppose it is more noticable with the calibration disc simply because of all the static images. Also, this is what I wanted... to be able to perform the calibration in the same 48p output in which I watch BD movies. The Panny BD-35 would only output in 60p when using the DVD calibration disc.

As a side note, I am very happy with the LG BD burner (model WH08LS20K) and also pleasantly surprised with the packaged software suite that came with the drive. The CyberLink software included a BD player (PowerDVD) and a burner (Power2Go), among other tools. The player and burner were both very easy to use and set up and worked perfectly from the start. I burned my HDMV calibration disc using the CyberLink program.
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post #1816 of 3625
10/9/09 at 10:40pm
A few questions...

If I were to calibrate my display with the 709 patterns using PS3, will this give me the best picture for hd games as well as blu-ray via PS3? Would it be ideal for Xbox 360 games as well?

I'm guessing gaming with the Wii is best left to Rec. 601 correct?

Lastly, if I have a component input calibrated with 601 patterns for ntsc dvd playback via an Oppo player, will pal dvds look fine with same player as well or am I going to need 2 inputs calibrated for this since I don't feel like changing settings all the time?

Thanks.
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post #1817 of 3625
10/12/09 at 6:41am
When/if the disc is revised, I would really like to see a 1-pixel RGB crosshatch pattern like this: http://www.avforum.no/forum/images/A...0/Z2000_60.jpg

Thanks,
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post #1818 of 3625
10/22/09 at 4:17am
Just wanted to say a big thanks to the authors of AVS HD
I find it a tremendous resource, and with the pop-up menus on the Patched version it is even more of a joy to use. Great work.

Iain
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post #1819 of 3625
11/1/09 at 1:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

KNOWN ISSUES
The unresolved items we are aware of are listed here.
1) Through measurements it appears the luma values for this disc may be slightly different than those used in the Digital Video Essentials HD Basics Blu-ray - see these measurements for further information. In use it appears this item may change the second decimal point reported for gamma in measurements when compared to using Digital Video Essentials as a reference.

Can you tell me which transfer function are you using for mastering your test images? From some tests I have performed, after some problems described by one user of these patterns, it appears you are not using the exact BT.709 transfer function, but only an approximation. Perhaps is this the reason for the small differences you are getting when comparing with DVE.
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post #1820 of 3625
11/2/09 at 6:02am
Thread Starter 
The authoring process is lised in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post16837914.
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post #1821 of 3625
11/2/09 at 4:00pm
I have some "simple" questions.

I'm calibrating in a Samsung LCD.

- When setting black levels, do I have to BARELY see the 17 bar flashing, or CLEARLY see it?

- When setting the contrast. I don't fully understand what's better: 235 flashing, or give it a little overhead (as some people say, set it to 240 or 245).

Thanks
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post #1822 of 3625
11/2/09 at 5:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

The authoring process is lised in http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...4#post16837914.

Thanks.
I've looked into it and there is no problem related with the transfer function, because the test images were not created in linear light.
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post #1823 of 3625
11/2/09 at 5:14pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Polcius View Post

- When setting black levels, do I have to BARELY see the 17 bar flashing, or CLEARLY see it?

You don't want to be able to clearly see 17 on the black clipping pattern, but being able to make out any change at all confirms that the display is receiving the entire range down to black. The commercial disks have the first level above black in the 19 to 21 range, so that's around were you should be able to make out a bit of flashing on the APL pattern. THE MAIN IDEA is to set the brightness control as low as possible, and the patterns are basically a guide to keep from going too low. A major item to avoid would be setting brightness too high, which would make black lighter and could cause the 2-16 range to start flashing.

Quote:


- When setting the contrast. I don't fully understand what's better: 235 flashing, or give it a little overhead (as some people say, set it to 240 or 245).

This is really the sort of thing where a measurement device like a colorimeter can be useful. If 235 is the brightest level that will give you the highest contrast possible, but it might also cause problems. For example on my TV if I clip above 234 the display is not capable of delivering the expected brightness difference approaching white (gamma falls near white), and the shade of gray changes near white (color shift). So for my TV it's generally better to avoid clipping right at white. If a particular display didn't have any issues with clipping at white I think that's reasonable from what I've seen with the commercial video I've looked at, but generally I would tend toward clipping nearer 240 or 245 than right at 235 without having any information beyond the Basic or Misc sections of this disc. Beyond that, measurements would give more exact information on how different particular displays perform.
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post #1824 of 3625
11/3/09 at 2:20pm
Playing the Sharpness and Overscan pattern (mp4) on my Xbox 360, I didn't see the thin white border around the edge of the screen. Output was 1080p and I tried messing with the aspect ratio options on the Xbox 360. It did no good. So, does the Xbox 360 have a smidgen of overscan regardless of settings/1080p output or could it be something else? Anyone with a Xbox 360 notice this issue or able to see the thin white border around the extreme edges of the screen?
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post #1825 of 3625
11/3/09 at 3:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

You don't want to be able to clearly see 17 on the black clipping pattern, but being able to make out any change at all confirms that the display is receiving the entire range down to black. The commercial disks have the first level above black in the 19 to 21 range, so that's around were you should be able to make out a bit of flashing on the APL pattern. THE MAIN IDEA is to set the brightness control as low as possible, and the patterns are basically a guide to keep from going too low. A major item to avoid would be setting brightness too high, which would make black lighter and could cause the 2-16 range to start flashing.



This is really the sort of thing where a measurement device like a colorimeter can be useful. If 235 is the brightest level that will give you the highest contrast possible, but it might also cause problems. For example on my TV if I clip above 234 the display is not capable of delivering the expected brightness difference approaching white (gamma falls near white), and the shade of gray changes near white (color shift). So for my TV it's generally better to avoid clipping right at white. If a particular display didn't have any issues with clipping at white I think that's reasonable from what I've seen with the commercial video I've looked at, but generally I would tend toward clipping nearer 240 or 245 than right at 235 without having any information beyond the Basic or Misc sections of this disc. Beyond that, measurements would give more exact information on how different particular displays perform.

Ok, very well explained, thank you.
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post #1826 of 3625
11/6/09 at 2:37pm
O.k., tried to burn the BR version AVCHD(.exe) and thought it was good, but my BR player says no content on disc.
My player is the Panny BD60 and will play AVCHD.

I downloaded it with winrar and attempted a few times to burn with nero. Somewhere along the line I am getting messed up......help would be appreciared!
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post #1827 of 3625
11/6/09 at 3:52pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

AVCHD(.exe)

I downloaded it with winrar and attempted a few times to burn with nero.

If you downloaded the .exe there is no need for a program like winrar. The .exe should decompress to a .iso by executing the file on a windows computer. As long as Nero is version 8 or 9 it should work for the burn step. Basically the process is:

1) Run .exe
2) Burn resulting .iso with Nero to DVD writable media

If you want to check the resulting disc on your computer then Windows XP by default will not be able to read the disc, while Vista or Windows 7 should show a BDMV directory if you open the disc in Windows Explorer.
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post #1828 of 3625
11/6/09 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alluringreality View Post

If you downloaded the .exe there is no need for a program like winrar. The .exe should decompress to a .iso by executing the file on a windows computer. As long as Nero is version 8 or 9 it should work for the burn step. Basically the process is:

1) Run .exe
2) Burn resulting .iso with Nero to DVD writable media

If you want to check the resulting disc on your computer then Windows XP by default will not be able to read the disc, while Vista or Windows 7 should show a BDMV directory if you open the disc in Windows Explorer.

O.k., tried it again per your instructions....after it finsihed it popped up a box saying
7-zip self extracting file(extract or cancel)
I'm guessing I should extract??
I have Vista and a DVD-RW.
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post #1829 of 3625
11/6/09 at 5:20pm
Thread Starter 
Yes extract just means to decompress the file, which will give an .iso to burn. I made a few changes to the section of the main post now titled "EXAMPLE FOR WINDOWS COMPUTERS". That's the basic procedure, and it just uses ImgBurn instead of Nero.
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post #1830 of 3625
11/6/09 at 9:24pm
Well, i got the iso into nero and burned it. Took a little while and i watched the progress.
When finished it popped out of my laptop(DVD-RW) and I threw it in my Panny BD60.
BD60 says "Nothing Recorded" when I press play ??
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