Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 14

Personally, I think it's basically impossible for anybody to say how 2008 plasmas are going to hold up 5 years from now....and exactly how much of an issue uneven wear/burn-in might be.

I think it's probably pretty logical to think it's improved alot since 5 years ago....and probably isn't nearly the problem that it used to be. But as a plasma owner, it's still a concern in the back of my head and I really don't want to take chances with it.

Not sure the answer is as cut and dry as you might want it.

The one answer I am sure of though is that LCD ALWAYS has motion problems, virtually with every single LCD with certain content.

So for me, I decided I'd take my chances and use a little caution with a plasma rather than have an LCD that I knew for a fact I was going to be bothered with the picture with issues like blurring, ghosting, uneven lighting ,etc. Those are issues you know you'll get for sure.

So I really think you have trade-offs with either technology. With LCD, you might get a little better feeling about being able to watch any type of content, but you also get other problems with the picture that can't really be controlled. Or with plasma, you can control your viewing and have better PQ.

I opted for the technology that I could control more easily. Sure, I might have to sacrifice a little bit on some aspect ratios, but at least I've got a nice, rich picture without blurred edges all the time.

Point is, there are trade-offs with both technologies.

William, I'm confused. I thought that's what the whole point of grey bars was for - to also drive the side bars to some degree when watching 4:3 content. I thought that leaving them as black was what would cause uneven wear.

.. the 1150hd defaults as grey out of the box, so i'm sure that's where it should remain; you can go into the service menu and change to black, but probably shouldn't.

same here, i think something is missing .

i may get a Plasma Samsung soon, i´m looking for teh recommend view settings i read some user NICE or something but i can´t find it.
Anyone?

My understanding is that using grey sidebars helps prevent uneven wear/burn-in since the phosphors need to "fire"....I think that is the whole point of the grey sidebars. Set them to grey and it's almost like your using the whole screen.

When they are set to black, you aren't using the phosphors so that causes the uneven aging.

Personally, I generally like stretching. Kinda get used to it after awhile and I generally just hate seeing "blank" real estate on the screen.

WRONG! I have a Pioneer 4270 that I posted here and has bURN iN , oops I mean IR (but it hasn't gone away after 3 weeks) oh and by the way mine is in the shop for the second time in 14 months
So with the Pio you get the best in PQ , but it's still man made and anything can happen

LCD sets have made immense strides, so I'm not sure that this is a true statement with some of the latest sets. I've been doing a lot of research on this, but I admit it hasn't gotten to the point where I'm actually comparing sets. It seems like a lot of these typical LCD issues are not much of a problem with some of the latest designs. However, if I find that they haven't dealt with the motion issues well enough for my taste, I'll probably just live with my present TV for another year.

And, yes, the purpose of the gray (vs. black) bars is to attempt to even out the phosphor wear while watching 4x3 material. My RPTV uses the gray bars. They may have delayed the process somewhat, but I did finally end up with noticeable uneven phosphor wear. I'm sure it would have been worse with black bars, but the gray bars did not prevent it.

Follow your owners manual. The manual for my Pio 5080 says use gray bars when not watching full screen content to prevent I/R. I can hardly believe they would knowingly print false info.

The only sets I really looked at for LCD's were the 120HZ Sammy and 120HZ Sony XBR4. Still saw the motion problems on those sets.

Didn't really notice it much in the stores initially because they generally seem to have those sets running blu-ray feeds. But once I was able to see them running "normal" TV feeds in some more controlled environments, I was totally unimpressed.

Don't get me wrong....I really, really wanted an LCD set because I also did not like the idea of worrying about stretching all the time and/or worrying about burn-in.

But I just couldn't convince myself to pull the trigger as I continually found myself liking the plasma pictures better and finding that plasmas were alot cheaper as the Sammy and Sony 52 inch 120HZ sets were going to run me about $700 more than the 50 inch plasma I settled on.

But I'm a heavy sports watcher...so maybe I was just paying more attention to it than you might and LCD might suit you just fine if you're really not too picky about the motion.

So I watch HD as much as possible and stetch what I can. Forunately, also have a 32 inch CRT in the basement that I can watch SD and 4:3 content on if I choose to.....so I sorta feel like I'm able to enjoy the best of both worlds.

i'm confused. how does an LCD set stretch SD any less than a plasma?

They don't. It's just that you don't have to worry about burn-in on LCD TVs, so you don't have to stretch 4:3 content.

oh sorry i misread that.

burn-in is really a non-issue anymore. temporary image rentention yes, but that goes away really quick. i wouldn't make that a defining factor of a purchase, and if you go the Pio route there is basically no burn in and not really any IR either.

what'd you get, a 50" Panny?

I came to this thread a few days ago trying to find out if I should consider a plasma if I watch a fair amount of 4:3 material (I threw out a number of 33%, though it's probably less than that). It became obvious from the replies that, unless you stretch your 4:3 material or watch very little of it, you do have to be worried about burn-in (uneven phosphor wear). It seems that most plasma owners either don't watch 4:3 material or stretch it.

So, yes, it's still very much an issue. I refuse to stretch most 4:3 material and I watch a fair amount of it, so it looks like an LCD for me.

I agree LCD would be better . I have a 4270 Pio and with 2000 hours ( always looked out for Burn-In , oh sorry IR ) I GOT IT by watching 3-4 hours of the NFL draft . THE BAD THING IS THE LOGO is in the upper right hand corner of my set 2"x4" with the words on the clock . Thought after 2000 hours I would be imune , but I guessed wrong . I also have my TV back in the shop ,it's 2 months out of warranty ,but Pioneer will cover the repair . So what I am saying is "Plasma's" you still have to be careful , but when I purchase again (50+ size) I am 99% sure it will be a PIO . Don't like the IR ,but love the PQ. I have been viewing my Sharp Aquos and it's nice ,but for HD you need a PLASMA!!!!!!!!!

i saw your posts bottoms, that sucks. although it seems to be the exception to the rule. but yes, there is always a possibility. however i'll take that 1% chance over motion blur, grey blacks, ghosting, flashlighting, cloudiness, etc.

and i watch 90% HD. i even deleted the local SD channels from my Tivo - why waste time watching SD? i only have a few hours a day to watch TV and there is more than enough HD programming to watch.

I really don't how if it's something you HAVE to be worried about. But I just think that you'll find many plasma owners that choose to be careful just because they don't want a problem.

If you read this thread, seems like 90% of the postings are all posts about people inquiring about burn-in/IR as you did and people's responses to them.

For what its worth, doesn't seem like there are a whole lot of posts of actual cases of severe burn-in or severe uneven phosphor aging....

I'm sure there are cases....but if it was a widespread problem, I sorta doubt plasma TV's would still be around at all after 9 or 10 years or however long they've been if a high percentage of sets were showing all kinds of uneven aging and burn-in. And it seems like there would be a whole lot of posts about it since plasma has been around for quite awhile.

Just my opinion though....don't have any hard and fast evidence. In the end, it's your money and you gotta just go with the technology that makes you the most comfortable.

Thanks. I can't wait to get my plasma back

I've noticed the nice prices that some Plasmas can go for (saw a 50" 1080P for less than $1400 the other day) these days and so I decided to take another look at Plasmas.

For my first HDTV Plasma was eliminated early on. I love the black blacks and lack of motion blur that Plamas have, but my TV is in a location where glare would be a constant concern and we play lots of video games, use the TV as a secondary computer monitor and watch plenty of 4:3 and 2.35:1 content so Plasma was a no go.

Well I'm about to buy a new home and I will probably have an opportunity to set up an HT room where lighting will not be an issue so that concern is a thing of the past. I have also read all of the data from the Plasma TV Coalition and they seem to think that IR is a thing of the past. Yet here we are on page 14 of the second thread about IR. There is post after post of people complaining about IR followed by Plasma enthusiasts that say IR is a thing of the past.

It looks like IR is not a thing of the past; it is simply less prevalent and can be controlled. The same way blur is less prevalent and can be dealt with on LCDs, but if you get up close on any LCD you'll see a little blur. Like the IR on Plasmas it isn't noticeable at normal seating distances, but it is still there. I just wish there was a perfect solution for HDTV right now your choices are bad contrast (LCD), washed out color (Projection) or keeping a strict content schedule that does not consist of too much gaming, too much 4:3, too much 2.35:1 or too much Fox/ESPN/Bloomberg (Plasma).

[. I just wish there was a perfect solution for HDTV right now your choices are bad contrast (LCD), washed out color (Projection) or keeping a strict content schedule that does not consist of too much gaming, too much 4:3, too much 2.35:1 or too much Fox/ESPN/Bloomberg (Plasma).[/quote]

Where I got in trouble was leaving on the the NFL draft for 5 hours, the IR is in the top left hand corner so any snow or sky sceens show it ,if it was on the bottom part I would never see it .I am still optimistic that it will eventually go away I will say after 3 weeks it has faded some

what kind of IR is this...i always hear people mentioning about logos and similar which are then visible as BRIGHT IR....or IR which is visible on the white-wash screen.

But i have kind of an IR which shows only when picture is deep BLACK...its a very faint horizontal bar across the screen, approx 4" wide. The bar shows as very little DARKER than the remaining area of the screen. This is a new set.

Its not that big a deal...but i am running "Pxiel Protector" DVD on "snow" right now since its said that white snow is best for getting rid of IR. Maybe its also some kind of interference???

I dont remember having anything on the screen which could've caused the bar...not on that position (about 1st 3rd of screen, in the middle).

I might check into service menu to double-check panel run-time...just to make sure i didnt get a demo-set sold as brand-new?!

(Its a sammy btw)

would it have been a dark bar..or a white bar...to appear as slightly darker black shadow on black?

just got my plasma. I´m doing using the break in dvd, as we speak. I also change the settings to 50% or less and i set E.Saving at High.

The problem i´m seeing is that i have black crush on movies now. If i want to fix it i have to go a bit higher than 50%
My question is what i should do?

before reaching the safe zone i´ll be watching tons of movies, so i´m force to watch this movies with a wrong calibration? or i can go a bit over 50%?

thanks
Booker

I just got a Samsung PN42A450 and I'm trying to be gentle with it. I'm confused on what settings I should go by on this Samsung FAQ if my only input source from now is regular SD cable. I can't post a link to the FAQ, but it links to Zippy's "Officially" Unofficial Samsung 54/64 PDP settings,tweaks and tips thread.

The standard default settings are like so:

Cell Light: 7
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 50
Color: 50

I don't see any mention of cell light in the recommended settings, and 95 contrast seems like alot, although the default settings look good to me.

If you calibrate your display properly, even before it reaches 100 or 200 hours, you shouldn't worry about burn-in. Maybe you'll get the ocassional (reversible) IR, but not burn-in.

that´s interesting then.

Why there are Pre Break ins and Post break in settings then? why not just a properly calibrate display and that´s it? or just a tip "calibrate with DVE or Avia"?

anyways i found that i had contrast extremely low, at 40% i just rised to 50% and the dithering is much better now, barely noticeable. I assume i´m still on the safe zone because Samsung FAQ recommend a 64% contrast setting on Pre Break in period.

any comments, will be great since i´m really noob on this and i don´t want to start with the wrong foot.

because phospor (or any light source) age, and they age quickly for the first couple hundred hours, so if you calibrate now, 100 hours later the settings will change.
I personally calibrate my work monitor every time I'm about to start a new project, and for my home I calibrate my displays once a year at the very minimum.

And even after several years of usage, every time I re-calibrate, the settings change a bit although not as dramatic as the first couple hundred hours.

oh ok, so basically the idea is to wait until you past the 100hs to calibrate, otherwise you will have to do the same work twice in a very short period of time. Make sense.
Thanks!