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Zenith (LG) DTT900 CECB - Page 12

post #331 of 2443
I know. The categories some stores are putting these under is not helping... I think a while back Wal-Mart had one under "DVD players and accessories".
post #332 of 2443
Quote:
Originally Posted by ledgerat View Post

While I agree that the study seems flawed with everything I have read, I have already seen first hand a couple of friends who have set up their converters lose channels...now they are out "in the sticks, so to speak, but I do believe there will be some hearty b!chin' a year from now. In the long run this will be a good thing, but I know my grandma may have to get some of her grandkids to pony up for cable if she wants to keep watchin all her "programs". Hopefully, the box will work for her.

For those channels they "lost", are they supposed to move to VHF in Feb2009?
If so, reception should greatly improve.

When the high power NTSC stations go away, reception of DTV will significantly
improve due to fewer sources of adjacent channel, co-channel and
intermodulation noise....
post #333 of 2443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avio View Post

Thanks for your critical comments... they puts this article in perspective.

I've stopped using and recommending www.antennaweb.org and have been using www.TVfool.com instead.

Do you agree with my impression that TVfool.com is better than antennaweb.org? Do you have any other recommendations?

Avio

I use www.tvfool.com whenever I analyze someone's situation.
But I have not (yet) seen or conducted some sort of accuracy verification.

I also use RADIO MOBILE, a FREE propagation prediction program download:
http://www.cplus.org/rmw/english1.html
http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages...html#POST28428

R-M automatically downloads SRTM-3 (medium rez) topo database, although
I've manually downloaded the hi-rez SRTM-1 topo database for my area.
And SRTM-1 is barely adequate to resolve local terrain variations....
I normally calculate F(50,50) and/or F(50,90) statistics and then estimate
how much Fade Margin is remaining (typically need 15-20+ dB).

I've developed a set of Excel spread sheets which takes the tvfool results
(and/or Path Loss from Radio-Mobile) and incorporates numerous gain/loss
factors not incorporated into either antennaweb or tvfool (a critical oversight).

This includes Land Use Clutter Loss, Tree Loss, Attic/Indoor Loss, sensitivity
reduction due to Antenna VSWR (ala Oded Bendov), Antenna Gain, Balun loss,
Preamp Gain/Noise Figure, Cable/Splitter loss and receiver Noise Figure.
[Some of these can't help but be guestimates....]

I posted a copy of these spread sheets, attempting to "calibrate" the tvfool
F(99,99) results against the more commonly used F(50,50) and F(50,90)
statistical criteria. [50% of "locations", 90% of the "time"]:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10961518
Equations are fully described with references to various supporting documents.

Because tvfool calculates "RX(dBm)" using F(99,99) statistics, the levels represent
the signal level during one of the worst fading events during the year (decade?).
This results in calculated RX(dBm) being considerably lower than not only the
best receiver sensitivity...but also well below the thermal noise floor.
Hence it isn't very useful wrt overload calculations....so I calculated a conversion factor.
post #334 of 2443
Saw about 15 Insignia boxes on the shelf at Best Buy (Dearborn, MI) this afternoon...
post #335 of 2443
I noticed my local circuit city has the Zenith DTT900 in stock now (central Virginia).
post #336 of 2443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avio View Post

As noted earlier in this thread, the following CECB is listed on Amazon as follows:

Philco TB100HH9 D/A Converter
http://www.amazon.com/Philco-TB100HH...dp/B000YC8NYY/

A "customer image" has been inserted:



BUT, get this: Amazon put the box in the following category!

Electronics > Computer Add-Ons > Video Capture & Editing Devices > TV Tuners

Since when is Grandma's converter box for that old TV a "Computer Add-On Video Capture & Editing Device."

Avio

AVIO, reading the Amazon or Ebay ads is like looking at the Sunday funnies, anyway.
Regards

Whodart
post #337 of 2443
Quote:
Originally Posted by inky blacks View Post

why buy the off brand name Insignia? Zenith is a well known name and better if you every want to ever resell the unit.

IB

They are only using the Zenith name because of those over the age of 50. They KNOW the Zenith name. Younger people know LG. Zenith is only marketing. As for Insignia? I have no idea.
post #338 of 2443
I called 4 Radio Shack dealers and they were shipped Digital Stream DTX 9900 instead of the Zenith DTT900. This Digital Stream model does not have S video like the two other DS models. Does anyone know about the reception abilities of the model? The statement that all Radio Shack stores will have Zenith is not accurate. I did find one RS store in my area that was shipped the Zenith boxes.
post #339 of 2443
onslowtn - check the following thread in a few hours / days.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=996043
post #340 of 2443
As mentioned above (earlier today), many of the Circuit City locations now have the Zenith DTT900 in stock. Locally, two CC stores have it in stock. Tempted to test it next to the Insignia I own, but from every indication, the Insignia is a direct clone of the Zenith.

Check availability here http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/Searc...&go.x=9&go.y=7

Steve
post #341 of 2443
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtHomeBoy_2000 View Post

They are only using the Zenith name because of those over the age of 50. They KNOW the Zenith name. Younger people know LG. Zenith is only marketing. As for Insignia? I have no idea.

Insignia is BB's "house brand", made by LG - so it's not surprising that the Zenith and Insignia are one and the same.

All made by LG, so I would expect very good quality.
post #342 of 2443
Quote:
Originally Posted by onslowtn View Post

I called 4 Radio Shack dealers and they were shipped Digital Stream DTX 9900 instead of the Zenith DTT900. This Digital Stream model does not have S video like the two other DS models. Does anyone know about the reception abilities of the model? The statement that all Radio Shack stores will have Zenith is not accurate. I did find one RS store in my area that was shipped the Zenith boxes.

Digital Stream also made RS's Accurian ATSC tuner, so there's no surprise there either.

The Digital Stream/Accurian had a 4th gen. chip, and was an excellent receiver. So it should also be very good.
post #343 of 2443
Thread Starter 
RadioShack website has 7 customer reviews posted as of today:

Zenith DTT900 - RS Customer Reviews
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...gs#showReviews

For those interested in RF Analog Pass Through, one reviewer made the following comment:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonny from ENID Oklahoma on 2/1/2008 View Post

This will convert DTV to your old analog set and it has a video output to connect to your vcr and continue to record shows after the changeover! This unit will pass the analog signals so you can receive both!

Avio
post #344 of 2443
I'd rather have S-video than RF pass through.
post #345 of 2443
Thread Starter 
One__Call.com is selling the Zenith box online:

Zenith DTT900
http://www.One__Call.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=90489

[remove underscore for link to work; AVS Forum blocks this domain]

$59.00
AVAILABILITY: In Stock
3-DAY FEDEX SHIPPING: $11.15

No mention (yet) of whether One__Call, or any online vendor, is (or will be) accepting the $40 Coupons.

Avio
post #346 of 2443
Quote:
Originally Posted by AtHomeBoy_2000 View Post

They are only using the Zenith name because of those over the age of 50. They KNOW the Zenith name. Younger people know LG. Zenith is only marketing. As for Insignia? I have no idea.

Yeah The quality goes in, before the name goes on! There was a video showing a man hand soldering a wire to a solder lug to a tube socket.

They bragged on the quality of their individual hand wired components. This was before the days of printed circuitboards.

I had a friend, who worked for Buroughs Business Machines Company in Detroit, Michigan. He made mechanical adding machines. He was laid off in the late 1960's, when the companied closed. He said that the company was too late to adopt the "paradigm shift" to printed circuit boards.
post #347 of 2443
post #348 of 2443
Thread Starter 
Ready or Not, Here Comes DTV
All-Digital TV Arrives Feb. 18, 2009, but Many Fear the Worst

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/18/2008 7:00:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadcasting & Cable View Post

How far has the federal campaign for the digital-TV transition gone? The National Telecommunications and Information Administration considered deploying the Boy Scouts of America to help inform over-the-air analog TV viewers that they could lose their TV picture at 12:01 a.m. Feb. 18, 2009, just one year from today, unless they get a converter box, a new TV, or are already hooked up to cable or satellite.

Converter-box retailers held talks with Boy Scout organizations about coming up with a DTV-transition merit badge for helping some older ladies and gentlemen cross the digital divide, although the plan may be scrapped over concerns about sending scouts into strangers' homes. Meanwhile, the Federal Communications Commission is talking to the Meals on Wheels Association of America about delivering DTV education along with food. ...

Looking for a 'low-power' fix

Baker is also looking for a low-power fix. We have also told manufacturers that we will expedite the recertification of their next version of the converter boxes if they include the analog pass-through feature, she said. She is confident that there will be more such boxes available by the time the coupons become widely available. ...

Full story: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/art...dustryid=48696

Avio
post #349 of 2443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avio View Post

RadioShack website has 7 customer reviews posted as of today:

Zenith DTT900 - RS Customer Reviews
http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...gs#showReviews

For those interested in RF Analog Pass Through, one reviewer made the following comment:

"Originally Posted by Sonny from ENID Oklahoma on 2/1/2008
This will convert DTV to your old analog set and it has a video output to connect to your vcr and continue to record shows after the changeover! This unit will pass the analog signals so you can receive both!"

Avio

To add to the above - A reviewer on CC's website noted the following:

"Just note that to watch analog stations you will need to use some form of a switch to change back to the tv tuner because the digital tuner does not pass the antenna signal through it when you turn it off ."
post #350 of 2443
Thread Starter 
EchoStar DTV Box Slated For June

By Greg Tarr -- TWICE, 2/20/2008 8:42:00 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by TWICE View Post

Littleton, Colo. The first wave of digital TV converter-box coupons may be going out this week, but EchoStar's much-publicized $39.99 converter box won't be available until June or July, the company told TWICE.

The company, which recently split off its set-top box division from its Dish Network satellite TV service, made headlines at International CES by announcing plans to market a DTV converter box that would be eligible for National Telecommunications and Information Administration (NTIA) $40 TV converter box coupons, making it effectively free to consumers who participate.

However, under the company's timetable, the converter box model TR-40 may not be available to the earliest people to receive coupons, since the mandated redemption period is 90 days.

According to a company spokesperson, much of EchoStar's marketing and distribution logistics are still being worked out on the product. The company could not directly answer our question about which dealers it was targeting in its distribution strategy, except to say: We are still working on distribution but expect national distribution through Dish Network retailers. ...

Full story: http://www.twice.com/article/CA6533760.html

Avio
post #351 of 2443
How does the DTT900 or the Insignia tuner compare to previous STB's in terms of fringe area reception say 70+miles out? Would this be a good DX tuner?
post #352 of 2443
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkman386 View Post

How does the DTT900 or the Insignia tuner compare to previous STB's in terms of fringe area reception say 70+miles out? Would this be a good DX tuner?

Here's what one DX poster said in this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by haley-SEA View Post

A very small market for these boxes would be the TV/FM DX community. Unlike an integrated tuner/TV and/or DVD these boxes allow one to "roll tape" and archive DX while scanning or changing channels.

I'm considering the LG/Zenith box for the hamshack to replace an older USD (Hisense) box. ...

Avio
post #353 of 2443
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkman386 View Post

How does the DTT900 or the Insignia tuner compare to previous STB's in terms of fringe area reception say 70+miles out? Would this be a good DX tuner?

And, here's an excerpt about the unit's reception abilities from a professional posting in this thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Shutt View Post


Zenith DTT900 Performance Report

... the box found 4 of the 6 DTV broadcasters in my area, but claimed it found 8 "channels." What it counted was all of the sub-channels associated with each broadcast. So I flipped through the channels. The first thing I did was to grab the Silver Sensor that was feeding the Zenith and moved it. The picture remained locked. So I turned it a bit. Still solid picture and sound. With the older Samsung box (SR-T151) that I normally use, moving the Silver Sensor
would immediately cause the image to freeze, only returning when the antenna was at rest again.

Intrigued, I picked up the Silver Sensor and rapidly waived it about. Only the slightest breakup, and no loss of audio at all. I am impressed! I rotate the Silver Sensor a full 360 degrees, something guaranteed to cause me to lose lock of all channels with the older Samsung, but the Zenith remained locked solid.

There were still two channels that I never received with the Samsung, but my boss could receive with a Silver Sensor and an ATSC USB dongle in the office next door. I aimed my antenna out of my office window towards the distant towers. Unfortunately, there is a four story parking ramp right outside of my window, blocking my view of the two distant towers. I went into the menus looking for a signal strength meter. I did find one there, and I manually punched in the RF channel (as prompted) of one of the stations, and with just bit of aiming got a solid lock on the remaining two channels. However, I couldn't get the system to "memorize" those channels.

But then I found a menu entry labeled "EZ Add." I selected that item and the box began a second RF search, only this time it said "adding channels." Great! You can scan for stations several times with the antenna pointed in different directions, and not lose previously found stations. ...

Strong points: Very good DTV reception. ...

John
__________________
John Shutt
WKAR TV-23, DT-55
PBS, East Lansing, MI

Avio
post #354 of 2443
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkman386 View Post

How does the DTT900 or the Insignia tuner compare to previous STB's in terms of fringe area reception say 70+miles out? Would this be a good DX tuner?

I just picked one up today and was eager to answer your question.

My initial reaction is positive, although I do have a unique situation, so YMMV.

I live at 1440 feet in central virginia, my local stations are from charlottesville, ~20 miles away. Distant stations for me are from Richmond, at ~75 miles, and with my elevation they all come in analog. My DX stations when conditions are right come from Hampton Roads/Virginia Beach, although most of the digital stations share frequencies with charlottesville stations.

I've tried 2 samsung HDTV boxes, and some DVD recorders, (the samsung DVD recorder had the best tuner). I've posted all my previous tuner findings here on a local reception thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=386678

I would rate this on par with the Samsung DVD recorder (DVD-AR650) as far as the channels I'm receiving. I'm receiving everything I did on the Samsung DVD recorder, which was slightly better than the Samsung 260 box.

My antenna (CM 4228) is fixed, and is now pointing directly to charlotteville, and about 15 degrees away from Richmond. My reception issue has always been multi-path interference from hilly and mountainous terrain. I also have a 4 way splitter in place at the moment. One way I guage the tuner is from a 100W station in Richmond that comes in even with the splitter, it does not come in with the splitter on the Samsung 260 box.

I'll have to check my reception over different times of the day to find out for sure how well this tuner does its job. A regular pattern with multi-path for me is better at night and early morning, and bad during the middle of the day.

I really like the auditory beep (beeps faster with a better signal), when you push the signal button on the remote.

You can scan for channels without deleting by using the EZ add function, pressing AutoScan will delete the menu of saved channels.
post #355 of 2443
I just got the Zenith DTV Box from Circuit City and have played with it for about an hour. These comments are my first thoughts on the box. I'll post additional comments as I do more tests.

Look & Feel: Every thing on the box feels solid most of the case is made of metal; the front is made of plastic, but is necessary for the Red/Blue power light to be seen. The remote is made of plastic, but still feels solid in my hand.

The box measures 8.5" x 1.8" x 6.4" and weighs about 1.65 pounds. It's small enough to fin onto almost every TV. A clever cut pattern on the top of the case provides plenty of ventilation and there are holes on the bottom too. After running about 2 hours, the box does not feel warm at all.

Set-Up: I decided to connect the box to an antenna pointing in the wrong direction for LA stations. The antenna is used to pick up stations in San Diego & Mexico, roughly 100 miles away. Even with the ghosting caused by pointing in the wrong direction, the box pulled all the same channels that my HDTV does with an antenna pointing in the correct direction. (NOTE: Due to all the rain, it's currently impossible for me to receive any TV stations, analog or digital, from San Diego. It may be 1 week before I can try my DX HDTV test to San Diego.)

The set-up proved to be VERY easy and quick. While I didn't time the channel scan, I think it took less than 1 minute to do. The are a total of 6 steps to get going: (1) Welcome message, (2) Select Menu Language, (3) Select TV Aspect ratio, (4) Search For Channels, (5) Select your time zone, and (6) Thank You.

Finding the correct setting for my Sony TV Power on/off was easy. Hold down the TV Power Button and keep pressing channel up until the TV turned on or off. It took a total of 7 up presses to find the correct setting. At that point, I just took my finger off the TV Power Setting.

Operation: Once you "play" with the unit, you'll find operation to be easy. Selecting channels can be done by up/down buttons, direct number entry (like 5-1), press any digit and select from list, press guide and select from list, press FAV and select from list (of favorites), or press RECALL and select from list. The arrow buttons and the center button allow you to select the channel you want.

The ZOOM button selects the picture aspect ratio; Letter Box, Cropped, Squeezed, and Set by program.

The SIGNAL Button shows a bar graph and beeps to indicate the level; slow beeps for weak signal to rapid beeps for good signal to solid beep for top notch signal. The graph is broken into 3 parts; Red, Green, and Blue. It appears that if the bar is in the Green or better yet, Blue section, you'll have no problem. However, if the bar is in the Red Section, you may have a problem.

The SLEEP Button allows you to select from: 1 hour, 2 hours, 3 hours, 4 hours, and OFF (never go to sleep). If you don't touch any button on the remote, the unit will auto power off after the set time.

The MENU Button brings up a menu with 3 main options: Setup, Option, and Lock. The arrows, center button, and Exit allow you to move through the menu selections.

I do like the option to select EZ Add, to look for new channels without deleting the current list.

Image & Audio Quality:

The image looks like I'm playing a DVD into the TV. It is sharp and the colors are clean. Sadly, my Sony 13" TV's speaker can't fully reproduce the quality, but what I can hear sounds very good.

Over All Feelings: I've VERY pleased with what I've seen so far. The Zenith converter has so far performed very well and has all the features I'd want. OK, there's no RF pass through, no analog tuner (not that I care for it), and no S-Video output, but it does the basic functions I'd want from a converter box.

The ONLY function I could not find on the unit was Factory Reset. While not exactly a big deal, I would have liked to see some way to reset the unit to factory setting. You never know if you'll need to start over from the beginning. Maybe there's a secret button press to do this, but I don't know it yet.

There are a few more tests I want to perform and I'll report on them later.


Sincerely,

Bob Diaz
post #356 of 2443
"Welcome message"? Does every LG product show their logo when turned on?
post #357 of 2443
The welcome message is only on set up, not every time you power up.

It does take about 4-5 seconds for an image to display when you power up.
post #358 of 2443
Thread Starter 
The TV Converter Box Coupon Program Website: https://www.dtv2009.gov - has updated its "Locate a Converter Box Retailer near you" webpage: https://www.dtv2009.gov/VendorSearch.aspx - with a note about web vendors. It reads:

Online Retailers
Converter boxes can also be purchased online and can be shipped directly to your home.
To purchase online please visit the BSAT e-shop at dtv.bsat.net.

Going to this site displays the following:

Welcome to the BSAT eShop for the NTIA Certified DTV converter box!

BSAT, Inc. has been providing support and sales to the consumer electronics and cable industry for more than 5 years. As a member of the Consumer Electronics Association and SCTE, we believe in selling technology we understand to provide the best customer service to our customers, including new and used consumer electronics and cable equipment.

BSAT is a Certified NTIA retailer



They list the following two CECB's with Free Shipping:

Artec T3A NTIA Certified Convertor Box
Model: T3A
Manufacturer: Artec
• EPG (Electronic Program Guide)
• V-Chip Lock (Parental Controls)
• Closed Caption
• Dolby AC-3 Audio Decoding
• Remote Control
Base SKU:ae00-1002
In Stock: Yes
Price: $56.99

CoShip 9900T NTIA Certified Convertor Box
Model: 9900T
Manufacturer: CoShip
• 7 days Electronic Program Guide (EPG)
• Favorite channel edit
• Multi-language audio supported
• Picture in graphics (PIG) supported
• Closed Caption
• Parent control (V-chip)
Base SKU:ae00-1003
In Stock: No
Price: $57.99

http://dtv.bsat.net/c-2-digital-to-a...erter-box.aspx

Avio
post #359 of 2443
Thread Starter 
Related news story...

BSAT Is NTIA's First Certified Online DTV-Converter Retailer
Elmhurst, Ill.-Based E-tailer Added to National Telecommunications and Information Administration's DTV2009.gov Site

By John Eggerton -- Broadcasting & Cable, 2/22/2008 2:03:00 PM

Quote:
Originally Posted by Broadcasting & Cable View Post

... A link to BSAT was added to the NTIA's DTV2009.gov site. Surfers are advised to go to BSAT's e-shop for online orders, although the NTIA is planning to certify at least four more e-tailers. ...

Full story: http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6534693.html

Avio
post #360 of 2443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avio View Post

CoShip 9900T NTIA Certified Convertor Box
Model: 9900T
Manufacturer: CoShip
• 7 days Electronic Program Guide (EPG)
• Favorite channel edit
• Multi-language audio supported
• Picture in graphics (PIG) supported
• Closed Caption
• Parent control (V-chip)
Base SKU:ae00-1003
In Stock: No
Price: $57.99

http://dtv.bsat.net/c-2-digital-to-a...erter-box.aspx

Avio

Great find Avio, has 7 day EPG
Here is link to Coship's official page with specs - http://www.coship.com/CoshipEn/Defau...CatalogID=6864
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