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Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 127

post #3781 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by bokes View Post

I have not been in awhile.
My Pioneer Kuro pro Elite 111FD has been more or less perfect.
I have noticed some occasional IR from games or black bars before.
A few days ago I noticed an IR of the cartoon Network on the lower right screen- CN.
My son watches this station about 2 hours daily while he plays in the room.

It's been several days and it's still there.
I have zoomed in on the screen in an effort to wash it out.
So far- it's still there.

needless to say I'm quite pissed.
What is wrong with these stations that they need to ruin our televisions?
Why do they have to tell us what station we're watching? We tuned in- isn't that enough.
I want to write the network and complain- but know it will do nothing but waste my time.


Anyway- any IR in the past has gone away in time- but this time it is being real stubborn.
Any advice? Or just wait it out and hope for the best?

I had some stubborn IR caused by the RETURN logo on the main menu. I ran the scroll bar and full content for a few days. It lightened up but it was still there. Last night I ran the Disney WOW Pixel Flipper for one hour and it was gone.
post #3782 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

Very true. Black bars don't seem to cause much in the way of IR with these years sets. Bright station logos and game HUD's seem to be the worst offenders.

I've been playing A LOT of CoD lately and the HUD hasn't been much of a concern for me. Maybe my 42UT50 is just stronger than the other sets. I've gamed up to periods of 3+ hours and I haven't noticed much from the HUD.
Edited by Jawzey - 9/3/12 at 12:21am
post #3783 of 5198
DELETED
Edited by Drummerdude82 - 7/23/12 at 11:35am
post #3784 of 5198
In general, matters like IR and burn-in are given short shrift in reviews. Interestingly, this review discusses this in relative depth. David MacKenzie, the reviewer, was one of the 4 calibrators at this year's Flat Panel shootout:

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps60e6500-ps51e6500-201207262022.htm

Go to the 3rd page of the review to see this discussed.

To quote a paragraph:

"We deliberately put this at the top of the Picture Performance section, because we think the Samsung PS60E6500′s performance in this area is a big deal. Image retention is often cited as the main reason to avoid buying a Plasma television. While we think the issue is often blown out of proportion and confused with permanent screen burn, there’s no denying that it’s an annoyance we’d rather be without. The fact that Samsung has produced a plasma display which is, for most reasonable purposes, free of this issue, is an outstanding achievement."

Edit: added paragraph.
post #3785 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post

In general, matters like IR and burn-in are given short shrift in reviews. Interestingly, this review discusses this in relative depth. David MacKenzie, the reviewer, was one of the 4 calibrators at this year's Flat Panel shootout:
http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/samsung-ps60e6500-ps51e6500-201207262022.htm
Go to the 3rd page of the review to see this discussed.
To quote a paragraph:
"We deliberately put this at the top of the Picture Performance section, because we think the Samsung PS60E6500′s performance in this area is a big deal. Image retention is often cited as the main reason to avoid buying a Plasma television. While we think the issue is often blown out of proportion and confused with permanent screen burn, there’s no denying that it’s an annoyance we’d rather be without. The fact that Samsung has produced a plasma display which is, for most reasonable purposes, free of this issue, is an outstanding achievement."
Edit: added paragraph.

For what it's worth. My Panasonic ST30 is also awesome with regards to temporary image retention (TIR). In fact, I have only gotten TIR a few times from watching something static for 4 plus hours without switching up my viewing. Each time, the retention was gone in literally seconds. I watch whatever I want on my Panasonic and for how long I like and TIR hasn't been a issue either. I think Samsung is only getting this extra attention because everyone can't believe they finally do well with TIR .
post #3786 of 5198
hey guys, got a doubt here.lets say im updating a game on my ps3 and that takes quite a bit of time.i switch off my tele and let the update go on.will this help in preventing ir/burn ins since the tele is not operating or there is no static images there(well obviously since its off right)?drink
Edited by piterli - 7/26/12 at 5:45pm
post #3787 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by piterli View Post

hey guys, got a doubt here.lets say im updating a game on my ps3 and that takes quite a bit of time.i switch off my tele and let the update go on.will this help in preventing ir/burn ins since the tele is not operating or there is no static images there(well obviously since its off right)?drink

Yes, it will indeed help. However, if whatever you are downloading is no longer than ten minutes, you shall be fine either way.
post #3788 of 5198
I recently purchased a Panasonic TC-P50UT50 (2 weeks ago) and I notice the word "MENU" is retained on my screen. Obviously I spent too much time adjusting the TV settings before the 100-hour break-in period. My question is, is there a way to reverse this? I've probably watched the TV for around 60-70 hours so far. Any help is appreciated.
post #3789 of 5198
Got a 50" GT50 on July 6th. Took it easy for the first couple of hundred hours. About a week ago I started playing a game with some more or less fixed menus on either side of the screen. Last night I noticed the game ghosted on the screen while watching TV. I've Been running the anti image retention for a couple of hours now with no improvement.

So here's a warning. This TV WILL burn in running games with out of the box settings. It will do so in a relatively short amount of time. The default game mode settings are far too bright. Your average consumer will not know these things. I didn't until this morning. I assumed since I gamed on my Samsung plasma for six years with no problems that burn in was a thing of the past.
Now my TV is most likely ruined.
My only question is why aren't the default settings more conservative?
post #3790 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burned View Post

Got a 50" GT50 on July 6th. Took it easy for the first couple of hundred hours. About a week ago I started playing a game with some more or less fixed menus on either side of the screen. Last night I noticed the game ghosted on the screen while watching TV. I've Been running the anti image retention for a couple of hours now with no improvement.
So here's a warning. This TV WILL burn in running games with out of the box settings. It will do so in a relatively short amount of time. The default game mode settings are far too bright. Your average consumer will not know these things. I didn't until this morning. I assumed since I gamed on my Samsung plasma for six years with no problems that burn in was a thing of the past.
Now my TV is most likely ruined.
My only question is why aren't the default settings more conservative?

I think you are jumping the gun a bit. Don't play games for a few days and just watch a broad array of content. If it is still present in a few days then think again.
post #3791 of 5198
My nephew played Left 4 Dead 2 (Xbox 360) on my Panasonic U50 for approximately 2 hours. It took nearly a week and a half for the game huds to completely disappear, and that was also with never playing that game again. I have somewhere around 500-600 hours on my unit by now, IR has lessened since the first 100 hours, but it is still a problem with my tv, especially gaming.
post #3792 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterG View Post

I think you are jumping the gun a bit. Don't play games for a few days and just watch a broad array of content. If it is still present in a few days then think again.

Perhaps, but it's pretty alarming this happened so quickly. I bought this TV based off of an article on best TV's for gaming
post #3793 of 5198
Disney WOW pixel flipper works much better then the scroll bar or watching regular content.
post #3794 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burned View Post

Perhaps, but it's pretty alarming this happened so quickly. I bought this TV based off of an article on best TV's for gaming

I still believe that this will go away given enough time. Referring to the review I posted above, I will quote another part of it:

".... In this setup, input lag was only 16ms compared to a CRT display, making the Samsung PS60E6500 one of the fastest TVs for gaming we’ve tested. Couple this with an uncanny ability to avoid image retention, coupled with the usual picture quality and motion clarity inherent to Plasma technology, and we’re left with a video gamer’s dream."

That being said, I do think you have a fine display for gaming and quite possibly, although still very much anecdotal as experiences vary, it may become more resistant to IR.
post #3795 of 5198
OK, so I'm going to put it on something like HBO and just leave it on to see if it will go away. Should I crank up the brightness and contrast? I've noticed the TV settings are much dimmer than the game mode.
post #3796 of 5198
You guys are all freaking out. Welcome to the Plasma world, they are called 'heavy image retentions' and will disappear in a couple of months. Just watch regular tv.
post #3797 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80sGuy View Post

You guys are all freaking out. Welcome to the Plasma world, they are called 'heavy image retentions' and will disappear in a couple of months. Just watch regular tv.

That is not very helpful for someone who has just bought a new TV and perhaps was not prepared for what he is seeing. That said, I do agree with your suggestion of merely watching regular tv. Yes, the pixel flipper may well speed up the the removal of the IR but that merely feeds into the whole neurotic process. So one find one's first case of IR and then you run the pixel flipper for several hours and the IR hopefully goes away, all the while not enjoying the TV as it was meant to be enjoyed. You then relax and start feeling happier about your purchase until the next incident of IR and the cycle continues until, hopefully, the IR becomes less and less prevalent. Clearly, there is panel to panel variance within a specific model number and some may get IR and others not (or perhaps not noticing it). There is a mass of anecdotal information on various forums on both sides of the Atlantic.

With that all said, it seems clear that if one wants the best chance of not seeing IR (and if IR is something that would be particular bothersome to you), and you want a pdp, the best choice is one of the E6500/E7000/E8000 series. You will not get the deepest blacks, and your Samsung is quite likely to be more prone to buzzing, but you will probably get better image processing on less than pristine sources... etc etc. Essentially, pick your poison.
post #3798 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by 80sGuy View Post

You guys are all freaking out. Welcome to the Plasma world, they are called 'heavy image retentions' and will disappear in a couple of months. Just watch regular tv.

I had a 42" Samsung plasma for 6 years, gamed extensively, and never had an issue. I'm freaking out because newer TV's are supposed to be better about this sort of thing, and it's visible no matter what is on the screen, not just with a solid bright background.
post #3799 of 5198
post #3800 of 5198
Hi Guys!
Just wanted an opinion. I have completed 155 hours of the "break-in" period on my Samsung D8000 Plasma TV (its a 2011 model). I've used the low settings and also the RGB slides intermittently to achieve these hours.

Do you think this is enough or shall i do the whole yard till 200 hours? I've played PS3 on it and am not a 6-hour gamer anyways - but so far none of the content i've watched on the TV has had any IR retention on the screen .. its faring well in my view.

Thanks for any support! Cheers!
post #3801 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemetal77 View Post

Hi Guys!
Just wanted an opinion. I have completed 155 hours of the "break-in" period on my Samsung D8000 Plasma TV (its a 2011 model). I've used the low settings and also the RGB slides intermittently to achieve these hours.
Do you think this is enough or shall i do the whole yard till 200 hours? I've played PS3 on it and am not a 6-hour gamer anyways - but so far none of the content i've watched on the TV has had any IR retention on the screen .. its faring well in my view.
Thanks for any support! Cheers!

I have the humble E450 and I never did any of that break-in stuff.
Left it on 10 days straight.
No IR issues at all and I pause the DVR all the time.
From day one with the Cell Light at it's max of 20 and set to 'Movie' mode.
Brightness 50 daytime / 40 for evening and 35 for a dark room
Contrast 100 daytime / 97 for evening and 93 for a dark room
Sharpness 0
post #3802 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

I have the humble E450 and I never did any of that break-in stuff.
Left it on 10 days straight.
No IR issues at all and I pause the DVR all the time.
From day one with the Cell Light at it's max of 20 and set to 'Movie' mode.
Brightness 50 daytime / 40 for evening and 35 for a dark room
Contrast 100 daytime / 97 for evening and 93 for a dark room
Sharpness 0

Yeah i guess i've had enuf of the low settings.. I'm gonna put it up on the calibrated movie mode.

My plasma is in a media room (or so we call it) so mostly the light remains the same in the room (darkish) .. we can open up a window blind but its never direct sunlight so my brightness/cell light can remain the same between time of the day or night. Yes if its at night and the light is closed as well - i can see i would be happier with a lower brightness.

I have my calibrated settings as follows:
- Brightness: 45
- Contrast: 95
- Cell light: 8
- Sharpness: 20
- Color: 50
- G-R Ratio: 55-45
- Color temp: Warm1
- Color gammut: Auto
- White balance: Auto
- White 10p: Off
- Dynamic contrast: Off
- Edge enhc: Off
- Cinema motion: Off
- Dynamic black: Dark
- Gamma: 0
- Noise reduction: Off
- Mpeg noise: Off

I noticed your cell light was at 20 .. if i do that the room doesn't need any more light .. its too bright! .. so i guess my settings give me a bright enough picture (i'm not a fan of too bright). I think also having the cell light low reduces power consumption.

Great no more break-in then smile.gif
post #3803 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemetal77 View Post

Yeah i guess i've had enuf of the low settings.. I'm gonna put it up on the calibrated movie mode.
My plasma is in a media room (or so we call it) so mostly the light remains the same in the room (darkish) .. we can open up a window blind but its never direct sunlight so my brightness/cell light can remain the same between time of the day or night. Yes if its at night and the light is closed as well - i can see i would be happier with a lower brightness.
I have my calibrated settings as follows:
- Brightness: 45
- Contrast: 95
- Cell light: 8
- Sharpness: 20
- Color: 50
- G-R Ratio: 55-45
- Color temp: Warm1
- Color gammut: Auto
- White balance: Auto
- White 10p: Off
- Dynamic contrast: Off
- Edge enhc: Off
- Cinema motion: Off
- Dynamic black: Dark
- Gamma: 0
- Noise reduction: Off
- Mpeg noise: Off
I noticed your cell light was at 20 .. if i do that the room doesn't need any more light .. its too bright! .. so i guess my settings give me a bright enough picture (i'm not a fan of too bright). I think also having the cell light low reduces power consumption.
Great no more break-in then smile.gif

You need at least 500 hours before you start to get the 'real'
potential of your picture quality.
That's why I recommend to leave it on 24/7.
I left mine on the HD Tru and ID channels when not watching
they have opaque logos and no black bar programing.
If people around you complain explain:
it's like a fine wine that has to age a little.
It's only temporary, don't have a cow man.

Brightness and Contrast are the main two to fiddle with.
I watch mostly at night in the dark and once your eyes
and brain get used to it these plasmas look sick, I mean that in a good way.

Cell light should be set to max and left that way.
Cell light is just a holdover from the menu on the LCD/LED sets and it's how Sammy gets
low energy star ratings buy turning it way down is the default.
Adjust Brightness, Contrast and even Gamma if you want.

Sharpness is anything but that. it's just another contrast control and it adds artifacts.
Turn it to 0 and the brightness goes down slightly and you get clean looking detail.

your Dynamic black should be at the max for the best blacks

G-R Ratio: 55-45 (are you sure about this?
try it at 50/50 for a while.
post #3804 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burned View Post

Got a 50" GT50 on July 6th. Took it easy for the first couple of hundred hours. About a week ago I started playing a game with some more or less fixed menus on either side of the screen. Last night I noticed the game ghosted on the screen while watching TV. I've Been running the anti image retention for a couple of hours now with no improvement.
So here's a warning. This TV WILL burn in running games with out of the box settings. It will do so in a relatively short amount of time. The default game mode settings are far too bright. Your average consumer will not know these things. I didn't until this morning. I assumed since I gamed on my Samsung plasma for six years with no problems that burn in was a thing of the past.
Now my TV is most likely ruined.
My only question is why aren't the default settings more conservative?

So here we are several days later. I've avoided gaming completely, I've had the set on for easily 70 hours running full screen high def content at the same settings that caused the IR. Which BTW are Panasonic's DEFAULT game mode settings. The IR has faded somewhat. It is still visible during most content, but I admit I have to look for a bit sometimes before it pops out. It's still very visible against solid backgrounds in any lighter color. I just got a copy of the WOW DVD today, and have run about 2 hours of pixel flipper with no change.
I'm going to give it some time, but I'm not happy at all with Panasonic, and I feel it's justified. The default gaming settings are irresponsibly bright with MAXED (as in 100%) contrast. They ship these units with preset settings that WILL cause IR, and there is insufficient warning about the possibility of panel damage.
post #3805 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Burned View Post

So here we are several days later. I've avoided gaming completely, I've had the set on for easily 70 hours running full screen high def content at the same settings that caused the IR. Which BTW are Panasonic's DEFAULT game mode settings. The IR has faded somewhat. It is still visible during most content, but I admit I have to look for a bit sometimes before it pops out. It's still very visible against solid backgrounds in any lighter color. I just got a copy of the WOW DVD today, and have run about 2 hours of pixel flipper with no change.
I'm going to give it some time, but I'm not happy at all with Panasonic, and I feel it's justified. The default gaming settings are irresponsibly bright with MAXED (as in 100%) contrast. They ship these units with preset settings that WILL cause IR, and there is insufficient warning about the possibility of panel damage.

Very odd. IR should not have happened .. its probably not a BURN IN .. just Image Retention anyways .. but yeah weird that it happened.

I agree, the Game Mode has such high Brightness/Contrast and Cell Light values .. first of all i can't be playing with such brightness coming at my face .. i toned it down just like i did with my normal TV viewing .. so you should have done that too ..

I don't know which game lasts that long on 1 screen though .. don't you take breaks or switch menus or stuff? .. You should do that for ergonomics if not anything else ..

Secondly there are a lot of anti-image burn features in TV's these days .. the Samsung i have has a pixel shift which i've turned on for every 4 minutes .. this will ensure the image on the screen shifts slightly every now n then so that not the exact phosphors would burn .. it could be called Image Orbiting or something in yours ..
post #3806 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan View Post

You need at least 500 hours before you start to get the 'real'
potential of your picture quality.
That's why I recommend to leave it on 24/7.
I left mine on the HD Tru and ID channels when not watching
they have opaque logos and no black bar programing.
If people around you complain explain:
it's like a fine wine that has to age a little.
It's only temporary, don't have a cow man.

Brightness and Contrast are the main two to fiddle with.
I watch mostly at night in the dark and once your eyes
and brain get used to it these plasmas look sick, I mean that in a good way.

Cell light should be set to max and left that way.
Cell light is just a holdover from the menu on the LCD/LED sets and it's how Sammy gets
low energy star ratings buy turning it way down is the default.
Adjust Brightness, Contrast and even Gamma if you want.
Sharpness is anything but that. it's just another contrast control and it adds artifacts.
Turn it to 0 and the brightness goes down slightly and you get clean looking detail.

your Dynamic black should be at the max for the best blacks
G-R Ratio: 55-45 (are you sure about this?
try it at 50/50 for a while.

500 hours for the picture to settle - yes.. not for break-in period ..

Cell light to max? Are you kidding me? If i do that the TV has so much light i could see it under the sun and wouldn't need the lights in the room .. and i pay my own bills .. thank you i'll keep it low.

Yes G-R 55-45 is what I like .. the Color Temperature to Warm1 makes it enough red .. so this setting tones it down.
post #3807 of 5198
Just offering another perspective, I've been gaming on my 65Vt30 for 8 months with no problems.
post #3808 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemetal77 View Post

500 hours for the picture to settle - yes.. not for break-in period ..

aren't settle and break-in are the same thing?
the phospers have to age at least 500 hrs.
post #3809 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluemetal77 View Post

Very odd. IR should not have happened .. its probably not a BURN IN .. just Image Retention anyways .. but yeah weird that it happened.
I agree, the Game Mode has such high Brightness/Contrast and Cell Light values .. first of all i can't be playing with such brightness coming at my face .. i toned it down just like i did with my normal TV viewing .. so you should have done that too ..
I don't know which game lasts that long on 1 screen though .. don't you take breaks or switch menus or stuff? .. You should do that for ergonomics if not anything else ..
Secondly there are a lot of anti-image burn features in TV's these days .. the Samsung i have has a pixel shift which i've turned on for every 4 minutes .. this will ensure the image on the screen shifts slightly every now n then so that not the exact phosphors would burn .. it could be called Image Orbiting or something in yours ..

Pixel orbiter was turned on. The game was an FPS with fixed HUD elements. I ran the wow disc pixel flipper overnight, and I could swear it made things worse. It makes me ill even to look at it. frown.gif
post #3810 of 5198

Let's Talk IR on 2012 Panasonic Plasmas

What is the story with IR with the 2012 Panasonic ;plasmas?

* Cnet reports persistent IR on the Panny plasmas, compared to none for the Samsung plasma.

* Some 2011 panny customers are reporting WORSE IR after 1000 hours.

* Some people report IR lasting days, weeks and even months.

* Some people report only seconds worth of IR, and don't seem to have any problems.

This makes no sense. Is there a schedule or ratio such as 30 minutes of static image to 30 minutes of moving image? I'd like to use it with a HTPC, perhaps some web browsing, but I can't get any idea of what is acceptaible, if any.

Michael
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