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Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 132

post #3931 of 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

Standard mode is too dim when running the slides and kinda defeats the purpose of them. When using Evengelo's "break-in" slides, you want the panel to be fairly bright, not dim. Dim is more for when aging the panel by watching regular content, not for when running the slides, and you'd have to age the panel for 2-3 times longer at dim settings before the phosphors have fully settled in. I equate slideshow aging to searing a rib-eye steak - i grill it hot and fast to seal in the juices and give it a nice crust and it comes out much tastier and juicier than when grilling it with low flame for longer duration. And the energy savings in Standard are negligeable anyway - maybe a dollar's worth if that.
D-Nice's 2012 panel aging slideshow procedure is to basically use the Custom picture mode and leave all the settings at their factory defaults, turn all the photo enhancement options off, and set the slideshow duration to SLOW, and to do this for 100 hours. He is very experienced with all this stuff so go with his method and you're good to go after 100 hours. If you've changed any of the settings in Custom mode even one click then selecting "Reset to Defaults" will restore the factory settings.
His 2011 Panel Aging procedure was different - he posted specific setting for Contrast and Brightness etc, but this year he went with the default Custom mode.

Is it best to use the bright contrast when breaking in the TV when its full screen and no logos, hten use the dimmer settings when there are logos on the screen for the first 200 or so hours?
(this is for the GT50)
post #3932 of 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by davelanger View Post

Is it best to use the bright contrast when breaking in the TV when its full screen and no logos, hten use the dimmer settings when there are logos on the screen for the first 200 or so hours?
(this is for the GT50)

As I understand it, that's the gist of it. Brighter contrast for the slides or whatever full screen/no static image content you're using to age the panel.

But turn down the contrast when watching anything with some static logos, HUDs etc. since the set is more sensitive to IR the first hundred or so hours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

Is there any reason why people suggest to lower picture settings when running slides, then? I mean if they all fill the screen and phosphores all age evenly, what difference does it make what the picture settings are?

Most people recommend to up the contrast so it ages faster--doesn't have to be blazing, just don't want it too low as noted in the post of RandyWalters that you quoted.
post #3933 of 5199
I recently purhased a Samsung plasma. I ran slides and avoided anything but full screen, logo free viewing for about 125 hours. Over the weekend I watched my first two movies at an aspect ratio with black bars. After each of them when the credits were rolling and the screen was essentially all black, I noticed that the area where the black bars were was lighter than the rest of the screen. After the first movie I ran the slides for several minutes and that seemed to get everything back to normal. I haven't done anything yet since watching the second movie last night.

Am I going to have to do this after every movie? If I just shut the TV off, will it retain the problem until I view at full screen again? And finally, over time with frequent movie viewing, is the TV likely to lose the ability to correct the image difference?
post #3934 of 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTE15 View Post

Am I going to have to do this after every movie? If I just shut the TV off, will it retain the problem until I view at full screen again? And finally, over time with frequent movie viewing, is the TV likely to lose the ability to correct the image difference?

I thought the slides were used to age the pixels uniformly for better calibration, not to protect/reduce IR?
post #3935 of 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jagged68 View Post

I thought the slides were used to age the pixels uniformly for better calibration, not to protect/reduce IR?

That is correct, but also aging the the pixels past 200-400 hours also seems to be the sweet spot when IR happens less and goes away faster. so its really just a bonus that it helps with IR.

That is my understanding. The sliders are really just needed if you are going to use D NIce slides
post #3936 of 5199
Yep. As I understand it, for IR, it's just a way to age the panel faster than just using it normally (which means it's turned off while at work, while asleep etc.).

Plasmas tend to be more prone to IR the first couple hundred outs. Running slides day and night when not in use just gets you past that break in period faster than turning it off when not in use. As well as aging the panel faster so you can calibrate sooner etc.
post #3937 of 5199
Yes, I used the slides to age the panel more quickly. My question is about the IR I am seeing after watching the movies. i have been getting quite a bit of conflicting information. Is this something that is going to be an ongoing issue every time I watch a movie and is it a cumulative effect such that the more movies I watch the worse it is going to get?
post #3938 of 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTE15 View Post

I recently purhased a Samsung plasma. I ran slides and avoided anything but full screen, logo free viewing for about 125 hours. Over the weekend I watched my first two movies at an aspect ratio with black bars. After each of them when the credits were rolling and the screen was essentially all black, I noticed that the area where the black bars were was lighter than the rest of the screen. After the first movie I ran the slides for several minutes and that seemed to get everything back to normal.

I don't think it's a great idea to compare the color of the black bars to the black background of the credits. There's just no way to know that they're even supposed to be the same shade. If you're running the credits and think you see a difference in color levels, immediately put on a dark, full screen slide (like DNice's darkest slide) and see if you can tell a difference with that. THEN you can be paranoid wink.gif
post #3939 of 5199
I hear what you are saying. Unfortunately I did put the slides on (actually the white one) and there was a noticeable difference in shade where the two black bars were. As I mentioned, after running the slides for several minutes, the difference went away and the picture was back to normal. I'm trying to figure out if this is normal and whether I need to be concerned that if I watch too many movies I may wind up with permanent burn in (i.e., whether the effect is cumlative) even though it seems to have been corrected.

By he way, I had the TV on movie (not torch) mode and contrast turned down to about 80 (of 100).
Edited by LTE15 - 1/7/13 at 2:04pm
post #3940 of 5199
I wouldn't worry about the IR if:]

1. You aren't noticing it during normal usage.
2. It's going away quickly even when you check with white slides etc.

It will go away just from watching a little full screen content, no need to be constantly checking white slides and running slides to wipe it etc.

The only real risk of serious IR that's hard to get rid of comes from having bright, static images on the screen for hours on end. As long as you're mixing content between TV, movies (full and with black bars) etc. any IR will be temporary and likely not noticeable unless you check white slides etc.
post #3941 of 5199
TV - Panasonic 55" GT30
Age - One Year
Break In - Used Dave_O's settings and careful viewing for the first 75-90 hours

Started seeing residue and ghostng from images in video games. I do the "Bar Swipe" in the menu whenever I can or get up for a break from gaming. I've seen more IR but mainly because of playing one game and not others. I use "Custom Mode"...no vivid or game modes. In the past I've just ran one of the White Slides from the slide break-ins everyone uses. Today I'm trying out the "Pixel Jogger" for the first time. I'll run it, the Bar Swipe and the Whitenoise (Pixel Jogger) a few hours everyday this week and see if I notice anything by Saturday or sooner. I will make a report as to my findings but just as a visual one.
post #3942 of 5199
eff it

I'm getting my GT50 tomorrow and will use it any way I want (movies, logos, gaming, etc) out of the box for 3 straight weeks
if I notice anything I don't like, it's going back

like hell I'm dropping over a grand on a TV just to baby it when I never had to do any such thing for the plasma I bought SEVEN years ago...no picture quality is worth that

I don't know what percentage of these 2012 panny plasmas are problematic, I'm pretty sure it's fairly small...but for the amount of OCD screen wiping and stressing out I see from people on this and other forums, that damn TV better be able to give me a hand job if I have to give it more attention than my girlfriend

I'll report back with my findings, something tells me I won't have any issues but the lengths I see people going to borders on insanity
post #3943 of 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by ispeck View Post

eff it
I'm getting my GT50 tomorrow and will use it any way I want (movies, logos, gaming, etc) out of the box for 3 straight weeks
if I notice anything I don't like, it's going back
like hell I'm dropping over a grand on a TV just to baby it when I never had to do any such thing for the plasma I bought SEVEN years ago...no picture quality is worth that
I don't know what percentage of these 2012 panny plasmas are problematic, I'm pretty sure it's fairly small...but for the amount of OCD screen wiping and stressing out I see from people on this and other forums, that damn TV better be able to give me a hand job if I have to give it more attention than my girlfriend
I'll report back with my findings, something tells me I won't have any issues but the lengths I see people going to borders on insanity

Sounds like a winner, I'm curious to hear you report back.

I'm the same way, I dropped $2K on that TV and I am going to enjoy the hell out of it, that includes Gaming and Movies.
post #3944 of 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTE15 View Post

I recently purhased a Samsung plasma. I ran slides and avoided anything but full screen, logo free viewing for about 125 hours. Over the weekend I watched my first two movies at an aspect ratio with black bars. After each of them when the credits were rolling and the screen was essentially all black, I noticed that the area where the black bars were was lighter than the rest of the screen. After the first movie I ran the slides for several minutes and that seemed to get everything back to normal. I haven't done anything yet since watching the second movie last night.
Am I going to have to do this after every movie? If I just shut the TV off, will it retain the problem until I view at full screen again? And finally, over time with frequent movie viewing, is the TV likely to lose the ability to correct the image difference?

If it helps, I used to see that too. 15 months later, I watched five movies with 2.35:1 aspect ratios in one day, and I don't see a shred of that. And I looked, too.

Yeah, that's a lot of hours put into the TV, but still...
post #3945 of 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

If it helps, I used to see that too. 15 months later, I watched five movies with 2.35:1 aspect ratios in one day, and I don't see a shred of that. And I looked, too.
Yeah, that's a lot of hours put into the TV, but still...

Yes, that is helpful. Thanks. I really love the picture quality of the set, but I have to admit I'm losing my mind a little wondering whether after spending a considerable amount of money the issues with IR/burn in or whatever you want to call it are going to get better or worse over time. My old Sony rear projection LCD still looks good after 10 years and I never have to ask myself whether I've watched too many movies :-).

My in-laws just bought a basic Samsung LCD and while it's very nice, there is no question in my mind that there is a discernible difference in the picture quality vs. my plasma, especially while watching movies, which is primarily what we do and why I bought the TV to begin with. I figure I have a few choices: (1) roll the dice and hope there is no issue long term; (2) return the set and go back to using my old LCD until something comes out (at a reasonable price) where the picture quality is on par or better than plasma with no IR/burn in issues; or (3) spend some additional money and buy a Best Buy protection plan as insurance (which has its own risks given the financial condition BB is currently in).

When did buying a TV become so complicated??
post #3946 of 5199
You should be fine. No need to run slides to get rid of temporary IR from black bars like you noticed. Should go away almost as fast just watching some full screen content.

IR after the first couple hundred hours is really only an issue for people who don't mix content at all, or play games or watch ESPN for hours and hours on end etc.

For most people, just using the TV normally will be fine as for most that involves 2:35:1 movies, 1:85:1 movies, cable/satellite, games etc. and mixing things up that much will prevent most IR and provides plenty of full screen viewing to wash any out. Most will never notice any minor temporary IR they pick up as well, as a lot of it is only noticeable if you go looking for it on white slides etc.
post #3947 of 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post

You should be fine. No need to run slides to get rid of temporary IR from black bars like you noticed. Should go away almost as fast just watching some full screen content.
IR after the first couple hundred hours is really only an issue for people who don't mix content at all, or play games or watch ESPN for hours and hours on end etc.
For most people, just using the TV normally will be fine as for most that involves 2:35:1 movies, 1:85:1 movies, cable/satellite, games etc. and mixing things up that much will prevent most IR and provides plenty of full screen viewing to wash any out. Most will never notice any minor temporary IR they pick up as well, as a lot of it is only noticeable if you go looking for it on white slides etc.


Very true...My panasonic plasma will be 2 years old this march.And for the first year of its usage I did get temporary IR quite often but used to vanish in 5 to 6 minutes of watching regular tv.But now i watch tv channels with logos and even watching those channels for 2 to 3 hours non stop does not give any IR.It seems the plasma tv's do take sometime to settle down,

Then they become bullet proof ! smile.gif

post #3948 of 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by LTE15 View Post

Yes, that is helpful. Thanks. I really love the picture quality of the set, but I have to admit I'm losing my mind a little wondering whether after spending a considerable amount of money the issues with IR/burn in or whatever you want to call it are going to get better or worse over time. My old Sony rear projection LCD still looks good after 10 years and I never have to ask myself whether I've watched too many movies :-).
My in-laws just bought a basic Samsung LCD and while it's very nice, there is no question in my mind that there is a discernible difference in the picture quality vs. my plasma, especially while watching movies, which is primarily what we do and why I bought the TV to begin with. I figure I have a few choices: (1) roll the dice and hope there is no issue long term; (2) return the set and go back to using my old LCD until something comes out (at a reasonable price) where the picture quality is on par or better than plasma with no IR/burn in issues; or (3) spend some additional money and buy a Best Buy protection plan as insurance (which has its own risks given the financial condition BB is currently in).
When did buying a TV become so complicated??

When people feed concepts into our minds that we actually see these things because we're looking for them.

Let me clarify that I still use the screen wiper function from time to time, and I definitely did after watching movies "just because." But if you put a half hour sleep timer on it, then it shouldn't be too much of a problem anyway, you know?

It's better to have a black top and bottom often than have a white, static ESPN logo show up on your screen.
post #3949 of 5199
Well, after running slides for 1 hour, red green blue flashing full screen YouTube video for 8 hours and pixel jogger for 3 hours my IR is still there and not even slightly better.

I called panasonic and after some more trouble shooting they will send someone out here.
post #3950 of 5199
Hi all,

I've had a 37" Panasonic LCD TV for the past year and a half, and I'm fairly happy with it, but I've been strongly considering treating myself to an upgrade, specifically the 50" Panasonic ST50. But I am worried about IR. With the LCD, I watch pillarboxed 4:3 content all the time, play a lot of video games, and also hook up my PC, all without worrying about IR.

If I were to upgrade, I wouldn't mind having to deal with a brief break-in period, but after this period, I would expect the same freedom and peace of mind that I enjoy right now. No image quality upgrade would be worth sacrificing it.

Having to be disciplined in what I display on the screen is unacceptable.

Having to periodically perform IR-wiping rituals is unacceptable.

Watching Casablanca stretched or zoomed in is unacceptable.

Having a darkened 4:3 region as a result of watching lots of 4:3 content is unacceptable.

Basically, suppose I buy the TV. If in six months, I still have any uneasy feelings about IR or uneven aging, then it has been a downgrade.

Given this, should I still be considering it? And what would be the best break-in practices now, if any, so that I don't have to baby it in the future?

I've tried reading through this thread, but I've found very little that adequately reassures me. Advice like "you don't need to break in if you only watch fullscreen movies" don't satisfy me, because I fully intend to watch content with black bars and play video games. I'd also feel better if I saw more "success stories" of users who have had their screens for a while (especially Panasonic ST50's) and frequently abuse them with no resulting IR.
post #3951 of 5199
I'd skip plasma for that usage.

No way to have total piece of mind if you're having that much 4:3 content, static images from the PC etc. It can be done without IR with caution and watching how long you keep static bars and logos up, varying content etc. But that's not the same freedom and flexibility you're talking about. I'd look into an LED set for your uses, or a regular LCD.

I worry a little with my new plasma as I play some games and watch a good bit of ESPN. But I mix up my usage a lot naturally as I'm into sports, TV, movies and games so I'll seldom have repeated long sessions with the same content/logos/huds etc. displayed.
post #3952 of 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by ispeck View Post

eff it
I'm getting my GT50 tomorrow and will use it any way I want (movies, logos, gaming, etc) out of the box for 3 straight weeks
if I notice anything I don't like, it's going back
like hell I'm dropping over a grand on a TV just to baby it when I never had to do any such thing for the plasma I bought SEVEN years ago...no picture quality is worth that
I don't know what percentage of these 2012 panny plasmas are problematic, I'm pretty sure it's fairly small...but for the amount of OCD screen wiping and stressing out I see from people on this and other forums, that damn TV better be able to give me a hand job if I have to give it more attention than my girlfriend
I'll report back with my findings, something tells me I won't have any issues but the lengths I see people going to borders on insanity

Greatest post ever. I'd really like to hear your experience with just using the TV. I'm really on the fence with getting a plasma and it would bother me to no end if there was image retention because I just watched a hockey game and used the TV that I paid almost $4000 (in Canada with the service plan) to get. Kudos to you!
post #3953 of 5199
After googling and reading many pages about it, I found thisand it is remarkable information and very knowledgable:

http://www.tweakguides.com/HDTV_8.html


====

Another thing is, that IR is the same as it was some years ago, yes there are the functions like image shifting, pixel orbiting etc.
But if you watch 4:3 a lot or play a video game for long which has a static image somewhere, all the pixel shifting won't help you.

It also states on many sites that you need to run a movie-loop of 24-48 hours to remove IR, expecially the more stubborn ones. 24 being the minimum.


One site gave this calculation as for how long you should run your "fix":
[QUOTEWhat exactly is an "extended" period? It is hard to answer due to great differences between the phosphors used in various plasma panels. I would assume this to be at least 4 times the period an image or programming that caused burn-in was displayed. So, for example, if you watched a news channel with a non-transparent logo for a month, two hours a day, and this logo left an after-image on your display, I would recommend running the screen saver for at least 30x2x4=240 hours.][/QUOTE]
post #3954 of 5199
Watched a basketball game on ESPN 2 last night. No hints of IR when I started the slides back up (was at 43 hours of running slides plus whatever of normal watching in between).

Also had no IR after watching the national title game on ESPN/ESPN 3D on Monday as I noted before, and had only run the slides for 5 hours or something at that point.

So I don't think there's a lot of harm IR wise in just using the TVs normally from the get go as long as your normal usage isn't hours on end with the same static images and you don't have the contrast way up (have it in the 70-80 range, mines been on 75-78 as I fiddle with it when watching).
post #3955 of 5199
This is what I want to know, how many hours are too many and when does ir occur?

I have been told at best buy not to worry about ir and that it takes a day or days to cause ir.

Yet on my gt 50 8hours of playing on 2 days already caused a very stubborn ir.
post #3956 of 5199
The best I can gather is that there are no harm and firm answers to that and it varies by the panel, picture settings, how much content is being mixed outside of gaming etc.

If I gamed more than I do (rarely more than 2-3 hour sessions, rarely more than 2 or 3 times a week) I'd get an LED set personally. I just wouldn't have enough peace of mind with a plasma, and would sacrifice black levels etc. personally to have a set where I didn't have to worry about IR. I still have some doubts about going plasma as there's some things I used to do (have ESPN on in the background for hours) that I'll never be comfortable doing on my plasma. But the more I think about it, the more I think it's smarter to just only have a TV on when actively being watched anyway and just play music etc. when working around the house. So I'll likely stick with it since I haven't noticed any IR from my normal usage during the break in period so far.

Will probably play some Borderlands 2 tonight, and will report whether I notice any IR after that.
Edited by dmaul1114 - 1/10/13 at 2:33pm
post #3957 of 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmaul1114 View Post

The best I can gather is that there are no harm and firm answers to that and it varies by the panel, picture settings, how much content is being mixed outside of gaming etc.

If I gamed more than I do (rarely more than 2-3 hour sessions, rarely more than 2 or 3 times a week) I'd get an LED set personally. I just wouldn't have enough piece of mind with a plasma, and would sacrifice black levels etc. personally to have a set where I didn't have to worry about IR. I still have some doubts about going plasma as there's some things I used to do (have ESPN on in the background for hours) that I'll never be comfortable doing on my plasma. But the more I think about it, the more I think it's smarter to just only have a TV on when actively being watched anyway and just play music etc. when working around the house. So I'll likely stick with it since I haven't noticed any IR from my normal usage during the break in period so far.

Will probably play some Borderlands 2 tonight, and will report whether I notice any IR after that.

def let me know, because i played COD and also RPGs that have HUDs. I am thinking next week after 100 hours on my plasma, I should hook up my xbox to my new TV and see how a gaming session goes, then see if i get IR or not, then make a choice about returning the TV or not. My old plasma from samsung (it was a 4254 720p) never got IR at all and I could game on that for 8 hours straight.
post #3958 of 5199
The thing is, as amazing as movies look on a plasma, so do games, plus a plasma is perfect for gaming due to the low response time of 0.01 –0.001 ms.
post #3959 of 5199
Quote:
Originally Posted by davelanger View Post

def let me know, because i played COD and also RPGs that have HUDs. I am thinking next week after 100 hours on my plasma, I should hook up my xbox to my new TV and see how a gaming session goes, then see if i get IR or not, then make a choice about returning the TV or not. My old plasma from samsung (it was a 4254 720p) never got IR at all and I could game on that for 8 hours straight.

I played Borderlands 2 for about three hours straight last night, then watched 30 minutes or so of TV.

No signs of IR while watching TV, nor anything visible on the slides when I put them back up afterward.

Was at 62 hours of slides, plus whatever normal watching, when I started gaming last night.
post #3960 of 5199
When I first got my TV I played Minecraft and Borderlands 2 for a few hours and didn't notice anything afterwards.
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