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Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 155

post #4621 of 5206
The orbiter just shifts the picture up/down/left/right by a few pixels every little while. It can help prevent IR somewhat, but just by moving the image slightly, so if you do get IR it is a little blurry and a little more spread out.

The WoW Pixel Flipper will exercise the pixels very rapidly and help get rid of IR over time.
post #4622 of 5206
Pixel shifter won't do anything for a object that is larder than the high contrast object. For example if you display a 5cm x 5cm pure white square, and leave it on for a few hours, with the the orbiter on. So channels like Euro news with the large white circle will get cause screenburn
post #4623 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda1169 View Post

From what I have read ZTs are very IR resistant but I don't really know because I own a ST50 and not a ZT. Many would argue that the 2012 Pannys are prone to IR but I've been lucky with my panel so far.
All of them prone for burn-in.
post #4624 of 5206
What are PX's like? Panasonic VIERA TXP42X50B
post #4625 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chise View Post

All of them prone for burn-in.
I don't believe any modern plasma panel is prone to burn-in. Most issues people are experiencing are related to stubborn IR.
post #4626 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda1169 View Post

I don't believe any modern plasma panel is prone to burn-in. Most issues people are experiencing are related to stubborn IR.

This is actually pretty inspiring and relieving-provided that is really the case. I am trying to get rid of an image that is retained on my screen and it's been about 12 hours of a scrolling, very white (whiter and brighter than the screen wipe feature from panasonic) and the screen wipe feature. Also i downloaded some pixel flippers from youtube.com. Is any one better than the other? Is the screen wipe/wash feature as effective as say the RGB flippers we see out there? I'm thinking maybe the flippers would do a better job, however i don't see any real improvement, but you are saying that improvement is possible and also very probable?

Thanks for your contributions, btw, i look forward to seeing your posts because they lend a positive outlook on a pretty negative and problematic issue.
post #4627 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuda1169 View Post

I’ve used the WoW pixel flipper to deal with nuisance IR from the History channel logo. It worked great. I’ve also found that I get more IR when my ST50 is just turned on and still cold. This past Saturday I turned the pixel flipper on an hour before I started watching the opening weekend of College football. My panel was good and warmed up before I started abusing it with banner filled programming. This seemed to help with IR quite a bit.

I have to say after reading that last line my lungs did a nice long sigh of relief lol. I think that my issue could be partially from using a "cold" screen. i normally have the tv set to turn off after 10 minutes of no activity. this is because sometimes i fall asleep with the controller in my hands while playing Full House Poker on the xbox. smile.gif next time i'll be more attentive to that, thanks. that actually makes sense
post #4628 of 5206
So ya its all gone now. Just had acute pressure to clear it as my parents were coming for the weekend like, RIGHT after it happened and my dad had only heard how awesome the set was and I really wanted to show it off in a perfect state.

By the time they got here it was really muted and I had to find just the right moment to point it out - but ya by the end of the weekend was really impossible to see and now?

ALL GONE
post #4629 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by praktik View Post

So ya its all gone now. Just had acute pressure to clear it as my parents were coming for the weekend like, RIGHT after it happened and my dad had only heard how awesome the set was and I really wanted to show it off in a perfect state.

By the time they got here it was really muted and I had to find just the right moment to point it out - but ya by the end of the weekend was really impossible to see and now?

ALL GONE

This has been my experience of it as well. No IR left on my display. biggrin.gif

In order to keep it that way, I no longer watch TeeVee on my GT50 and I run the scrolling bar once or twice a week to keep the demons away. LOL!
post #4630 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by praktik View Post

Probably got 12 hours of pixel flipper in...

Can still see it on more mono-colour stretches of where the issue is in the upper right (like an all blue background). Definitely clear when I flip to the panny scrolling bar, the pure white you can make it out still

Still see that "26"!

I'm not overly worried cause I know it was caused by just a few extra hours one morning, so can't be permament - and its ever so slightly fainter...

But was hoping i'd see more improvement after that much pixel flipping!


More tomorrow - all day - and hopefully it'll be mostly on the way out...

This is still in "normal range" of clearing issues like this out right?

So lemme get this straight, the channel was both on during the 2-3K hours every morning you had this tv AND only a couple of hours one morning? I'm confused. Because in your latest post you say it's all gone, well, if that's the case, then awesome, I have nothing to worry about given my couple of weeks playing a game with a static hud. It sounds like yours would have been a lot worse, and if it is all gone using the flipper, then, like I said, no worries here.
Edited by MonicaJae - 9/7/13 at 7:59am
post #4631 of 5206
I'm actually frustrated and kinda surprised that I have any "IR" at all to begin with. I didn't start playing video games on it until after about 1000 hours. Is the disney pixel flipper like having static? If that is the case, I have static dl'd from youtube and will play those. The (hopefully) stubborn IR is still very noticeable, but only by using a white scroll bar for about 15 hours. when i put on the screen wipe, it is very apparent.
post #4632 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonicaJae View Post

So lemme get this straight, the channel was both on during the 2-3K hours every morning you had this tv; or only a couple of hours one morning? I'm confused. Because in your latest post you say it's all gone, well, if that's the case, then awesome, I have nothing to worry about given my couple of weeks playing a game with a static hud. It sounds like yours would have been a lot worse, and if it is all gone using the flipper, then, like I said, no worries here.

Ya bit of a misreading/awkward phrasing

That was total hours on the set, the high number.

CP24, the offending channel, was on most mornings w/o issue.

Just one day it was on longer.

Of course content was much more varied than just our morning habits - but nothing else including gaming and the previous times we watched the same channel had any visible impact.

I only used the flipper a bit on day 1 and 2. It went away just from varied content and time. After 4 was really really hard to see. Now I cant see it at all. I'm sure if I didnt have the WOW disc just normal viewing would have done it.
post #4633 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by MonicaJae View Post

I'm actually frustrated and kinda surprised that I have any "IR" at all to begin with. I didn't start playing video games on it until after about 1000 hours. Is the disney pixel flipper like having static? If that is the case, I have static dl'd from youtube and will play those. The (hopefully) stubborn IR is still very noticeable, but only by using a white scroll bar for about 15 hours. when i put on the screen wipe, it is very apparent.

I think it flashes every color, and does it 24 times a second. Not just black, white, and maybe shades of gray at probably a slower rate.
post #4634 of 5206
I hate to be the "over poster", so to speak, but I have an entirely new issue related to this! It just seems to get worse and worse. I have had the tv on since yesterday afternoon--screen wiping, pixel flipping, normal viewing...i just finished another little stint of screen wiping when I decided that I wanted to watch some TV. So I switch over to the guide, I have xfinity, and on most occasions i get no residual anything--especially after just a couple of seconds--ten at the most. I exited the guide and channel surfed a little and found a show to watch and the picture was of a camera panning some forest from the sky. I was looking intently at the beautiful scenery when I noticed that the xfinity symbol from the guide and almost every aspect of the guide was showing through the picture!!??!! That is a new one on me. That in itself was never a problem. And I know just from reading anywhere that IR is not covered by panasonic, bla bla, but has anybody ever heard of this? Especially since I've had this TV since the beginning of May and have had it on almost nonstop in that time!
post #4635 of 5206
So my IR also had me learning new stuff about my TV - like I could be in the guide and then run the Panasonic scrolling bar right after and see my service provider logo in the top right!

After a few moments goes away. Got me thinking about how this could be happening all the time on the panel without me having noticed it - and how motion and everything just looks SO SOLID with this same behaviour happening....

Figured it was more about me starting to pixel peep so closely, didn't worry about it after - havent really seen it since...
post #4636 of 5206
Yeah, so I'm kinda, just a little bit, freaking out over here... I thought it was getting a little bit better. I don't have the WoW pixel flipper, but I have been using other "flippers" and rgb videos that i've downloaded for about 24 hours straight; now I'm taking another approach and looping music on the xbox with the visualizations on. I like the visualizations because, 1. they are in constant motion 2. are in every possible color there is under the sun and 3. extremely bright.

I still notice the image right there in the front left corner. Here's a pic:



Not sure how definitive this is, but just to give you some perspective this was about 5 days ago. Here is now:



Maybe I should use the same background. I'll try, but hopefully one could get and idea. thanks
post #4637 of 5206
Anyone?


I think I may have Asked this question before actually im sure i have, but I need to know somebody out there has ever had really stubborn image retention that took really long time to get rid of and when I say that like longer than a week or two but it definitely did go away that they can actually report. I would really appreciate info related to experience about this. It seems that most have only spoken of others' problems or kind of vaguely or not very matter of factly. So to beat a dead horse, because I really think these forums' purpose is to address these particulars I'm gonna be annoying and redundant about this issue until I gt some sort of reply. Has anyone, say had a static HUD or image that was obviously visible and have actually gotten rid of it? I have the ST60. I can live with a "yeah I did but it took a month but DID eventually disappear." I need a real description of the IR that was present.
Please.

And if my pics aren't good enough it's really a function of my camera an not, IMO an over reaction. And so what if it was? I've read other posts that repeat to get a functional answer.
TIA
post #4638 of 5206
In my experience screen and uneven wear can take months, from my Pioneer 5090 uneven 4:3 border wear that took 6 months of normal use, same again for an earlier gen Pioneer with BBC news white border burn in, still noticeable after months but much less, to the point of not being visible unless you really look for it.
post #4639 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatbottom View Post

In my experience screen and uneven wear can take months, from my Pioneer 5090 uneven 4:3 border wear that took 6 months of normal use, same again for an earlier gen Pioneer with BBC news white border burn in, still noticeable after months but much less, to the point of not being visible unless you really look for it.

fatbottom, thanks for that reply; it helps more than you know. After about 10 hours of the xbox music visualization, which i would have run anyway, i think there is maybe some slight fade. it looks like it could be really affective. there isn't any bad result from it anyway and i run all the other videos too. won't be sure for a little while, which it obviously could be. but at least there's the happy chance that it will go away, and i think i'm starting to trust this whole "panels have gotten better in the last couple of years thing. i just am such a noob at this. even though i researched the heck out of it. of course some could never anticipate something they've never been through.

Just curious. does burn in fade at all or is it a pretty consistent full time thing? is that what seperates it from IR? If thati's the case, then i think i may definitely have IR. (yay) REEEEal reeeal stubborn though. of course i wouldn't know until I know. I'm avoiding looking for it now, although sometimes i catch myself stealing a peek. there wouldn't be much i could do about it anyway right? Thanks again smile.gif

grr i spoke too soon there it is oi
post #4640 of 5206
Just an update for my ST60, but I've been running the Pixel Flipper nearly 24/7 for about 2.5 weeks now and the FOX Sports Rangers logo on my set has in fact dissolved some. It is still noticeable on very light screens, but there is no doubt it has lifted somewhat. However, for about a week now it hasn't improved, so I think I've done all I can do to improve it. This all stemming from watching a 3 hour baseball game including commercial breaks, with a resulting logo IR that has been persistent for over 6 weeks now (including the 2.5 weeks of Pixel Flipper).

I had to buy a DVD player from Fry's to loop the Pixel Flipper since my Sony just turns it off after 10 minutes, thinking it is inactive. I have to return the DVD player next week so this is probably as good as it will get.

Still going to continue my rant, don't ever buy plasmas. They are totally not worth the high maintenance. And god knows how much higher my electricity bill has been the last 2.5 weeks...
post #4641 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

Just an update for my ST60, but I've been running the Pixel Flipper nearly 24/7 for about 2.5 weeks now and the FOX Sports Rangers logo on my set has in fact dissolved some. It is still noticeable on very light screens, but there is no doubt it has lifted somewhat. However, for about a week now it hasn't improved, so I think I've done all I can do to improve it. This all stemming from watching a 3 hour baseball game including commercial breaks, with a resulting logo IR that has been persistent for over 6 weeks now (including the 2.5 weeks of Pixel Flipper).

I had to buy a DVD player from Fry's to loop the Pixel Flipper since my Sony just turns it off after 10 minutes, thinking it is inactive. I have to return the DVD player next week so this is probably as good as it will get.

Still going to continue my rant, don't ever buy plasmas. They are totally not worth the high maintenance. And god knows how much higher my electricity bill has been the last 2.5 weeks...

If you are smart enough, you can still minimize it, using Pixel Jogger with max. contrast and min. brightness, disable all smoothers/pic. enhancers, in continuous loop from at least 24+ hrs till few days.
Pixel flipper is not efficient enough as it's using random pixel flickering.
As an electronics engineer I did my research and made Pixel Jogger as the most effective tool/video for IR washing/prevention as well as PQ/pixels enhancer/conditioner.
I videogamed with static hud/info on screen for many thousand hours, with sessions of between 8 hrs - 16hrs, never had persistent IR, any visible IR from longtime static hud/info/logo dissappear in few seconds when switching screen/using scroll bar/Pixel Jogger.

You don't need to fully erase the IR, it will sooner or later dissappear, if you take the preventions:
My regiment is 5 min. Pixel Jogger at start up/warming up the tv, every hour 1 min. Pixel Jogger break, intermittent luchbreaks of 20min. with PixelJogger on and before shutdown the tv, a few min. Pixel Jogger and pausing at the white screen to check for IR.
Thats All.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4442
Edited by iBrad - 9/10/13 at 1:01pm
post #4642 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuffluck View Post

Just an update for my ST60, but I've been running the Pixel Flipper nearly 24/7 for about 2.5 weeks now and the FOX Sports Rangers logo on my set has in fact dissolved some. It is still noticeable on very light screens, but there is no doubt it has lifted somewhat. However, for about a week now it hasn't improved, so I think I've done all I can do to improve it. This all stemming from watching a 3 hour baseball game including commercial breaks, with a resulting logo IR that has been persistent for over 6 weeks now (including the 2.5 weeks of Pixel Flipper).

I had to buy a DVD player from Fry's to loop the Pixel Flipper since my Sony just turns it off after 10 minutes, thinking it is inactive. I have to return the DVD player next week so this is probably as good as it will get.

Still going to continue my rant, don't ever buy plasmas. They are totally not worth the high maintenance. And god knows how much higher my electricity bill has been the last 2.5 weeks...

You still don't want to try the "reverse image" idea that I presented?

I can help create the slides for you, but I need that FOX Sports Rangers logo (in the exact position where it is on your television, no less). Maybe we can make it happen. In theory, that should help it quite a bit.
post #4643 of 5206
The way I have pretty much avoided anything other than slight IR just a couple times on my ST60 that fades pretty quickly, is simply running the contrast really low if there are static images. And then if i remember before I go to bed I just put the tv on a 90 minute time and let the screen wipe run.

Sure the picture isn't quite optimal and I understand the "I SHOULDN'T HAVE TO DO THIS" but it saves me the headache of the chance of developing IR. My wife and I played Lego Lord of the Rings for about 2.5-3 hours this weekend. Tons of static images/huds all over the screen, biggest test I've had and I had no IR whatsoever. Still that night, just to be safe, ran screen wipe as I went to bed for 90 minutes.

I basically have 3 settings I use.

Home Theater: This is my movie/no static images setting : Contrast at about 77-80 with various other settings slightly tweaked.
Cinema: When there is a show I care about such as Sons of Anarchy or Breaking Bad but it still has a station logo. Contrast at 60. Other settings tweaked.
Custom: When we aren't watching anything in particular and are on bad logo stations (history, discovery, ID, E!, etc.) or sports I use this. Contrast at 35-40. I use custom cause it allows me to tweak more settings since I'm lowering the contrast so much.

I've followed those settings since I've had the tv and results concerning IR have been really, really good. I'm probably OVER doing it with the contrast that low but it gives me peace of mind.

If anything for the ST60 I'm starting to notice line bleed much more. Wish certain settings could help eliminate that.

At times I feel I should have gotten an LCD but I keep remembering the clouding and poor off angle viewing of them and then I watch a movie off angle on my plasma and it looks amazing and my faith is restored. Its just a trade off. Pick your poison. Just be proactive in minimizing your chances or IR and don't go looking for it. Its just the nature of the beast with plasma. At least for IR we can do steps in order to minimize/prevent/remedy the issues.

Rambling over smile.gif
post #4644 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post

You still don't want to try the "reverse image" idea that I presented?

I can help create the slides for you, but I need that FOX Sports Rangers logo (in the exact position where it is on your television, no less). Maybe we can make it happen. In theory, that should help it quite a bit.

At this point probably not, I mean it's definitely diminishing, so hopefully that means it will at some point in time go away (after all burn-in wouldn't diminish at all as I understand it). We'll see though, and maybe you and I can try this down the road. Thanks for the help either way.
post #4645 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBrad View Post

If you are smart enough, you can still minimize it, using Pixel Jogger with max. contrast and min. brightness, disable all smoothers/pic. enhancers, in continuous loop from at least 24+ hrs till few days.
Pixel flipper is not efficient enough as it's using random pixel flickering.
As an electronics engineer I did my research and made Pixel Jogger as the most effective tool/video for IR washing/prevention as well as PQ/pixels enhancer/conditioner.
I videogamed with static hud/info on screen for many thousand hours, with sessions of between 8 hrs - 16hrs, never had persistent IR, any visible IR from longtime static hud/info/logo dissappear in few seconds when switching screen/using scroll bar/Pixel Jogger.

You don't need to fully erase the IR, it will sooner or later dissappear, if you take the preventions:
My regiment is 5 min. Pixel Jogger at start up/warming up the tv, every hour 1 min. Pixel Jogger break, intermittent luchbreaks of 20min. with PixelJogger on and before shutdown the tv, a few min. Pixel Jogger and pausing at the white screen to check for IR.
Thats All.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/949107/master-burn-in-ir-break-in-thread-part-ii-all-posts-here-only/4442

I downloaded and ran that for a while yesterday just to mix things up in hopes it would help with the IR I have on my Panasonic 60ST60. I'm a little worried about it causing seizures though smile.gif. I, too, have the Fox Sport logo in the upper right of my screen (Marlins in my case). I'm really annoyed with Fox Sports right now, their logo is terrible for IR. Even my Kuro 5020FD gets a little IR from it. I've been running the screen wipe, pixel flipper, and various IR removal videos from YouTube for probably 200-300 hours (without watching another game on the ST60) since I noticed the IR. It's diminished significantly, but it still noticeable on a bright white screen.
post #4646 of 5206
That fox sports logo is causing problems on multiple models sadlly, add VT50 and VT60 to the list. As far as the pixel jogger above it may reduce IR but any other claims have been debunked.
post #4647 of 5206
I'm sorry to ask but is this the Fox Sports logo that is in the upper right corner during NFL games as well? I've only got about 150 hours on my 50s60 and with the NFL this weekend, I want to be able to watch the games on Fox with limited worry if possible.

For what it's worth, I have the WOW disc.

Thanks.
post #4648 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by sublimerocks86 View Post

I'm sorry to ask but is this the Fox Sports logo that is in the upper right corner during NFL games as well? I've only got about 150 hours on my 50s60 and with the NFL this weekend, I want to be able to watch the games on Fox with limited worry if possible.

For what it's worth, I have the WOW disc.

Thanks.

Probably, I haven't watched a football game on Fox Sports. I think they may have changed the logo sometime recently, I haven't really paid attention to it before. I don't think it would've been a problem if I had run the pixel flipper overnight every week, but I went a few months watching a 3 hour game almost every day. I varied my content with another 4 or so hours of other content between games, but apparently that wasn't enough to negate the Fox Sports logo.
post #4649 of 5206
I had my heart set on getting a plasma for all the usual reasons, but I watch a particular news channel several hours a day that features a white bar with a logo at the top of the screen and sometimes a ticker at the bottom. I also watch sports on channels with logos and score boxes. I'm just not prepared to have to deal with burn-in, IR, or any other variation of this problem. Too bad.
post #4650 of 5206
Quote:
Originally Posted by smeg36 View Post

Probably, I haven't watched a football game on Fox Sports. I think they may have changed the logo sometime recently, I haven't really paid attention to it before. I don't think it would've been a problem if I had run the pixel flipper overnight every week, but I went a few months watching a 3 hour game almost every day. I varied my content with another 4 or so hours of other content between games, but apparently that wasn't enough to negate the Fox Sports logo.
If it is already fading, it will likely fade entirely over time.
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