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Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 8

post #211 of 5206
I just realize that i have 400 hours on Pioneer 6010FD . I occasionally watch dvd with full screen (black bars on top and bottom). Mostly, i am in zoom mode...I guess it should be ok to go back to normal mode. By the way, User mode with dot-to-dot is awesome on regular DVD.

cheers.
post #212 of 5206
I posted this below on the normal threads, but I thought I would post here too. Thanks for any responses.

Hi guys,

I just ordered my 42PZ85U and want to get things prepared for it. Here's my questions:

1) I have a 6 year old DVD player (going to upgrade in time), but is it ok for me to use this old player to run the break-in DVD?

2) And the solid colors running on the break-in DVD should help me to see dead pixels, correct? Or is there another way to find out?

3) Also, can I use this player for the DVE disk?

4) Until I decide on upconvert DVD player or blu-ray, what kind of connections do I need to optimize PQ for watching SD DVDs? My old DVD player is a non-progressive scan, has video and S component.

Btw, thanks for this forum and all on it for helping me get this far!
post #213 of 5206
sorry but i'm having trouble burning the break in disc...

what files did you burn and what did you do in nero to burn them to a dvd-r?

thanks for the help!
post #214 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbnzgrl View Post

I posted this below on the normal threads, but I thought I would post here too. Thanks for any responses.

Hi guys,

I just ordered my 42PZ85U and want to get things prepared for it. Here's my questions:

1) I have a 6 year old DVD player (going to upgrade in time), but is it ok for me to use this old player to run the break-in DVD?

2) And the solid colors running on the break-in DVD should help me to see dead pixels, correct? Or is there another way to find out?

3) Also, can I use this player for the DVE disk?

4) Until I decide on upconvert DVD player or blu-ray, what kind of connections do I need to optimize PQ for watching SD DVDs? My old DVD player is a non-progressive scan, has video and S component.

Btw, thanks for this forum and all on it for helping me get this far!

1. yes
2. yes - no
3. yes
4. from best to worst: component -> S -> composite (the yellow thingie)
post #215 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Its not that any particular TV needs the break in DVD, but if you are using a Plasma TV its a good idea to break it in first. The plasma's cells need some time to "break in" and it helps them to prevent IR because they have been used for awhile and not as prone to IR.

How are you checking for IR? You need to turn the TV to an input that has no signal coming to it, stand close to the TV and have no lights on, that is the best way to see any IR. Its not normal viewing but it will help.


I don't follow this recommendation. If you turn the TV to an input that has no signal coming to it all you will see is a black screen. How is that going to show IR? Thanks.
post #216 of 5206
I have a simple question and I know it has been asked many times but i'll be specific to my situation. I play xbox 360 and ps3 games and when I find a game I like I will only play that game until I am finished with it for example with blue dragon for the 360 I clocked about 200 hours over a period of 4 months playing anywhere from 2-5 hours a day 4-7 days a week and on my lcd this was about 80-90% of the tv's use. My question is if I switch the input on my panny 50px80u to a full screen display every hour or so when I go outside to have a smoke will this prevent any long term problems or is the fact that I am displaying the same static image for 200-300 hours regardless of giving it a 10 min break every hour of gaming.
post #217 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by igreg View Post

I don't follow this recommendation. If you turn the TV to an input that has no signal coming to it all you will see is a black screen. How is that going to show IR? Thanks.


The IR will be lighter coloured black.
post #218 of 5206
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by igreg View Post

I don't follow this recommendation. If you turn the TV to an input that has no signal coming to it all you will see is a black screen. How is that going to show IR? Thanks.

If you have IR and turn to a no input screen (or where the input device is turned off) IR will still be displayed. For example, if say FOX's logo has caused IR. When you turn to a no input source you will see FOX's logo because having a no input source still causes your phosphors to be excited and attempting to display black. Since the phosphor is "on", if there is IR on that phosphor it will be displayed as that color instead of black.

If you are only seeing black and no IR, you then have no IR. This is actually the best way to check for IR. No input source, dark room, no lights on, stand close to the TV.
post #219 of 5206
I just purchased a Panny 42x75u, build date Dec 2007. I have not hooked it up yet. I have spent many many hours reading through this forum, specifically for info on IR and burn in as well as reviews on the 42X75U.

I have read so much on the "required" burn in period of 100 minimum. I have not see any mention of what the Panasonic reps (2 different ones) told me. I called regarding the burn in process. They told me that they did over 100 hours burn in at the factory and I did not need to do it.

Has no one else heard this?

Cheers
post #220 of 5206
yes, most TVs (both LCD and Plasma) have now accumulated around 100 hours at the factory level. Whether it's a new thing or it's been like that since a long time ago, I don't know.
post #221 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by cheaptimes View Post

I have a simple question and I know it has been asked many times but i'll be specific to my situation. I play xbox 360 and ps3 games and when I find a game I like I will only play that game until I am finished with it for example with blue dragon for the 360 I clocked about 200 hours over a period of 4 months playing anywhere from 2-5 hours a day 4-7 days a week and on my lcd this was about 80-90% of the tv's use. My question is if I switch the input on my panny 50px80u to a full screen display every hour or so when I go outside to have a smoke will this prevent any long term problems or is the fact that I am displaying the same static image for 200-300 hours regardless of giving it a 10 min break every hour of gaming.

May be a simple question but maybe a difficult one to answer? That is, how much game playing can cause burn-in? Are a few hours totally safe even if the game has a static icon? At what point does a concern exist? I would not think you would need to take any break if you are just playing 2 tyo 5 hours?

Alternatively, could the burn-in effect be cumulative and cause problems even if a few hours don’t? That is, if like you a person plays the same gave for hundreds of hours is there a problem with cumulative use even in you only game for a few hours at a time?
post #222 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by igreg View Post

May be a simple question but maybe a difficult one to answer? That is, how much game playing can cause burn-in? Are a few hours totally safe even if the game has a static icon? At what point does a concern exist? I would not think you would need to take any break if you are just playing 2 tyo 5 hours?

Alternatively, could the burn-in effect be cumulative and cause problems even if a few hours don’t? That is, if like you a person plays the same gave for hundreds of hours is there a problem with cumulative use even in you only game for a few hours at a time?

You will see image retention after a hard core gaming session, I typically play 5 hrs and if some of my friends come by we can blow an evening playing.

The transparent HUD’s like in Halo 3 don’t really leave any IR behind (on my Sam/5044), but the hard HUDs do leave some IR. On my panel it remains consistent, if I play 30 mins or if I play 18 hours I seem to get the same IR. It evaporates in 30-1hr.

Permanent burn is a thing of the past (If it ever was a quotable fact), I have yet to see proof of perm-burn, even on commercial plasma sets used at airports, ski lodges and bars.

IR varies from brand to brand, some report worse recovery times some report better, and if they report none then they lie or wear serious prescription specks.
post #223 of 5206
Thank you for the responses igreg and air. I believe that if airhostess can play halo for a 30 min stretch or play an all nighter and as he says the IR remaines the same 30min to 1hour than I am probably safe since what got me worried about IR to begin with was a 1 hour session of gaming that left 1 hour of IR ( only looking close at a black screen ) it made me start to think that 6 hours of play would leave 6 hours of IR and so on and become noticeable in regular tv viewing. Anyways i'll let you guys know if I ever get any long term problems which is not very likely.
post #224 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by airhostess View Post

You will see image retention after a hard core gaming session, I typically play 5 hrs and if some of my friends come by we can blow an evening playing.

The transparent HUD's like in Halo 3 don't really leave any IR behind (on my Sam/5044), but the hard HUDs do leave some IR. On my panel it remains consistent, if I play 30 mins or if I play 18 hours I seem to get the same IR. It evaporates in 30-1hr.

Permanent burn is a thing of the past (If it ever was a quotable fact), I have yet to see proof of perm-burn, even on commercial plasma sets used at airports, ski lodges and bars.

IR varies from brand to brand, some report worse recovery times some report better, and if they report none then they lie or wear serious prescription specks.

Interesting. So all this talk and nobody has ever documented a real case of burn-in? Seems like this whole thread is not worth the bandwidth it consumes then?
post #225 of 5206
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by igreg View Post

Interesting. So all this talk and nobody has ever documented a real case of burn-in? Seems like this whole thread is not worth the bandwidth it consumes then?

This thread deals mainly with IR. Burn in use to be an issue, but no so much anymore (takes extreme abuse). However, IR is still a problem.
post #226 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by airhostess View Post

Permanent burn is a thing of the past (If it ever was a quotable fact), I have yet to see proof of perm-burn, even on commercial plasma sets used at airports, ski lodges and bars.

Not true. I've tried getting rid of IR from literally more than 100 plasmas used at an airport and even after running all kinds of images for 48 hours, NONE of the burn in disappeared. They are commercial NEC plasma monitors.

This was back in December 2007 (yes, 2007, not 1997)
post #227 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelv View Post

I just realize that i have 400 hours on Pioneer 6010FD . I occasionally watch dvd with full screen (black bars on top and bottom). Mostly, i am in zoom mode...I guess it should be ok to go back to normal mode. By the way, User mode with dot-to-dot is awesome on regular DVD.

cheers.

At the 200 mark I cut my 5080 loose and pretty much watched what I wanted except for programs with vertical black bars. I set to gray.
I've watched as many as 3 DVD movies in a row with horizontal black bars and have zero I/R. Your 6010 is one beautiful set.
post #228 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

Not true. I've tried getting rid of IR from literally more than 100 plasmas used at an airport and even after running all kinds of images for 48 hours, NONE of the burn in disappeared. They are commercial NEC plasma monitors.

This was back in December 2007 (yes, 2007, not 1997)

I presume the airport abuses the snot out of them.
post #229 of 5206
Someone left the TV and DVD player on for 10 hours with no disk in the DVD player. The blue screen from the DVD was displayed the entire time.

Will there be any damage to the TV?
post #230 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsalkire View Post

I presume the airport abuses the snot out of them.

They use them to show terminal directions, flight information, the usual stuff.
post #231 of 5206
PS: I agree that showing flight info, terminal directions SHOULD be considered as abused, but I'm just responding to airhostess' claim that not even airports have burn-in problem and this is a bogus claim. I've seen it in various airports in Canada, Australia, Singapore, even the new Hong Kong airports are already showing signs of burn-in.
post #232 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

PS: I agree that showing flight info, terminal directions SHOULD be considered as abused, but I'm just responding to airhostess' claim that not even airports have burn-in problem and this is a bogus claim. I've seen it in various airports in Canada, Australia, Singapore, even the new Hong Kong airports are already showing signs of burn-in.

you should snap some images to show others, strange why you didnt?

im in airports a lot and some friends have bought abused BAA/NAA plasmas for their bars with serious IR and today, no-IR. If the image burnt eventually evaporates, it isn’t permanent now is it. i think perm burn is bogus.
post #233 of 5206
why do I need to take pictures when I did the project way back when in December of 2007 when I didn't even know that this thread exists?

Besides, at the other airports... how am I supposed to take pics when no camera is allowed.

Regardless how many hours when you say "with serious IR and today, no-IR" a week? a month? several months?

PS: if permanent burn is bogus then manufacturers, service technicians, extended warranty companies are all stupid, pixel orbiter is also useless, grey bars when watching 4:3 they are all pointless right?
post #234 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

why do I need to take pictures when I did the project way back when in December of 2007 when I didn't even know that this thread exists?

Besides, at the other airports... how am I supposed to take pics when no camera is allowed.

Regardless how many hours when you say "with serious IR and today, no-IR" a week? a month? several months?

PS: if permanent burn is bogus then manufacturers, service technicians, extended warranty companies are all stupid, pixel orbiter is also useless, grey bars when watching 4:3 they are all pointless right?


No cameras allowed? Certainly there are restricted areas, but one can simply sit at the food court in any airport and snap images of display screens, both inside checkpoints and outside. I always carry a camera and I have never been asked to not snap an image (15 years in aviation) even on sept 11 01/02/03 at Newark.

Orbiters and shifters are to remove IR /and prevent permanent burn in. The technology is working. How long has this technology been around and used? I don’t follow AV tech that close.

Couple of my friends have PDP’s (Sony I think) from Narita now sitting in night clubs, I am not sure how long it took them remove the IR, but it is safe to say it was around nov/oct 07 when they were auctioned, and the last time I was there (in Feb) the tv’s were fine, with no visible signs of hard IR while watching SD programming.

In fact I should do my own tests, I am in a better position to observe these displays. Maybe you can share your fabled test done way back when to let me figure out the parameters needed for the subject. Am a very quick study!
post #235 of 5206
orbiters and shifters are NOT to remove IR but to PREVENT permanent burn in. Now, if there is no risk of permanent burn-in, why prevent it? or do these designers of these TVs are only having fun?

There is no "fabled test" as you sarcastically put. There is burn in, I tried to "erase" the image by playing regular TV programming for 48 hours, the burn in remains.

I don't want to debate about "nobody stopping" you while taking pictures. There are signage that disallow people to take pictures. Maybe if you're using point and shoot nobody's going to stop you because nobody notices. I travel with 2 big dSLR with 4 lenses in two big camera bags. Even going through security is PITA. I've been stopped when I was about to take pictures at airports in Toronto, Calgary, Singapore, Indonesia even in Hong Kong (although I do see there are a LOT of point shooters being ignored by security). Heck, even at Paramount's Wonderland (Toronto) I wasn't allowed in because my cameras are considered "pro" by those idiots "guarding" the park.

I'm not saying that today's plasma still have burn-in, I'm just saying that burn-in is true. I've seen it, I tried erasing it and it's still there.

PS: pixel shifter haven't been around for too long. Maybe only in the past 3 years.
post #236 of 5206
Hello,

I'm considering buying a new plasma soon, but I fear IR. Could someone be so kind as to answer one specific question for me?

My son will use the plasma to play video games, and the biggest IR risk seems to be a full saturday of game playing. Will this create IR to an unacceptable degree with static menus? I've heard lots of advice in this thread and others about switching up the content and using a screen wipe feature, but all this advice is going to be forgotten when the game begins.

Could someone comment on this situation for me? The set I'm leaning towards is the new 58A550. I wouldn't be able to afford a Pioneer, although I understand their IR prevention is superior.

Thanks in advance for humoring yet another new guy.
post #237 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasracht View Post

Hello,

I'm considering buying a new plasma soon, but I fear IR. Could someone be so kind as to answer one specific question for me?

My son will use the plasma to play video games, and the biggest IR risk seems to be a full saturday of game playing. Will this create IR to an unacceptable degree with static menus? I've heard lots of advice in this thread and others about switching up the content and using a screen wipe feature, but all this advice is going to be forgotten when the game begins.

Could someone comment on this situation for me? The set I'm leaning towards is the new 58A550. I wouldn't be able to afford a Pioneer, although I understand their IR prevention is superior.

Thanks in advance for humoring yet another new guy.

Excellent question. I have yet to see an answer about how long a peson can play a video game with a static icon without concern for burn-in. Perhaps because no standard answer is out there?
post #238 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

orbiters and shifters are NOT to remove IR but to PREVENT permanent burn in. Now, if there is no risk of permanent burn-in, why prevent it? or do these designers of these TVs are only having fun?

There is no "fabled test" as you sarcastically put. There is burn in, I tried to "erase" the image by playing regular TV programming for 48 hours, the burn in remains.

I don't want to debate about "nobody stopping" you while taking pictures. There are signage that disallow people to take pictures. Maybe if you're using point and shoot nobody's going to stop you because nobody notices. I travel with 2 big dSLR with 4 lenses in two big camera bags. Even going through security is PITA. I've been stopped when I was about to take pictures at airports in Toronto, Calgary, Singapore, Indonesia even in Hong Kong (although I do see there are a LOT of point shooters being ignored by security). Heck, even at Paramount's Wonderland (Toronto) I wasn't allowed in because my cameras are considered "pro" by those idiots "guarding" the park.

I'm not saying that today's plasma still have burn-in, I'm just saying that burn-in is true. I've seen it, I tried erasing it and it's still there.

PS: pixel shifter haven't been around for too long. Maybe only in the past 3 years.

Your “project” is essentially useless if you aren’t prepared to share it in a comprehensive manner. Am I to believe you based purely on faith?

My Samsung manual states on page 55 “pixel shift: using this function, you can minutely move the pixels on the PDP in horizontal or vertical direction to prevent after-images on the screen.
So lets not play semantics, these functions are available to prevent the possibility of screen burn, an image must be retained to eventually become permanently burnt.
I checked my TV settings and mine isn’t even activated, by doing so it may improve my IR gaming tables.

Perhaps it is your attitude towards individuals who are curious about what you are photographing. I fly many asia-pacific destinations and occasionally we are bombarded with professional photographers (even paparazzi) at destinations on my westbound trips from BC/CA but nearly everyone is snapping some sort of image at an airport. At popular airports you cannot move without seeing professional looking camera carriers. Calgary as you pointed out has one of the best facilities and incredible access for events and plane-spotting photography inside and outside. Check out airliners.net
If you aren’t getting the shots you want, it has noting to do with the location. A man with that many lenses should know that! Don’t hear David Bailey moaning hehe.
post #239 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by igreg View Post

Excellent question. I have yet to see an answer about how long a peson can play a video game with a static icon without concern for burn-in. Perhaps because no standard answer is out there?

I would say each brand and even each product line has varying levels of IR saturation and evaporation, I don’t think there is a clear table for this topic. People will need to experiment for themselves and use all the available technology and information they have access to.
post #240 of 5206
Then can you provide a model that will stand up to a full day of console gaming with no break?

If this question has no clear answer, does that mean this kind of use is not tried with plasma? Does that mean I should go with lcd instead?
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