Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 129

I've had my GT50 for about 2 to 2 1/2 months now. For the longest amount of time it was the perfect tv. I ran the slides and kept content to full screen for the first couple weeks. I started gaming a little bit after that and had no issues with IR. I've been doing that cycle since then and lately I'm starting to get lots and lots of IR. I have a EA logo that still hasn't faded away from a 3 hour game of NCAA a week ago. I've ran the pixel flipper, the IR bar on the tv and even ran the slides again for a while. It still won't completely go away. I get fades of IR just from browsing netflix.. I don't get it, it was perfect until a week ago... I usually run the tv on THX mode or game mode with the pixel orbiter on. Any ideas? I really want this EA logo gone. It's faded a lot but still very noticeable. I really am kinda wishing I would of got a LED/LCD

Try to keep your brightness and contrast at least under 70 when gaming. Don't say that you wish you purchased LED/LCD. The problems you would most likely experience with those sets would not outweigh the one problem that is wrong with PDP, and that problem with PDP can be eliminated if the set is used in the correct way. I have a post on one of the threads on the first page titled "UT50 Burn In" or something along the lines of that. I posted my steps to eliminating IR, so take a look at that if you want further help with your IR problem. Best of luck to you.

So my roomate just got a Pany TC-p60gt50.

No break in or anything. Don't think he read the manual, I will be reading it tonight. He is using it mostly for gaming, a PC monitor once a week for a bit, and movies.

Looks like there is ghosting from the windows icons and video UI. How do you tell if this is burn or IR?

Also, a question about breaking in the TV and getting rid of IR. I took an ISF class many years ago and was told plasmas should be "seasoned" and the instructors advised that when not viewing movies or what not that a 40-60 IRE grayscale full screen. Is this still common practice or is the "break in DVD" the big ticket now?

I was also told by my instructors that if IR were to occur then just throw up a grayscale full screen again when you were not watching the display. Is this common practice as well?

Hoping I don't have to tell him he cooked his brand new TV. The images are hardly visible normally, but with a white screen they are clearly there. (As in I never noticed them until the white background was in place.

So what do you guys recommend? ISF is premier in vid calibrations (as if I needed to tell you guys ) So I'm thinking of having him go for the grayscale test pattern unless the break in dvd has advantages.

And to reiterate, how can you tell if something is burned in or just IR? Wait it out? optical inspection?

I did just get him to turn down the brightness and contrast so hopefully that will curtail any more IR, (or burn in)

Regards,

Steve

William, that will be a relief for him. Me too because will probably go downstairs now, as we just found out that our Sony LCD that was crapping bad TV for 30 minutes after power on has actually gotten attention from Sony and should hopefully be getting a new LCD panel or replacement TV.

Thanks for the response.

Is running a50 to 60 ire grayscale ok for IR reduction ok? Or better to use the DVD at the beginning of this post? As I said my ISF training was quite a long time ago.

Regards,

Steve

Well, I wanted to share my boneheaded story, and hopefully get a little reassurance. I got my Panasonic P60ST50 at around 9:00 a.m. this past Saturday (September 15th), and I wanted to watch a little football on my new display, so I switched it over to ESPN. I'm sure you can see where this is going.

I just didn't think about ESPN's "bottom line". The thing is constantly on the screen, even during commercials. I have a habit of leaving the TV on as background noise, while doing chores, surfing the net, etc. Well, next thing I know, it's 4:30 p.m., and I've had it on ESPN for 6 hours. Also, coming from a Samsung PN59D7000 on which I watched what I wanted, when I wanted for as long as I wanted, I really didn't think about IR. Well, the ESPN logo stuck.

I've owned the display for a little over a hundred hours or so, and it's probably been on for about 70. I've ran the scroll bar for about 24 hours total, along with watching various full screen content, and not watching ESPN at all. It's very faded, and the only time I can see the faded "ESPN" logo is on my PS3 start menu, and only when there's a pink colored background. I don't see it on anything else.

I can of course, try to return it, but seeing as all the research I've read states that it will go away, eventually, I think I'm gonna see if I can wait it out. Hell, I'm halfway through the break in period. I want to get this thing calibrated ASAP.

My wife watches ABC non stop and their stupid logo is stuck on the bottom right of the screen now. What do I need to do to get this off? It's a panasonic plasma. I tried the white bar thing built into the tv and it didnt really help...

Oh and I ran the plasma break in thats linked at the top of this thread for 4 hours... it didnt fix it.
Edited by swtguy - 9/28/12 at 7:27pm

If you can, run a white snowy picture in the vivid mode for several hours a day. I had a similar issue last year with the YES channel score ticker when I was watching nothing but ball games for a week and it worked for me. Now that my set has more mileage on it and I watch plenty of mixed full screen content, it is no longer an issue. Also, make sure your brightness and contrast is calibrated properly.



Ian

Well, my IR came out, eventually. I went into the service menu to run the scrolling bar for a couple of days, along with avoiding anything at all with logos, tickers, and watching nothing but full screen content. It took about 75 hours to get rid of that ESPN logo.

But, now, after having my display professionally calibrated after I hit 200 hours, I do get a bit of IR, but a ten minute run with the Scroll Bar through the user menu totally clears it up.

What is the best method to burn-in the new VT50? I just bought a 55 inch VT50. It will be delivered on Tuesday.

Is DVD the best way to go? Are there any good patterns available online for this? What is the detailed process for it? Can I watch the TV at all until burn-in is complete?

I am sure these issues have been addressed before. Just point me to it. Thanks!

Do NOT use a DVD in case it stops playing unexpectedly. I used Slides on an SD card side loaded into the TV. You can watch TV, but turn your Contrast way down. For example, I used Cinema Mode with Contrast at 20 to 30. It looks awful at first, but you get used to it.

Hi. I use my VT50 as a monitor for my pc. Have notised a line on the screen, where the adressbar is on firefox, that is lagging behind when watching movies, gifs or scrolling fast. And also not that long ago i notised another one in the middle of the screen.
It goes over the whole screen. The tv is a few months old. Could this be the pc HDMI-out's fault? Because I tried watching a clip with a SD card, and there was no line of delay.
But when running the scroll bar, i can see trace of firefox's navigation bar.
If i can fix this by running the built in scroll bar, how long should i run it?

I guess i always have to use F11 from now on.

I hope this is the right thread

Hi
I've had the 65"GT30 for about 3 months. Waited for about 150 hours before playing any video games on the set. Made the "mistake" of playing Madden 13, and now I'm dealing with some serious IR which I think may be permanent burn in. First, I'm not a plasma newbie. I've owned my other plasma for about 8 years and have had no issues. I'd say that I played Madden for a combine 12-15 hours over a 3 week period (it was new, I was into it). Now, I can't seem to shake the EA SPORTS logo in the upper right. Thankfully, it's out of normal line of sight, but horrendously aggravating. I've run a series of tools to try and rid it, and while it's not as bad as it was when it first happended (about 3 weeks ago), it's very noticiable during light colored sequences. I'd say I've probably run a combo of static (both black and white and colored) and white screens with that area blacked out to try and "even things out." Has anyone else had serious IR that persists this long with this set? At this point, I fear it's permanent and that I'll just have to learn to live with it. Hoping that it continues to fade over time. Last question: Is an all-white screen the best method to try and blot this out? Any and all suggestions would be helpful. I know this is mostly my fault. I didn't switch out of THX mode which meant that the pixel orbiter wasn't on, didn't realize that that feature didn't exist in that mode. Thanks, all!

I've had the best luck with an all white screen (on vivid max contrast) on my VT30. I've noticed bad IR on this TV. The only thing I wonder about the all white screen is that it may be invoking the ABL(Auto Brightness Limiter), which may be prolonging your recovery since it's probably not as bright as the EA SPORTS logo. For me, some fade away in a few hours, but some take a few days and some I can still see faint traces. For some IRs I've considered just creating a slide with a solid white blob (faded in) for that area to get maximum brightness (of course that may lead to it's own IR ... but it may be better than EA SPORTS).
Edited by fcwdev - 10/25/12 at 7:26am

I believe that a full white screen would probably be the best way. Xrox wrote this post some 4 years ago and which has been cited here many times without disapproval:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1098368/bb-sales-telling-me-of-kuro-burn-in/0_60#post_15415403

I quote one section which appears most apposite to your situation:

3 - MgO Sputtering - High energy discharge in Plasma displays causes Magnesium Oxide to sputter and deposit onto the phosphor and adjacent pixels. The result is a long lasting ghost image that can take many days to remove. It can be seen as a slightly darker image on a full white screen. Ironically, a full white screen for many hours is the best course of action to resolve this issue as it normalized the deposition of MgO to all pixels (evens it out)


Now when I read this at a previous time, I decided to dig a bit in google scholar and there were various peer-reviewed articles discussing this phenomenon and ways were discussed as to how to ameliorate or clear this issue. I found this paper which seems on point:

http://pde.knu.ac.kr/publication/solutions%20to%20remove%20a%20boundary%20image%20sticking%20in%20an%20AC%20plasma%20display%20panel.pdf

I quote:

When displaying the square-type image with peak
luminance for a long time in a plasma display panel
TV, the image sticking appears even in the non-
discharge cells adjacent to the discharge cells, which
is called boundary image sticking. The boundary im-
age sticking phenomenon is predominantly due to
the redeposition of the Mg species on the MgO layer
in the nondischarge region adjacent to the discharge
region. We have proposed three methods than can be
used to remove boundary image sticking. The first is
to completely recover the boundary image sticking
cells by means of full white-aging process.

Regarding the ABL issue, my thoughts were the choice was either a scrolling bar which does not result in the ABL being triggered (but the white only being there for less than say 50% of the time as is the case with the Panasonic scroll bar) or a full white abl-limited image. I thought that the latter might be better as white will be on to a greater extent than there would be diminishment of the output by abl. The question then is how does the image retention respond to a broad variety of intensities of light. Is it linear (which I doubt) or is it something else? I don't know.

Thank you for the informative response. My hesitation was based on the potentially false notion that an all white screen would age the already agressively agend pixels even more and that from a relative basis, everything would look the same. But your post makes a lot of sense (even the science-y parts that I'm pretending to understand!). I'll give it a shot. Static really seems to be doing very little for me and the scrolling white bar seems too limited.

Hello,

After many hours of research and the helpful advice here on AVS, my 65VT50 arrives tomorrow and I want to be sure that I break it in properly.

I have been reading through this thread, but the 129 pages are a bit intimidating. Can someone point me in the right direction of the basic procedure/a list of what to avoid during the break in process?

Thanks!

-Glass

Just bought the Samsung PN60E7000FF. Never owned a plasma before, but know about potential IR. Should I prep this in any way? If this has already been discussed, please point me in the right direction. Thank you.

My 1 month old Panasonic 55VT50 has IR of the word "MENU" in the top left corner. It's from the TV's own menu. I guess I got it from constantly playing with the settings. It's very hard to see it but I know it's there. I can't seem to get rid of it completely. I have tried the Disney flipper for several hours over several days but it doesn't seem to be getting rid of it. Would this all white screen trick get rid of it? How bright should the white screen be and what should I put the contrast at the help eliminate it? Should I use the slides and just pause it for hours or maybe overnight? Thanks for any information.

I used the advice and research from PeterG. Went with an all white screen. I had tried everything, EVERYTHING, before that. Static, color slides, etc... Nothing worked. We're talking roughly 100 hours of static/snow/color screens, very little improvement. Used a whitescreen for 75 hours (was going for 100, but was cut short by Hurricane Sandy), on Vivid setting, max panel brightness, max brightness, max contrast. I probably chopped a few months of life off of the set. But it is the absoluetly ONLY thing that worked. This was to remove IR that was caused by a MAX of 12 hours of videogames over a two to three week period. The bright side, my panel should be a lot more durable going forward! Good luck. What a pain in the a$$.

Thanks. I'm also using the advice of PeterG. I just started doing the all white screen thing today. I sure hope it works.

By the way when you say 75 hours, is that 75 hours continuous? Or is it over a period of several days. Also, did you watch any regular programming during this time? I ran my white screen for about 6 hours today on vivid but I did not crank up the panel, contrast or brightness. No improvement yet. Thanks.

Ok so any claims that the 2012 Samsung TV’s don't have ir or burn are bogus. I bought the E8000 the week it came out. I did the suggested break in that many suggest to prevent ir or burn. Also I had my TV calibrated after the breaking period.

I watch CNN. I never kept the CNN logo on the TV (wide fit) for the first 3 months.

Well after 6 months I noticed that I have a stuck CNN logo on my TV. You can see it clearly with all white and green screens. Not an issue at all during normal watching.

I tried many things to “wash” away the logo and it is still there. After almost half a month of running different methods I decided to just live with it in hopes it will go away.

I just want to point out... SCREEN BURN AND IR IS REAL IN THE 2012 SAMSUNG TV"S

PS> Anyone think an inverted CNN logo on an all white, all green,blue and all red background as a slideshow will help fix this faster? If I take the exact CNN logo from my Tivo and invert it and put it on solid backgrounds and run it as a slide show over the exact location of the burn.

Do you think this could work?

It was 75 continuous hours. I did, however, watch some regular content in between (probably about 4-6 hours max). I was a little nervous because I was afraid the DVD player would stop and go back to the menu, causing an even bigger problem. Guess I got lucky. I'd say it's 80% not visible. Look long enough, and it appears. I believe with time, it will be completely invisible. I've owned plasmas for the past 7 years, this was the first time I thought it might stick. Be patient. Even after 48 hours on all white, I could still see the IR and almost gave up. The next 30 hours seemed to do the trick. Again, if it wasn't for the power outage, I think the last 25 would have completely "erased it." Needless to say, I won't be gaming on my screen until I hit 1,000 hours.

Is Plasma Break-in is a must? I know it'll make phosphor harden faster but I can't leave my TV running for 10h+ straight a day when noone at home.
I watch my plasma TV for 5h a day, out of the box "cinema mode" with various contents; so I'll get to 100- 200h eventually. Do I really need to do break-in for my Panny Plasma?
Edited by fallengt - 11/11/12 at 6:18am

Why don't you just use Pixel Jogger aging for this?

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1406663/pixel-jogger-breakin-improves-pq-plasma-lcd-led-tv-the-only-way

Put the mp4 file on SD card and let it play repeat continuously for few hours each time is ok, if you can't leave running longer straight. And intermittently just watch tv normally.
After 100+ usage, use Pixel Jogger every time for few minutes to warmup/cooling down, before and after watching/using the TV, also in the intermittent breaks.

The logic behind Pixel Jogger is using alternating White and Black image is to aging all pixels properly.
White will activate all RGB Red/Green/Blue pixels at the same time to aging/warming up evenly.
Black deactivate all RGB pixels for cooling down evenly. Thats why its called Pixel Jogger!

Use your logic and make the choice, just do it!

Other users experiences:
http://www.highdefforum.com/gaming-systems/138266-ps3-netflix-logo-burned-into-my-plasma-6.html

http://www.highdefforum.com/flat-panel-tvs/138292-plasma-ir-image-retention-aka-burn-reduction-program-read.html
Edited by iBrad - 11/11/12 at 8:46am

Thanks for the info. I'm running the white screen while I sleep for about 7-8 hours a day. I'm at about 25 hours so far. I do see maybe a slight improvement.

As an avid gamer looking to buy a TV this holiday season (and eying the TC-P55ST50), this thread has officially scared me away from plasmas. I KNOW they have significantly better picture quality. I KNOW they generally have lower input lag. But as a person who freaks out about the smallest things that go wrong with my devices, IR that lasts days or weeks would really drive me crazy with worry that it's permanent. If there's one thing I've learned from this thread, it's that long-lasting IR can still happen even after hundreds of hours of careful break-in and *relatively* little time spent on persistent images, and that it can be incredibly difficult to get rid of. If only this was covered by the manufacturer's warranty, I would consider it.

But I just don't think I'm ready to deal with the stress. I'M NOT STRONG ENOUGH.

I am a very avid gamer. NO image retention whatsoever. Don't worry about it!