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Master Burn-In/IR/Break In Thread Part II: All Posts Here Only - Page 168

post #5011 of 5198
IR can be reversed BI cannot.

IR/BI can vary in magnitude. More sever IR requires more time to reverse, more severe BI is more noticeable.
post #5012 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by 9179mhb View Post

IR can be reversed BI cannot.

IR/BI can vary in magnitude. More sever IR requires more time to reverse, more severe BI is more noticeable.
Yeah, but you can't really tell if it is burn in until it doesn't go away. So everything can technically be considered burn-in from the start until proven it is not. And then even if it is still there maybe enough time just wasn't spent on removing it.

It is kind of like buying an open box TV that has the ESPN logo on it. Is it Bi, is it IR? There is absolutely no way to tell. You won't even be able to tell within a 30 day window. It can take 6 months, a year, maybe even 2 years to get completely rid of it. Maybe it will never go away. There really is no way to tell the difference was really my point unless BI has been proven to never fade at all with any treatment and will stay at the same exact brightness from day one to year 5.
post #5013 of 5198
From a purely technical perspective, the difference is the mechanism that causes the artifact.

IR is caused by a buildup of Magnesium Oxide in the affected cells that changes the light output of the phosphors. Over time, those buildups go away and the output returns to normal.

BI is caused by uneven wearing of the phosphors. That cannot dissipate in time since the wear will always be uneven from that point out.

Now, the problem is, it's next to impossible to tell from viewing the set which is which. However, I would imagine that most plasmas are at least as resistant to burn in as CRTs have been which means it takes a lot of abuse to make it permanent. Bad IR though, may take a month or 3 to go away fully so it's really hard to tell in a typical return time-frame if it's IR or BI.
Edited by bull3964 - 1/31/14 at 10:47am
post #5014 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris NYC View Post

I uploaded a new version with fixes for most of your items. I cannot fix the borders at the bottom of the screen on the Mac as that's built into the OS. I advise people on Macs to be wary of that and zoom in to avoid that causing issues.

I am still working on the fast version but it will be a while before anything comes out of it.

CleanScreen

Hey Chris, the screen still doesn't look bright enough. I'm wondering if it has to do with the laptop. When I press the menu button on the TV, the part that isn't covered by the menu screen becomes significantly brighter. Interesting... Maybe too many pixels working at the same time? Do you have this issue? Thanks
post #5015 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by marky12 View Post

Hey Chris, the screen still doesn't look bright enough. I'm wondering if it has to do with the laptop. When I press the menu button on the TV, the part that isn't covered by the menu screen becomes significantly brighter. Interesting... Maybe too many pixels working at the same time? Do you have this issue? Thanks

I see that as a problem with plasma in general. For instance, if I open Textedit as a window the white background is nice and white. When I maximize it the gets dull and grey. I think it has to do with power and is what you hear about when people complain that hockey games look dull on plasmas.

My pixel flipper looks the same as WoWs on my set so I chalk it up to the TV.
post #5016 of 5198
Correct, that's ABL (automatic brightness limiting) circuitry. It seems plasmas of years past were not as heavily afflicted by it in comparison to newer models (with the exception of the F8500).
post #5017 of 5198
My apologies if this has been discussed before (did a search but couldn't find anything related)... I'm trying to run the Disney WOW pixel flipper on a VT30 but am having trouble starting it.

So I navigate to the pixel flipper option, chose it, get the text describing the flipper and how long it might take to work and prompting me to press Enter to start the flipper. I press Enter; the screen goes black and is then stuck. Nothing happens. Only once did I reach that point and saw a message in green letters that says "1080 p downloading" or something like that and then the flipper started shortly after. I've never been able to duplicate that. I always reach that black screen and after several minutes of waiting I just give up and turn everything off. I'm running the disc on an OPPO 93 if it makes a difference. Any help is appreciated.
post #5018 of 5198
I am trying to run an all white slide on my 60ST30 and I keep getting the VIERA logo appearing and disappearing around the screen. How do I disable this? I ran the white slide a few weeks ago and it was fine. I can figure this out.
post #5019 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

I am trying to run an all white slide on my 60ST30 and I keep getting the VIERA logo appearing and disappearing around the screen. How do I disable this? I ran the white slide a few weeks ago and it was fine. I can figure this out.

Logo IR or the actual logo ?

Check screensaver settings.
post #5020 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris NYC View Post

I see that as a problem with plasma in general. For instance, if I open Textedit as a window the white background is nice and white. When I maximize it the gets dull and grey. I think it has to do with power and is what you hear about when people complain that hockey games look dull on plasmas.

My pixel flipper looks the same as WoWs on my set so I chalk it up to the TV.

Hey Chris,

Just a thought... If you make a half screen pixel flipper that scrolls though the screen, that may enable the screen to run brighter. Kind of like the the screen wipe but with the pixel flipper. Let me know you think...
post #5021 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by marky12 View Post

Hey Chris,

Just a thought... If you make a half screen pixel flipper that scrolls though the screen, that may enable the screen to run brighter. Kind of like the the screen wipe but with the pixel flipper. Let me know you think...

That's actually a really good idea. I've been so wrapped up in emulating WoW that I missed the point. WoW's pixel flipper is meant to kick stuck pixels and as an after effect it cleans up IR. A moving bar might do better to reduce IR than full screen, plus it will move a lot faster.

I'll code up a quick version tonight and try it out. Thanks!
post #5022 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris NYC View Post


That's actually a really good idea. I've been so wrapped up in emulating WoW that I missed the point. WoW's pixel flipper is meant to kick stuck pixels and as an after effect it cleans up IR. A moving bar might do better to reduce IR than full screen, plus it will move a lot faster.

I'll code up a quick version tonight and try it out. Thanks!

Cool, let me know when you have it working. Thanks

post #5023 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceberg86300 View Post

Logo IR or the actual logo ?

Check screensaver settings.

The Logo itself being displayed by the TV. I will check screensaver settings. I don't remember having to do this before.
post #5024 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by cpc View Post

The Logo itself being displayed by the TV. I will check screensaver settings. I don't remember having to do this before.

To tell you the truth not very up on Samsung products, but I have seen this behavior before in other places. My Panasonic lcd will start doing weird stuff if a static signal is fed for too long, or if there is no input from the user for a period of time as well. I would think a plasma would just shut off.

In fact that is what my TV does. Do you lose the slide and then the logo comes on?

Look for anything that has to do with a screensaver, power savings, or showroom. If left idle for any decent amount of time these are generally the things that will kick in on any TV. Should be able to set each one to what you like. If there is a showroom option turn that of completely, although on a new TV I don't know why that would be on anyway.

When I first St up the Panasonic it kept turning off every 4 hours. Manual was built into the TV while I was trying to find info in the paper manual. Took me about 20 minutes going through the menus to find the "turn of after X time of inactivity " setting. Of course it was the last place I looked LOL.
post #5025 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by marky12 View Post

Cool, let me know when you have it working. Thanks

Running it now on my set to see if it can get the last bit of IR off:

IR Scrubber
post #5026 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris NYC View Post


Running it now on my set to see if it can get the last bit of IR off:

IR Scrubber

Do you think it will benefit with a bigger bar or a second bar?

post #5027 of 5198
Maybe a bigger bar and speed option smile.gif

Nice job!
post #5028 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris NYC View Post

Running it now on my set to see if it can get the last bit of IR off:

IR Scrubber

Also, the black screen doesn't seem to be completely black. There's pixels in dark green dancing around.
post #5029 of 5198
Thanks guys. I can add an option to size the bar and set the speed.

I don't see green pixels or know why that would be. Looking at it under a zoomer on my LCD notebook I don't see that. Not in from of my TV now but I can check. Maybe it's the effect where when you get close to a plasma you see dancing "snow"?
post #5030 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris NYC View Post

Thanks guys. I can add an option to size the bar and set the speed.

I don't see green pixels or know why that would be. Looking at it under a zoomer on my LCD notebook I don't see that. Not in from of my TV now but I can check. Maybe it's the effect where when you get close to a plasma you see dancing "snow"?

It's not on my laptop but when it is on full screen on the plasma,it has that effect. The pixels are blinking in different areas though so I don't think it's snow. Maybe it's the cable I'm using. Also the pixels are moving so fast now that I'm wondering if they cycle through when it pans across the screen.

Did you get good results with the IR you got?
post #5031 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris NYC View Post

Thanks guys. I can add an option to size the bar and set the speed.

I don't see green pixels or know why that would be. Looking at it under a zoomer on my LCD notebook I don't see that. Not in from of my TV now but I can check. Maybe it's the effect where when you get close to a plasma you see dancing "snow"?

I think I figured it out, it has to do with the brightness of the panel. Try using vivid and turn the brightness up. I think it's default at 12 and that should show the effect I talking about. You have to turn the lights off though.
post #5032 of 5198
Nevermind....
post #5033 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by marky12 View Post

I think I figured it out, it has to do with the brightness of the panel. Try using vivid and turn the brightness up. I think it's default at 12 and that should show the effect I talking about. You have to turn the lights off though.

Very strange. I generally run these things in the default "Home Theatre" mode of my ST60. Vivid gets the TV too hot and I don't like running it long. I didn't run it long enough to get much results. I have the faint outline of a HUD still on my screen which has been brutal to get out. I am sure it will go away completely over time just waiting.

I'l try and add those features tonight if I can.
post #5034 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris NYC View Post

Very strange. I generally run these things in the default "Home Theatre" mode of my ST60. Vivid gets the TV too hot and I don't like running it long. I didn't run it long enough to get much results. I have the faint outline of a HUD still on my screen which has been brutal to get out. I am sure it will go away completely over time just waiting.

I'l try and add those features tonight if I can.

Generally I run it for about half and hour to 1 hour in vivid. I think it should be OK since the panel limits light output anyway.

Just to give you an idea of what your dealing with. I have a very faint IR of the USA logo that tool 200-300hrs to get rid of. I haven't been paying attention to it so not sure if it's still there. My contrast is at 70 and with that, most static logos are OK. The reason i think the USA logo got stuck is because of the white to dark contrast from my wife watching law and order.
post #5035 of 5198
Just checked, ir is still there...
post #5036 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by marky12 View Post

Just checked, ir is still there...

Try the Disney WoW pixel flipper, it works wonders. You may have to run it several days for bad IR. I run my weekly overnight anywhere from 10-20hrs as a precaution. It works great on nuisance IR
post #5037 of 5198
You know, plasma manufacturers should have come up with a way to combat network bug IR. It wouldn't be too terribly hard either.

Just look for a static image for successive frames and then apply a blur effect to it using the surrounding non-static pixels as reference points. Basically, a localized version of the blur censor effect they use to black out brands and such. The result wouldn't be any more intrusive than the original network bug and it would have at least kept some of the more hard edged and high contrast bugs in check.

By the same token, they could have done something better for 4:3 bars. It wouldn't be hard to do sort of a blur extension on the normal image into those areas. You see it all the time on news programs where 4:3 content is adapted for widescreen. You would then have a bar area that would blend in better with the content on the screen and not be left with a hard line between the 4:3 area and 16:9 area.
post #5038 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by bull3964 View Post

You know, plasma manufacturers should have come up with a way to combat network bug IR. It wouldn't be too terribly hard either.

Just look for a static image for successive frames and then apply a blur effect to it using the surrounding non-static pixels as reference points. Basically, a localized version of the blur censor effect they use to black out brands and such. The result wouldn't be any more intrusive than the original network bug and it would have at least kept some of the more hard edged and high contrast bugs in check.

By the same token, they could have done something better for 4:3 bars. It wouldn't be hard to do sort of a blur extension on the normal image into those areas. You see it all the time on news programs where 4:3 content is adapted for widescreen. You would then have a bar area that would blend in better with the content on the screen and not be left with a hard line between the 4:3 area and 16:9 area.

I was thinking TVs should have a 3x6 inch screen on the bottom of the TV that shows network logos and scoreboards. That way we don't have to worry about burn in.
post #5039 of 5198
Olympic logo is nasty...
post #5040 of 5198
Quote:
Originally Posted by elmorage View Post

Olympic logo is nasty...
Yep, I was hoping for their normal transparent logo but not surprised they went full color and bold. Luckily we're not big fans of the Winter Olympics so we won't be watching it much. It's gonna be a doozy though for those that have it on for hours.
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