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Future proof distribution planning - Page 2

post #31 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenear View Post

... Edit: just read one of their white papers and yes, their TX6000 UTP is verified to be 10GigE capable at distances of 37 meters or less. Any distance greater than that and you need to step up to their 6 augmented product.

Would laying in more than one of such cables now help protect from the future "unknown"? For example: If a single wire has 1/2 the needed bandwidth, would 2 of these wires work?

If so, what cable, and how many? (6 augmented? x ??)
post #32 of 89
^^^that's a good question and one that I don't think anyone could really answer with absolute certainty because in order for it to work, there would have to be a product created specifically to suit that purpose under those conditions. And of course there would have to be a market for that product in order for someone to invest the capital to build it.

FWIW, it seems that there is a need, today, for two runs of catx cable for some HDMI baluns. Of course, what is the max bandwidth capabilities of those baluns and at what max distance? I don't think I've ever read exacting spec's on any of this stuff. But it's beginning to become more and more relevant. Just today I read a white paper from TI proving how one of their chipsets was 1.3 compliant in terms of signaling bandwidth requirements...something like 2.25 Gb/s for 1080p @ 60 fps w/30(?) bit color depth. Of course that color depth is already spec'd out to 40 bit, and we're looking at the strong possibility of stepping the max rez to 1440 at some point in the near future. That would push things closer to that 10 Gb/s bandwidth number from what I've read.

So where does that leave us for distributed HDMI video? I don't think anyone can really answer right now. This whole thing is a moving target and has been since its inception. And this is what is pissing a lot of people off at this point, and we're not even talking about HDCP issues here - just the base functionality of the HDMI spec.

I'm in the same quandry as everyone else. One nice thing about the structured cabling is that it's cheap. If you don't need the plenum rated wire, then you can get 1k ft of very good cat 6 for <$200. Even the 10Gig 6 augmented from Panduit is only ~$350/1k ft. So just run as much as you want for those prices.

It's kinda funny because we're figuring out that we can push the #'s higher on the older stuff after the spec is finalized. This happened with 1Gig over 5e, it's happening with 10GigE over 6, and so I expect it to happen to some extent with the 6+ product. It's just that those added benefits will probably not extend to the standard 100 meters per ethernet spec. That just isn't a problem in most residential installs, however.

So I'm perfectly content sticking with the standard 250 MHz spec'd cat 6 wire at this point. My distributor doesn't even stock Panduit's 10Gig 6+ wire right now, and I'm not about to order 18K ft, just to have them get it in, LOL. Alien crosstalk seems to be the big brick wall with the unshielded 6 wire for 10Gig applications. But I'm not about to go with shielded in the home with all of the grounding hassles that are associated with that product. And I don't think I'm in the minority on that one.
post #33 of 89
Interesting hearing this from both sides of the fence. I, myself, centrally locate all equipment based on sharing and, largely, clean flat panel installs. This means no equipment in the room or being hidden somewhere in the room. Just a TV on the wall.

However, while the cabling is extremely cheap, don't forget the costs of the headend equipment, such as the switcher and IR/serial distribution. THAT is where the cost is.
post #34 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Do you know of any conduit that can be used in retrofitting an existing house? (Without, that is, completely tearing up all the walls and/or floors and/or ceilings involved.)

It really depends on your situation. There are several flavors of flexible conduit that could be retrofit if you had access to the top plates of the walls (from an attic for example). Of course if you have access to the top plates you really don't need conduit so it is some what of a catch 22. I would think with some creativity you could greatly minimize the required destruction.

I ran 2 3 inch conduits from my 1st floor equipment closet to the attic and a single conduit from every 1st floor computer and TV location to the attic. I had the benefit of open walls however as this was new construction.

Good Luck!
post #35 of 89
I guess the OP is still confused

Honestly there will never be a true common use in the next 10-20 years for this 10GigE stuff being talked about it so can we just move on and stop the confusion? I wonder what the cost is?

HDMI over cat5e works and even HDMI 1.3 will work, Component video over cat5e works. BOTH give you 1080p if you have the right equipment.


In the end we can always send HD over component video if HDMI changes, we can just use a HD fury stripper and convert VGA to Component.

This is truely the only "future" Wiring possibilities with any sort of economical sense.

Quote:


I'm pretty sure that HDMI 1.3 throughput exceeds 1Gb/s TODAY!, so there goes your cat 6 generic cabling for HDMI 1.3 baluns.

That is a very interesting statement so HDMI 1.1 and HDMI 1.2 baluns exist but HDMI 1.3 baluns dont? I guess I will do some searching. I think Key-digital says they have HDMI 1.3 baluns that run over cat5e...maybe your numbers are wrong?

This seems to be the same type of information someone was telling about component video cabling and that it doesnt do 1080p. Sometimes its better to test myself then to take any opinion on the subject.
post #36 of 89
Quote:


such as the switcher and IR/serial distribution. THAT is where the cost is.

Very true, professional jobs can run $10K up and beyond $100K depending on the needs (Touchscreens, K-Scape stuff, etc).

DIY jobs can be much cheaper because we use Ebay, etc. My full 8 zones HD video/audio distribution solution was in the range of $4-6K and that was with extra equipment not used now (not including TVs).
post #37 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by video321 View Post

Interesting hearing this from both sides of the fence. I, myself, centrally locate all equipment based on sharing and, largely, clean flat panel installs. This means no equipment in the room or being hidden somewhere in the room. Just a TV on the wall.

However, while the cabling is extremely cheap, don't forget the costs of the headend equipment, such as the switcher and IR/serial distribution. THAT is where the cost is.

Would you mind elaborating on what this equipment is (switcher and IR/serial distribution)? Please include some product/brand names and approximate costs if you are willing. I wouldn't even think of bothering you for links.
post #38 of 89
Good thread here. Good reading for me since I currently live in an apartment and am planning on doing A/V distribution when I buy a house. It's nice to hear someone on the other side of the fence.

Personally, the main reason I got into all of this was from reading Penngray's posts. I would love to be able to hit the pause button on my Xbox 360 controller, press a button on a touchscreen, and continue my game in a different room because my wife wanted to use the TV I was using. That means whole house A/V distribution.

Trying to future-proof is all well and good, but you have to look at what you want to do today and how much use you will get out of it starting now. I'd rather do something now and know that I can enjoy it for 5-10 years, than do something now that I can't really fully enjoy for another 5 years and that's assuming the technology will be there to do it (i.e. IPTV). Yes, you could have 1 media server and a media client next to each TV. Do you really want to maintain that many systems? No media server in existence is 100% reliable. They all require work. I'd rather maintain 1 or 2, in the basement, than have to maintain 5-8.

When it comes down to it, a TV will always require a video feed going into it. That will require some sort of box. Would you rather have a box sitting next to each and every TV, or only a couple of them sitting in one location, hidden away.
post #39 of 89
The key piece to the puzzle is the matrix switcher by Autopatch, Extron, Shinybow, Neothings, etc. You can do a quick search in this forum and find lots of info. Prices all depend on how many ins/outs and bandwidth is required and will range from less than $200 to the thousands. Without this, centrally located equipment is futile.

If you're lucky you may be able to score a high-end switcher off ebay. However, that is more the exception than the rule.
post #40 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray View Post

I guess the OP is still confused

Honestly there will never be a true common use in the next 10-20 years for this 10GigE stuff being talked about it so can we just move on and stop the confusion? I wonder what the cost is?

I'm sure that was the prevailing opinion when Gigabit Ethernet came out eight years ago when NIC's were priced at >$1,000 ea. Today, you can pick up an SMC 1Gig card for $13.00, and quality 24-port HP ProCurve switches are <$300.

Regarding the confusion here, no one should be confused because what I'm talking about is the bandwidth capabilities of the UTP cable being used to distribute digital data. This is extremely relevant because that bandwidth capacity is limited based upon both distance and the characteristics of the cable itself and that's what is going to eventually determine what works and doesn't work.

Quote:


HDMI over cat5e works and even HDMI 1.3 will work, Component video over cat5e works. BOTH give you 1080p if you have the right equipment.

1080p at what frame rate and what color bit depth? 48 bit color depth is already in the 1.3 spec. Go ahead and try to push 1920x1080p @ 60 fps & 40 bit color over 100MHz spec'd cat 5e for 1000 ft (common advertising claim) and see what happens. You better have 3 Gb/s worth of bandwidth in that cable from terminator to terminator.

Quote:


In the end we can always send HD over component video if HDMI changes, we can just use a HD fury stripper and convert VGA to Component.

Right, and then you give up arguably the single most valuable attribute of the hi def discs - lossless audio.

Quote:


That is a very interesting statement so HDMI 1.1 and HDMI 1.2 baluns exist but HDMI 1.3 baluns dont? I guess I will do some searching. I think Key-digital says they have HDMI 1.3 baluns that run over cat5e...maybe your numbers are wrong?

Nope, my numbers aren't wrong. Perhaps you should ask Key-digital what the maximum throughput their baluns will support over 5e at whatever distance is relevant to you, because that's what matters. HDMI 1.3 includes color bit depths of 24, 30, 36, and 48. The bandwidth required to push 48 bits vs. 24 bits is 2x, yielding a relative clock rate of almost 300 MHz. Yet cat5e is only swept out to 100 MHz. So perhaps you can explain to me how their product is going to support the max bandwidth specified within HDMI 1.3 TODAY over cat5e...

Next up is 2560x1440 and then you're going to have recalculate all of the above using that resolution. Without doing the math, I'm gonna bet that regular 250MHz cat 6 is going to have problems supporting that rez @ 60fps using deep color over lengthy runs. And this is where your augmented 6 wire comes into play. Anyone banking on 5e today is gonna be SOL.

I'm not here to argue with people about this stuff. My point all along has been you'd better get the whole story about these infrastructure components before just accepting what someone says on the surface. Fortunately with the nature of digital, it's pretty much basic math so it's not too difficult for anyone to educate themselves on this topic.
post #41 of 89
Quote:


Right, and then you give up arguably the single most valuable attribute of the hi def discs - lossless audio.

That is definitely subjective, like the majority of the population I dont care about lossless audio, heck transformers on HD didnt even have a lossless track and it won awards. Most people dont even have a system capable of playing that audio stuff properly. Dolby Digital rocks and I wont care about the others stuff the same goes for 1440 resolution.

Blind tests have show that color depth changes arent that meaningful to most people, yeah you can see the difference, color banding and so on, the same subjective issues about fps stuff can be debated forever. The reality is that cat5e will handle 99% of any of our needs for years to come.

I still stand behind the point that for future proofing a person just needs to run lots of cat5e or cat6 because the reality is very few people care about Frames per second, lossless audio on movies and color depth. Heck less then 15% of the population even has HD!

In the end its up to the OP on what he cares about and he should know that the difference between dolby digital and lossless is very, very small, the difference between 1080p24 and 1080p60 is laughable and we already know 1080i and 1080p are the same on good TVs. Since all these great and wonderful things arent very different why spend the premium trying to obtain them?
post #42 of 89
^^^^Well, the title of the thread is "future proof distro planning," LOL! The one point that I will strongly disagree with you on is that cat 5e is going to be good enough for years to come. Look, you're going to pay about a $30 premium/1k ft. for 6 (PVC jacket), so why would anyone ever use 5e today?! Plus, IMO, it's actually much easier to work with because the cable itself is much beefier so it resists the kinking and crimping problems associated with cat 5(e) cable. And if you can get the 6+, then go that route. Like I said, I was quoted ~$355/1k ft. for the Panduit 6+ cable. Very cheap insurance IMO.
post #43 of 89
Quote:


The one point that I will strongly disagree with you on is that cat 5e is going to be good enough for years to come.

Fair enough, I strongly disagree with you too

I guess we can come back here in 10 years and post our results. You are aware that the term "good enough" is purely subjective though so the results will vary based on the opinion of each person. Heck in 10 to 15 years wireless will probably be the norm so who cares about wires.

I believe that we can only future proof with products that are truely available today. If Im wiring today or next week I need to know what I can do now not what the hypotheticals are. You are 100% correct about everything you posted but the problem here is that your recommendations are not readily available.

cat5e or cat6 is fine, I will be fine 10 to 15 years from now. I will still have video that I can watch in 1080p or 1080i with digital audio.

IF new technology changes things then cat5e can transport it because compression WILL ALWAYS exist hence they will take the data and compress it so it can be sent over Gigibit speeds. People are not going to re-wire houses just because they have cat5e, it doesnt work that way and companies that make the products know this.

Future proofing today is essentially running cat5e or cat6 ( I dont care which one honestly) and 6+ isnt available most places.


Quote:


And if you can get the 6+, then go that route. Like I said, I was quoted ~$355/1k ft. for the Panduit 6+ cable. Very cheap insurance IMO.

Kind of like buying warranties on most products, relatively cheap but never used
post #44 of 89
Howdy. Somehow, updates to this thread stopped coming to my inbox. Sorry I missed out on the discussion.

Yeah, your system definitely has more flexibility and more advantages right now. There's no question about that.

One thing I should have mentioned is that this is an existing house. We are putting in wood floors upstairs, hence the opportunity to put in new wires.


key word: opportunity

But my argument is that you are talking about legacy equipment and legacy means of content distribution. Like I said above, I don't think physical media is going to be an issue five years from now. Heck, if I went with Netflix, right now I could have some sort of IPTV system going. Netflix of course offers downloadable content.

But you still have to send it to where you'll be viewing it, unless you will be viewing from your computer screen only

Good point about the Netflix situation.

For now, I am willing to put up with DVD players in different locations. As far as DVRs, it would be nice to network them but I don't know if it's feasible for me since like I said, we have three people who watch independently. And almost always, watch in the same locations of this house. That will probably change when our primary media room is configured in a couple years, when we have the huge TV in there and all the bells and whistles.

So you are adding locations and you are looking at the future. We do not differ in that way. Which is why I named this thread that way when I started it. I'm looking for answers too. Trying to understand.

So in my mind, my biggest problem is that I might have a show on one DVR that I can't watch in a different room.

That and a DVR for every room, and the need to run cable to the DVR anyway. And the need to phyically go to each room to record what you want recorded. What about DVD? Will they be high def (BR or HD DVD?) expensive.

I am running RG6 coax and Cat6 cabling to each location. I think that will be enough to do what I want to do now and into the future.

I don't see DVR makers implementing home networking due to DRM issues. Definitely Directv and Dish and Comcast will not put home networking into their DVRs any time soon. With Tivos you can do this, but obviously with Tivo there is a lot of hassle with connecting to sources, etc.

Actually DirecTV HD DVR's already do let you send over ethernet and you can send over component. Both. Right now. I have one. But you're right to worry about DRM. Even now HDMI connections are HDCP compliant, and there is apparently concern that component (analog) can't have this protection. I see that there has been talk for awhile about defeating that ability of component distribution. Hasn't happened. Yet. Also there are ethernet cat5e with baluns solutions that enable using cat 5e wires.

This is great news for me. If this is true, then I can connect the DVRs over my networked Cat6 and trade shows over the network among the DVRs. Doesn't this accomplish what has been suggested with other wires?

Again, what I see coming down the pike is IPTV over Ethernet. And if a media server that does everything I want comes on the market, I can plug that into my existing LAN and pipe photos, music, movies, and TV across the network and into every TV over the Ethernet. That's really what I am looking at.

Ah! So you are going to install ethernet cables while you are doing this construction to be ready for when "the day" gets here? IPTV will only be an new way to get the signal to your house. This whole thread is how to distribute it inside, which is something that applies to both now and the future. Doesn't it?

As I see it, component cabling (and maybe HDMI over fiber which IS HDCP compliant) takes care of now and maybe 5-10 years into the future, and cat 5e or cat6? takes care of both now and the future most likely. I wonder about fiber.


I think you misunderstood me. I suppose in theory there is "IPTV" coming into the house from the provider and then what I am calling "IPTV" inside the house. The latter is what I am referring to. If the signal comes into the house over the Internet, why can't I send it to my sets over Ethernet? If it requires coax, I have the RG6. Like somebody else said, they're not going to make use rewire the whole house to accept a new stream.

For me, IPTV means that I will be watching my television and movies on my TV sets over an Ethernet connection. Content will be mostly distributed over Ethernet. Content can be shared because of the Ethernet. DVRs, media servers, computers can all be networked because of the Ethernet. Content is served over the Ethernet.

I don't see much use for analog cables beyond five years from now.

I have seen other estimates of up to 10 years, but even 5 is far enough into the future that planning both for "now" and "then" seems like a good idea, hence ... this thread.


I just think it is absurd to send HDMI or component or optical audio or component audio or whatever all these wires all over the house. Decode the content at the local point, if necessary. Trying to send all these cables around hoping to solve all the problems is hopeless, in my opinion.

Somebody said on this thread that Cat6 cable wouldn't be sufficient to stream high-def content. I would like to know where he gets his information. What is the theoretical throughput of Cat6? 250mhz? If so, that ought to be GOOD AND PLENTY to serve any kind of content that is currently under the ATSC standard, and that standard isn't going anywhere.

Further, content providers are compressing this stuff anyhow. Directv uses MP4. If I install a media server on my network and serve stuff over Ethernet, I'm quite confident that today's media codecs and future codecs will be easily streamed over Cat6. How high of resolution are you talking about? 250mhz isn't enough to stream massive MPEG-2 or MP4 files? I don't buy that.
post #45 of 89
Thread Starter 
This thread is awesome. Thank you guys for contributing so much understanding to all of us.

I found this about distribution on the Sound and Vision website.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/tut...on-system.html

I bring this up because I actually do already have coax running pretty much everywhere I need it in my house. Mostly single cables, but some doubles. Plus DirecTV now has SWM capability, so that 2 tuners at the HDDVR can be run from one coax. I'm thinking that maybe if I can live with coax for a few years, then "the future" will be close enough to see better. Perhaps another approach to "future proofing" is to settle for good enough for now, especially since no wiring is needed for now.

I can't tell if this is HD distro or just SD. I even looked at the two websites of the companies mentioned, and I still can't tell. I can more-or-less follow what you guys are saying, most of the time. But this TV/RF/modulation/etc stuff is like somebody speaking Klingon.

http://www.channelvision.com/
http://www.channelplus.com/
post #46 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradengelmann View Post

Somebody said on this thread that Cat6 cable wouldn't be sufficient to stream high-def content. I would like to know where he gets his information. What is the theoretical throughput of Cat6? 250mhz? If so, that ought to be GOOD AND PLENTY to serve any kind of content that is currently under the ATSC standard, and that standard isn't going anywhere.

First, what you were talking about in your original post to which I was replying was the idea of getting rid of the existing coax interface inside the home either on the television or the STB interfacing with either DBS or a cable feed and instead "plugging" content into your ethernet network. My response is no, it's not going to work because the bandwidth required to access all of the content simply isn't there in ANY structured twisted pair cable available today. So what's the alternative? Like I said, you interface with the provider's equipment instead.

If you've kept abreast of what the cable co's are doing right now, then I'm sure you have looked into the DOCSIS 3.0 platform that many are rolling out or planning to roll out quite soon. I believe the semiconductor industry has already designed chipsets to support clock rates of 1GHz on that platform. And I've read 3.0GHz has been tested in Israel earlier this year. Now maybe you can tell me how a 250 MHz UTP cable is going to support a 1-3 GHz application.

Quote:


Further, content providers are compressing this stuff anyhow. Directv uses MP4. If I install a media server on my network and serve stuff over Ethernet, I'm quite confident that today's media codecs and future codecs will be easily streamed over Cat6. How high of resolution are you talking about? 250mhz isn't enough to stream massive MPEG-2 or MP4 files? I don't buy that.

This makes me think we are talking about two different scenarios. Using STB's is a far cry from just plugging all of your TV's into an ethernet switch and surfing broadcast television.
post #47 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by bradengelmann View Post

I just think it is absurd to send HDMI or component or optical audio or component audio or whatever all these wires all over the house. Decode the content at the local point, if necessary. Trying to send all these cables around hoping to solve all the problems is hopeless, in my opinion.

So where are you going to put the DVD player, hi def player, DBS/cable co box & AVR when you mount your 60" plasma above your fireplace? Entertainment centers are yesteryear. Having a clean, finished look is the way to go today with these lightweight flat panels.
post #48 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

I'm thinking that maybe if I can live with coax for a few years, then "the future" will be close enough to see better. Perhaps another approach to "future proofing" is to settle for good enough for now, especially since no wiring is needed for now.

As I said earlier, I don't believe interfacing with the content provider's equipment is going to go away anytime soon. In fact, I don't see it going away EVER. And that means coax will remain the gateway to that service. Now, what happens on the other side of the residential equipment using that coax connection is what is really being discussed here.
post #49 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenear View Post

As I said earlier, I don't believe interfacing with the content provider's equipment is going to go away anytime soon. In fact, I don't see it going away EVER. And that means coax will remain the gateway to that service. Now, what happens on the other side of the residential equipment using that coax connection is what is really being discussed here.

I actually don't understand what you said. But it's not you, it's me.

My post that you responded to was talking about the ability to use coax with demodulators (whatever they are) right now to distribute AV (not sure if HD or SD, however.) So, since I already have coax already in place, maybe I can wait awhile before making other cabling decisions (not to mention cutting up my walls, crawling through my attic, etc.)
post #50 of 89
kjgarrison-

You're referring to RF distribution. I can assure you that nobody here does that anymore (unless its to support something VERY simple, such as a security cam, etc.). I did that in the beginning too when that was THE technology. Hell, my father was doing that 20 years ago to distribute our C-band sat.

What is done now is purely baseband transmissions. Meaning, the lowest form of distribution is the single yellow composite connection for video. Pretty much everyone here is doing component video distribution.

Can you still distribute sources with lowly modulators....sure, if you want
However, it becomes harder with the way bandwidth is used for digital signals and depending on your wiring setup.
post #51 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

So, since I already have coax already in place, maybe I can wait awhile before making other cabling decisions (not to mention cutting up my walls, crawling through my attic, etc.)

Well I guess I'm confused as well because I thought you just trying to centralize your DTV receivers/DVR's and distribute whatever they output over their component or HDMI jacks.
post #52 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by video321 View Post

kjgarrison-

You're referring to RF distribution. I can assure you that nobody here does that anymore (unless its to support something VERY simple, such as a security cam, etc.). I did that in the beginning too when that was THE technology. Hell, my father was doing that 20 years ago to distribute our C-band sat.

What is done now is purely baseband transmissions. Meaning, the lowest form of distribution is the single yellow composite connection for video. Pretty much everyone here is doing component video distribution.

Can you still distribute sources with lowly modulators....sure, if you want
However, it becomes harder with the way bandwidth is used for digital signals and depending on your wiring setup.

Ah! I was thinking maybe the whole link was not HD quality. Fooey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenear View Post

Well I guess I'm confused as well because I thought you just trying to centralize your DTV receivers/DVR's and distribute whatever they output over their component or HDMI jacks.

Maybe I shoulda said that all my coax's converge on one location. lol
post #53 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by video321 View Post

kjgarrison-

You're referring to RF distribution. I can assure you that nobody here does that anymore (unless its to support something VERY simple, such as a security cam, etc.). I did that in the beginning too when that was THE technology. Hell, my father was doing that 20 years ago to distribute our C-band sat.

It's amazing how quickly things change. When I started perusing AVS in 2000, RF distribution was the method of choice. I wired and distributed video in my home that I built in 2001 using this method. I'm still using it for video surveillance and for a few analog TVs, but I've also migrated to component distribution. All still in the same house. I had the forethought back in 2001 to run extra Cat5 everywhere, so thank goodness for Cat5 baluns. If I'm in this house for another 6 years, who knows what's next
post #54 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Maybe I shoulda said that all my coax's converge on one location. lol

yes, to something like a 5x8 multiswitch, correct? That's fine as long as that's where you want everything to terminate to. If yes, then I'd say you've got you coax settled. Now it's merely a question of whether or not to centralize your equipment. If yes, then that's what we're discussing in this thread. If no, then I'd say you're set for good (as long as you have coax to every spot in the house where you want a set & two runs if SWM doesn't make it for some reason or you need OTA).
post #55 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by video321 View Post

kjgarrison-

You're referring to RF distribution. I can assure you that nobody here does that anymore (unless its to support something VERY simple, such as a security cam, etc.). I did that in the beginning too when that was THE technology. Hell, my father was doing that 20 years ago to distribute our C-band sat.

What is done now is purely baseband transmissions. Meaning, the lowest form of distribution is the single yellow composite connection for video. Pretty much everyone here is doing component video distribution.

Can you still distribute sources with lowly modulators....sure, if you want
However, it becomes harder with the way bandwidth is used for digital signals and depending on your wiring setup.

It bothers me that Sound & Vision put that info out only a few weeks ago. (see the link in my post) Is it possible that improvements have been made in RF distribution since the "old days"?
post #56 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by goldenear View Post

yes, to something like a 5x8 multiswitch, correct? That's fine as long as that's where you want everything to terminate to. If yes, then I'd say you've got you coax settled. Now it's merely a question of whether or not to centralize your equipment. If yes, then that's what we're discussing in this thread. If no, then I'd say you're set for good (as long as you have coax to every spot in the house where you want a set & two runs if SWM doesn't make it for some reason or you need OTA).

No multiswitch. Just a place in a basement bedroom where the satellite cables come in and where every coax in the house originates from. Most of them are not in use, but they had splitters to send the feed to something like 6-8 different locations.
post #57 of 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

It bothers me that Sound & Vision put that info out only a few weeks ago. (see the link in my post) Is it possible that improvements have been made in RF distribution since the "old days"?

Nope...Same 'ol.

Read the article again, and note their subtle caveat:

Imagine the possibilities if you could create your own TV channel so any composite-video signal could be viewed on any set in your house.
post #58 of 89
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertmee View Post

Nope...Same 'ol.

Read the article again, and note their subtle caveat:

Imagine the possibilities if you could create your own TV channel so any composite-video signal could be viewed on any set in your house.

yeah ... just imagine

composite ...

Wow

It's funny, sort of. I remember seeing that and glossing over it. We do get what we think mixed up with what we want all too often. DA me.

Thanks robertmee for the enlightenment
post #59 of 89
...and I'm not one of them, 'cause my question definitely does not include even one 'giga'

I just scrapped the CRT for a 50" 720p set (great price), D*'s latest HD DVR (main source), and HD-DVD (sometimes source). I have an older but still reasonably capable AVR (5.1, optical, no HDMI). All of this plus decent speakers centrally located in the family room. But that's not the problem. Reading the various AVR forums I now know enough to be reasonably competent, well certainly not dangerous, with all this gear (thank you!).

Problem is the wife wants to know what I've done for her with all this hardware, a reasonable request since she's lumbering along with a 6-year old Dell/W2000 machine in the office. I guess when I (finally) got HD envy, she got PC-envy. Now I'm looking to find a win/win and thought I might get some good advice here...trust me, there IS an alternative distribution question in here somewhere.

I'm looking at the 'name' PC boxes and it seems I can get a reasonable machine with wireless, multi-media, and a flat screen for less than $1000. Here's the beef...

Wireless
-Is there any inexpensive home wireless gear I can use to distribute recorded DVR content around to other rooms where I have a collection of mostly solid SD CRTs?

-Likewise can I distribute D*'s output signal over wireless to other devices? I'm guessing not but the thought of pulling more cable in my house makes me heave.

PC Upgrades
-What capabilities would I have if I upgrade to a HDMI-enabled video controller in the PC, and is the flat-panel display resolution of 1200x800 sufficient for 720p HD viewing?

-I'd like to permanently archive DVR content in a personal 'collection' and for a few extra bucks, does it make sense to get a 2-layer DVD burner; can I actually archive?

-Will any of the MS-Vista S/W components help me in this scheme, or are there other software (hardware) products that would be more useful?

I'm not really a high-fidelity kind of guy, and since I only have one HD display and no wireless home network currently, I'm looking for something practical to leverage the DVR content that I'm starting to squirrel away. Being able to watch DVR in down-scaled SD with 2.1 sound over wireless would be huge, especially if I can justify a few well-time PC/bridge/router investments to archive content. Maybe a another plasma or two will find their way into the home next year as well.

Needless to say, this scheme may come in especially useful when I am banished from the plasma/HD for spending all this dough...I may be the one watching in SD stereo

Advice, HW/SW w/models, and places to buy would all be MOST appreciated.
post #60 of 89
Wireless video/audio is mostly restricted to composite grade video/2ch audio. There has been promise of HD wireless and I believe there were even some demos at Cedia, but to my knowledge nothing is shipping and the few that were demo'd were very limited in range. With that said, if you want to send composite video/audio wirelessly there are several 2.4Ghz and 5.8Ghz senders around. RCA, Terk (Leapfrog), RF Link, et al. My only experience has been with Terk and I can tell you I no longer use it. It was mostly restricted to line of sight and forget about using it with the microwave on.
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